Epic Vestiges

[Bad Wolf]

Can anyone find the binding DC for the epic vestiges?

[DrMartin]

they were never published as far as I know - if they were forgotten or if they meant for epic vestiges to always affect a binder with their influence is a matter of speculation.

If you want to define them yourself, you could go about it basing them on the skill requirement to get the appropriate feat - maybe something like ranks required +25? that would be for instance a DC of 50 for Gaia - so a 23rd level binder with a +10 charisma bonus and (non-epic) skilled pact making would have to roll a 13 to succeed.

fixed numbers like these can be made totally obsolete by the optimization level of your table, but that is already true at pre-epic

[dysprosium]

IIRC the epic vestiges were gained with taking epic feats. And by taking the appropriate feat you get to bind them.

You can't even bind them without taking the epic feats.

[DrMartin]

IIRC the epic vestiges were gained with taking epic feats. And by taking the appropriate feat you get to bind them.

You can't even bind them without taking the epic feats.

true, but pre-epic vestiges have a binding DC, used to determine if you make a good or a bad pact. The Epic Vestiges in Dragon Feature lack this DC, and the OP was asking about it

[dysprosium]

That was my point.

There is no binding DC for epic vestiges because you need to take a feat to even know of their existence. Once the feat is taken then the epic vestige can be bound with no need for a roll.

There are no bad pacts with epic vestiges nor can you avoid their influence.

[DrMartin]

well that is reasonable - but of course it would be better, or maybe just clearer, if that was stated somewhere. A couple of lines stating this difference, that epic vestiges are so powerful that you just cannot avoid their influence or something like that.

My opinion is that they planned to keep the same formatting as the tome of magic - where the binding DC is written in that grey "stone slab" kind of thing, along with the vestige symbol...and then lost the graphics during the layout process.

[Chronos]

There are no bad pacts with epic vestiges nor can you avoid their influence.
You contradict yourself, there. I think what you mean to say is that there are no good pacts with epic vestiges.

And I'm not sure how that's supposed to be connected to the fact that you need to take a feat to bind them.

[Quirp]

I'm not too sure about the original source, but in this thread
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?208231-Binder-Advice-Vestige-List&p=11465287#post11465287
DCs for binding the epic vestiges were shown.

[Bad Wolf]

I'm not too sure about the original source, but in this thread
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?208231-Binder-Advice-Vestige-List&p=11465287#post11465287
DCs for binding the epic vestiges were shown.

Okay, thanks.

[DrMartin]

I'm not too sure about the original source, but in this thread
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?208231-Binder-Advice-Vestige-List&p=11465287#post11465287
DCs for binding the epic vestiges were shown.

nice find!

i followed the link you posted and the source of the DCs is the author of the original article:

http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1102006?page=8 , post #341