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Mattarias, King.
2007-05-15, 08:02 PM
Eheh, as the title impliers, I'm looking for some help on my build. I've been playing a half-elven bard for three levels so far, but I'm getting sick of being a support character, so I decided to persue the path of gishery. Specifically the kind of gishery that involves tossing a fireball or orb of fire or something at the BBEG, then jumping through the smoke, sword drawn, laughing my head off as I push him backward, suprised that he's being assaulted by the 'bard'. Any suggestions? I'm about to level up -extremely- soon.

My idea is Bard 3/ Warmage 4/ Heartfre Fanner 5/ Elemental savant X, and take lots of metamagic feats, specifically fiery spell, scorching spell, empower, maximize, all those goodies, since HFF decreases metamagic costs.

Though this seems to foucus too much on spellcasting.. -Why warmage, though? Because they rock royally. :smallbiggrin: Blowing stuff up for the win!

Uhm, as I said, though, any suggestions would be gratefully accepted. Thank ye.

Arbitrarity
2007-05-15, 08:04 PM
Sublime chord is full of win, albeit broken win.

Mattarias, King.
2007-05-15, 08:10 PM
Sublime chord is full of win, albeit broken win.

Eh, I've considered it, but I won't meet the prerqs for a while, and thus it would be more nerfage than anything else for me. :smallfrown:

Person_Man
2007-05-15, 08:23 PM
Multi-classing into another caster class is a horrible idea, especially if you multi-class into a Warmage, the weakest of all casters. Think it through: When you're a Bard 3/ Warmage 4, you'll be casting 2nd level spells, and your friends will be casting 4th level spells. You'll suck even worse then you do now.

You have several decent options available to you:

1) Buy the Spell Compendium. It adds a tremendous amount of depth to the Bard's spell list.

2) Embrace your role as a support class. Bard 3/Marshal 4/Whatever X makes for an excellent Diplomat and a decent Trip build, for example.

3) Take Sublime Chord: This basically just gives you regular spellcaster progression. Not at all broken, in my opinion.

4) Accept that you're a Half-Elf Bard, and that you should have known you would never be powerful from the get go. Just be a Bard and enjoy it.

ocato
2007-05-15, 08:25 PM
Wands, young one.

PinkysBrain
2007-05-15, 08:35 PM
Why warmage, though? Because they rock royally. :smallbiggrin: Blowing stuff up for the win!
Yes they blow stuff up, no they aren't gish. They are the worst arcane class for gishes bar none. That's not taking into account that you are multiclassing between two caster classes in a way which leaves you with both spells and BAB too weak to do what you want to do.

A bard is a gish in a box, you can still cast in armor and at least you have 3/4 BAB ... stay with the bard and if you really want to cast a fireball use UMD.

Mattarias, King.
2007-05-15, 08:36 PM
hm, you sure there aren't any PrCs or something that'll help, then? I appreciate all the suggestions, but I'm afraid SC is out, and giving up or just using wands is kinda out of the question. My character's all about 'power from within' (hence no divine progression either), so I'd really prefer to avoid relying on UMD...

And besides, I have a legacy weapon. I don't wanna waste it. It speaks to me..

PinkysBrain
2007-05-15, 08:51 PM
How about asking your DM to let you found your own legacy for the weapon past 5th level? A legacy item can give you spell like abilities, it's not entirely from within ... but the bond with a legacy weapon is a little different from one with a throw away wand.

Also ... books?

TheThan
2007-05-15, 09:13 PM
My advice:
Since you’re already going down the path I’d just stick with straight bard, just concentrate on self buff spells, like cat’s grace, rage, haste. Might want to pick up extend spell or some other metamagic feat (well, ok the spontaneous caster ones in complete arcane) to make your spells that much better. I’d also work on getting some wands like a wand of fireball, or magic missile, whatever floats your boat on that account.
Also don’t forget to get yourself geared out. You’ll want to increase your melee combat with stuff like a belt of ogre’s strength, a scabbard of keen edges, a ring of regeneration, ring of shooting stars, etc.

Eventually you’ll probably qualify for the spellsword prc in complete warrior. That’ll solve most of your other problems.

A Gray Phantom
2007-05-15, 09:18 PM
Though it is a ways away, I get the feeling you'd like Seeker of the Song. Also, the Virtuoso prestige class is also really cool.

Why is virtuoso cool?

You play a song that changes npc attitudes towards you. If you have a chaotic alignment, you can essentially become a revolutionary, going from city to city and causing hundred, thousands, maybe even millions of people to become completely and utterly devoted unto you (with no will save involved). I have a virtuoso I play from time to time. I call his virtuoso performance "Song of the Revolution!" - Totally sweet :biggrin:!!

Person Man is right, embrace the fact that you are a bard. You are much stronger than you think you are. Let me give you an example:

An acquaintance of mine once started to put down bards. I defended my chosen class, saying it is the most powerful one:

"C'mon! How can you defend such a weak class? Do you honestly believe you could defeat our party's half-orc cleric?"
"Yes, yes I can."
"Okay, fine, the two of you get into a fight at a bar, and things get violent. You win the initiative, what do you do?"

":amused: I have maxed-out ranks in craft trapmaking. I'm also smarter. If we are in a fight at a bar, it is because I chose for us to fight there. Therefore, I set off the trap that incinerates the entire bar, with everyone in it, while I make my escape."

":smallannoyed: You can't use traps."

":confused: Okay, then I'm disguised ahead of time as an innocent human child. The drunken bar patrons step up to defend me, and since our cleric is good aligned, he won't kill an innocent."

":smallmad: You can't use disguises."

":yuk: Fine! Then I have the whole lot of them hypnotized by my song, then they jump up and defend me."

":smallfurious: You can't hypnotize anyone!"

":cool: Fine, you win. Sine I'm not allowed to use any of my class features or abilities, the half-orc cleric beats me."

":smallbiggrin: Der, I sure learned you a thing or three..."

See my point? Being a bard isn't about blowing up the BBEG with fireballs, it's about style. Embrace the power that is in your song, and earn yourself a chapter in the book of fame and legacy!

Mattarias, King.
2007-05-15, 09:27 PM
Oh, sorry, my folly. ^^; Books allowed are:

core, Comp. Arc/Scou/Adv/ champ(maybe), Sandstorm, PHBII, and.. I believe that's it.

I'm definitely thinking of tricking myself out when I aquire the monetary backing, yet my DM has already decided on Mononoke's abilities. I hear they might be sonic-based. which makes sense, since it's a bardic blade..

edit: also, phantom, that was ten kinds of awesome, I must admit. :smallbiggrin: .. yet the campaign is a bit more hack n' slash than I expected it to be, so NPC interaction is going to be a bit of a problem. especially due to the barbarian in my party. :smalleek:

ocato
2007-05-15, 09:30 PM
Hell, I'd just try to homebrew the Song of Cosmic Fire into a feat and call it a day.

Everyman
2007-05-15, 09:40 PM
There is a PrC in Complete Mage called Lyric Thaumaturge that is EXACTLY what you need. In a nutshell, it sets you up to do the following:
* Use the Perform skill for Concentration checks
* Add Sorcerer/Wizard spells to your spells known
* Do stuff with your existing spells (can't remember what)
* Make all the NPCs go "A-WHAT?"
* Profit!

I wouldn't call the class "All that and a bag o' mutton", but it works for what you want to achieve.

TheThan
2007-05-15, 09:47 PM
There is a PrC in Complete Mage called Lyric Thaumaturge that is EXACTLY what you need. In a nutshell, it sets you up to do the following:
* Use the Perform skill for Concentration checks
* Add Sorcerer/Wizard spells to your spells known
* Do stuff with your existing spells (can't remember what)
* Make all the NPCs go "A-WHAT?"
* Profit!

I wouldn't call the class "All that and a bag o' mutton", but it works for what you want to achieve.

Nice, very very nice!

Mattarias, King.
2007-05-15, 09:48 PM
Hmm, I -like- that song of cosmic fire idea, though I doubt it'll fly well.

Lyric Thaumatheurge seems alright. I doubt if my DM'll allow complete mage, but I'll look into it.

Virtuoso and SoTS are both kinda iffy, since I kinda like my spells.. Though i do like Burning Melody..

ClericofPhwarrr
2007-05-15, 09:59 PM
Lyric Thaumatheurge seems alright. I doubt if my DM'll allow complete mage, but I'll look into it.

If you remind him that you're a bard, it might help things. :smallamused:

I'd feel a little bad as DM about denying an unoptimized bard's request...

Mattarias, King.
2007-05-15, 10:03 PM
Well, she (my DM) is already trying to help me not suck. I can use burning hands, but it's kinda pointless after my two 1st level spell slots are used up..

ocato
2007-05-15, 11:07 PM
You cast inspirational boost and you like it. *menaces*

turtleant120
2007-05-16, 12:33 AM
PVP stuff

I'm sorry to bust your bubble, but none of those plans make any sense. All three of them were you saying you did something ahead of time when it sounds like you're DM said "you got angry and started fighting, go."

Merlin the Tuna
2007-05-16, 12:37 AM
You have several decent options available to you:

1) Buy the Spell Compendium. It adds a tremendous amount of depth to the Bard's spell list.

2) Embrace your role as a support class. Bard 3/Marshal 4/Whatever X makes for an excellent Diplomat and a decent Trip build, for example.

3) Take Sublime Chord: This basically just gives you regular spellcaster progression. Not at all broken, in my opinion.

4) Accept that you're a Half-Elf Bard, and that you should have known you would never be powerful from the get go. Just be a Bard and enjoy it.You missed number five, which is "Accept that you're a Half-Elf Bard, and that you should have known you would never be powerful from the get go. Since you wish to play a character that quite clearly is not the one you're not already playing, arrange for the bard to make an exit and a new guy to make an entrance."

It's typically a last resort, but it should definitely be on the table.

Jack Mann
2007-05-16, 01:17 AM
Well, she (my DM) is already trying to help me not suck. I can use burning hands, but it's kinda pointless after my two 1st level spell slots are used up..

Well, of course it's pointless. It's burning hands. It's a crap spell, just like fireball, magic missile, and similar damage spells. Taking spells like that will only make you weaker, not stronger.

A Gray Phantom
2007-05-16, 03:01 AM
I'm sorry to bust your bubble, but none of those plans make any sense. All three of them were you saying you did something ahead of time when it sounds like you're DM said "you got angry and started fighting, go."

Allow me to put it in perspective. I was playing a chaotic evil Kobold bard with maxed out ranks in craft (trapmaking). My friend was giving me a hard time about playing a weak creature in a weak class. I stepped up and defended my character.

I was trying to put things in perspective. As a super smart evil character, I would never allow things to spill out beyond my control. If I were to end up battling someone, then it would be because I willed it to (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=031018).

Okay, let's say, in the super-unlikely instance, that I didn't have something prepared ahead of time. Same scenario: We're in a bar, he picks a fight, and I'm forced to do battle. I still maintain I have the homefield advantage due to my high charisma. I will still be defended by the drunken bar patrons long enough to make my escape. Then, while everyone is distracted, I burn down the tavern and kill everyone inside.

I normally don't play evil characters, as I find it rather challenging to maintain both my alignment and a thriving sense of teamwork. This particular character, however, I decided to base arounnd Belkar. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0439.html)

Ooh, I have fond memories of that bard. He was built so that he could sneak into any city and begin messing with the minds of the residents. The perfect anarchist, within days he could cause everyone to go insane and start killing one another. Then, the nearby tribe of Kobolds moves in and takes care of the rest :smallbiggrin:.

I thought it was clever...

Rad
2007-05-16, 03:45 AM
The d20 system punishes very very hard those who try to be good at two things. From what you're saying it looks to me that you should have been a Duskblade, since the group buffing and diplomacy seem not to appeal too much to you. I would advice you to switch characters or to go through some very heavy retraining (if your DM is that generous).

Closet_Skeleton
2007-05-16, 04:08 AM
Savage Species has a number of cool Bard spells including Sonic Ball, which is fireball but deals Sonic Damage. It's a bit useless since you don't get 3rd level spells until 7th level.

If you pick Energy substitution you can turn that sonic damage into fire damage to make a pyro bard.

If you're really stupid that is. Bards are way better at save or suck. Pick skill focus enchantment and rely on charm person a lot. If you want to blast people go Warlock or Warmage. A Gish using area effect spells is dumb since they don't need attack rolls.

Mattarias, King.
2007-05-16, 03:43 PM
*hides from ocato* we're only allowed PHB spells...

And I know save-or-sucks totally own direct damage, but my character comes from a royal family whose in-battle philosophy is "kill it with fire". Sure, they rule a nation of fire creatures in the middle of an isolated desert, but eh. *shrug* I'm not one to just give up on stuff just because convention says so. -And like I said, our adventures are leaning a lot toward hack n' slash, so my diplomacy and buffs don't really help. The barbarian can take out most things without trying, though I'm often forced to be the backup fighter. Personally, I'd prefer to do at least a little blasting...

And for the record, I cannot switch characters. I've put far too much into this character to just give up now.

Thank you all for being patient with me. I know, I must seem like an stubborn jerk..

Indon
2007-05-16, 03:49 PM
I'm sorry to bust your bubble, but none of those plans make any sense. All three of them were you saying you did something ahead of time when it sounds like you're DM said "you got angry and started fighting, go."

They were probably more in-character than "I cast Invisibility and let the orc get arrested for disturbance of the peace," though.

A Gray Phantom
2007-05-16, 03:55 PM
Too bad you can only use PHB spells, I know a 2nd level bard spell that would do you good:

Tactical Precision

Allies gain additional +2 bonus on attack rolls and +1d6 additional damage against flanked foes.

The problem isn't the class you're playing, it is how you are playing it. See my post on Fighting With Flair B-)! Bardic Fun in Combat... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22338&highlight=fighting+flair+bard)

A few things in there are a little out of date (old post), but I still hold true to the intent of the post. Swing from chandeliers! Tumble past the enemy and flank him! Use ASSIST ANOTHER! Goad your opponent, and bluff him. If you have time before the fight, do you're pied piper thing and cause people to fight for you. Heck, you can take the leadership feat and earn yourself your own personal army.

Speaking of leadership, I was thinking about a character concept that's based around that. If you can earn yourself enough worshippers, you'll eventually obtain a divine rank, right? With your already high charisma, you could potentially start your own cult, and gather enough followers to technically establish yourself as a god!

DUN DUN DUUHHHH!!

ocato
2007-05-16, 04:01 PM
Many DMs respect the ancient bardic tactic of Grease + Matches = win. Others may rule that Grease is nonflammable, but I've never had such a DM. Get some flint and use oil a lot too. If you want to be a pyromaniac type, you do not have to know fireball, burning hands, or any other fire spell. You just need to be imaginative.

MobiusKlein
2007-05-16, 04:16 PM
'Grease + Matches' is pure fiction. Try it at home.
1) Get a tub of Crisco
2) Spread on floor.
3) Drop a lit match.
4) Nothing.

So if the DM lets it work in their fiction, OK. But don't presume it works in all fictions.

Mattarias, King.
2007-05-16, 04:59 PM
Phantom: nice link. :biggrin: I'm thinking of asking if I could be allowed to finesse with my longsword.. But still, I'd like to be able to torch stuff at least a few times, as well..

Ocato: trust me, i use that tactic all the time.. Except with lantern oil. XD either way, you have a point. Burning hands lights stuff on fire on a failed reflex.
.. actually, funny story, that.. impotant documents don't get reflex saves.. ^^'

also: not the catgirls!

A Gray Phantom
2007-05-16, 05:22 PM
Almost all the players in the game I DM have their weapons enchanted with flaming burst. It has actually become rather cliche, so I enforced that the bard in the group have a weapon that causes sonic damage rather than fire.

She was wielding a singing sword, anyway, so it only made more sense.

But you're wielding a special weapon, aren't you? Hmm, in that case...

My previously mentioned bard was also partial to fire. My DM was quite generous and allowed me to take the first level of seeker of the song prestige class before I met the prerequisites. This allowed me to make things go "boom" and immolate them at will. Before that, though, I depended on the elixir of fire breath (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#elixirofFireBreath).

I'm sure you've already done this, but I encourage investing heavily in that elixir. Bombs are also a great investment. Try talking some gnomes into inventing a flamethrower for you.

Besides the seeker of the song prestige class (those abilities are WAY better than the lame spells bards receive!), I'd recommend the combat trapsmith prestige class. As a combat trapsmith, you could build scorcher traps at combat speed. Very cool :smallbiggrin:. One catch is you need the trapfinding ability, which would either require multiclassing, or inventing some kind of feat.

ocato
2007-05-16, 05:29 PM
I can't speak for everyone or anyone but myself really, but I usually picture grease being more like an oil slick. Like engine grease. I know that isn't the spell's exact description (it is a little vague) but I don't think it is completely uncommon. Infact, D&D Online's spell Grease is a big black puddle and it is often spit out by constructs. Not that DDO is canon, but I think it's fair to say that flammable grease, or black oily grease, is somewhat commonly thought of and isn't me being the presumptuous jerk that has been implied.

Mattarias, King.
2007-05-16, 05:50 PM
Hmm.. yeah, I've considered a level of Seeker, but a lot of the abilities seem kinda useless. Seriously, when am I going to need to dismantle constru-

... Do animated tables count as constucts? I've had a -bad- experience with one of those, before..


And Ocato, that's actually exactly what I imagine grease to look like. XD hmm..

Jasdoif
2007-05-16, 06:05 PM
... Do animated tables count as constucts? I've had a -bad- experience with one of those, before..Yes. All animated objects are considered constructs.

Mattarias, King.
2007-05-16, 06:09 PM
Yes. All animated objects are considered constructs.

Ooh.. Hmm.. That changes this slightly.. Maybe..

oh, and those elixers are about as expensive as a mithril shirt. yeesh. O.o; I didn't even know of their existence till now.. Hmm..

Skjaldbakka
2007-05-16, 06:12 PM
Jujst to clarify, the grease spell is specifically non-flammable. There is another spell that creates flammable grease though. (I think its 2nd level)

ocato
2007-05-16, 06:20 PM
I'm willing to accept that grease is nonflammable, except no one has shown me where it says that.

Mattarias, King.
2007-05-16, 07:32 PM
Well, from what I know, grease is core, and incendiary slime is not. thus, the house-rules that apply to grease would still be in place. even if it does not say that grease is nonflammable. I'd think that Is/ is just a MORE flammable version of grease, not the only flammable version.

That's my two coppers, at least.

MobiusKlein
2007-05-17, 12:15 AM
The original spell is silent on the flammability of the grease.
It is also silent on the flavor of the grease, and if it tastes good on toast. :smallamused: Other places in the book have text about the damage from oil fire, alchemist 's fire, and so on. But no text about grease fires.

So, if it made the description said it makes the surface Oily, I'd give it to you. (If I were GMing for you, that is.) Then you would slip into a greased pit trap on the next adventure, and land on the flint & steel at the bottom.

A Gray Phantom
2007-05-17, 04:06 AM
I have a couple of questions:

What sort of style does your bard use? I'm guessing, from the art in your sig, that he plays guitar.

Also, since you said you have a longsword, I'm assuming you've taken the spell whirling blade (unless your DM is still forbidding spells from anywhere but PHB). Is your longsword the special weapon that your DM gave you? What special powers does it have?

My aforementioned kobold bard had a special sickle with alchemical capsules attached to it. As a swift action, he'd activate a quickflame capsule, setting the blade ablaze. Then he'd cast whirling blade - woe unto any who stood within 60ft of this awesome attack.

This was his favorite attack (next to his burning melody). Everytime he used, it he would shout:

":furious:WHIRLING BLADE OF FIERY DEATH:furious:!!" Always in classic Dragonball Z style :biggrin:.

Ninja Chocobo
2007-05-17, 06:31 AM
You could go Wizard -> Ultimate Magus. Sub-par, but still decent, and it seems to fit what you're looking for.

Darrin
2007-05-17, 08:56 AM
And I know save-or-sucks totally own direct damage, but my character comes from a royal family whose in-battle philosophy is "kill it with fire".

There are a few ways to add Fireball to your Bard's spell list:

1) Get into Sublime Chord ASAP. Although this doesn't explicitly give you fireball (it's a 3rd level spell, and Sublime Chord gives you levels 4th-9th), it does put it on your spell list, which allows you to use spell-completion and spell-trigger items. Then again, a high enough UMD would do the same thing. (You might be able to swap one of your 3rd level spells for Fireball, but the wording on swapping Sublime Chord/Bard spells is a bit wonky.)

2) Find a fire deity with the appropriate matching alignment, and take Arcane Disciple (CompDiv) to add Fire domain spells to your spell list. You'll need at least a Wis 16 to get a 3rd level domain spell. Unfortunately, some bonehead made Resist Energy the 3rd level domain spell. You can fix this by taking the "Customize Domain" feat (Dragon #325). Replace Resist Energy with Fireball at 3rd. For 2nd, you can keep Produce Flame or switch it with Scorching Ray. Flaming Sphere or Flame Blade would also work, as would Blades of Fire or Fire Burst from Comp. Arc. For 1st level, replace Burning Hands with Lesser Orb of Fire (since you already have Burning Hands).

3) Lyric Thaumaturges get to add additional spells from the Wiz/Sor list. As a 6th level Lyric Thaumaturge ability, you could add Fireball to your spell list.

If all you want to do is just fire-based blasting, then get into Lyric Thaumaturge ASAP and at 5th level, you get Sonic Might, which allows you to spend a use of Bardic Music to add 1d6/spell level of Sonic damage to any spell with the Sonic descriptor. Pick up the Energy Substitution feat to convert that Sonic damage into Fire damage. You may need to pick up Rapid Metamagic to avoid increasing the casting time, and Extra Music would let you dish out more happy fun flames.

The Fiery Burst reserve feat would also give you some fairly reliable fire-blasting. Unfortunately, bards don't have a 2nd level spell with the fire descriptor, and I'm not sure if having Energy Substitution would count the same as having a 2nd level fire spell ready to cast without metamagic. You can fix this with the Arcane Disciple feat I mentioned above, or as a 3rd level Lyric Thaumaturge, you can add one 1st and 2nd level fire-based Sor/Wiz spells to your spells known.

Looks like your best bet for a fire-based Bard blaster is Lyric Thaumaturge. Take Melodic Casting at Bard 6 and you're in:

1) Bard 1, Feat: Sudden Extend, Radiant Spell, Quicken Spell, or Eschew Materials (your preference, so long as its metamagic)
2) Bard 2
3) Bard 3, Feat: Energy Substitution
4) Bard 4
5) Bard 5
6) Bard 6, Feat: Melodic Casting
7) Lyric Thaumaturge 1
8) Lyric Thaumaturge 2
9) Lyric Thaumaturge 3, Feat: Fiery Burst or Rapid Metamagic, add Lesser Orb of Fire and Scorching Ray to spell list.
10) Sublime Chord 1
11) Lyric Thaumaturge 4
12) Lyric Thaumaturge 5, Feat: Fiery Burst or Rapid Metamagic
13) Lyric Thaumaturge 6, add Fireball and Wall of Fire
14) Lyric Thaumaturge 7
15) Lyric Thaumaturge 8, Feat: Extra Music
16) Lyric Thaumaturge 9, add Greater Fireburst (CompArc) and Fires of Purity (CompDiv)
17) Lyric Thaumaturge 10
18) Sublime Chord 2, Feat: Extra Music, Subsonics, or Chant of Fortitude,
19) Sublime Chord 3
20) Sublime Chord 4

Telonius
2007-05-17, 09:48 AM
Internet ate my last post ... a two-level dip in Master of Masks could get you a few spell options, with the loss of only one cater level. Archmage, Demon, and Gladiator would be good mask choices for you.

Darrin
2007-05-17, 10:26 AM
Whoops, all that work, and I went back to the OP and saw "gish". Hrrrm.

Heartfire Fanner doesn't do enough fire-related stuff, and the metamagic reduction is too difficult to use... you'd be better off using Incantatrix or feats for that. Also, you only really need to dip one level of Elemental Savant to pick up Elemental Specialty to convert all your energy-based damage into fire damage. Lyric Thaumaturge is still a strong pick there because you can add extra Sonic damage (which would be converted to Fire damage).

The backbone of most Gish builds is going to be Eldritch Knight or Abjurant Champion, since they have full BAB and decent HPs. Anything less and your gish will have the combat durability of wet tissue paper. (Do you have Tome of Battle? Jade Phoenix Mage is also great for gishing, has fairly easy entry requirements, and at 10th level, you can self-immolate into a 60' radius fireball.)

For a Gish, I'd recommend:

1) Bard 1, Feat: something metamagic
2) Bard 2
3) Bard 3, Feat: Energy Substitution
4) Fighter 1, Bonus Feat: Improved Toughness
5) Bard 4
6) Bard 5, Feat: Melodic Casting
7) Lyric Thaumaturge 1
8) Lyric Thaumaturge 2
9) Lyric Thaumaturge 3, Feat: Fiery Burst
10) Elemental Savant 1
11) Sublime Chord 1
12) Lyric Thaumaturge 4, Feat: Extra Music
13) Lyric Thaumaturge 5
14) Lyric Thaumaturge 6 (Fireball!)
15) Sublime Chord 2, Feat: Combat Casting
16) Abjurant Champion 1
17) Abjurant Champion 2
18) Abjurant Champion 3, Feat: ???
19) Abjurant Champion 4
20) Abjurant Champion 5

Hmm. Not quite optimal there. BAB is only +14, fairly light on HPs for most of the build, and for the most part this is still pretty much a pure blaster with no real reason to get anywhere near melee. Your bread-and-butter will be energy-based ranged spells that do Sonic+Fire damage. And there's not much metamagic there... no enlarges, maximize, or radiant fun. If you really want to do metamagic on the fly, then try Sublime Chord + Incantatrix. Unfortunately, it's hard to do gish+metamagic, not really enough feats for that.

To really combine melee attacks with spellcasting, you'll want to go into Spellsword (although you'll lose caster levels) or Duskblade. Otherwise you're stuck with choosing between using your standard actions for attacks or for spells.

Mattarias, King.
2007-05-18, 09:10 PM
Okay, first of all, -sweet.- :smalleek: I didn't know there was so much stuff. Wow, thanks. My DM might let me learn scorching ray next level (I'm going into level four), and I'm considering at least dipping into Seeker, so I'll have fiery burst and burning melody, I guess. (It seems she's going to allow fiery bust, and nothing else from comp. mage, apparently.)

oh, and in order:

He uses guitar and oratory. Moreso oratory, though. Likes to hear himself talk. No, I haven't taken whirling blade, but I'm interested now. A lot. O.o'
Mononoke's abilities seem to be sonic-related, but they're not unlocked yet. I have to wait till level five until they are. (For any Bleach fans, my sword's not even in shikai yet. :smallwink: )

Ultimate magus seems tasty, but isn't terribly gishy. Thanks for the advice, though.

Master of Masks.. well.. wouldn't work. Mat likes his face being seen. A lot.

and to the awesome build: I'm already level three, taken skill focus: perform, and eschew materials, which isn't metamagic according to the PHB, unfortunately.

also, I love jade phoenix mages, if only for that ability, yet my DM doesn't allow it. She dislikes books which introduce new rules she has to know. unfotrtunately, it looks like complete divine and complete mage are out for the most part. And my wisdom isn't going to give me any doman spells, anyways.

Either way, thank you all for the suggestions. :biggrin: I espescially like the whirling blade of fiery death bit. :smallbiggrin:

Jonrea
2007-05-18, 09:25 PM
If you have Tome of Battle there's a feat that stacks makes it so you can use inspire courage as a swift action while in a White Raven stance. Multiclass as a warblade and you'll get all your fighting desires filled. Then go JPM FTW.

Edit: Nevermind.

Mattarias, King.
2007-05-18, 09:32 PM
If you have Tome of Battle there's a feat that stacks makes it so you can use inspire courage as a swift action while in a White Raven stance. Multiclass as a warblade and you'll get all your fighting desires filled. Then go JPM FTW.

Edit: Nevermind.

Trust me, I wish I could. ToB is AWESOME. I was thinking swordsage for desert wing manuevers along with white raven, but yeah, unfortuanately, no ToB for me.

ZeroNumerous
2007-05-18, 09:44 PM
Phantom: nice link. :biggrin: I'm thinking of asking if I could be allowed to finesse with my longsword.. But still, I'd like to be able to torch stuff at least a few times, as well.

Elven Courtblade. Finessable greatswords for the hilarity.

Mattarias, King.
2007-05-18, 09:46 PM
Elven Courtblade. Finessable greatswords for the hilarity.

XD what? That's rediculous. I love it. I'd ask to use one if I didn't plan on sticking with my current sword throught the whole campaign.