The Jumplomancer - are you serious?

[Bullet06320]

as originally posted by caedrus on WOTC boards on Oct 25 2007
http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1141886

This build is a testament to the power of caffeine fuelled idiocy:

A Jump Check that makes people fanatical.

Alright, here are a few ideas and a build that I shall work on a little later. But, for the moment, here it is:

This is a link to the Jump record, from Funny Slaughter’s list of CO Records.

It lists Jump as having a +366 bonus. This is excellently constructed. But, here is my idea:

Get a Fighter 1 / Druid 9, with a Strength of 14. We'll go with whatever race, but a 30' Base Move is a good place to start. We can certainly add in Prestige Classes, as well, but we need Wild Shape.
At Level 1, take Power Attack.
At level 3, take Skill Focus (Jump)
At Level 6, take Leap Attack (Complete Adventurer).
At Level 9, take Cheetah’s Speed (Complete Divine).

If you're human, take Run. Every little bit, well, is probably unnecessary.

Also, let's take the Quick trait, from Unearthed Arcana. This bit is optional, of course.

We should also grab 5 ranks in Tumble. Again, unnecessary, but we might as well.

Oh, and for fun, take the Shadow Template (Lords of Madness).

We won’t need any equipment or magic.

For now, let’s just use one of our Wild Shape uses to get Cheetah’s Speed, which makes our movement 50’. Excellent. Quick adds another 10', making it 60' But then our Shadow Template allows for 50% greater speed, so we’re zooming along at 90; Now, Cheetah’s Speed lets us sprint as a cheetah, at ten times our normal speed (which is 900’), as part of a charge. Now, since we are charging, we can Jump (since we have Leap Attack), and that means that our Jump check (which has a bonus based on speed of +4 for every 10’ beyond 30’) has a bonus of +(((900-30) /10) x +4) 348. For the sake of the maths, let’s say that we have 13 Ranks by this point, so the Jump check comes out at +361. Synergy from Tumble gets us +363, Skill Focus gets us +366, and Acrobatic gets us to +368, Strength gets us to +370, so this should allow us a new Jump Record, as far as I can see.

Now, let’s add in a little idiocy.

A Fighter 1 / Druid 9 / Exemplar 5 (Complete Adventurer) in this build needs: Diplomacy 6 Ranks (Druids get Diplomacy as a class skill, so no problems there); Jump 13 Ranks: Yes, we can manage that; Skill Focus (any; let’s choose Jump), and those 5 ranks in tumble. A little cross-classing there. You can delete this bit if you wish.

At Exemplar 1, we choose Skill Artistry in Jump. Then, at Level 5, we get Persuasive Performance. Now we can use Jump as a Diplomacy check. So, we can now make a +370 Jump check using the idea above, and our chosen NPC (or crowd) is automatically turned into a fanatic using the rules in the Epic Level Handbook.

Now, the performance "must be nonthreatening" and "requires at least one minute to perform":

Nonthreatening is fine, we can attack using a method specifically chosen to not harm something (just have your target be immune to your attack, have damage reduction, etc).

Interestingly, the minute performance thing is easy: Since we can jump at any point in our charge, we simply jump at the last 5' of movement in our charge. By the rules of Jump (PHB, Pg 77), "if you run out of movement mid jump, your next action (either on this turn, or, if necessary, on your next turn) must be a move action to complete your jump."; since our base movement is only 90, it will take us 10 rounds (one minute) to land from our herculean leap. Yes, idiotic, I know. Yes, it breaks a lot of laws of physics.

But, from what I can see, this works. We run, jump, land a minute later amongst an adoring crowd who immediately turn fanatical to me. Like I said, a truly stupid concept. There is lots of polishing needed on this silly, silly build, obviously.

Thanks for any positive input.

C.

[Kurald Galain]

Ah, that was always one of my favorites. Thanks!

[Andreaz]

Be glad it's jump, and not escape artist used to get inside someone's ass.

[Yael]

Be glad it's jump, and not escape artist used to get inside someone's ass.

Do you remember Blood Magus' artwork? Heh, I'm glad I printed that into your mind.

[Andreaz]

Do you remember Blood Magus' artwork? Heh, I'm glad I printed that into your mind.

I have mastered the Three Roleplayer Skills years ago, man. Don't worry :D

[Troacctid]

Now, Cheetah’s Speed lets us sprint as a cheetah, at ten times our normal speed (which is 900’), as part of a charge. Now, since we are charging, we can Jump (since we have Leap Attack), and that means that our Jump check (which has a bonus based on speed of +4 for every 10’ beyond 30’) has a bonus of +(((900-30) /10) x +4) 348.

There are multiple things wrong with this. First off, the Exemplar's Persuasive Performance ability is an action of its own and requires 1 minute to perform; you can't use it as part of a charge. Second, even if you could, it wouldn't give you a bonus to your Jump check, because Cheetah's Sprint doesn't increase your speed any more than a normal charge does--it just lets you move 10x your speed instead of 2x.

Your actual bonus on the Jump check is +24, not +348. Add in the +18 from ranks at 15th level, +4 from Run, +3 from Skill Focus (Jump), +30 for a Jump spell at CL 9, and your total check result, taking 10, is 89. Still pretty impressive (and this is before factoring in your Strength, or any insight or competence or racial bonuses), but not nearly as astronomical.

[Kurald Galain]

Cheetah's Sprint doesn't increase your speed any more than a normal charge does--it just lets you move 10x your speed instead of 2x.

CS increases your speed, but not your base speed. However, the bonus to jump checks is also based on your speed, not your base speed, so that works.

If you move 400' in a round then your speed is 400' per round. That is what the word "speed" means, after all.

[Troacctid]

If you move 400' in a round then your speed is 400' per round. That is what the word "speed" means, after all.

"Speed" in D&D does not refer to the maximum distance you can move in a round, it refers to the distance you move with a single move (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#move) action.


speed: The number of feet a creature can move when taking a move action.

If your speed were 400 feet, then you would move 4000 feet (400 * 10) when using Cheetah's Sprint.

[Kurald Galain]

"Speed" in D&D does not refer to the maximum distance you can move in a round, it refers to the distance you move with a single move (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#move) action.

The link you post there is not the definition of "speed", so that really doesn't prove your point.

Once again, speed means distance over time. If you move 280 yards in one minute, then your speed is 280 yards per minute. By definition.

[Troacctid]

The link you post there is not the definition of "speed", so that really doesn't prove your point.

Yes it is, and yes it does? Literally the definition of "speed" from the glossary in the Player's Handbook. I don't know what other citation you want from me here. :smallconfused:

[Andreaz]

Kurald's using real world speed. d&d's speed is not that. d&d's speed is how much you move in a single, common, move action.
Which is that fixed number on the sheet. You can move, without doing anything special, up to four times that in a round.

[Grod_The_Giant]

It's a rare thing when the common sense approach (sprinting super-fast gives you a big bonus to Jump!) supports the high-op build, and the persnickety rules-lawyering hinders it.

But to join in, Jump notes that "effects that increase your movement also increase your jumping distance"-- movement, not speed. Either way, I remember some trick where you persisted a spell and then discharged it for a speed boost based on the remaining duration, giving you a ridiculous bonus. Anyone remember what spell that was? Also, don't forget to be Thri-keen and cast jump for another +60.

[Troacctid]

But to join in, Jump notes that "effects that increase your movement also increase your jumping distance"-- movement, not speed.

Here's the exact text from the SRD.


Your Jump check is modified by your speed. If your speed is 30 feet then no modifier based on speed applies to the check. If your speed is less than 30 feet, you take a -6 penalty for every 10 feet of speed less than 30 feet. If your speed is greater than 30 feet, you gain a +4 bonus for every 10 feet beyond 30 feet.

Note that the real-world definition of speed would make no sense in this context, as our real-world speed can't be measured in "feet"--that's meaningless without a time interval.

[TheIronGolem]

Jumplomancer: "Hey everyone, you should do this!"

Everyone: "Why?"

Jumplomancer: "Because LOOK HOW HIGH I CAN JUMP YOU GUYS!"

Everyone: "Whoah, that's awesome! Now we're all your friends and we'll do what you say!"

Jumplomancy: Because the D&D is world is populated entirely by first-graders.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Unless I am mistaken there is a limit on how far the people can be from the exemplar when he does this and the jumplomancer leaves that area quite handily. Cool idea, but has some issues.

[sovin_ndore]

Either way, I remember some trick where you persisted a spell and then discharged it for a speed boost based on the remaining duration, giving you a ridiculous bonus. Anyone remember what spell that was?
The spell that brought up that line of contemplation for TO speed records was from Complete Champion and was called 'Footsteps of the Divine'. As I remember, it read roughly that you would add an additional +10 feet to your speed per round remaining in the spell's duration. The thought was that you could then Extend+Persist the spell for 48 hour duration before discharging for a huge bonus. Unfortunately, I think it was debunked based on the RAW for Persist specifying "A Persistent spell cannot be an effect that is discharged"

[Chronos]

Unfortunately, Footsteps of the Divine doesn't actually use the word "discharge". It probably should, but it doesn't.

[Zytil]

Unfortunately, I think it was debunked based on the RAW for Persist specifying "A Persistent spell cannot be an effect that is discharged"

IIRC, it used to work, and persistent spell was errata'd specifically to fix it.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Here's the exact text from the SRD.
Yes, and a little bit below that is the text I quoted. Your quote is the normal rule, mine is the exception. The exception isn't handicapped by a RAW-literalist reading of "speed."

[Troacctid]

Yes, and a little bit below that is the text I quoted. Your quote is the normal rule, mine is the exception. The exception isn't handicapped by a RAW-literalist reading of "speed."

Okay, then tell me: if you're not using the text I quoted, how are you calculating your bonus?

Anyway, if that's your reading, then I have a better plan. Forget Cheetah's Speed, just walk a few miles before jumping. Because if you move 100,030 feet before you jump, you'll get a +40,000 bonus to your check, right?

[Kurald Galain]

Anyway, if that's your reading, then I have a better plan. Forget Cheetah's Speed, just walk a few miles before jumping. Because if you move 100,030 feet before you jump, you'll get a +40,000 bonus to your check, right?

Dude, seriously. Speed equals distance over time. Not plain distance. Duh.

[Troacctid]

Dude, seriously. Speed equals distance over time. Not plain distance. Duh.

Better tell that to the books, because speed in D&D is measured in feet. Not feet per round, not feet per second, not feet per hour... just feet.

"126,720 feet per day" is distance over time. What bonus does that give you on your Jump check?

[SodaDarwin]

If we get into a debate over it being just distance rather than distance/round, then that means nearly everyone effectively has a +[insert stupid number here] to their jump check due to moving around in day to day life.
Even a worm.

[9mm]

Jumplomancer: "Hey everyone, you should do this!"

Everyone: "Why?"

Jumplomancer: "Because LOOK HOW HIGH I CAN JUMP YOU GUYS!"

Everyone: "Whoah, that's awesome! Now we're all your friends and we'll do what you say!"

Jumplomancy: Because the D&D is world is populated entirely by first-graders.

sadly this is essentially the plot from A Princess of Mars.

[TheCrowing1432]

Be glad it's jump, and not escape artist used to get inside someone's ass.

the assplomancer reigns supreme

[SangoProduction]

May already been said, but Shadow Template modifies...well, here "Speed: As base creature x 1-1/2."
So, it only multiplies your base speed, which is still +15. This gets funky when the base creature changes forms, as the base creature no longer exists per se, but we can assume it just gives +15 to the speed.

[sovin_ndore]

IIRC, it used to work, and persistent spell was errata'd specifically to fix it.
That sounds right... my memory on this was a little fuzzy. Thank you for clarifying.

[ShaneMRoth]

Okay, why not try this again...

From the SRD on the Jump skill...


Your Jump check is modified by your speed. If your speed is 30 feet then no modifier based on speed applies to the check.


Your speed.

Not your running speed, your base speed. Why is that important? Because...


All Jump DCs given here assume that you get a running start

So, if you are making a Running Jump? That's the default, based on a speed of 30.

You don't say, "well, when I'm running my speed is 120, so I get a... +36 bonus to my Jump skill check.

Your speed is 30 and your running jump bonus is ZERO. Because you are already supposed to be running.

If you weren't running? Then your long jump DC is twice as high. And your jump bonus is still ZERO.

So, your jumplomancer would have a speed of 90, and that would be the speed used to calculate his Jump bonus. Which would be a respectable +24. And would allow him to make running jumps of about 50 feet or so.

You would no more use his 900 foot running speed to establish his Jump skill bonus than you would use a 1st level commoner's running speed of 120 to establish his Jump skill bonus.

[Killer Angel]

I wouldn't turn fanatical, but I certainly would be very impressed.

But certain people (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fan_(1996_film)) will become fanatical, in front of sport's performances.

[Turion]

sadly this is essentially the plot from A Princess of Mars.

...this missed turning into a spit-take by about half a second. Well played :smalltongue:

[Chronos]

I, too, will never again read Burroughs in the same way.

[atemu1234]

Can we fit Thri-Keen in here? It can get a +20 bonus to jump.

[rockdeworld]

I would like to point out that the OP is a repost of a repost (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16918020&postcount=5). That said, I have no problem with anything in this thread.

[GilesTheCleric]

My apologies for not listing your thread earlier, rockdeworld. If anyone has already posted a copy of a WotC thread (or knows of one) that isn't yet in the index of WotC 3.X threads (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?444041-Threads-from-the-Wizards-forums), please let me know and I will add it. We're down to about 30 more days left to copy material.

[danzibr]

Jumplomancer: "Hey everyone, you should do this!"

Everyone: "Why?"

Jumplomancer: "Because LOOK HOW HIGH I CAN JUMP YOU GUYS!"

Everyone: "Whoah, that's awesome! Now we're all your friends and we'll do what you say!"

Jumplomancy: Because the D&D is world is populated entirely by first-graders.
Ha, made me lol. Reminds me of my son (not yet in kindergarten).

[ComaVision]

Best I can get is 136 Jump Check.

Wildshape Mystic Ranger 9/Blade Dancer 10 with Shadow template

Base speed from Cheetah's Speed is 50 + 10 (Quick trait) then multiply that by 3 from Blade Dancer: 180 base speed

Multiply that by 1.5x for Shadow Template, 270 base speed and +32 to Jump.

Jump spell (via Sword of the Arcane Order) gives us +30

Blade Dancer gives us +30 and lets us take 10 always

Ranks gives us +22 (19 level build)

16 Strength, Run, Skill Focus and Tumble synergy gives us another +12

Total: 32+30+30+10+22+5=136

Kind of fun but too high level to actually be practical. It seems I'll never get to play a Dragoon from Final Fantasy :smallfrown:

[Bullet06320]

I would like to point out that the OP is a repost of a repost (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16918020&postcount=5). That said, I have no problem with anything in this thread.

oops, didn't know it got reposted already, and by the looks of it, qwite sum time ago too

[Killer Angel]

Can we fit Thri-Keen in here? It can get a +20 bonus to jump.

It was already mentioned.
Not that we really need it. After all, there is not a further step, beyond "fanatic". :smallwink:

[Chronos]

Quoth ComaVision:

Best I can get is 136 Jump Check.

Wildshape Mystic Ranger 9/Blade Dancer 10 with Shadow template
You need four levels of Exemplar in there, too, though, for a jumplomancer, as that's what gives you the "use this skill as Diplomacy" ability. Exemplar does at least give you a bonus to the skill (unfortunately competence, which is redundant) and skill mastery, though.