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A Gray Phantom
2007-05-15, 08:45 PM
A typical D&D adventure consists of the adventuring party surviving the dungeon, killing the bad guys, taking the loot and gaining experience. I, however, am no ordinary DM. I like to award extra XP for things other than murder :smalltongue:. I also test the resolve of my players, comparing alignments and challenging them with puzzles.

I'm going to throw them a curveball tomorrow, and I have no idea how they are going to react. I'm curious what anyone in this situation would do:

You've been hired by, or are working for, the military of a small but powerful government on the western desert half of a small island. Maybe you're a soldier, or maybe you're a mercenary, or maybe some kind of hero, or maybe you're just hired entertainment (use your imagination as to why you're there).

You are being sent outside your borders to the mountains to take care of the source of an illegal drug manufacturing organization. The drugs haven't really bothered the country that has hired you, save for a few isolated incidents. Most of the drugs are, in fact, illegally shipped to other countries via smugglers through the eastern half of the island, which doesn't have a structured government.

You get to the village where the enemy has based his operations. This is where things get complicated:

As it turns out, the village is occupied by women, children, and several lowly commoners. All these people will be economically ruined if their crop of coca leaves is destroyed. On top of that, the coca leaves are also used to combat elevation sickness. Destroying this crop means hundreds, maybe even thousands, of people in other mountain villages, will get sick and possibly die without their medicine.

On top of that, the crops are being guarded by lawful good monks dedicated to protecting their homes.

Not to say there aren't some bad guys still left to fight. There is one evil villain who is running the illicit drug operation. Yes, the main boss is evil, and he is deliberately shipping out a substance that, if misused, can do a lot of harm.

So, I am curious to see how my players react to this. They will be given the choice to simply go in, kill everyone, and burn the crop to non-existence, but I get the feeling that they won't do that. I also doubt that they'd completly abandon the mission.

To clarify things: the players are the only high-level party members (about level 8 to 11 at the most) on this mission. There are a few other NPCs, but they aren't very strong. Also, they seem to follow your lead:

Five archers
Five missionaries - One adept of St. Cuthbert, one adept of Heironeous, two adepts of Wee Jas, and a low-level cleric of Wee Jas.
And one scorpionfolk (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/scorpionfolk.htm).

There are a few more details, but nothing super-duper important. The party's ultimate goal is to catch an evil witch who helped to start the drug war and, yadda yadda yadda, is moving to unleash a power to kill everyone on the island.

So, what would you do?

Beleriphon
2007-05-15, 08:53 PM
Its and interesting setup. They can't just do the usual go in and kill everybody, but at the same time they can just off the head honcho and convince the good monks to stop the selling the stuff has an illicit narcotic.

Kojiro Kakita
2007-05-15, 08:53 PM
Hmm, I would scout out the area more and begin to target the areas where the drugs are being smuggled from. If I understand, the mission is to stop the smuggling; if that is the case, then I will just target the shipments.

ocato
2007-05-15, 09:05 PM
This is one of the reasons I love the bard.

"My friends! You are being manipulated! If you cooperate with us in removing the taint of these illicit and illegal drug smugglers, your crops and your ways can be maintained peacefully!"

A diplomacy check or two later and all those monks and crap are doing the work for you, while a native girl fans you with a palm frond and feeds you grapes.

PinkysBrain
2007-05-15, 09:05 PM
Assassinate the local mobsters, reason with the monks afterwards to get them to back off while you burn most of the crop (they likely only need a small fraction for local consumption). I don't care what kind of deal they have with the mobsters, LG is not LS ... it's not worth dying over.

ClericofPhwarrr
2007-05-15, 09:20 PM
Simply go in, kill everyone, and burn the crop to non-existence. Everyone's guilty by association anyways, so that means more xp for slain enemies! :smallwink:

ocato
2007-05-15, 09:22 PM
*remembers to watch Threan carefully*

Citizen Joe
2007-05-15, 09:23 PM
Burn the fields and go home. If you don't interact with the townfolk you can sleep well in the notion that they were evil drug smugglers. You've done your duty to god and country, time to head back.

Inyssius Tor
2007-05-15, 09:46 PM
Okay, so the situation is thus:

1. You (that is, "the persons in this situation") are owned by a tiny Lawful government on the west side of the island. They have sent you, with ten mooks and a monster, to smash an international drug-smuggling ring. Since the problem is international, you have to cut off its head (not just the tendrils extending into your country).

2. You have tracked the evil smugglers (in an exceedingly violent fashion) beyond your borders, to a mid-sized village in the ungoverned east side of your island. The village produces coca leaves, which can be made into either a drug or a much-needed medicine. The villagers would be ruined if you burned their crops, and they are protected by (powerful) Lawful monks. The smugglers buy all of the village's coca leaves.

Seems to me like a pretty easy problem; you take your men (and monster) and smash up some smugglers (enlisting the monks if possible). The villagers can just export medicine, and the world will profit.
Leave the Cuthbertite with the monks; he'll mesh best with their worldview, and can root out any smugglers which remain in the town (that being Cuthbert's area of expertise and all). Take everyone else home, to prevent nasty diplomatic issues.

ClericofPhwarrr
2007-05-15, 09:52 PM
Actually, if you enslaved the villagers instead of killing them, it'd be even better for you in the long run. Why didn't I think of this sooner? *Looks sadly at burning village*

Inyssius Tor
2007-05-15, 10:04 PM
... My party, of course, would ignore my eminently logical plan and burn the village, killing everyone.

Around the fifth time that I tell them what our plan should have been, they will actually hear me, after which they will yell at me for not telling them before the massacre.

A Gray Phantom
2007-05-15, 10:30 PM
Hmm, yes :smallamused:. I love how you are all responding. Some would take the easy way, and simply go all out and kill the lot of them. Others are looking for a more peaceful resolution, limiting who the village sells their crop to - even at the risk of economic ruin. Then there are those of you who, though with the best of intentions, are inevitably starting a drug war by going after the smugglers themselves.

My favorite suggestions so far:

Ocato's "harken unto me" approach. Confident, stylistic, and not half-baked. Yes, bard for teh win!

Inyssius Tor uses his resources to his advantage: The missionary of St Cuthbert. She'd probably start a church in that village, and do a lot of good in instilling order.

ClericofPhwarrr's simple, yet effective, "burn them all" approach. Slavery might be possible, but eventually the monks will fall back into the caves surrounding the village. Then, from the caves, the monks will resort to an insurgency and guerrilla tactics...

Here is your reward: Mwa ha ha. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlaGc5LmlWk)

Also, here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1Aed6vsPWg)is me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSM5AhV8Wbo)in blue tights (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhhC9E74NJg).

One thing I forgot to mention. The leader of the LG monks protecting the crop and the villagers feels a certain dedication to the evil mobster in charge of the smugglers. He thinks of him as a serrogant father. That monk's name is Paper Lotus, and a fight with him is inevitable.

Not to say that there isn't any way to come to peaceful solution with Paper. Yes, in fact, it is possible to convince him to join your side. But to keep the game interesting, I'm going to have the players fight a lawful good character :smallbiggrin:.

Mwa ha ha. If the players just kill Paper Lotus straight up, then the other monks will charge the party, and the nearby wu jen - Paper's mother, will also start gunning at the players :biggrin:!

ocato
2007-05-15, 11:05 PM
Um... about that youtube stuff... you do know the internet is viewable by the public, don't you?

mikeejimbo
2007-05-15, 11:31 PM
I can't believe how many of you would kill them all and burn the crops! Sheesh.

I would kill them all and then seize the crops myself, and continue the drug ring as though nothing has happened. I'd report to my employers that the problem is taken care of, and make sure to keep it under wraps as long as it takes to build up the power necessary to destroy this government.

Enslaving them? Too risky, in my opinion. It'd be harder to hide.

ClericofPhwarrr
2007-05-15, 11:48 PM
I can't believe how many of you would kill them all and burn the crops! Sheesh.

I would kill them all and then seize the crops myself, and continue the drug ring as though nothing has happened. I'd report to my employers that the problem is taken care of, and make sure to keep it under wraps as long as it takes to build up the power necessary to destroy this government.

Enslaving them? Too risky, in my opinion. It'd be harder to hide.

But less work and more economically productive in the long run! Otherwise you start taking levels in Commoner (Farmer) to grow and harvest all those crops.

Or druid, I suppose. Though I can't imagine why you'd EVER do that. :smallwink:

goat
2007-05-16, 03:38 AM
Right, well, FIRST, we need a Helm of Opposite Alignment.

Then we have two choices.

1) Stick it on the monks, hope they fail their will saves, use them as the commanding operatives of your new drug ring in the manner Mikeejimbo suggests.

2) Stick it on the head of the drug ring leader, convert him to good, force him to see the error of his ways, have a little party.

OR

3) "Accidently" poison all of the drugs during processing. See how long the drug ring survives without customers, and with new, and decidedly angry opponents.

A Gray Phantom
2007-05-16, 03:39 AM
Um... about that youtube stuff... you do know the internet is viewable by the public, don't you?

:smallredface: Whatever do you mean?

Dervag
2007-05-16, 04:13 AM
Burn the fields and go home. If you don't interact with the townfolk you can sleep well in the notion that they were evil drug smugglers. You've done your duty to god and country, time to head back.Let me guess: you're in the DEA.
:smallwink:

Neon Knight
2007-05-16, 06:10 AM
Kasrkin's Three Methods of Drug Ring Destruction for Profit and Pleasure:

1. The Xykon Method

Step 1. Kill all the villagers.
Step 2. Raise them as zombies.
Step 3. Have them eat drug lords.

2. Monty Python Meets Mr. Plauge!

Step 1. Obtain several anti-disease and fortitude boosting items for your self and accomplices.
Step 2. Obtain plague infested corpses of domestic animals.
Step 3. Obtain catapult.
Step 4. Use corpses as catapult ammo to bombard village. Never go near village ever again.

3. The Comrade Approach

Step 1. Form a social-economic theory about class structure and the struggle between the workers and those who own the means of production.
Step 2. Incite rebellion in the villagers. Have them overthrow their masters.
Step 3. Overthrow the government that sent you in a similar manner.
Step 4. Become a medieval Fidel Castro.

Citizen Joe
2007-05-16, 06:18 AM
Let me guess: you're in the DEA.
:smallwink:
No, but this is EXACTLY what is happening in Afganistan, only its a much larger scale there. I'm surprised this didn't get flagged as political.

Fishy
2007-05-16, 06:50 AM
Hold up. If there's no government on the Eastern Shores, how is it illegal? If the drugs aren't being sold in Westcountry, why do they care?

Once that scenario is already started, though I guess you need to respond to it like a mercenary job. Beat up the obvious bad guy, bring back his head, and forget the whole thing ever happened, conveniently ignoring the fact that the villagers are just going to turn around and sell the plants to someone else. Not paid enough to care.

Subotei
2007-05-16, 07:09 AM
Hold up. If there's no government on the Eastern Shores, how is it illegal? If the drugs aren't being sold in Westcountry, why do they care?

I'm with you on the first point. First thing thats needed is a war of conquest to bring the Eastern half under our power, then we can lay down the law...

Alternatively:
1. Ask the drug baron not to sell to anyone in Westcountry - doesn't look like a big part of his operation and he may comply for an easy life, or

2. Legalise the drug and tax it.

Meschaelene
2007-05-16, 07:22 AM
I agree that this is political...

...but I often run political games. I like it.

The first thing I would do is determine if the villagers, and the monks that are protecting them, are aware that their crop is transformed into a deadly product thats both illegal and killing people in other lands. If they are not, they are now. Second, what are they doing to stop it? If the answer is "nothing", then they are neither lawful nor good. For their crime in knowingly perpetrating such a pestilential crime upon their far off neighbors, my sentence upon them is to visit the village well one evening.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/contagion.htm

ravenkith
2007-05-16, 09:00 AM
Play as an elan telepath, aiming for thrallherd.

Step 1: Go to illegal drug lord.

Step 2: Steal all his profits.

Step 3: Use profits to buy farmland in west country.

Step 4: Burn fields.

Step 5: Offer to set up immigrants on your farmland as part of a sharecropping system.

Step 6: Watch as the smart foreigners move out of the mountains into the lowlands, and work on your land.

Step 7: Profit!

Step 8: Pay taxes to Government.

Step 9: Buy way into nobility of west country.

Step 10: Eliminate all rivals for the throne over time.

Step 11: Take power via a puppet government.

Step 12: Invade the economically and physically weakened land next door.

Step 13: Profit!



Truthfully though, personally, I'd just burn the fields one night.

People don't have to live at high elevations...if you're getting sick, move, you moron.

Knight_Of_Twilight
2007-05-16, 09:09 AM
Actually, if you enslaved the villagers instead of killing them, it'd be even better for you in the long run. Why didn't I think of this sooner? *Looks sadly at burning village*

Alright, I didn't want to have to do this, but... * Preps a smite Evil*...

( :P )

Wraithy
2007-05-16, 09:36 AM
3) "Accidently" poison all of the drugs during processing. See how long the drug ring survives without customers, and with new, and decidedly angry opponents.

might i recommend some form of super-laxative.

Really I would take this approach:
take the party and sneak into the village (a gnome illusionist in the party is preferable)
start using mage hand (rest inside barrels during the day)
cover yourselves in flour
track down a dirty looking man in a green shirt and his talking dog while they are making a large sandwich
scare them so much that they evacuate their bowels
use more illusions untill the villagers leave
if the monks are still there kill them (their own stupid fault)
kill the druglord and his paper-locust-monk-thing, oh and the wu-jen
bribe west coast authorities to let you keep the land (preferably with your "product")
result: Jinkies what a mystery

OR:
lure the tarrasque

A Gray Phantom
2007-05-16, 04:26 PM
Hold up. If there's no government on the Eastern Shores, how is it illegal? If the drugs aren't being sold in Westcountry, why do they care?

Once that scenario is already started, though I guess you need to respond to it like a mercenary job. Beat up the obvious bad guy, bring back his head, and forget the whole thing ever happened, conveniently ignoring the fact that the villagers are just going to turn around and sell the plants to someone else. Not paid enough to care.

Good question. Since it has been brought up, I suppose I'll go ahead and elaborate on the nature of the governments on the island:

N'nil, the country on the western half of the island, is a dust bowl desert land. It also happens to be infested with zombies (think Land of the Dead (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjMiDZIY1bM)). Their main income is, believe it or not, tourism. N'nil is strictly ruled by an overbearing government. The church of Wee Jas (called Anibujas in my world) has a great deal of control over the government.

Notneb, the "country" on the eastern half of the island, is ruled by chaos. A lush green wetland, the only reason why humans haven't established a true government is because of the fairies that occupy the forest - Yes, I said fairies. The forest is full of them, and they don't take too kindly to strangers moving in. However, they don't mind people "just passing through."

Since Notneb's shores have no fairies, humans have set up a few port towns. Pirates (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx1pXStX2hE) have taken advantage of the lack of law enforcement, and dock there for supplies. Supplies being food, crewmates, and various forms of contraband.

Between these two "countries" lies a mountain range. There is no specific government ruling the villages that are dispersed there. The one village in question is one of the only ones that grows the coca leaves. The leaves are sold to whomever. The contraband is then brought down through the eastern trails to the port cities, where they are sold to pirates. The pirates, in turn, spread the contraband throughout the rest of the world. Eventually, the leaves make their way back to N'nil.

Yes, a little farfetched, but still. This is the plot. Not all the leaves are sold for this purpose. There is a great deal of good that comes from the medicine in the leaves.

:smallredface: Now that the history lesson is over, you may all wake up.


The first thing I would do is determine if the villagers, and the monks that are protecting them, are aware that their crop is transformed into a deadly product thats both illegal and killing people in other lands. If they are not, they are now. Second, what are they doing to stop it? If the answer is "nothing", then they are neither lawful nor good. For their crime in knowingly perpetrating such a pestilential crime upon their far off neighbors, my sentence upon them is to visit the village well one evening.

I am not so strict when it comes to alignments. To me, lawful can be a strict adherence to the law, a code of conduct one follows, or even a style or philosophy one devotes to. I reason that monks are lawful because the have a rigid code of training which develops a particular fighting style: whether it be reverse crane, twisting tiger, drunken boxing, or whatever (and the subsequent philosophies that follow). True, the product can be manufactured into a harmful substance, but it is also a medicine. Is the man who crafts weapons evil because many of his blades are used to kill people?

:smalleek: Okay, that's actually a bad example. Nevertheless, the monks choose to protect the village with the best of intentions. No, they aren't perfect, and they might not meet all the standards of lawful good. I'm allowing that.

Mediating with the monks through peaceful palaver is an open option that I'm allowing to anyone who makes the attempt :smallwink:. Some of the monks don't realize the damage that the leaves are inflicting on others. Other monks are simply in denial.

If you hadn't guessed, I'm a HUGE fan of Trigun. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5eQdoQ-jU8&mode=related&search=) I love how they use moral ambiguity on that show. "Oh, goodness, maybe he isn't such a bad guy after all! Whatever will I do?"

I've always wanted to instill a sense of internal moral dispute in my players. I've done it a few times, but without a subtle touch:

"That church over there has something we want. Is it wrong to simply go in and kill everyone, then burn it down to make it look like an accident?"

"Wait, those Gnomes have the blueprints to the dungeon we're about to enter! Is it wrong to kill them, bury them, and then loot the dungeon without so much as breaking a sweat?"

I get tickled pink when I see the reactions of my players:

LG Ranger: ":smallyuk: Murder is wrong!"
LE Ninja: ":smallsigh: Meh... I'm all for burning down the church. It'll save us time on that stupid 'spiritual journey' they want us to go on."
Neutral Druid: ":smallconfused: I'm fine with either choice. I'm not too fond of Wee Jas."
LG Soldier: ":smallmad: I follow the will of Pharoh, and she'd be sorely disapointed in such actions."
NG Bard: ":smalleek: I'm going to run and hide and not form any opinon!"

Yeah, the bard actually did that. She's a little new at the game, and wasn't sure how to express her alignment. She made up for it later when she saved one of them gnomes with said blueprints...

Edit:

Alternatively:
1. Ask the drug baron not to sell to anyone in Westcountry - doesn't look like a big part of his operation and he may comply for an easy life, or

2. Legalise the drug and tax it.

Legalize the drug and tax it... That sounds like a great idea, too. If there weren't extenuating circumstances preventing that, I'd totally be for that idea!

Nahal
2007-05-16, 08:41 PM
I have a few ideas, which may well be similar to others already posted.

1: Kill 'em all. Let the gods sort 'em out. (A couple of the groups I've played with would probably choose this option)

2: Poisoning the drug supply is also fun, but ENCHANTING it, now that's just funny. Try permanent image to make it look like the crop's gone, or continual flame so the wizard can nuke the site from orbit (or say 400ft up). Sadly the party isn't high-enough level to cast PaO, otherwise the possibilities would be endless (I'd vote turning the crop into banana slugs, myself. Or the leaves into Rosemary. Hard to make drugs out of Rosemary).

3: Kill the mobster, animate his corpse, and make that misguided monk fight his ex-mentor. Have the bard add dramatic theme music. Make sure to buff the zombie so it lasts longer.

ClericofPhwarrr
2007-05-16, 10:37 PM
Alright, I didn't want to have to do this, but... * Preps a smite Evil*...

( :P )

:smalleek:

Oh wait, I'm chaotic neutral! Heavy on the chaotic! Whew.

Though after this sort of action... I think chaotic stupid would be more applicable :smallwink:.

Knight_Of_Twilight
2007-05-16, 11:10 PM
:smalleek:

Oh wait, I'm chaotic neutral! Heavy on the chaotic! Whew.

Though after this sort of action... I think chaotic stupid would be more applicable :smallwink:.

Chaotic Neutral...Darn...I'll need to take levels in Gray Guard!

GRR. I be a surly Paladin. :miko:

goat
2007-05-18, 12:43 PM
Oh, oh God, I just had a thought.

If you cast Shrink Item on drugs, and then someone takes what they think is a "normal" dose, can you get them to have a hideous overdose?

Dan_Hemmens
2007-05-19, 10:46 AM
This sounds like a perfectly good quest set up, but for the love of god don't get it into the head that you're doing something which challenges conventions or defies expectations.

By your own admission, the situation is actually caused by some evil drug dealers who need to be killed. It's about as morally ambiguous as Kittens Versus Hitler.

The correct answer is: don't kill villagers, do kill drug dealers. Easy. It's not a challenge, it's not a moral question. It's a straight up quest. Don't congratulate yourself so loudly.

A Gray Phantom
2007-05-20, 03:04 PM
This sounds like a perfectly good quest set up, but for the love of god don't get it into the head that you're doing something which challenges conventions or defies expectations.

By your own admission, the situation is actually caused by some evil drug dealers who need to be killed. It's about as morally ambiguous as Kittens Versus Hitler.

The correct answer is: don't kill villagers, do kill drug dealers. Easy. It's not a challenge, it's not a moral question. It's a straight up quest. Don't congratulate yourself so loudly.

I wasn't.


Chaotic Neutral...Darn...I'll need to take levels in Gray Guard!

GRR. I be a surly Paladin. :miko:

I am rather ticked that the Complete Scoundrel couldn't come up with a better prestige class for the paladin. Why does being lawful have to mean being serious and ticked off all the time? Why can't we have a silly paladin? Like this lawful good wizard! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJCtOz32dnw&mode=related&search=)

Illiterate Scribe
2007-05-20, 03:12 PM
Organise a mass-leaflet drop with purified exlosive runes spells? That way all the baddies heads a'splode, while all the nice villagers are fine. It's like a nuclear weapon that only kills orphan-haters.

Basically, DESTRUCTION is the way to solve most problems.

Green Bean
2007-05-20, 03:24 PM
Organise a mass-leaflet drop with purified exlosive runes spells? That way all the baddies heads a'splode, while all the nice villagers are fine. It's like a nuclear weapon that only kills orphan-haters.

Basically, DESTRUCTION is the way to solve most problems.

Or, if price is an issue, put some of that 'evil only' poison from the BoED in the town well.