Heartwarder Vs Swiftblade Volume 2..

[Masakan]

So after god knows how many months. I finally got something solid for a character I've been creating. Now all that's left are where they go after they hit the level 10 mark.
Let me explain, all the research i have been doing all the questions I've been asking. They were all to make her combat capable, meaning she's not the best fighter in the world but more than capable of taking care of herself.
Her real role would be the party face, the diplomat, the negotiator, the one that can talk their way to of situations whenever the party does something stupid....and the character who can belly dance her way into a corrupt politicians mansion and dig up whatever dark secrets she can find.
Basically the whole origin of this character is me thinking...what would happen if i took the personalities of Bayonetta, Shantae and Xiaomu and meshed them all together? My friends without skipping a beat said that "You would probably need a lot of condoms" but I digress.

This is basically because I realized that if you center your build around having to get those 2 feats then the tax isn't that bad..that and when you look at slippers of battle dancing, it's clear they intended for them to be used with something like spring attack.
So yeah the chassis for the first 10 levels is prepped
5 Levels in Bard
1 level in Battle dancer at 2
1 level in Swordsage at 7
3 levels in Jade Phoenix mage for Arcane Wrath and prereq's
now where to go after that?

Swiftblade focuses more on the combat side of the build allowing you to move lightning fast at blinding speed, high speed and damage but loses out on level 6 spells
Heartwarder focuses more on the caster side, amplifying her DC's and social abilities as well as any charisma based skilled which is pretty much all of her(she's very SAD on charisma) She gets access to level 6 spells, but her combat prowess ends up lacking.

Remember it HAS to be between these 2. I know the merits for both and I've given my logic for both of them. Admittedly I'm leaning towards Heart-warder But I know Swiftblade is legendarily good.and before anyone says anything i'm just gonna say this right now. There is no way a reasonable DM would force me to get a feat for something that I already know how to use.

Anyway Thoughts opinions, Just want peoples view points on this, regardless of whether I agree or not.

[ZamielVanWeber]

I would vote Heartwarder. Swiftblade's locking your third level spells into haste hurts (assuming your DM doesn't let you hide in your backstory). I have no idea if this character has already been built or not so I cannot say.
Heartwarder also has the advantage of cutting your spells further which is good.
Swiftblade does work nicely with Snowflake Wardance though.

Honestly it depends on where you see yourself going with this. If you want to focus on music, out of combat utility, and spells, while saving your melee for emergencies, heartwader will serve you well.
If you see yourself mixing it up in melee more often than not choose swiftblade.

[Masakan]

I would vote Heartwarder. Swiftblade's locking your third level spells into haste hurts (assuming your DM doesn't let you hide in your backstory). I have no idea if this character has already been built or not so I cannot say.
Heartwarder also has the advantage of cutting your spells further which is good.
Swiftblade does work nicely with Snowflake Wardance though.

Honestly it depends on where you see yourself going with this. If you want to focus on music, out of combat utility, and spells, while saving your melee for emergencies, heartwader will serve you well.
If you see yourself mixing it up in melee more often than not choose swiftblade.
Yeah that's basically the route I wanna go, avoid fighting if you can, be able to fight when you have to. Also I REALLY wanted Snowflake wardance, but couldn't get it to fit.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Yeah that's basically the route I wanna go, avoid fighting if you can, be able to fight when you have to. Also I REALLY wanted Snowflake wardance, but couldn't get it to fit.

Then heartwarder is definitely the choice for you. Swiftblade is all about making a strong combatant. Heartwarder provides a lot more utility (and those Cha buffs will certainly help with the Cha synergy you have).

[Grod_The_Giant]

Having missed previous threads... is there a reason not to stick with Jade Phoenix Mage? Heartwarder doesn't seem that good (apart from +5 Charisma and full casting, none of the abilities seem that interesting. Swiftblade is good, but you've already lost two caster levels... and I'll be honest, I suspect that the strikes you'll get through JPM will be more dangerous than the amped-up haste from Swiftblade. Finish out with three levels of Swiftblade.

But if you're only open to the two?...why not both? Go Swiftblade 3/Heartwarder 7. That gives you the best benefit of Swiftblade (quickened haste, fun for the whole party!) while dodging most of the CL loss. You'll wind up with 17th level casting and... +13 BAB, which isn't great for a gish but isn't that far behind a straight medium BAB. (You could do better by dipping Warblade instead of Swordsage)

[Masakan]

Having missed previous threads... is there a reason not to stick with Jade Phoenix Mage? Heartwarder doesn't seem that good (apart from +5 Charisma and full casting, none of the abilities seem that interesting. Swiftblade is good, but you've already lost two caster levels... and I'll be honest, I suspect that the strikes you'll get through JPM will be more dangerous than the amped-up haste from Swiftblade. Finish out with three levels of Swiftblade.

But if you're only open to the two?...why not both? Go Swiftblade 3/Heartwarder 7. That gives you the best benefit of Swiftblade (quickened haste, fun for the whole party!) while dodging most of the CL loss. You'll wind up with 17th level casting and... +13 BAB, which isn't great for a gish but isn't that far behind a straight medium BAB. (You could do better by dipping Warblade instead of Swordsage)

One I want this character to be a student of Desert wind and 2 Arcane Wrath and mystic phoenix stance are the only things from JPM I actually care about since I'm insistent on getting spring attack asap that way I can just frontload all the damage.

However you do make an interesting point of going Swiftblade 3/Heartwarder 7 That would also give me a few more Skill points to work with. Oh and check your math it would leave me with 16th level casting which still gets me level 6's though.
Remember what I said, in my OP. I want a character who is the party face, with combat being a secondary focus.
I also want magic to be an option not the solution. But yes you have definitely made a good point with your suggestion and I will consider it

[Grod_The_Giant]

One I want this character to be a student of Desert wind and 2 Arcane Wrath and mystic phoenix stance are the only things from JPM I actually care about since I'm insistent on getting spring attack asap that way I can just frontload all the damage.
But after that you seem to be interested in gish ability, correct? Hence the Swiftblade? Taking the rest of JPM means you don't have to worry about more pre-reqs, and you get full BAB and good casting. And Quickening Strike, which is real nice for a spells-and-sword character. JPM also has more face skills on the list than Swiftblade. You can still get Desert Wind Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack normally, if you'd like, and they'll still come online earlier than Swiftblade.

(You're right on the math, though-- I missed a a non-casting level somewhere)

[Masakan]

But after that you seem to be interested in gish ability, correct? Hence the Swiftblade? Taking the rest of JPM means you don't have to worry about more pre-reqs, and you get full BAB and good casting. And Quickening Strike, which is real nice for a spells-and-sword character. JPM also has more face skills on the list than Swiftblade. You can still get Desert Wind Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack normally, if you'd like, and they'll still come online earlier than Swiftblade.

(You're right on the math, though-- I missed a a non-casting level somewhere)
The only thing is any face skill that JPM has I probably already gotten by the time i get into it.
The thing is i have been told time and again how ****ty dodge and mobility are as feats, so since i feel i have to get them for my build to work...I wanna make sure I get as much mileage out of them as i can. And yes Elusive target is part of my build. I would be doing a huge disservice to myself if i didn't get that thing.

[Grod_The_Giant]

The only thing is any face skill that JPM has I probably already gotten by the time i get into it.
But class skills still matter for how expensive cross-class skills are. Unless you took Able Learner or have a houserule.

The thing is i have been told time and again how ****ty dodge and mobility are as feats, so since i feel i have to get them for my build to work...I wanna make sure I get as much mileage out of them as i can. And yes Elusive target is part of my build. I would be doing a huge disservice to myself if i didn't get that thing.
Eh... It's not a huge deal, especially if you can talk your GM into letting it work with strikes. What ARE you using it for?

[Masakan]

But class skills still matter for how expensive cross-class skills are. Unless you took Able Learner or have a houserule.

Eh... It's not a huge deal, especially if you can talk your GM into letting it work with strikes. What ARE you using it for?

Elusive Target? Survivability.

[Snowbluff]

The only thing is any face skill that JPM has I probably already gotten by the time i get into it.
The thing is i have been told time and again how ****ty dodge and mobility are as feats, so since i feel i have to get them for my build to work...I wanna make sure I get as much mileage out of them as i can. And yes Elusive target is part of my build. I would be doing a huge disservice to myself if i didn't get that thing.

Dodge and Mobility suck, but when doing a Swiftblade/Abjurant Champion build, you have most of the feats for Spelldancer you need. :smalltongue:

[Masakan]

Dodge and Mobility suck, but when doing a Swiftblade/Abjurant Champion build, you have most of the feats for Spelldancer you need. :smalltongue:
I already have a character running abjurant champion and I don't want my characters to be too....samey you know?