3.5 Optimized Core Mundane

[LordOfCain]

What is a good optimized core mundane build with out any splatbooks or anything?

[ZamielVanWeber]

Gonna be honest here, I am not sure such a thing exists. Mundanes were given precious few options in core (unlike magic types) and many of them underwhelming. I suppose you could take fighter for a few levels to grab Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, and Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain) and try to lock down an area as best you can. As you go up in levels it will become less and less effective as creatures get bigger and stronger (ending up with some massive modifiers to trip). You can add barbarian in for the strength bonus off of rage to help.

Leaving core gives so many fun things to mundanes and opens up a lot of options, so I am not 100% sure why you want to stick to core.

[gorfnab]

I'm in agreement with ZamielVanWeber. Almost all of the best options for mundane builds are found outside of core.
The best core mundane build I've seen so far is The Horizon Tripper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?80415-The-Horizon-Tripper-%28Core-Melee-Build%29).

[Troacctid]

Rogue is also solid if you make good use of UMD and other WBL-mancy. Pick up a Shadowdancer dip to hide in plain sight.

[AvatarVecna]

It's not a combat build, but a Venerable Human Rogue 20 with Leadership and Nymph's Kiss who focuses on Knowledge and social skills can be pretty awesome...as long as it's not a combat-focused game, which most D&D games are. They could be the leader of a criminal organization, or the mayor...wait, that's the same thing. Anyway...

[ZamielVanWeber]

It's not a combat build, but a Venerable Human Rogue 20 with Leadership and Nymph's Kiss who focuses on Knowledge and social skills can be pretty awesome...as long as it's not a combat-focused game, which most D&D games are. They could be the leader of a criminal organization, or the mayor...wait, that's the same thing. Anyway...

Nymph's Kiss isn't core. Outside of core a fun and useful mundane is perfectly doable. Inside core...

[Grod_The_Giant]

A splash of fighter for feats and armor, and a bunch of rogue for sneak attack dice and skill points?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Why do people still insist on playing core only in 3.5? I'd think those people would've moved on to 5e by now.

Being able to contribute and do interesting things in a core only setting requires a fairly low optimization level and will be increasingly dependent on WBL instead of character class as your level increases.

[TheCrowing1432]

Core only games are awful for mundanes.


Most of the best feats that make them playable are found in outside sources, Complete Warrior being a good start.


Inside core, they have the Improved (trip, grapple, bullrush, disarm) Weapon Focus, and Weapon Specialization and not much else.

Your cross classing options arent that attractive as none of the core mundanes work all that well together without ACF's. Other then the standard two level dip for fighter.

[Rubik]

The best Core-only mundane build is the T-Rex animal companion of the party druid.

[mabriss lethe]

Some of your best core only mundane options are likely to stem from skill use:
Things like Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Handle Animal can all be very useful for a mundane character.(I'm omitting UMD simply because it crosses the Mundane line)

[AvatarVecna]

Nymph's Kiss isn't core. Outside of core a fun and useful mundane is perfectly doable. Inside core...

Taking out Nymph's Kiss, you're still getting 13 skill points per level before the age and level bonuses to Int come into play. The build is still solid without NK.

[Anthrowhale]

You can't really create an effective straight-up fighter, but a sneaky/charismatic type seems reasonably viable.

Consider a Grig (Fly 40' poor, Tiny, Str-6, Dex+8, Con+2, Wis+2, Chr+4, Low-light, SR 17+class levels, Weapon Finesse, Dodge), taking Monk 2 (IUS, AC, Evasion, Deflect Arrows), Fighter 2 (Extra Feat*2), Rogue 13 (Sneak Attack 7d6, Evasion, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Skill Mastery, Improved Evasion).

For Skills: Diplomacy, Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Bluff, Tumble, Disguise, Speak Language

For Feats: Negotiator, Flyby Attack, Rapid Shot, Leadership, Far Shot, Hover, Point Blank Shot (Fighter), Improved Init (Fighter), IUS(Monk), Deflect Arrows(Monk), Weapon Finess (Pixie), Dodge (Pixie).

For abilities, have a high Dex and Chr.

You have good initiative.

Use Diplomacy to make friends. A rushed (full-round action) skill mastery Diplomacy (36 = 20[ranks]+2[bluff synergy]+2[K[royalty] synergy]+2[sense motive synergy]+2[negotiator]+8[chr]+10(skill mastery)-10(rushed)) can reliably turn hostile creatures friendly or indifferent creatures helpful.

Use Stealth or Disguise where you can't Diplomacy. Note the +8 to Hide from being Tiny.

If you must cause damage, use Flyby attack to snipe with cover. Hopefully they can't even spot you to return fire, and you take advantage of flight to stay out of melee. Deflect arrows helps limit damage.

The spell resistance which presumably scales as character level+17 is one of the best in the game and substantially helps you resist enemy spells.

Obviously DR 5/Cold Iron and SLAs are pretty useful if you can get them(I've ignored) or a good excuse to lower the level adjustment (+3) if you can't.

[bean illus]

My go to core mundane is the human rogue/fighter tripper, heavy on UMD. If SRD is allowed use MartialRogue , ThugFighter and Passive Way monk to get extra skill points, 10 feats in 6 levels, and great saves. ABSOLUTELY spiked chain and enlarge person.

HW certainly is a great top for this.

[Grod_The_Giant]

HW certainly is a great top for this.
Horizon Walker and Dragon Disciple are the only really decent options for high-level mundanes in Core, honestly. (Unless you count Assassin). Maaaybe Shadowdancer on a sneaky ranger, but losing Sneak Attack doesn't help a rogue any.

[Elkad]

Why do people still insist on playing core only in 3.5? I'd think those people would've moved on to 5e by now.

Core 3.5 is free (granted, the rest is too, in the shadowy corners of the internet). Oh, and bonus points for the existence of the SRD, as it is far more functional than dead-tree format.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Core 3.5 is free (granted, the rest is too, in the shadowy corners of the internet). Oh, and bonus points for the existence of the SRD, as it is far more functional than dead-tree format.

Just core isn't free. Psionic and UA are also on there which alone massively expand options.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Core 3.5 is free (granted, the rest is too, in the shadowy corners of the internet). Oh, and bonus points for the existence of the SRD, as it is far more functional than dead-tree format.


Just core isn't free. Psionic and UA are also on there which alone massively expand options.

The SRD is nice. I take recourse to the online version, http://d20srd.org, whenever I want to quickly look up something from the core rules. However, WotC deliberately left a few important elements out of the SRD to make you buy the actual books for those bits. They also wiped a lot of product identity elements (I like mindflayers :smallfrown:) from it as well.

Nevertheless, I still don't see the point of sticking to core only. Little as I care for the changes paizo made, I'd still rather play an expansive pathfinder game over core only and -all- of their stuff is legit' free.

In a system deliberately designed to reward system mastery, discarding all but the most basic elements of the system just seems like folly to me.

[LudicSavant]

What is a good optimized core mundane build with out any splatbooks or anything?

Rogues are probably your best bet.

[emeraldstreak]

Friday discount UMD wizards. Leadership. Diplomacy. Those are the only half-good options.

As for the half-bad, add Paladin with Gold Dragon mount (per the alternative DMG rules).