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Grey Watcher
2007-05-15, 11:31 PM
I made these a while ago. Here they are for your use and consumption. Ease of Use is now, well, useless, since Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting (Complete Adventurer, p. 111) steals its thunder.


I began work on these feats with the idea of a finesse-based fighter using a longsword. Since there wasn't (that I knew of) a way to support this build, I made one. They are rather feat intensive, and Graceful Wielding and Ease of Use are pretty much limited to Fighters, as I feared they'd be a tad TOO useful to Rogues, Wizards, and such.

Graceful Wielding

Prerequisites: Str 13+, Dex 13+, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (selected weapon), Weapon Proficiency (selected weapon), Weapon Specialization (selected Weapon)

Benefit: When taking this feat, you may select a single one-handed or double weapon that cannot normally benefit from the Weapon Finesse feat. You may now use this weapon in conjunction with Weapon Finesse. This benefit only applies when wielding the weapon one-handed, or, in the case of double weapons, when using both ends of the weapon. This feat does NOT grant any other bonuses associated with light weapons, such as lessened penalties for two-weapon fighting.

Special:
You make take this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat, it applies to a new type of weapon for which you qualify.

A figher may select Graceful Wielding as one of his or her bonus feats.



Ease of Use

Prerequisites: Str 13+, Dex 13+, Graceful Wielding (selected weapon), Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (selected weapon), Weapon Proficiency (selected weapon), Weapon Specialization (selected Weapon)

Benefit: When taking this feat, you may select a single one-handed weapon for which you have already taken Graceful Wielding. You may now treat this weapon as a light weapon for all purposes, including two-weapon fighting, class abilities, and other uses. You may still wield the weapon with two hands for increased damage. Effectively, the weapon is either light or non-light, depending on the wielder's desire.

Special:
You make take this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat, it applies to a new type of weapon for which you qualify.

A figher may select Ease of Use as one of his or her bonus feats.



Armed Deflect Arrows

Prerequisites: BAB 1+. Weapon Finesse

Benefit: When wielding any weapon compatible with Weapon Finesse, the wielder may use the weapon to bat aside incoming arrows, much as an unarmed character using the Deflect Arrows feat. As with Deflect Arrows, you may only bat aside one ranged attack per round, and you may not bat aside unusually large projectiles.

Special: A fighter may select Armed Deflect Arrows as one of his or her bonus feats.




Rapid Deflection

Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes and either Armed Deflect Arrows OR Deflect Arrows

Benefit: You may use your Armed Deflect Arrows or Deflect Arrows feat multiple times in a single round. You may knock aside an additional number of projectiles per round equal to your Dexterity modifier.

Special: A fighter may take Rapid Deflection as one of his or her bonus feats.



Rapid Attack

Prerequisite: Dex 13, BAB 6+

Benefit: When making a full attack with a melee weapon, you may make an extra attack per round, at your highest base attack bonus, but all attacks in that round, including the extra attack suffer a -2 penalty. This feat can stack with other effects, such as class features, which grant a similar effect, but the penalties also stack.

Special: A fighter may take Rapid Attack as one of his or her bonus feats.

MethodicalMeat
2007-05-15, 11:36 PM
Ooh, I like graceful weilding, I was actually wondering how I could work something like that out last night.

Magi_Ring_O
2007-05-16, 08:33 PM
Graceful wielding is definitely overdue. I'm surprised no one else has done that yet.

Matthew
2007-05-20, 07:24 PM
Rapid Attack kind of steals the Monk's thunder.

Grey Watcher
2007-05-20, 08:47 PM
Rapid Attack kind of steals the Monk's thunder.

That's why I made it stackable with Flurry of Blows. If an insane number of attacks per round is your thing, you can be a Monk and still take that feat. Still perhaps you're right. Truth be told, Graceful Wielding was the initial idea that I had, and I just let my muse ramble on after that.

Hazkali
2007-05-21, 05:58 AM
Truth be told, Graceful Wielding was the initial idea that I had, and I just let my muse ramble on after that.


Your muse was watching Star Wars at the time, no? :smallwink:

I like these feats, especially Graceful wielding. It works very well with elves, coupling their high Dex and racial Longsword proficiency, so I think it'll have much interest from one of my players (our group's elfophile).

RMS Oceanic
2007-05-21, 06:38 AM
How does Rapid Attack work with Two-Weapon Fighting? Do you pick which weapon you make the attack with? Does it stack with speed or haste?

Other than that, I like these feats. I wonder if I could get my DM to allow them sometime...

Grey Watcher
2007-05-21, 08:42 AM
How does Rapid Attack work with Two-Weapon Fighting? Do you pick which weapon you make the attack with? Does it stack with speed or haste?

...Good question. To be honest, I hadn't considered either of those. I'm tempted to say it's with the main weapon, not the off-hand weapon (since extra off-hand attacks are what Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and like are for). As for Haste... well, my initial wording would indicate "yes, it does stack." But I shudder at the amount of cheese that opens up. So I suppose the sensible answer would be "No, it doesn't stack." I'll have to muse on that point a little longer.


Your muse was watching Star Wars at the time, no? :smallwink:

I like these feats, especially Graceful wielding. It works very well with elves, coupling their high Dex and racial Longsword proficiency, so I think it'll have much interest from one of my players (our group's elfophile).

Actually my inspiration came from Quest for Glory. There's a character named Elsa von Spielburg who wields a longsword and wears what probably translates into DnD as a chain shirt and no shield. She's clearly a finesse fighter, but the RAW doesn't support being a finesse fighter with a longsword. So I made a rule that made it possible. Besides, while I don't know Star Wars d20 at all, wouldn't a lightsaber BE a finessable weapon to start with?

freeze43
2007-05-22, 11:13 AM
Would it be wrong to have graceful weilding for a two-handed non-double weapon?

I have been trying to tech out a Fighter/Duelist with his focus entirely on the Falchion (yes, it's a little overpowered but I like the way his melee focuses on precise shots and critical hits over big, ugly smashes the way fighters often do.

elliott20
2007-05-22, 12:50 PM
I like the concept of graceful wielding. However, I think the wording could use some work. Because the basic rules of weapon finesse is that it has to be a light weapon. Wouldn't it be more intuitive to simply allow you to use the feat one category larger? (As to include all medium weapons)

Because the way it's worded it's actually rather limiting.

Matthew
2007-05-24, 08:09 PM
That's why I made it stackable with Flurry of Blows. If an insane number of attacks per round is your thing, you can be a Monk and still take that feat. Still perhaps you're right. Truth be told, Graceful Wielding was the initial idea that I had, and I just let my muse ramble on after that.
I see. What I would be inclined to do is make a Flurry of Blows type Feat that doesn't stack with Flurry of Blows, but does stack with Two Weapon Fighting so you would end up with the attack pattern:


Fighter 01: -3 / -3 / -3
Fighter 06: +2 / +2 / +2 / -3 / -3 / -3
Fighter 11: +7 / +7 / +7 / +2 / +2 / +2 / -3 / -3 / -3

and if you allowed Perfected Two Weapon Fighting at Level 16:

Fighter 16: +12 / +12 / +12 / +7 / +7 / +7 / +2 / +2 / +2 / -3 / -3 / -3
Fighter 20: +16 / +16 / +16 / +11 / +11 / +11 / +6 / +6 / +6 / +1 / +1 / +1

Rapid Strike / Improved Rapid Strike / Greater Rapid Strike / Perfected Rapid Strike
Two Weapon Fighting / Improved Two Weapon Fighting / Greater Two Weapon Fighting / Perfected Two Weapon Fighting

I have no real objection to a Feat that makes it possible to Finesse other Weapons, so long as it is balanced by a Feat that allows a Character to use Strength for Ranged Attacks...

Grey Watcher
2007-05-24, 09:19 PM
I have no real objection to a Feat that makes it possible to Finesse other Weapons, so long as it is balanced by a Feat that allows a Character to use Strength for Ranged Attacks...

Well, there are the feats Brutal Throw and Power Throw from Complete Adventurer. Granted, those are for thrown weapons only, but my feats for one-handed and double weapons only (no finessing that Greatsword, sorry).

Matthew
2007-05-24, 09:21 PM
Heh, yes, I was actually addressing Freeze43 with that comment. Damn the absence of Multi Quote!

Grey Watcher
2007-05-24, 09:35 PM
I like the concept of graceful wielding. However, I think the wording could use some work. Because the basic rules of weapon finesse is that it has to be a light weapon. Wouldn't it be more intuitive to simply allow you to use the feat one category larger? (As to include all medium weapons)

Because the way it's worded it's actually rather limiting.

Well, if you will note, each time you take the feat, it only applies to a single type of weapon. Thus, you can learn to finesse a longsword using this feat, but, unless you take the feat a second time, it won't help you in the least if all that's handy is a battleaxe. Somehow, using a single feat to expand Weapon Finesse to all one-handed and double weapons seemed a little too much.

Also, I wanted to avoid the potential strangeness of being able to take this feat with a finesseable weapon, like a rapier.

Oh, and freeze43, while I generally wouldn't think a two-handed, non-double weapon would work, I'm sure your DM could allow it if you give up the 1.5x Strength bonus, extra Power Attack damage, etc. (effectively the weapon would work like one-handed weapon, but would still take up the off-hand slot).

Dryad
2007-05-24, 09:59 PM
Monkey grip, ease of use.. Here I am with my two greatswords. (Admittedly, a -4 penalty on attack rolls, and only single handed dmg, but still. 2d6 per hand!)

I do love the ideas, though. I really do! But look out for players wanting to go monkey-grip... (I do believe that feat is broken and silly, anyway.)

Matthew
2007-05-25, 06:46 AM
Dryad: That's not how the 3.5 Monkey Grip works! (went the battle cry). A Character can Monkey Grip one Large Long sword in your Primary Hand, but not a Medium Great Sword, it just doesn't work that way. Furthermore, Monkey grip doesn't work with the Off hand, how stupid is that? In any case the penalties to hit far outweigh the bonus to damage.

Greywatcher: I don't think Freeze43 is talking about making a Two Handed Weapon a One Handed Weapon by way of Finesse, just using Dexterity in place of Strength...?

Grey Watcher
2007-05-25, 10:33 AM
Greywatcher: I don't think Freeze43 is talking about making a Two Handed Weapon a One Handed Weapon by way of Finesse, just using Dexterity in place of Strength...?

Well, right, it would still take two hands to wield, I just can't see finessing the weapon AND getting the usual benefits associated with a two-handed weapon (increased Str modifier to damage, better return on Power Attack, etc.). You still need the other hand to guide and balance such a large weapon, but you can't put the same force into it and still finesse the weapon. Of course, I'd rather avoid the whole mess and just say "no, you can't finesse a two-handed weapon," but, if I were DMing and player had his heart set on the idea, that would be the tradeoff I'd force him to make. He can switch back and forth as much as he likes, but he can't finesse and do extra strength-based damage at the sime time.

Matthew
2007-05-25, 10:50 AM
Interesting. I just don't see it as a big deal. If he's paying a Feat to get his Dexterity Bonus rather than Strength with one particular Weapon (Two Handed or not), where's the harm? It takes two Feats for him to get to that point and his Strength Attribute would have to be very similar to his Dexterity for the Damage Multiplier to matter . There might be an argument for limiting [I]Power Attack in this context, but why bother? If you don't get the benefits of Power Attack and Weapon Finesse together there seems little point in spending three Feats to get there, never mind the five that it actually takes as your feat is written. Okay, so the Rapier would be a bit outclassed by way of these feats, but isn't that what Feats are supposed to do [i.e. kick things up a notch]. The Elven [Insert Sword Names Here] already do exactly this and with considerably less effort.