Schodinger's tomb

[ganondorf50]

I have had a idea for a while to screw with the players and call it schodinger's tomb. This would not be your normal dungeon crawl this would be more of a psocological thing. I have a room with a illusion basilisk that rotates towards them. (The room spins.)
I have the cat in the box at the end obviously.
Other ideas

Have them defeat monsters and ask is it really dead

As well as they think they leave the tomb and have will saves for them to disbelive

Chinese finger trap you enter the door and you see a room like stealing the door shut behind you and just peers inside of the room is a button in the center as you enter the room the spiked ceiling begins to send you hit the button the spiked ceiling acsends. This goes on back-and-forth until the party realizes that they need to not hit the button. The realization is that the spike well will probably kill us only last second to shoot back up into the ceiling and the door appears

However I want traps to screw with the player and have a moderate chance of hurting them. Any other ideas?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

[torrasque666]

Illusionary Bridge over an Illusionary Pit. Illusionary Sign saying the bridge is fake is right in the middle of it. Will save to disbelieve the sign is real. Succeed at that, and you're fine. Fail, and save to believe the bridge isn't real. Fail, and save to believe that they aren't falling.


Suddenly realize that the entire dungeon has been illusion layered over illusion over illusions to the Nth degree. Or better yet, the entire campaign...

[Inevitability]

A room made out of comatose Gelatinous Cubes covered with illusions to make them look like walls.

[Strigon]

Once they've gotten the idea of illusory everything, a very real dragon guarding illusory treasure!

[ganondorf50]

Once they've gotten the idea of illusory everything, a very real dragon guarding illusory treasure!

Im thinking he should hide a Macguffin but yes illusion treasure sounds awesome

[martixy]

A badly illusioned pit that's fairly easy to spot(so as not to arouse suspicion) and easy to jump over, but on the other side there's a wall of invisible gelatinous cubes. Put it in the beginning of the dungeon to make it seem like it's a beginner's challenge just to start things off.

P.S. Also, it's "Schrödinger".

[Draconium]

How about the dragon is the Macguffin, under the influence of a Polymorph Any Object? One that triggers via Contingency as soon as the party enters the treasure room? That could make things interesting.

[BowStreetRunner]

The party enters a dungeon through a teleportation circle that actually transports each party member to a different yet almost identical section of the dungeon. In each the character is joined by an illusory duplicate of each of the other party members so to them they all appear to have arrived at the same destination together. (Note that even if they manage to disbelieve the illusory copies they will still see them, allowing them to continue to communicate but now realizing they are not all physically together.) As they continue they will encounter various challenges, however each challenge is only real in one of the regions and illusory in each other.

In essence they are each in their own solo dungeon but they are all experiencing these at the same time. A wall, a monster, or even a trap might exist in one region but only be illusory in all of the others. Only one character is actually facing the challenge while the others are facing illusory copies of the same challenge. A fight with a group of orcs might even have one real orc for each of them but they all see all of the orcs, not just their own. (Note that the orcs would have to make their own saves against the illusion to determine which adventurer is real.)

[illyahr]

The party enters a dungeon through a teleportation circle that actually transports each party member to a different yet almost identical section of the dungeon. In each the character is joined by an illusory duplicate of each of the other party members so to them they all appear to have arrived at the same destination together. (Note that even if they manage to disbelieve the illusory copies they will still see them, allowing them to continue to communicate but now realizing they are not all physically together.) As they continue they will encounter various challenges, however each challenge is only real in one of the regions and illusory in each other.

In essence they are each in their own solo dungeon but they are all experiencing these at the same time. A wall, a monster, or even a trap might exist in one region but only be illusory in all of the others. Only one character is actually facing the challenge while the others are facing illusory copies of the same challenge. A fight with a group of orcs might even have one real orc for each of them but they all see all of the orcs, not just their own. (Note that the orcs would have to make their own saves against the illusion to determine which adventurer is real.)

This...this is beautiful.... :smalleek:

Can I use this idea? :smallbiggrin:

[ZamielVanWeber]

Once they've gotten the idea of illusory everything, a very real dragon guarding illusory treasure!
Tome dragons are good for this due to their extremely good caster level to CR ratio and ability to metamagic on the fly at a reduced cost. I once had an a great wyrm Astral projection guard permanent image treasure. The party was not happy, especially when the real one showed up to berate them.



P.S. Also, it's "Schrödinger".

Schroedinger is also acceptable because umlaut.

[legomaster00156]

The party enters a dungeon through a teleportation circle that actually transports each party member to a different yet almost identical section of the dungeon. In each the character is joined by an illusory duplicate of each of the other party members so to them they all appear to have arrived at the same destination together. (Note that even if they manage to disbelieve the illusory copies they will still see them, allowing them to continue to communicate but now realizing they are not all physically together.) As they continue they will encounter various challenges, however each challenge is only real in one of the regions and illusory in each other.

In essence they are each in their own solo dungeon but they are all experiencing these at the same time. A wall, a monster, or even a trap might exist in one region but only be illusory in all of the others. Only one character is actually facing the challenge while the others are facing illusory copies of the same challenge. A fight with a group of orcs might even have one real orc for each of them but they all see all of the orcs, not just their own. (Note that the orcs would have to make their own saves against the illusion to determine which adventurer is real.)
This is a genius idea in theory, but I'm just not sure how it would actually play out at a real table.

[Sacrieur]

Illusionary Bridge over an Illusionary Pit. Illusionary Sign saying the bridge is fake is right in the middle of it. Will save to disbelieve the sign is real. Succeed at that, and you're fine. Fail, and save to believe the bridge isn't real. Fail, and save to believe that they aren't falling.


Suddenly realize that the entire dungeon has been illusion layered over illusion over illusions to the Nth degree. Or better yet, the entire campaign...

A bridge that's both real and fake simultaneously until someone observes which it is, at which point the bridge is either real or fake.

[BowStreetRunner]

This...this is beautiful.... :smalleek:

Can I use this idea? :smallbiggrin:

Feel free to do so. Just not in a game where I am playing, okay? :smallwink:


This is a genius idea in theory, but I'm just not sure how it would actually play out at a real table.

I should think that some characters might figure out the base illusion right away, which is really not a problem. The fun would be watching the characters jointly explore the dungeon while trying to sort out what is real and what is illusory for each. I would probably include other crossover effects as well, such as a lever only real in one but that will activate effects in all of them. Also a few situations where something is illusory in one but real in all the others. Effectively everything important they encounter will be real in at least one and illusory in at least one.

[illyahr]

Feel free to do so. Just not in a game where I am playing, okay? :smallwink:



I should think that some characters might figure out the base illusion right away, which is really not a problem. The fun would be watching the characters jointly explore the dungeon while trying to sort out what is real and what is illusory for each. I would probably include other crossover effects as well, such as a lever only real in one but that will activate effects in all of them. Also a few situations where something is illusory in one but real in all the others. Effectively everything important they encounter will be real in at least one and illusory in at least one.

I'm totally designing this thing tonight. My players will have a blast or hate me. Either way, It'll be fun to watch them squirm. :smallbiggrin:

[ganondorf50]

This sounds awesome. I love the idea of the of illusion party its the best these are great ideas.

[Bucky]

How about an extremely thin wall of force that they might randomly pass through if they run at it fast enough?

[BowStreetRunner]

How about an extremely thin wall of force that they might randomly pass through if they run at it fast enough?

I see what you are trying to do there. :smallamused: If you want to do this correctly I would have a corridor that splits in two and has traps down each path. If the party goes down the left path that trap goes off proving they took the left path. If they take the right path that trap goes off proving they took the right path. However, when they arrive at the junction where the two paths rejoin it will be evident that they suffered the effects of both traps proving that they did in fact go down both paths simultaneously. :smallbiggrin: I'm pretty sure that Schrödinger would have been about as fun to have for a DM as Gary Gygax (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_of_Horrors).

[TheifofZ]

Don't forget subtle (Compulsion) and (Mind-Control) traps. Nothing so blatant as "attack your buddies", but instead things like saying that the very real pit is an illusion.
Or that the illusory bridge is an illusion.
Or saying that the chest is definitely not trapped to high heaven.

Also: Real monsters obscured with illusions of much weaker or stronger monsters. That horde of orc barbarians with glowing axes of instadeath? All of them are actually human commoner skeletons with quarterstaves. A single T-Rex? Draco-lich. Gelatinous Cube? Living Spell: Harm+Disintegrate (because you hate your players, right?)

Oh, and an illusory lever next to an invisible lever right at the start. The real lever needs to be pulled to open up the final room. The one that's buried under so many traps and mind-screws noone will want to go back and forth.

[Bucky]

Don't forget subtle (Compulsion) and (Mind-Control) traps.

This reminds me of the Modify Memory trap. After triggering it, the character's sure it did something terrible to them but can't quite put their finger on what. The player also knows that they failed a Will save.

[daremetoidareyo]

Schroedinger's undead:

Invisible silenced ravid in a cage in an invisibility sphere. The ravid has mind leech that is really a druid 5 (halfling substitution level on level 5)/planar shepherd 7 with natural spell, aberration wildshape, great and small feats. Can cast spells from within the ravid. This druid needs access to some sort of animate dead spell, research or whatever...

The only other thing in the room is a skeleton dressed like a lich, with a phylactery, dressed like a human wizard, layered with with a major image of a different human wizard. The skeleton is an undead skeleton. The Druid casts spells from within the ravid as a mind leech to make it look and behave like a lich. Destroying the phylactery doesn't work. The skeleton still skeletons around. Killing the skeleton just causes the ravid to re-animate the bones as an animate object.

[TheThan]

An entire dungeon of illusion is not a good idea.
You see, an illusion is like bluffing in poker, you only ever do it once in a night, if that. Any more than that and people will assume you’re bluffing and call you on it.
When use illusions it works the same way. As soon as you use an illusion, then everyone at the table will assume everything they see is an illusion. This will spoil the point of the dungeon, as soon as they get hit by more than one illusion, they will immediately start rolling to disbelieve EVERYTHING they see to the point where you cannot fool them with the illusion anymore. Any illusion they come across will be disbelieved, as they will stand there and roll to disbelieve until they get a high enough result to either break the illusion or be convinced what they’re seeing is real.
It ruins your carefully laid plans, annoys the players to no end and slows your game down to a crawl.

Now, if you want to screw with our players like this, you need to be more clever, don’t rely upon illusions to do your dirty work. Use other mundane and magical effects to get that desired result, clever stone work is just as good as an illusion, plus it lets the party dwarf flex his stone cunning muscles and helps validate his reasons for picking a dwarf.

Here’s an example, the PCs come across an obvious uncovered pit trap, not able to go around it (hallways work best for pit traps) they naturally try to leap across it, the first guy goes and to his surprise crashes into a disguised wall along the edge of the opposite side of the pit causing him to fall into the trap and take damage. The wall and trap are real, but the wall is crafted or painted to look exactly like the corridor behind it. The pcs can now figure out how to circumvent the wall+pit trap but the effect is the same, you got them and they know it.

One trick is to make it mostly trap, puzzle and skill challenge based and less monster based. Have these challenges be a mix of obvious and not so obvious solutions. Keep in mind that if you make our puzzles and traps too obtuse then the players will get stumped and give up. Make sure each problem has multiple solutions and when the pcs come up with stuff you didn’t anticipate, if it make sense, let them get away with it. Since now they’ve gotten you. in fact, you should probably place clues right in front of them, probably in the previous room, that way they can figure it out without getting frustrated and annoyed.

[ganondorf50]

I got a map.
for details the twin rooms are traps 5d6 damage each from explosive runes
The basilisk is real for one of them and can and will turn someone to stone if it can
The two doors are mimics.
I am leading into a room where a trapper is (giant mimic floor.)
http://i.imgur.com/J8tdeO3.png

[Nifft]

Divination spells have a 50% chance to say the cat is alive, and a 50% chance to say the cat is dead.

Augury always returns "yes and no".

If you open the box, it turns out the cat is really ... an angry dragon.

[EisenKreutzer]

The party enters a dungeon through a teleportation circle that actually transports each party member to a different yet almost identical section of the dungeon. In each the character is joined by an illusory duplicate of each of the other party members so to them they all appear to have arrived at the same destination together. (Note that even if they manage to disbelieve the illusory copies they will still see them, allowing them to continue to communicate but now realizing they are not all physically together.) As they continue they will encounter various challenges, however each challenge is only real in one of the regions and illusory in each other.

In essence they are each in their own solo dungeon but they are all experiencing these at the same time. A wall, a monster, or even a trap might exist in one region but only be illusory in all of the others. Only one character is actually facing the challenge while the others are facing illusory copies of the same challenge. A fight with a group of orcs might even have one real orc for each of them but they all see all of the orcs, not just their own. (Note that the orcs would have to make their own saves against the illusion to determine which adventurer is real.)

Damnit, I was going to suggest almost exactly this.

My version is a door that teleports half the party to an identical room, and both rooms have illusory doubles of the other party members. There are monsters in each room, and illusory counterparts of the monsters in one room are present in the other.

This way, the party will see some attacks pass straight through monsters that seem real to the other party members, and if one or more PCs on one side disbelieves am illusion, others will still be affected by the real version of that monster.

So, very similiar.

[Ravens_cry]

This sounds . . . cute. And I don't mean in a good way. I mean one of those things that sounds like terrible fun for the DM but an annoying and merciless, nay, actively antagonistic, hell for the player. Tomb of Horrors kind of stuff. At most, I'd be OK with a level of this stuff, but after that I'd be ready to go back to a more normal adventure, thank you.

[ganondorf50]

Divination spells have a 50% chance to say the cat is alive, and a 50% chance to say the cat is dead.

Augury always returns "yes and no".

If you open the box, it turns out the cat is really ... an angry dragon.

thats a better idea than i had but im gonna keep that

[nedz]

One of the most fun magical traps I ever used was a spell from the 2E ToM which would be easy to port.

The spell was called Inverted Ethics. On a failed save the ethics, but not alignment, of the target are inverted: Robbers become Cops, coins are added to a chest rather than removed, Healers stab people, ..., etc.

This was hilarious.

[atemu1234]

Illusionary Bridge over an Illusionary Pit. Illusionary Sign saying the bridge is fake is right in the middle of it. Will save to disbelieve the sign is real. Succeed at that, and you're fine. Fail, and save to believe the bridge isn't real. Fail, and save to believe that they aren't falling.


Suddenly realize that the entire dungeon has been illusion layered over illusion over illusions to the Nth degree. Or better yet, the entire campaign...

I can feel my brain committing suicide trying to comprehend that.

[torrasque666]

I can feel my brain committing suicide trying to comprehend that.
Hell my own brain starts to melt when I try to comprehend it.

[atemu1234]

Hell my own brain starts to melt when I try to comprehend it.

Did you try turning it off then on again?

[torrasque666]

Did you try turning it off then on again?
Its hard to turn off melted goop. Easier to turn it back on though.

[DarkSonic1337]

I suggest making heavy use of greater shadow conjuration (wall of stone), to create walls that are 60% real (after save to disbelieve). Layer these with invisible spell (wall of stone), invisible spell greater shadow conjuration (wall of stone), and...wall of stone.

Also have the whole dungeon under the effect of dimensional lock.

[nedz]

I suggest making heavy use of greater shadow conjuration (wall of stone), to create walls that are 60% real (after save to disbelieve). Layer these with invisible spell (wall of stone), invisible spell greater shadow conjuration (wall of stone), and...wall of stone.

Also have the whole dungeon under the effect of dimensional lock.

You could add in some Illusory Walls too.