Full Metal Sorcerer (but don't look too sternly at him, or he might lose his mind)

[Second Arrow]

Very brief summary:


The Psychic bloodline arcana makes sorcerer casting count as psychic for all purposes, including no ASF.
The VMC Oracle (Battle - or METAL, but it's not a VMC option, apparently :smallsigh: ) gives access to heavy armor proficiency (Skill at Arms) at level 3.
Gear up.


Playground, do you have any suggestions on how to build this further?
I'm strongly considering choosing the trait Unflappable Arrogance (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Unflappable%20Arrogance ), but other than that, I fear that I might be a bit stuck. Is there any obvious synergies that I'm missing, or unforeseen challenges?

[MyrPsychologist]

I have three points to this topic:


1. I'm a little confused by the SRD's wording on the archetype. Do you turn all spells with somatic and verbal components into spells with emotional and mental components? Because that seems incredibly dangerous and can potentially lock you down from just intimidate checks.

2. Also. You're exchanging a lot of feats with VMC for benefits that I personally don't really see as worthwhile.

3. I don't particularly understand the theme. Is the goal to just wear full plate as a sorcerer? Or are we trying to get a really high AC? Or are you referencing the anime Full Metal Alchemist?

[Second Arrow]

Thank you for responding, first of all! I feel like I should note that the goal is more to make him optimal within his sphere, rather than the one true sorcerer. I just like the thought of having a full plate "arcane" caster.

1. From my reading, yes - all sorcerer spells & SLA's are treated as if they were psychic in origin, which also leads to the Intimidate kryptonite. Hence, I'm thinking about going Half-Orc for the Unflinching Valor racial trait, giving +2 vs fear effects (which Intimidate should be), and with Unflappable Arrogance I believe I'm sitting at a DC 17 before adding any other modifiers into the equation.

2. The VMC is debatable, I understand that. Since my overall goal is just really to have a full plate casty that slightly subverts expectations, would you then recommend just getting the feats the old-fashioned way?

3. It's a mixture of all of them :smalltongue:

[Psyren]

It's just "wear armor while casting." I don't see a big problem, other than obviously you'll need a decent strength to wear even mithral full plate so this prevents you from dumping it entirely.



1. I'm a little confused by the SRD's wording on the archetype. Do you turn all spells with somatic and verbal components into spells with emotional and mental components? Because that seems incredibly dangerous and can potentially lock you down from just intimidate checks.

Remove Fear is a thing - potions, or Magical Lineage + Logical Spell etc. Once suppressed, Intimidate won't stack and so you will be immune to it for 10 minutes.

There are also plenty of spells with no somatic/emotion components, like Dimension Door, just learn one of those.

[Mithril Leaf]

It's just "wear armor while casting." I don't see a big problem, other than obviously you'll need a decent strength to wear even mithral full plate so this prevents you from dumping it entirely.


One of the very nice things about pathfinder is the easy access to drastic increases in carrying capacity. You can get +8 strength for that purpose and a separate x4 or so multiplier.

[Vhaidara]

Bonuses vs fear do not apply against Intimidate, because it isn't a save. Part of why Intimidate is so BS, honestly. It's next to impossible to increase the DC. For example, the check to intimidate my level 5 Bloodrager, who has a 7 wisdom because she's impulsive and reckless, especially in the face of danger and fear, while she is in a murderous blood rage, is 13. So we'll within the bounds of a level 1 commoner being able to make her shaken for 2 rounds (18-20).

[MyrPsychologist]

Thank you for responding, first of all! I feel like I should note that the goal is more to make him optimal within his sphere, rather than the one true sorcerer. I just like the thought of having a full plate "arcane" caster.

1. From my reading, yes - all sorcerer spells & SLA's are treated as if they were psychic in origin, which also leads to the Intimidate kryptonite. Hence, I'm thinking about going Half-Orc for the Unflinching Valor racial trait, giving +2 vs fear effects (which Intimidate should be), and with Unflappable Arrogance I believe I'm sitting at a DC 17 before adding any other modifiers into the equation.

2. The VMC is debatable, I understand that. Since my overall goal is just really to have a full plate casty that slightly subverts expectations, would you then recommend just getting the feats the old-fashioned way?

3. It's a mixture of all of them :smalltongue:

1. Then be super mindful of this. It isn't JUST fear that you need to be considerate of and I would strongly recommend talking to your GM about their specific interpretation of intimidate and how they will choose to use it. Because it severely hinders your character. The thread about the mesmerist and the implications it faces on this matter has a lot of really good points and considerations. This isn't a deal breaker, just keep it in mind.

2. I would normally say a dip but your concept seems to really utilize this to avoid the spell check failure in a unique way. So it looks like it fits the theme.

[Second Arrow]

It's just "wear armor while casting." I don't see a big problem, other than obviously you'll need a decent strength to wear even mithral full plate so this prevents you from dumping it entirely.

Remove Fear is a thing - potions, or Magical Lineage + Logical Spell etc. Once suppressed, Intimidate won't stack and so you will be immune to it for 10 minutes.

There are also plenty of spells with no somatic/emotion components, like Dimension Door, just learn one of those.

Thank you for your input. Would you say that getting Potion Glutton for the express purpose of quickly downing a potion of remove fear would be of use? The imagery is rather funny - the knee-jerk reaction to getting scared = get a drink. Very very quickly.


One of the very nice things about pathfinder is the easy access to drastic increases in carrying capacity. You can get +8 strength for that purpose and a separate x4 or so multiplier.

In regards of carrying capacity, do you think there is a point in getting the trait "Muscle of Society", or should Ant Haul just do fine by itself? I'm thinking of getting a 14 strength at the beginning, which should help with a bit of basic martial competency, and having an "arcane" caster with a positive strength modifier is refreshing, to say to the least. :smalltongue:


Bonuses vs fear do not apply against Intimidate, because it isn't a save. Part of why Intimidate is so BS, honestly. It's next to impossible to increase the DC. For example, the check to intimidate my level 5 Bloodrager, who has a 7 wisdom because she's impulsive and reckless, especially in the face of danger and fear, while she is in a murderous blood rage, is 13. So we'll within the bounds of a level 1 commoner being able to make her shaken for 2 rounds (18-20).


1. Then be super mindful of this. It isn't JUST fear that you need to be considerate of and I would strongly recommend talking to your GM about their specific interpretation of intimidate and how they will choose to use it. Because it severely hinders your character. The thread about the mesmerist and the implications it faces on this matter has a lot of really good points and considerations. This isn't a deal breaker, just keep it in mind.

2. I would normally say a dip but your concept seems to really utilize this to avoid the spell check failure in a unique way. So it looks like it fits the theme.

Yeah, the Intimidate is really annoying. I figured that Unflappable Arrogance is perhaps the best way to increase the DC / helping in negating fear. I guess I'll ask for a house rule about bonuses to fear/mind-affecting also applying vs Intimidate, which by this FAQ is a mind-affecting fear effect (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9svt). If it does, then the DC to intimidate this guy should be something along the lines of 10
+ 5 (Unflappable Arrogance, Trait)
+ 2-4 (Mental Resistance, Psychic bloodline 3rd level power)
+ 2 (Unflinching Valor, Race)
+ Wis Modifier (likely to be +0)
+ 1+ (Character level)

So, even starting at level 3, if this -very reasonable- interpretation of fear/mind-affecting stuff applies, the intimidate DC should be 22 - and last for a maximum of 1 round. Not super hard to hit, by any means, but at least a lot better than average..

-----

Incidentially, I just realised that I could build this by going Blood Arcanist instead of Sorcerer. Prepared casting ahoy :smallcool:

Actually, how would you say that the Witch spell list compares to the Wizard / Sorcerer one? The Unlettered Arcanist seems to stack with the Blood Arcanist archetype, and the imagery of a super-mongrel mage is pretty funny: An Arcanist with a Sorcerer Bloodline, that casts Psychic Spells from the Witch spell list, and who dabbles in the Oracle mysteries on the side - all single classed. Y'know. :smallbiggrin:

[Psyren]

Thank you for your input. Would you say that getting Potion Glutton for the express purpose of quickly downing a potion of remove fear would be of use? The imagery is rather funny - the knee-jerk reaction to getting scared = get a drink. Very very quickly.

If you're allowed to take it sure, but keep in mind that it's really intended for Urgathoa worshipers as written. You'll probably have better luck with Magical Lineage + Metamagic Master + Logical Spell + Quicken Spell. Or the nuclear option, Sacred Geometry.

Alternatively, just do Magical Lineage + Logical Spell and use a lesser Quicken Rod.

[Arbane]

Actually, how would you say that the Witch spell list compares to the Wizard / Sorcerer one? The Unlettered Arcanist seems to stack with the Blood Arcanist archetype, and the imagery of a super-mongrel mage is pretty funny: An Arcanist with a Sorcerer Bloodline, that casts Psychic Spells from the Witch spell list, and who dabbles in the Oracle mysteries on the side - all single classed. Y'know. :smallbiggrin:

The Witch spell list is MUCH weaker/less versatile than the Wizard's. But then, so it everything else in the game, so....