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Kane0
2015-09-23, 01:27 AM
Greetings playground!

Welcome to my build spotlight, a thread dedicated to a specific combination utilizing the Eldritch Knight's War Magic ability. Using this we will be building ourselves an arcane archer of sorts, playable from level 1 to 20 and aiming to offer fun new options all the way through.
The Eldritch Archer is a solid all rounder once he really gets going in the mid levels. He starts off as a typical switch hitter fighter and quickly branches out into basic spellcasting and solid skill-monkeying, becoming a valuable member of any party with his blend of damage, tankiness, casting and skills. A Gish worthy of the title.

Disclaimer: This build was not thought up by me, full credit goes to the forum-goer I first saw it from. Please PM me and I will write your name in its rightful place here.

So without further ado, I present the framework of this build:

Levels: Eldritch Knight 7 / Warlock 2 / Rogue 11, in that order. Eldritch Knight 8 / Warlock 2 / Rogue 10 also works, trading 1d6 sneak attack and reliable talent for an extra ASI.

Stats: Dex 16+, Cha 14+, Con 12+. Dex is your primary stat used for your archery, backup melee weapon, AC, saves and initiative. Cha aids your skills, casting and EB once you unlock it in the mid-levels and Con keeps you alive as it always does.

Race:
Variant Human
Aasimaar
Elf (Drow)
Half-Elf
Halfling
Tiefling

Background: Urchin is a favorite for thieves tools, though anything that gives Dex or Cha based skills are good options.

ASIs: With your fighter and rogue levels you won't be lacking for these, unlike other multiclass options. You will get ASIs at levels 4, 6, 13, 17 and 19. For the extra ASI version (Fighter 8/Warlock 2/Rogue 10) you get them at levels 4, 6, 8, 14, 18 and 20.

Feats:
Alert
Observant
Sharpshooter
Lucky
Spell Sniper
Half Feats (Actor, )

Skills:
Acrobatics
Persuasion or Intimidation
Perception
Insight
Stealth
Deception
Arcana

Subclass Options: I'll break this into the constituent classes.

Fighter: Sadly your choice for fighter is locked by the nature of this build. We need war magic, so Eldritch Knight is our choice.

Warlock: The majority of the time you won't get this choice since we only go to warlock 2, but for those that go warlock 3-4 have this decision to make.
Blade gives few benefits for us, since our weapon is a bow. However if you can convince your DM to use your bow as your pact weapon this becomes much more fun, especially when combined with the EK's weapon bond.
Chain offers you an enhanced familiar, great for getting advantage in a fight via the help action and as an expendable set of eyes and ears away from combat. Remember that you aren't stuck with one kind of familiar!
Tome grants some handy cantrips and rituals like guidance, resistance, find familiar and comprehend languages. Great for out of combat utility.

Rogue: Now here we get some options.
Arcane Trickster enhances your casting to eventually grant you up to 3rd level slots and some extra spell options, though these are long-rest based and thus more scarce for you. Nevertheless, more casting is never something to scoff at, especially when that casting nets you access to invisibility. Ranged Ledgerdemain is also handy for not being close to anything that could hurt you.
Assassin is a strong contender for its alpha potential, and a surprise critical spree can be further enhanced by your actions surge for a nasty wallop in the opening move of a fight. Infiltration also dovetails nicely with the mask of many faces invocation.
Thief is usually the least desirable for us since our bonus action is usually tied up with war magic. The mobility benefits are however handy to make up for picking the archery fighting style over mariner.
Swashbuckler is mainly for dual wielding, melee rogues so does little to help us out. Plus its unearthed arcana so less likely to be an option in the first place.

Class Abilities:
Fighter:
Second Wind: Great in the low, squishy levels and after that changes to a nice way for you to save on Hit Dice expenditure.
Action Surge: Fantastic as it always is. You can use this for an extra pair of bowshots, a spell or cantrip, extra movement, a magic item, etc.
Fighting Style: Archery is the default choice for the +2 to hit, but mariner is also a very good option if you have Unearthed Arcana available to you and you are confident in your aim.
Extra Attack: You don't end up with the full 4 by the end-game, but you do get the same as the other warriors with 2. This is still plenty handy for when you aren't using eldritch blast or war magic, such as against magic resistant foes or when caught in melee. It also greatly increases your chances of landing the important sneak attack when used.
Weapon Bond: You can never lose your bow and backup blade. Great to have, but less so when you lose all your gear, since you can summon back your bow but not arrows.
War Magic: The reason you are an Eldritch Knight. You use this to combine an Eldritch blast and a sneak attack bowshot for some very respectable long range damage. It is also applicable when in melee as you can use Blade Ward or true strike and still get in a sneak attack.
Spellcasting: Supplementary to your warlock spell slots and mostly used in emergencies, you can use these to power shields and absorb elements to increase your survivability. You can also use them for warlock spells like Hex and Expeditious Retreat. Thunderwave and find familiar are also notable options.

Warlock:
Pact Casting: True to fighter form, you are refreshed and ready to go with a short rest. Hex is a primary choice, but there are some other spells worth getting if your Cha and patron allow, such as charm person, faerie fire, command, and hideous laughter.
Patron: Will depend on the flavor you want to go with, and all have their benefits. Fiend grants you some tasty temp HP but you will hopefully not be needing it with your long distance tactics, Great Old One has the RP gold that is Telepathy and Fey bestows upon you a respectable charm/fear effect, though the DC might be a bit low until you bring your charisma up.
Invocations: Agonizing blast will usually take up your first choice, but the second is far more open. I'll put in some suggestions below.

Rogue:
Expertise: Double proficiency on skills and/or thieves tools in conjunction with your good dex and cha makes you a qualified skill monkey, especially if you chose Beguiling Influence.
Sneak Attack: This is a valuable source of damage in the late game, though you are by no means helpless without it. Advantage is important to you, though less so than most rogues.
Thieves Cant: Its a ribbon, but it always comes in handy for not crossing people that you shouldn't and crossing the people you should.
Cunning Action: You get it late at level 11, but its as good as always. You can always choose to fight at range if you have a location you can move to, and you are very rarely caught where you don't want to be for more than a round or two. The only issue is that your bonus action is usually tied up with war magic, so choose wisely.
Uncanny Dodge: Your reaction isn't going to a lot of opportunity attacks with where you will usually be standing so taking half damage from an attack directed at you (if it even hits through your good dex based ac and available shield spells) is pretty valuable.
Evasion: Much like uncanny dodge, the ability to simply ignore damage on successful dex saves means you will be living noticeably longer.
Reliable Talent: Gained at level 20, this is your capstone. You cannot roll below 10 for skills you are proficient in. Nifty but at this point not the gamechanger one would usually be hoping for at the end of their career.

Invocations:
Armor of shadows is thematic and useful given your high Dex, allowing for some very nice AC. However you are a ranged character so AC isn't as important as it is for the frontliners.
Beguiling Influence is a pair of useful skill proficiencies, which can then be further enhanced by expertise. Seal of approval.
Devil's Sight is fantastic for Drow and others abusing the Darkness + Devil's sight combo. But lets be honest, the 2 level warlock dip is cheesy enough as it is.
Mask of Many Faces is amazing when used with your good Cha and social skills. You could be a different person every few minutes!
Eldritch Spear is good for increasing your EB range to compete with your longbow, but it's not all that often you'll be further than 120' away
Repelling Blast is great for target management, keeping enemies from closing and moving them to more favorable positions for your party. And with no save to boot!

Equipment: Recommended basic equipment would be: Bow (preferably longbow), plenty of ammunition, light armor (unless you use mage armor), a light melee weapon, shield, spell focus and thieves kit. As far as magic items go just take what you can get, anything that enhances your archery, eldritch blast or defenses are priorities.

So! Comments, criticisms, suggestions, improvements? I'll take it all.

Kane0
2015-09-23, 01:34 AM
Coming Soon: Deeper look at stats and abilities, substitutions and alternatives.

Alternative Options:

Fighter 8 / Warlock 2 / Rogue 10: You give up 1d6 sneak attack and reliable talent for an extra ASI, and delay your progress depending on when you obtain it. Better for long term builds where those ASIs matter, but most people will want all the parts by mid levels so each level they wait is a level they are missing out.

Death Cleric 1: Replacing Warlock 2, this substitutes EB for Chill touch which is doubled by the Death Domain ability. You lose damage potential and invocations but gain access to the awesome bless spell as well as healing ion the form of cure wounds and healing word. The caster level gained also stacks with EK and AT multiclass slots, and you can put that second level into fighter or rogue. All in all you lose a significant chunk for a small benefit, but its a workable alternative if your DM frowns upon Warlock 2 dips.

Greenfire Blade: This cantrip works well with war magic and sneak attack, providing an excellent melee option if one closes and you don't feel like moving away for blasts. In addition to the bonus fire damage it also hits an adjacent target for a bit more, win win!

Kryx
2015-09-23, 03:40 AM
Assuming your numbers are correct using a 58% chance to hit (65% minus 1.45 to hit from an average cover which is standard based on my DPR calcs) your level 20 DPR is
((5.5+4)*4 + (4.5+5) + (3.5*5) + 21 )*.58
(38 + 9.5 + 17.5 + 21) *.58
86 * .58 = 49.88 DPR

Falls short of melee builds (fighter doing 70, barb doing 79). Probably the best ranged build.

Though a 2 level warlock dip is considered cheesy by some. I'm inclined to agree.

djreynolds
2015-09-23, 03:53 AM
Why not 11 for fighter? Or 12? Extra feat and 3 attacks. More spells. Rogue to 8, 4 skills expertise , uncanny dodge, and evasion and one more ASI/feat. 11 fighter, 2 warlock, 7 rogue. Perhaps arcane trickster for more spells.

Good build guide in the forum for eldritch knight bowman

Otherwise, besides optimization, very cool build. I like it.

CNagy
2015-09-23, 05:26 AM
Selling the Arcane Trickster short is a mistake. If you take more than 8 rogue levels, Arcane Trickster will get you 3rd level spell slots from the multiclass chart, which means an 8 hour duration on Hex. In addition, you get access to the Invisibility spell, as well as whatever other Illusion/Enchantment spells you want from 1st/2nd level Wizard spell list. Like the Eldritch Knight, the spell learned at 8th level can come from any school, so that is added versatility.

djreynolds
2015-09-23, 06:27 AM
Selling the Arcane Trickster short is a mistake. If you take more than 8 rogue levels, Arcane Trickster will get you 3rd level spell slots from the multiclass chart, which means an 8 hour duration on Hex. In addition, you get access to the Invisibility spell, as well as whatever other Illusion/Enchantment spells you want from 1st/2nd level Wizard spell list. Like the Eldritch Knight, the spell learned at 8th level can come from any school, so that is added versatility.

I agree, and also can he snag magic adept feat and grab a 1st level spell of his choice there. IMO, the tough thing is weighing cantrips vs your attack, ranged in your case. Only because if you're focusing on magic your to hit is with those stats and not dex. Its still a very cool build, and since with rogue you're getting sneak attack anyhow you may as well grab from Arcane trickster.

Have you thought of valor bard in place of eldritch knight, both can grab hex and unless you take 11 levels in fighter your attacks are the same, granted +2 archery is nice, but that is easily obtainable via quick dip.

Otherwise cool build, I'd like to see the finished creation.

TheTeaMustFlow
2015-09-23, 06:58 AM
Why not 11 for fighter? Or 12? Extra feat and 3 attacks. More spells. Rogue to 8, 4 skills expertise , uncanny dodge, and evasion and one more ASI/feat. 11 fighter, 2 warlock, 7 rogue. Perhaps arcane trickster for more spells.

Good build guide in the forum for eldritch knight bowman

Otherwise, besides optimization, very cool build. I like it.

Extra Attack isn't very useful when your primary attack is using War Magic. Sneak Attack, on the other hand, is.

Kane0
2015-09-23, 07:26 PM
Good points on arcane trickster, will update accordingly.

Also true for fighter 11, a third attack is largely wasted since war magic is the primary means of damage output. The second attack from level 5 is largely useful at the low levels and after that is handy only for when you aren't using war magic.

INDYSTAR188
2015-09-24, 06:26 AM
This is great! I wonder if an arcane archer could be made that let's you imbue magic into your ammunition (arrows in this case). Does grabbing crossbow expert (and using a crossbow) help or is that out of scope for your build?

MrStabby
2015-09-24, 06:54 AM
Slightly offtopic but I tried something quite similar once with Cleric instead of Warlock. I won't say it's better but it does work very well.

One rank of Death Cleric gets you the reaper ability that can help you double up your cantrips. Cleric also stacks with eldritch knight and arcane trickster for getting higher spell levels.

A lot of low level cleric spells are pretty awesome. Healing word, bless, guidance all add a lot to the character.

Plus if you only have to take one caster level it is giving you an extra level of something else.

Kane0
2015-09-24, 06:32 PM
Thats not a bad alternative, Death Cleric 1 nets you access to bless and healing, trading EB for a double Chill touch. You lose out on invocations but gain an extra level of fighter or rogue. It also gives you a viable alternative to warlock for DMs that don't allow Warlock 2 dips.


This is great! I wonder if an arcane archer could be made that let's you imbue magic into your ammunition (arrows in this case). Does grabbing crossbow expert (and using a crossbow) help or is that out of scope for your build?

It would be quite easy to reflavor your EB to be enchanted arrows/bolts, and crossbow master definitely helps with firing at opponents in melee. The bonus action shot probably isn't as useful since thats exactly what we're already doing most of the time.

numerek
2015-09-24, 11:50 PM
Assuming your numbers are correct using a 58% chance to hit (65% minus 1.45 to hit from an average cover which is standard based on my DPR calcs) your level 20 DPR is
((5.5+4)*4 + (4.5+5) + (3.5*5) + 21 )*.58
(38 + 9.5 + 17.5 + 21) *.58
86 * .58 = 49.88 DPR

Falls short of melee builds (fighter doing 70, barb doing 79). Probably the best ranged build.

Though a 2 level warlock dip is considered cheesy by some. I'm inclined to agree.

According to your link 20 fighter does 63 and 20 Barbarian does 74, and a large portion of that comes at level 20, at level 19 fighter does 50 and 19 Barbarian does 53, so the DPR would be pretty close but I have no idea where you are getting 58%. -1.45 our group has 3 primarily ranged characters out of 6 and the percentage of times that we are shooting thru half cover isn't 1.45/2= 72.5% and I have yet to have to shoot thru 3/4 cover and I believe that most 3/4 cover situations would apply to melee attacks also. There have also been situations where our melee only monk(I don't know why he refuses to use ranged weapons) and our druid usually uses wild shape but even the spells he picks are generally short range were out of the fight for a few turns running to close the distance. 0 damage per round can have a bad effect on average dpr. I'm also not sure how your fighter is keeping 36-48% of his targets prone especially since trip attack only works on large or smaller targets.

Anyways my calculations (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Jy_EoOrlar_M6W_jsmJVJuXog1ULIT4SKINSiyHqaCQ/) on this build, and fighters and barbarians is:


class/level
19
20


figher/warlock/rogue
55.7
57.3


fighter
45.6
58.6


barbarian frenzy
62.6
76.2