When is the best time for a Bard to multiclass?

[rgrekejin]

So, I'm playing a Valor Bard (half-elf, criminal background if that's important), presently at 3rd level. I'm considering multiclassing into Warlock for two levels in order to pick up the Eldritch Blast/Hex/Agonizing Blast combo to help my damage output, and to pick up Awakened Mind from the Great Old One patron bonus (I'm quite good at stealth, and the telepathy might help with that). My question is, when is the best time to break off and take the Warlock levels? I'm thinking of taking Bard out to level 5, so that I get 3rd level casting and can take the Warcaster feat at level 4, and then take the two levels of Warlock before going back to Bard.

Any thoughts? Would it be better to multiclass earlier? Later? Is there any good reason for taking more than two levels of Warlock? I don't think any of the Pact boons look especially good - I have most of the Cantrips I want, I'm lukewarm on the idea of a familiar, and I don't know that I need a magic weapon, especially one that doesn't seem to use my casting stat for attack and damage rolls (unless I'm missing something). Would it be better to just go straight Bard and gain new spell levels quicker? What say you all.

[PoeticDwarf]

When you have five or six levels in bard I'd take two levels in warlock.

[Daehron]

I don't know that I need a magic weapon, especially one that doesn't seem to use my casting stat for attack and damage rolls (unless I'm missing something).

Pact of the Tome, grab Shillelagh, turn every stick into a magic staff, 1 handed, 1D8 damage, Cha stat for hit and damage. Makes getting martial weapons proficiency (for melee) redundant. If you find a better magic weapon later, you can always fall back on "recall tome / pick up stick / begin beat down" should you get stripped of gear, which seems to be a new theme in Out of the Abyss... (edit - fixed punctuation)

[rgrekejin]

Pact of the Tome, grab Shillelagh, turn every stick into a magic staff, 1 handed, 1D8 damage, Cha stat for hit and damage. Makes getting martial weapons proficiency (for melee) redundant. If you find a better magic weapon later, you can always fall back on "recall tome / pick up stick / begin beat down" should you get stripped of gear, which seems to be a new theme in Out of the Abyss... (edit - fixed punctuation)

I thought about taking the 3rd level of Warlock for pretty much this exact reason. Essentially, it works out to trading a level of Bard spells for Shillelagh, and I'm just not sure that's worth it when I've already got EB/Agonizing Blast/Hex going. Being one entire spell level behind the other main casters in the party is already enough to make me question whether the Warlock dip is worth it. I'm not sure I'd be willing to be two spell levels behind unless I had a darn good reason for it, and I'm not sure Shillelagh is it.

[Corey]

In the hypothetical progression to Level 20, you don't want Bard to fall short of 18. That's when you get Wish and Shapechange.

[sigfile]

It's all about the concept or pain point. There's never a painless time to multiclass, but the longer you hold off the less likely you are to ever get around to it.

[Citan]

So, I'm playing a Valor Bard (half-elf, criminal background if that's important), presently at 3rd level. I'm considering multiclassing into Warlock for two levels in order to pick up the Eldritch Blast/Hex/Agonizing Blast combo to help my damage output, and to pick up Awakened Mind from the Great Old One patron bonus (I'm quite good at stealth, and the telepathy might help with that). My question is, when is the best time to break off and take the Warlock levels? I'm thinking of taking Bard out to level 5, so that I get 3rd level casting and can take the Warcaster feat at level 4, and then take the two levels of Warlock before going back to Bard.

Any thoughts? Would it be better to multiclass earlier? Later? Is there any good reason for taking more than two levels of Warlock? I don't think any of the Pact boons look especially good - I have most of the Cantrips I want, I'm lukewarm on the idea of a familiar, and I don't know that I need a magic weapon, especially one that doesn't seem to use my casting stat for attack and damage rolls (unless I'm missing something). Would it be better to just go straight Bard and gain new spell levels quicker? What say you all.
Hi! Difficult question to answer.
The usual "by default" choice is what EnderDwarf proposed: Bard 6 min (Extra Attack, lvl3 spells) then dip. Late enough so you have your main attack, soon enough to still get to enjoy the benefits of multiclassing (you'll feel the 2-level lateness in spellcasting compared to others, though)

But in fact...

It's all about the concept or pain point. There's never a painless time to multiclass, but the longer you hold off the less likely you are to ever get around to it.
This. It really depends on what you currently bring into the party, how much you want the multiclass abilities for your own fun, and how better or worse you would contribute to the party during these few levels...

If you only want to dip Warlock to the EB and Hex, I'd say follow EnderDwarf advice and wait Bard 6 at the minimum maybe even later. Why?

EB won't be much better than your Valor Bard weapon attack (2 strikes) before at least 11th character level (3rd beam), unless you're really high CHA and low DEX/STR (in which case why go Valor anyways?).

Also, sure Hex is good but you will have many good other Concentration spells as Bard (Bestow Curse not being the last, also Hold Person, Heat Metal, Invisibility...).
And you an always wait up to lvl10 Bard to get Hex (or Hunter's Mark).

So the true value of dipping is basically Agonizing Eldricht Blast (+ Mage Armor or Persuasion/Intimidation proficiency for 2nd Invocation if you don't take also Repelling Blast).

Is it good enough to make the dip worth? I have no definite answer on this, may be yes, may be no. It depends on how you plan to play usually (melee? Ranged?), your other choice of spells and your party. What I think is sure though is that you don't need it to be efficient. It's just bringing a very good ranged attack option, until you really build around (max CHA, Warcaster, Crossbow Expert).

>>> I'd suggest: as long as you have fun as pure Valor and everyone feels you're contributing good, you can wait, or maybe never dip. :)

[djreynolds]

Can't you just take magic adept? And grab eldritch blast there, right? Perhaps I read the feat wrong.

Go valor bard and you become one heck of a bowmen and can sword and rapier when needed.

You have inspiration and buffs for your buddies.

If its glory you really seek, raise that strength to 13 and go paladin.

I find multiclassing fun when its organic to the game, like the cleric went back to college and someone has to fill that role, etc. Its usually not optimized but fits. I had a fighter who multiclassed to cleric, but took the monk's nature god as his patron... because its who influenced him. He had a 20 in strength so no goodies, but it felt right and was very fun. He went from plate armor to tree hugger.

But in the end, if you want to multiclass go now and do it. Eldritch blast is very dependable.

[Citan]

Can't you just take magic adept? And grab eldritch blast there, right? Perhaps I read the feat wrong.

You read the feat perfectly right, but Eldricht Blast without invocations is only marginally better than other blast cantrips (it's sole advantage is being force). Not sure it's worth taking a feat just for this (well, you also get 1/day Hex which is not bad but not great either), when you can get them with Magic Secrets or just do without. :)

[DemonSlayer6]

There is never a "good time" to multiclass in 5e. Multiclassing early on means you are a level or two behind on your main abilities; and unless it pays off in those levels you are going to be less effective than other players for a good while. And multiclassing later leads to a problem that the reason you multiclass for may not be that useful. I mean, why take Unarmored Defense and maybe get an AC of 18 by maxing one score and starting to max a second if you already have AC 20+ because of your armor and shield and a random magic item?

However the best time is usually early on. My recommendation, in fact, is to go 3/1 and when you hit 5th character-level (or, 4/1) you'll have an ability score increase and you'll increase your proficiency bonus. Then once you get this, I recommend you finish your "dipping" unless there are any good 3rd-level Bard spells you really really really want.