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Were-Sandwich
2007-05-16, 12:19 PM
I have a cool idea for a character concept that probably won't work out in the s20 system, so I'd like some help trying to realise it.

Think a gunslinger, but with wands. He fights with a pair of wands, using them like a gunfighhter would dual pistols, maybe including 'wand-whips', maybe some gun-fu type stuff. Problem is, I'd rather not use a caster class, as he's more about fighting than casting, using the wands, but not casting the spells.

Problems:
As far as I know, there's no way to attack people directly with wands, short of the Wand Strike feat
I don't want to be a caster, but there are no full-bab classes with UMD on their class list that I know of
Short of dipping warlock (naturally, seeing if the DM will let me trade Eldritch blast for something worthwhile), there's no way to make sure you definetly activate the wand, short of LOTS of ranks
Wands just aren't great, with the whole 3rd level or lower thing. Might be better to use Dorjes
To be able to use two at once, I need Dual Wand Wielder, which requires Craft Wand. Here comes Warlock dip again...


Thanks for help in advance.

JaronK
2007-05-16, 12:21 PM
Artificer. The specific build is called a "Blastificer" and it's shockingly powerful. See the CharOp boards for details. Artificers, despite not being standard casters, can craft any wand, and then apply metamagic feats to wands, doing insane things as a result.

JaronK

Were-Sandwich
2007-05-16, 12:24 PM
....
...
..
.

You know, I really should have thought of that. Problem is, I don't want to be based on crafting stuff, just blasting with the wands. However, I think we can work around that....

SpiderBrigade
2007-05-16, 12:37 PM
I believe the specific character concept you're going for is referred to as a Sorcelator.

Were-Sandwich
2007-05-16, 12:44 PM
Pray tell.

DreamOfTheRood
2007-05-16, 01:00 PM
I believe the specific character concept you're going for is referred to as a Sorcelator.



http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/922/emotawesomeef1.gif (http://imageshack.us)
That was brilliant.

Jasdoif
2007-05-16, 01:05 PM
Pray tell.Only one Sorcelator I know of. (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/05/19)

Oh, and...

Wands just aren't great, with the whole 3rd level or lower thing.Fourth or lower. It's potions that are limited to 3rd.

Ramza00
2007-05-16, 01:19 PM
Artificer with Cannith Wand Adept if I remember with these feats.

Complete Arcane
Wandstrike
Double Wand Wielder
Eberron
Wand Mastery

Ulzgoroth
2007-05-16, 01:22 PM
As for using them as weapons, you could probably pursuade a DM to let you make club-wands. They'd be awful, but you could hit someone with them if you felt like it.

TreesOfDeath
2007-05-16, 01:31 PM
Sorry to go OT, but how did you get that flashing avatar? Its cool

Closet_Skeleton
2007-05-16, 01:35 PM
You know, I really should have thought of that. Problem is, I don't want to be based on crafting stuff, just blasting with the wands. However, I think we can work around that....

Well, any Gunsligner will know how to maintain his guns. You can marginalise the crafting thing if you want.

SpiderBrigade
2007-05-16, 02:05 PM
Ok, so to me it sounds like one of the artificer builds isn't really exactly what you want, as they're all about doing cool magical things with the wands - which does rock, but it seems like you want a more...combative character. What's wrong with taking, say, a single level of Sorceror, Wizard, Warlock, or even Cleric (with the Magic domain), then continuing with a full-BAB class? That one level of non-full isn't going to hurt your attack much.

Now, as to the mechanics of what you can do, you'll want to look into magic items. Warning: this will get expensive pretty fast. My recommendation: Gloves of Casting, two Rods of Many Wands, and Wand Bracers (Magic Item Compendium, Complete Mage, Dungeonscape).

What you'll do is load each of the Rods of Many Wands with two (or three if you want) different wands. That'll give you the "multiple wand use per round" part of what you want, although it does take a full-round action now. You can put the rods inside the Casting Gloves, allowing you to activate them while keeping your hands free.

Meanwhile, put a number of other wands, probably different ones, into the wand bracers. That'll let you stay flexible on short notice.

Now, the question becomes what to put IN those wands? My recommendation is to make high-CL wands of Magic Missile your staple, with possibly some Scorching Ray thrown in there. Are save-or-lose spells better? Yes, but it sounds like you want a blasty character. Leave the batmannery to the wizard.

If your DM is flexible, try to talk him into letting you wield the Rod of Many Wands as a light mace. Many other Rods allow this, and I don't think it's exactly overpowering. In that case, you can either skip the Casting Gloves, or keep something else in there for flexibility. If allowed, this would fit the "gun-fu" flavor you're going for very well, I think. You shoot a bunch of Magic Missiles at a guy, then when he gets too close you hit him in the head!

If you CAN'T get the "light mace of many wands" houseruled in, anpther option would be to go with a Monk or Swordsage build, and use unarmed attacks. Keep your Rods inside the Casting Gloves, and just hit people with your fists or feet. Of course that loses out on a little bit of the "I am a wandslinger" flavor, since the wands will be hidden.

Wizzardman
2007-05-16, 02:12 PM
Well, any Gunsligner will know how to maintain his guns. You can marginalise the crafting thing if you want.
Or, you know, use it to make more wands of different spells. Then you can be a wandslinger and have a variety of different spell options--like take out your 'sawed-off shotwands' if you want to Fireball somebody, or pull tiny wands of Greater Missile Storm and Heal out of your boot in emergencies.

Plus, you get all these nice wands for much cheaper than having to buy each one.

Emperor Tippy
2007-05-16, 02:19 PM
If your DM isn't adverse to custom magic items you can get woundorous items made that happen to look like wands and happen to have 50 charges. But they don't require UMD or have the spell level limit.

The craft wondrous item feat can pretty much duplicate any of the other crafting feats.

"Its not a wand of magic missile, its a stick of magic missile":smallbiggrin:

OzymandiasVolt
2007-05-16, 02:33 PM
Of course it would cost more than a wand of magic missile as well. 1/3 more, to be precise.

Grug
2007-05-16, 03:55 PM
I once had the idea of a Dwarf wizard evocation specialist that cast spells with a gun. He would manipulate some kind of matrix on the gun for casting and then fire the thing out of the muzzle. Magic Missile, Fireball, Web, Lightning, Etc. Casting a scroll, he could stick it into a slot like a shotgun shell and use it that way. Wands the same way.

Indon
2007-05-16, 03:59 PM
Well, if you don't want to go too far in the "Hey, look at me, I have a wand!" direction, you could try for too far over in the other direction. I do believe Eberron offers the "Gun Mage" as a class.

OzymandiasVolt
2007-05-16, 07:15 PM
No, it doesn't. Guns don't exist in Eberron, magical or otherwise.

SpiderBrigade
2007-05-16, 07:44 PM
Gun Mage is, I think, from Iron Kingdoms. Which is really different.

Leon
2007-05-17, 03:50 AM
Gun Mage is, I think, from Iron Kingdoms. Which is really different.

Correct, very interesting setting aswell



Along the gun lines, i remember reading something of a metamagic item that is in the form of a pistol grip that allows use on a meta magic feat N/day (where n is the number i cant remember)

Pauwel
2007-05-17, 04:58 AM
Correct, very interesting setting aswell



Along the gun lines, i remember reading something of a metamagic item that is in the form of a pistol grip that allows use on a meta magic feat N/day (where n is the number i cant remember)

So, it's a metamagic rod that looks like a gun?
That's pretty cool. Me likes.

squishycube
2007-05-17, 05:45 AM
Sorry to go OT, but how did you get that flashing avatar? Its cool

Avatars are usually gif format. Gifs can be animated.


I once had the idea of a Dwarf wizard evocation specialist that cast spells with a gun. He would manipulate some kind of matrix on the gun for casting and then fire the thing out of the muzzle. Magic Missile, Fireball, Web, Lightning, Etc. Casting a scroll, he could stick it into a slot like a shotgun shell and use it that way. Wands the same way.
Consider that stolen sir, that is so cool!

OzymandiasVolt
2007-05-18, 01:25 PM
Leon, are you thinking of the metamagic wand grips? They're not gun-shaped. They are like wand warmers for the grip part of the wand. Only less lame.

Were-Sandwich
2007-05-18, 02:05 PM
You guys are great, thanks for the advice. Lesse....

Ill try and get my DM to rule in the light mace thing.

The artificer thing intrigues me, but so does the Sorceror dip thing.


All in all, this is very good advice, that I'll take into account.

(btw, am I the only one who's noticed BWL's distinct absence lately? I was expecting him to have popped up telling me my idea sucked and how I should just play a Wizard20 by now)

I can't reply in more detail now, as I need some sleep.

D Knight
2007-05-19, 08:31 AM
hey if you want a wand slinger try this. take a six shooter, now chop off the barral, extend the caseing to a inch and half less than the size of a wand. load rechargeable wands and put a rune of activation on the hammer. now you are a wandslinger. now have fun blastin sutff.

Nerd-o-rama
2007-05-20, 02:01 AM
(Bears With Lasers was banned some time ago for accumulation of infractions. Just FYI.)

My recommendation is Artificer(ECS)/Cannith Wand Adept(Sharn: City of Towers). Take whatever wand feats you like from Complete Arcane as well, particularly Dual Wand Wielder (basically replaces the last level of CWA) and Wandstrike for emergency melee damage. Artificer infusions, and I'm thinking particularly of Metamagic Item allow you a lot of "trick shots" with your wands. At level 7 or 8 or so, you get the Metamagic Spell Trigger class feature, which does the same thing all day (although it does cost extra charges, unlike the Metamagic Item infusion, which is just ridiculous.)

Plus, wands run out of charges. Would you rather have to go buy new ones, or make your own for 3/8 the price?

Were-Sandwich
2007-05-20, 04:38 AM
Your last point is very compelling. But I could also do that as a Warlock, whilst having the Take 10 On UMD checks thing. But I'd be a warlock, which is a severe disadvantage on its own.

I think I'll go Artificer as a primary clas, but go Warlcok if the Dm won't allow it because its form eberron (which a lot don't).

D Knight
2007-05-20, 06:03 PM
thats why u make the wands rechargable. that way when all charges are used up you do not have to spend time or alot of gold to get new wands.

SpiderBrigade
2007-05-20, 09:25 PM
D Knight, those are both fun ideas but they're solidly into the "ask the DM for a houserule" territory. Part of the idea I think is to find a way to do this concept without too many custom/houseruled abilities.

D Knight
2007-05-23, 09:22 PM
yes you are right but if allowed u can kick dragon but by yourself. oh you could "modif" it into a gatlin gun just for ,oh, an army (talk about over kill). single shot wands that are rechargable would work(15 fireball wands max).

SO enjoy while they stand!!:smallbiggrin:

Arbitrarity
2007-05-23, 09:30 PM
Get a bunch of eternal wands. 2/day uses.

And never, never let an artificer get their hands on a staff of wishes with one charge left. Ever. :smallwink:

Person_Man
2007-05-24, 09:42 AM
Play a Warlock. There are various wands and rods that improve their Eldritch blast, and they can do so every round, without fear of burning though expensive wands. You could even throw in a psychological flaw, saying that your Warlock can't mentally shoot his Eldritch blast unless he's holding a particular wand.

Another option is to use a Soulbow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060403a&page=2), that shoots mind arrows directly from his hands. Normally a Soulbow would use it with a magic bow (for extra damage/effects), but you can always create a custom magic item that has the same exact crunch but looks like a gun or wand.