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DreamOfTheRood
2007-05-16, 01:49 PM
A little about the concept: the character I've built is specifically for a wizard duel tournament with a 28-point buy at level 8. It is a heavily defensive caster with a few big nukes and a summoning ability. I'm not quite sure if it's viable in the setting, and I thought I'd run it past y'all.

With abjuration as my specialty school, I'll have slightly more powerful defensive abilities, but I'll be relying heavily on my nukes for damage. I'm more worried about my spellbook. I've never played a wizard before, and I'm unsure whether I calculated correctly the number of spells I'm allowed in my spellbook.

The whole idea here is to get touched by spells as little as possible. I've got a decent will save (+6), but I'm the kind of guy that likes to have a bit of an extra defense going on.

Tear it apart, mates.



Level 8 Wizard; Human Male; True Neutral
Ht: 6'2 Wt: 220
Looks: A tall, bald man with his head, chest and arms painted dark blue. Gray pants with many pockets and a belt with many pouches. May appear with boots or barefoot. Appears with a flat affect or terribly sad, unable to look combatants in the eye.

Str 10
Dex 12
Con 15
Int 16
Wis 14
Cha 8

HD: 8d4 (34 hp)
Base Attack Bonus: +4/ Speed 30ft./ Grapple Modifier: 4

Saves: Fort 4, Reflex 3, Will 8
AC 11, Touch 10(?), Flat-footed 10(?)

No Armor, No Shield

Feats: Scribe, Scroll, Combat Casting, Spell Focus (Conjuration), Augment Summoning

Equipment: Pants, Belt, Boots, Scrolls and Various and Sundry Magic Components

Specialty School: Abjuration
Prohibited Schools: Necromancy, Enchantment

All Level 0 Spells
Acid Splash/ Resistance*/ Detect Poison/ Detect Magic/ Read Magic/ Dancing Lights/ Flare/ Light/ Ray of Frost/ Ghost Sound/ Mage Hand/ Mending/ Message/ Open-Close/ Arcane Mark/ Prestidigitation

5 Level 1 Spells
Protection from Chaos-Evil-Good-Law*/ Shield*/ Magic Missile/ Burning Hands/ Expeditious Retreat

4 Level 2 Spells
Protection from Arrows*/ Resist Energy*/ Melf’s Acid Arrow/ Scorching Ray


4 Level 3 Spells
Dispel Magic*/ Protection from Energy*/ Explosive Runes*/ Displacement

3 Level 4 Spells
Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser*/ Invisibility, Greater/ Summon Monster IV

* denotes spells from the Abjuration school, in which I have specialized.

Indon
2007-05-16, 01:52 PM
I recommend getting a spell which allows you to see invisible, if other wizards are going to be running around with invisibility spells.

Jacob Orlove
2007-05-16, 02:00 PM
Do you get magic items for this? If not, your numbers are probably pretty reasonable. Also, will there be a chance to cast spells before the match starts? If not, you'll want to avoid taking so many buff spells, since you won't have time to cast them all.

Displacement actually gives a worse miss chance than Mirror Image.

Acid Arrow and Burning Hands are both pretty terrible.

Resist Energy and Protection from Energy are both redundant, and it's not clear what energy type you'd want to protect yourself against (well, probably fire).

Protection from Arrows grants DR, which is only effective against physical attacks.

As mentioned, See Invisible is a good idea. You might want a second summon spell, too.

Mage Armor would be good to have, as would Fly. Remember, they can summon too!

Jasdoif
2007-05-16, 02:05 PM
5 Level 1 Spells
Protection from Chaos-Evil-Good-Law*/ Shield*/ Magic Missile/ Burning Hands/ Expeditious Retreat
That's 8 level 1 spells. Protection from Chaos, Protection from Evil, Protection from Good and Protection from Law are all different spells; they're listed together like that because their effects are identical except for which alignment they have their effects on.

This is OK, because it looks like you only have 2 spells (above cantrip) for every wizard level; and your first level gives you 3+Int. Assuming you started with 14 Int and bumped it up at 4th and 8th, you should have three more spells then you counted, which will account for the 3 extra protection spells. You should consider switching a couple of them out for different spells though, I don't think you'll really need all four.


Anyway, so you have... 16 cantrips at 1 page each
8 level 1 spells at 1 page each
4 level 2 spells at 2 pages each
4 level 3 spells at 3 pages each
3 level 4 spells at 4 pages each.
That's 56 pages. A spellbook has 100 pages, so you're fine.

ClericofPhwarrr
2007-05-16, 02:19 PM
Personally, I'd swap those stats around. Str 8, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 8 looks a lot better. Add the 2 bonus ability points at 4 and 8 to Int for an Int of 20 at duel-time (and higher DCs).

If you don't want to get touched, Dex helps you go first, and Int helps make it count. The best defense is a good offense.

Also, read this for general wizard insight: Logic Ninja's guide to wizards (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18500&highlight=Logic+Ninja+batman+wizard+guide).

Emperor Tippy
2007-05-16, 02:26 PM
Go Grey elf for the extra 2 Int if you can. And what books are you allowed?

DreamOfTheRood
2007-05-16, 04:45 PM
We're running it off of d20srd, so I'm going to have to go through and see what races they have on there. Looks like I'm going to have to rejigger some of these spells.

HomerHT
2007-05-16, 05:21 PM
So you're in a duel with other wizards. Do you get rounds to prepare before actually fighting? Or are you just thrown into a pit and told to start throwing spells around? The answer to those questions dictates your strategy, but here's some general pointers for what you seem to want to do.

Since you seem to want to summon for the fight, get some more buffs for what you plan on summoning with Summon Monster IV (Celestial Lion would be nice). Toss away burning hands and expeditious retreat and replace with eh...Mage Armor for your lion or whatever and Grease, maybe. Magic Missile is even iffy because, face it, what mage isn't using Shield?

You'll need to see invisibility somehow. Glitterdust does nicely. Pitch Acid Arrow for it. It's a Wizard's duel, so no one should be shooting arrows at you. So get rid of Protection from Arrows for, I don't know, another damage dealer? Presumably you have to actually kill the guy you're fighting.

I'm really unsure as to why you have Explosive Runes. An enemy wizard isn't going to stop and read some words you scribbled somewhere during the fight. Since you want another damage dealer, I guess Fireball or Lightning. Maybe another Dispel? Those are always good to have in mage duels.

Level 4 looks fine, so let's look at feats. First, you don't have enough of them for your level. Scribe + 2(1st) + 1(3rd) + 1(W 5th) + 1(6th)

Combat Casting is ungood. Go for Skill focus: Concentration.
Spell Focus (Conjuration) does nothing, as none of the conjuration spells you'll be using have saves. Switch it out for Spell Focus (Evocation) to make it a bit more difficult to dodge your hurty spells.
Augment Summoning is fine so long as you summon.

I gotta go grab/eat dinner, but these small suggestions should make you more of a competitor in the duel. Just be sure you grab 3 more feats because you got too few the first time around.

DreamOfTheRood
2007-05-16, 07:19 PM
This is why I need you.

I took out Combat Casting, but I need Spell Focus (Conjuration) for the Augment Summoning feat. So, SF(C) stays. I'm thinking about Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration and Maximize Spell.

The new spell book looks like this:


All Level 0 Spells
Acid Splash/ Resistance*/ Detect Poison/ Detect Magic/ Read Magic/ Dancing Lights/ Flare/ Light/ Ray of Frost/ Ghost Sound/ Mage Hand/ Mending/ Message/ Open-Close/ Arcane Mark/ Prestidigitation

5 Level 1 Spells
Protection from Chaos/ Protection from Law*/ Shield*/ Magic Missile/ Glitterdust/ Grease/ Shocking Grasp/ Color Spray

4 Level 2 Spells
Scorching Ray/ Resist Energy*/ Bear’s Endurance/ Bull’s Strength


4 Level 3 Spells
Dispel Magic*/ Protection from Energy*/ Lightning Bolt/ Summon Monster III

3 Level 4 Spells
Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser*/ Invisibility, Greater/ Summon Monster IV

HomerHT
2007-05-16, 10:02 PM
Ah, yes, then most certainly do not get rid of Spell Focus: Conjuration. My bad :smalltongue:

Got too many 1st level spells again. As for feats, nix Spell Penetration unless someone is going to be summoning something with spell resistance. In which case, your own summon should be able to handle it. There are better feats. Let's have a looksee...*scrolls through the SRD*

Hmm, Improved Counterspell might be pretty good. Lets you save your Dispel Magic to actually dispel your opponent's defenses as opposed to using it to counter his Dispel Magic or whatever. You want to keep your protections on. However, this will come at the cost of a Level 4 spell. If you go this route, swap Greater Invisibility for a random abjuration spell and swap Bull's Strength for Invisibility.

Improved Initiative is fantastic. One of the save booster feats helps versus wizards. And Spell Focus (Evocation) can't hurt too much for what you're going to be doing.

Jasdoif
2007-05-16, 10:18 PM
Got too many 1st level spells again.Looks like he just forgot to update the count; the total spells are right for a wizard starting with 14 Int.


Hmm, Improved Counterspell might be pretty good.The problem with Improved Counterspell is that you still have to ready an action for the counterspell. That means you aren't casting, for the hopes of cancelling the other guy's spells. Which has uses in a party, but in a duel you don't have many actions to spare.

ClericofPhwarrr
2007-05-16, 10:22 PM
the total spells are right for a wizard starting with 14 Int.

Again, this is a bad idea. Int is THE score you need, then Dex (for initiative), then Wis or Con for saves and HP (but as a wizard, getting hit means you're failing). Bump that Int up.

Dausuul
2007-05-16, 10:24 PM
This is why I need you.

I took out Combat Casting, but I need Spell Focus (Conjuration) for the Augment Summoning feat. So, SF(C) stays. I'm thinking about Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration and Maximize Spell.

The new spell book looks like this:

For duelling another wizard, you are very unlikely to need Spell Penetration. Wizards don't normally have spell resistance, unless they're drow, in which case they gave up two caster levels to get it and you pwn them anyway.

If you're going to be summoning heavily, you may wish to consider switching your specialty school to Conjuration. Then you can take the Rapid Summoning (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#rapidSummoning) variant, which will dramatically improve your chances of successfully casting your summon spells. Otherwise, you have to spend an entire round (start of your turn, through the other guy's turn, all the way to the start of your next turn) casting, and the other guy can just zap you with a direct-damage spell and ruin your concentration. Under the circumstances, I don't think you really need a familiar.

It's a good idea to pick one strategy and specialize in it, rather than going all over the map. Augmented summons are okay (and have the advantage that you can cast them while invisible), but there is always the danger of the other guy dispelling your summons. Give some thought to black tentacles (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blackTentacles.htm). This spell makes a wizard's life very unpleasant. Your caster level plus 8 versus a wizard's BAB plus Strength? Yes please.

Prep an extra one in case he has dimension door, and you may be able to win the duel right there.

(By the same token, it's not a bad idea to have your own dimension door ready, lest the other guy do the same thing to you...)

Jasdoif
2007-05-17, 12:11 AM
Again, this is a bad idea. Int is THE score you need, then Dex (for initiative), then Wis or Con for saves and HP (but as a wizard, getting hit means you're failing). Bump that Int up.I second the motion. Get that starting Int of 18 with your point-buy, and bump it up twice to get 20. The increased save DCs and extra spell slots will do you good. This'll also get you two more 1st-level spells.

As for your existing spell list, let me make a few notes/suggestions here.



Level 1 Spells
Protection from Chaos/ Protection from Law*For the sake of a duel, I would suggest Protection from Good and Protection from Evil instead. None of summon monster lists (from I to IV at least) have CN or LN creatures, while they do have NG and NE.

Don't forget, the spells prevent physical contact (like natural weapon attacks) from summoned creatures of the matching alignment.


Level 1 Spells
GlitterdustGlitterdust is a 2nd level spell. A very handy one, but you need to put it in the 2nd level list.


Level 1 Spell
Shocking Grasp...why do you have a melee range spell?


Level 2 Spells
Bear’s Endurance/ Bull’s StrengthBe advised that these spells don't stack with Augment Summoning, since they both provide a +4 enhancement bonus. You likely won't have much use for Bull's Strength yourself.


Level 3 Spells
Dispel Magic*/ Protection from Energy*/ Lightning Bolt/ Summon Monster IIIWhile all OK, you might consider that having both Resist Energy and Protection from Energy is a little redundant. Personally, I'd prefer to have stinking cloud (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/stinkingCloud.htm) available. Enemy fails the Fort Save and they're pretty much at your mercy.


Level 4 Spells
Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser*/ Invisibility, Greater/ Summon Monster IVHmm, tough one...having Dimension Door would be a really good idea, never know when you'll need to escape the otherwise-inescapable. You could have 4 level-4 spells in your book, I'm guessing you have one in a 1st-level spell instead of 4th; so scratch "shocking grasp" off your list and write "dimension door" here.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-05-17, 12:30 AM
Too bad you can't qualify for Abjurant Champion before 8th level (without taking enough melee levels to nerf your casting ability completely), because that's right up your alley.

I second Swift Summoning... your familiar is a liability not a benefit.

Here's a cheezy tactic... target the other guy's familiar. If it dies, he looses a level.

I'd suggest switching out Displacement and Improved Invisibility for Mirror Image. Displacement and Invisible both have 50% chance of missing you (and invisibility is easily negated). Mirror Image, on the other hand, creates 1d4+2 images. That's anywhere from a 25% chance (3 images created, for a total of one in four being the real you) to a 14% chance (6 images for a 1 in 7 odds). Mirror Image is the clear winner. Slap a Dimension Door in place of the Improved Invis.

How about this for a line-up...

Round 1: Mirror Image. You don't want to be hit
Round 2: Summon obnoxious critter.
Round 3: If opponent mage is invisible, cast See Invisible... on your summoned critter. Or cast Glitterdust on the last known location. Otherwise, hit him with something obnoxious like a Scorching Ray. At level 8, this is 8d6 damage if both rays hit. Unless he's gone Displacement or mirror Image, you're probably gonna hit and he's probably gonna die.

JaronK
2007-05-17, 03:29 AM
I'm not sure what all is on the d20 SRD... is PHBII allowed? If so, I'd actually switch to a conjuration specialist, and then drop the familiar, granting you the ability to make immediate action teleports. These can be great for dodging enemy attacks. If you can get out of the way of your opponent's kill spells, that's a few more rounds to kill them back. With an Int of 18, you can dodge 4 times, which should be plenty of time to land a killing blow.

If you're not doing that, there's something to be said for Improved Familiar. Get something that can grapple if you can.

JaronK

Ikkitosen
2007-05-17, 06:23 AM
Bear in mind that if you rely on summons you must have some way to get rid of your opponent's protection from X spell or you're SOL.

If you have access to more books there's a feat in CM (I think) that allows you to summon things and expend a spell to have them affected by said spell - See Invisibility might be good since you can't tell your lion where he is :smallwink:

Remember though, you need another way to do the guy in since PF* will screww all your summons.

Sabattus
2007-05-17, 07:03 AM
Unfortunately, he only has access to SRD... which doesn't have Complete Mage or PHBII info on it. Hell, if it did I'd consider pointing him towards the Master Specialist PrC.

Here's what I'd likely go for, were I an abjuration specialist.

Assuming a start of 16 INT...

Level 1 (8 spells):
> shield*, color spray, magic missile, mage armor, protection from evil, expeditious retreat, obscuring mist, grease
Level 2 (4 spells):
> protection from arrows*, mirror image, glitterdust, scorching ray
Level 3 (4 spells):
> dispel magic*, summon monster III, lightning bolt, stinking cloud
Level 4 (4 spells):
> lesser globe of invulnerability*, Evard's black tentacles, summon monster IV, dimension door

Memorized (assuming you get to 18 INT):

4 (+1) (+1 abj) 1st
> shield*, magic missile, expeditious retreat, grease, obscuring mist, protection from evil*
3 (+1) (+1 abj) 2nd
> protection from arrows*, mirror image, glitterdust, scorching ray (x2)
3 (+1) (+1 abj) 3rd
> dispel magic*, lightning bolt, stinking cloud, summon monster III (x2)
2 (+1) (+1 abj) 4th
> lesser globe of invulnerability*, (Evard's) black tentacles, summon monster IV, dimension door

20 INT gives you an additional 1st level spell in spellbook and memorized. That gives you a solid grouping of spells to work from. If the fight was against something other than another wizard, or if it was against someone without access to evocation, I'd recommend invisibility and conjuring up nasties to go harass them -- but most likely any wizard with fireball would see you disappear and simply blast the area you were last in.

ClericofPhwarrr
2007-05-18, 12:58 AM
Why stop at 20 Int? Go with Tippy's suggestion and be a Gray Elf (in the SRD). It's the perfect core wizard class. +2 to Int and Dex for -2 to Str and Con--can it get any better?

22 Int means that saving against your higher-level spells will be a rather daunting task. Against a 4th level save-or-suck/lose spell, your opponent now has to make a 20, instead of a 17 (which is the case with your current Int of 16). And it's so easy to get! 18 from point buy, +2 from Gray Elf, +2 from level bonuses. Done.

Heck, with that Int, you've got buckets of skill points (so cross-class the Tumble skill as much as possible for a slight precaution against anything summoned next to you.)

Greyen
2007-05-18, 07:12 AM
OK..brain fart but an idea...I don't have any books near me ATM but...Wizards suck at Fort save right?

Ok If I remember right split ray is a +2 Level Adjust. With a 20 int DC for a Split Ray of Enfeeblement (-1d6+? STR twice) thats an 18 Fort, yes you need to hit with your dex of 16 and BAB of 8th wiz (+4?) thats easy. Suddenly your opponent loses? Correct me if I am wrong.

Dausuul
2007-05-18, 07:17 AM
OK..brain fart but an idea...I don't have any books near me ATM but...Wizards suck at Fort save right?

Ok If I remember right split ray is a +2 Level Adjust. With a 20 int DC for a Split Ray of Enfeeblement (-1d6+? STR twice) thats an 18 Fort, yes you need to hit with your dex of 16 and BAB of 8th wiz (+4?) thats easy. Suddenly your opponent loses? Correct me if I am wrong.

You're wrong, I'm afraid. :smallsmile:

Ray of enfeeblement is a Strength penalty, not Strength damage. That means multiple rays of enfeeblement do not stack. Moreover, the spell specifically says it can't take your Strength below 1.

It's great for crippling fighter-types, but all it will do to a wizard is raise said wizard's encumbrance level.

(Also, there's no saving throw.)

Sabattus
2007-05-18, 07:26 AM
Additionally, he's a specialist in abjuration, and his banned schools are enchantment and necromancy. That takes a great many of the save-or-suck spells out of the equation right there -- no Confusion, no Fear, no Enervation, no Ray of Enfeeblement, and so forth and so on.

There's Slow, maybe, out of Transmutation.

Greyen
2007-05-18, 07:31 AM
Doh, thought it might be too good to be true but that's what posting without research does for me.

Arbitrarity
2007-05-18, 07:31 AM
Ray of enfeeblement and ray of exhaustion... there's cheese.


EDIT: True. He has conjuration, which is good. Black tentacles, glitterdust, web, all OK.

Mind you, on the list of UberCheese in my book is old grey elf at level 8 with base 18 INT and a +2 headband, as well as spellcasting prodigy. 28 INT anyone?

Abstruse
2007-05-18, 01:49 PM
Ray of enfeeblement and ray of exhaustion... there's cheese.

Both necromancy, unfortunately -- one of his banned schools.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-05-18, 01:58 PM
Stinking Cloud. Save or loose. Fort save or become nausiated. What does nausiated do?


Nauseated
Experiencing stomach distress. Nauseated creatures are unable to attack, cast spells, concentrate on spells, or do anything else requiring attention. The only action such a character can take is a single move action per turn.

In other words, loose.

When he fails his fort save, hit him with a Black Tentacles to keep him in the stinking cloud. He can't DimDoor out because he is nausiated. This keeps him from taking a move action to get out.

Then just blast away with Scorching Ray until he falls over

Edit: Grab Improved Initiative so you can go first. He who casts the first spell wins in a mage duel

Rincewind
2007-05-18, 02:02 PM
Learn to cast teleport...

ClericofPhwarrr
2007-05-18, 02:11 PM
Speaking of which, if you're allowed to change it, get rid of evocation rather than enchantment or necromancy. I mean, direct damage? Yeesh.

akira72703
2007-05-18, 02:36 PM
I would also throw Blindness into the second level list (Dont know if its in the SRD). Alot of the stuff hes going to be able to affect you with is going to require him to know where you are. I also agree with the tentacles stinking cloud combo.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-05-18, 02:38 PM
Learn to cast teleport...

Which is a 5th level spell. He's 8th level, won't be able to cast 5th level spells yet. Best you can do is Dimension Door.

Emperor Tippy
2007-05-18, 02:40 PM
And DD isn't that great in combat until you can get it quickened in some way.

It ends your turn once you use it, so you can't port and then cast a quickened spell or even take a move action.

When you can get DD quickened you can cast it after you take your actions so that you can retreat.

Jacob Orlove
2007-05-18, 03:59 PM
One tip on using direct damage. Instead of taking your turn to blast him with Scorching Ray, use your turn to ready an action to blast him with Scorching Ray when he tries to cast a spell. Especially without magic items, his Concentration modifier will only be about +8, which means that on average, his checks will fail every time against 8d6 damage. That means you're killing him, and he's doing nothing.

Jasdoif
2007-05-18, 04:18 PM
One tip on using direct damage. Instead of taking your turn to blast him with Scorching Ray, use your turn to ready an action to blast him with Scorching Ray when he tries to cast a spell. Especially without magic items, his Concentration modifier will only be about +8, which means that on average, his checks will fail every time against 8d6 damage. That means you're killing him, and he's doing nothing.His checks against 4d6 twice. You make a check each time you're damaged, and each ray requires a separate attack roll before its damage is applied so its separate.

The odds of disrupting the spell are still pretty dang good however; even with maxed Concentration and Skill Focus an 8th-level wizard will only have +14 (assuming average Constitution), casting a 4th-level spell taking the average 14 damage will have a DC of 28. About 12% chance of making both checks, not too likely. If he doesn't have Skill Focus (say he took Combat Casting instead, which does nothing here), that drops to 4%.

fleet
2007-05-18, 09:01 PM
Just as an idea you could win a wizards duel against most evokers with just 2 second level spells.
First you summon a fog.
Then you summon a fiendish insect. Preferably a scorpion.

If you continue summoning insects they can use tremor sense to detect their enemy while you have total concealment from just about any thing he can throw at you. Also fog lacks a cheap counterspell. Thus while invsibilty can be glitterdusted fog requires a hefty third level dispell.

Dausuul
2007-05-18, 10:03 PM
Just as an idea you could win a wizards duel against most evokers with just 2 second level spells.
First you summon a fog.
Then you summon a fiendish insect. Preferably a scorpion.

If you continue summoning insects they can use tremor sense to detect their enemy while you have total concealment from just about any thing he can throw at you. Also fog lacks a cheap counterspell. Thus while invsibilty can be glitterdusted fog requires a hefty third level dispell.

Or he can just throw AoE spells into the area covered by the fog. Like... say... black tentacles, which really is pretty close to a win button in low-level caster duels.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-05-21, 12:31 AM
Just as an idea you could win a wizards duel against most evokers with just 2 second level spells.
First you summon a fog.
Then you summon a fiendish insect. Preferably a scorpion.

If you continue summoning insects they can use tremor sense to detect their enemy while you have total concealment from just about any thing he can throw at you. Also fog lacks a cheap counterspell. Thus while invsibilty can be glitterdusted fog requires a hefty third level dispell.

Why bother casting a Fog when you can cast Stinking Cloud, get all the benefits, plus being a Win button since your opponent wizard's Fort save is abysmal at best?

Middle Snu
2007-07-11, 02:34 AM
I'm with the "Round 1: Cast Evard's Black Tentacles. Win." crowd.

As I see it, the winner of this duel will be the first to cast Evard's Black Tentaces. Therefore, boost Dex as high as it'll go and take Improved Init.

The problem with the Stinking Cloud tactic is that the enemy wizard might, in fact, make his save. But no wizard is going to have +12 to grapple.

Just Alex
2007-07-11, 02:48 AM
So, unless my math is wrong, a bunch of level 8 wizards should have between 20 and 30 hp. If you go Grey Elf, pump all points into Dex and Int, then take Improved Initiative, Lucky Start, Sudden Empower, Sudden Maximize, assuming you only have one fight a day, you win hard. You should, barring terrible rolls, always get initiative, and your first action is a 72 damage fireball. Even if the opposing wizard saves, it's still enough to drop the average wizard straight to -10.

Swooper
2007-07-11, 04:26 AM
You forget the fact that this is SRD only, Just Alex. Otherwise, you're right on target - Evocation is normally considered "bad" because it "only" deals damage, and standard issue monsters come with lots of hit points, much of the time. However, when facing a wizard who's hit points are even worse than his reflex save, something as wonderfully simple as a fireball might do the trick. You can't Maximise it however, or even Empower it, at 8th level, and you want to be absolutely certain you destroy your target in the first round. You might be better off with an Empowered Scorching Ray, perhaps, that's two shots of 6d6 - assuming both hit (with BAB around +7 or +8 - better if you work on it, only horrible dice rolls will miss on touch attacks) and deal avarage damage you should drop any wizard without fire resistance. I'd suggest Energy Substituting it into sonic to throw them a curveball, but that's non-SRD. There's propably a better way to deal enough damage, but I can't think of one off the top of my head (seriously, why on earth does Ice Storm only deal 5d6 damage? It's a fourth level spell!).

Fixer
2007-07-11, 06:18 AM
Does casting Black Tentacles break a normal 2nd level invisibility spell? That was something I was never quite clear on. If he drops enough direct damage spells he can simply cast a normal invisibility spell and keep casting indirect damage spells.

Swooper
2007-07-11, 06:28 AM
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/invisibility.htm

For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe.
So, if you target Black Tentacles at an unoccupied area, you stay cloaked. If there's someone there (even if you didnt know), you decloak.

Inyssius Tor
2007-07-11, 09:45 AM
Huh. Could a mage just cast Invisibility on himself, and then spam Light (or something) spells until he decloaks? It would be an awfully inefficient way to find someone, but would it work?

Kurald Galain
2007-07-11, 10:34 AM
Huh. Could a mage just cast Invisibility on himself, and then spam Light (or something) spells until he decloaks? It would be an awfully inefficient way to find someone, but would it work?

By RAW, light targets the object touched, so no. For related spells,

"Spells such as bless that specifically affect allies but not foes are not attacks for this purpose, even when they include foes in their area."

In other words, probably not. And by RAI, certainly not.

Sornjss Lichdom
2007-07-11, 08:15 PM
Heres a thought, it may have alrdy been said, but chuck out combat casting, and jsut get skill focus -concentration- then u get a +3 all the time instead of +4 som of the time.

and the only reason to keep evocation is for contengincy, and that can be doubled over by shadow conjuration. but conjuration has plenty of damage dealing.. plenty.