CTP's Guide to the Pathfinder Psychic

[CockroachTeaParty]

I've once again wasted a large portion of my time making a new guide! This one's for the psychic, introduced in Occult Adventures.

Link to the Google Doc (https://docs.google.com/document/d/19ucZQWoJVw02H_7uyEeGrex4A-MgVRzfz1f-yUjG9uQ/edit?usp=sharing)

If anyone has items, tricks and tips, etc., feel free to chip in your 2 cp.

Also, haven't done a Google doc guide before, so hopefully the link is viewable, etc.

Edit: Ah, nuts, I forgot to add a section on psychic duels to the appendix. Will update in the future!

[Psyren]

Excellent work! This was going to be my next guide but I'm glad someone beat me to it.

Note that when comparing Planar Ally/Binding to Simulacrum, remember that the former two give you a full-strength version of the creature. With the latter, it's up to the GM exactly what you get, because the "half-HD" provision can mean a lot of different things.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Excellent work! This was going to be my next guide but I'm glad someone beat me to it.

Note that when comparing Planar Ally/Binding to Simulacrum, remember that the former two give you a full-strength version of the creature. With the latter, it's up to the GM exactly what you get, because the "half-HD" provision can mean a lot of different things.

True. Simulacrum has just such wacky potential; it's probably not for most games. Perhaps I should dial my rating back, or flag it...

[dpatino]

You mention that their casting is subtle. While it may be more subtle than other forms of magic, it's still noticeable enough that you would be able to make a spellcraft check. There will be some audible or visual effect happening.

[CockroachTeaParty]

You mention that their casting is subtle. While it may be more subtle than other forms of magic, it's still noticeable enough that you would be able to make a spellcraft check. There will be some audible or visual effect happening.

True; nothing in the rules says psychic magic is 'immune' to being identified by Spellcraft, and I never make that claim.

This subtlety is most useful against non-casters, or in stealth situations.

[Novawurmson]

Glad to see another Occult Adventurers guide out there, and a good one, too. Mind if I add it to the compendium?

[CockroachTeaParty]

Glad to see another Occult Adventurers guide out there, and a good one, too. Mind if I add it to the compendium?

Do it up! I was just about to request it myself.

[Ilorin Lorati]

So what I'm getting out of this is that there is finally a caster that gets their money's worth out of their secondary stat.

[Vhaidara]

So what I'm getting out of this is that there is finally a caster that gets their money's worth out of their secondary stat.

Hey, wizard gets plenty out of Con.

[Ilorin Lorati]

Hey, wizard gets plenty out of Con.

You know what I mean. :smalltongue:


I do think the wording on the Android should be reversed, however (meaning blue default and orange with a more restrictive interpretation), since the only comment made in regards to whether or not it was intended was during playtesting - giving them plenty of time to note it in the final book (by stating that the caster must have emotions) and/or in subsequent FAQs.

That said, as someone living with a condition that leaves me stunted when dealing with the emotions of others, I'm a bit bias - I certainly do have emotions of my own even if people will occasionally call me emotionless.

[CockroachTeaParty]

So what I'm getting out of this is that there is finally a caster that gets their money's worth out of their secondary stat.

Yes, they get a nice boost from their secondary stat, certainly. That said, phrenic amps aren't game-shattering fonts of infinite power. You're not especially harmed by having a modest secondary stat as a psychic, but investing in your secondary score later in your career is more rewarding than it is for the Arcanist, say.

And the android is an odd case, certainly. It's open to interpretation.

[cfalcon]

And the android is an odd case, certainly. It's open to interpretation.

Within one day of the android psychic being brought up, there was a dev response. The response was no.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rn8x?General-Discussion-Spells-and-Magic

"
Androids can either take the ability to gain emotions or take the Logical Spell feat and pay for metamagic like the NPC in Shattered Star Book 5 who has still spell on all her spells. You can't provide an emotion component if you are emotionless.
"

Also, not that this is useful feedback, but OP's guide is very helpful to me.

[Milo v3]

With the latter, it's up to the GM exactly what you get, because the "half-HD" provision can mean a lot of different things.

What? I was sure the bestiary has rules for lowering the HD of monsters.

[Psyren]

What? I was sure the bestiary has rules for lowering the HD of monsters.

It does, but those rules are very broad - they are the reverse of the adding hit dice rules, which "can include spellcasting capability and other powers." Thus the GM has final say over exactly what a simulacrum of creature X can ultimately do, or how powerful its abilities are.

[CockroachTeaParty]

The Occult Origins goodies have been added to the PFSRD, so I'm getting to them as I find them. I've updated the Psychic guide with the new disciplines. Wow, Rebirth is a doozy!

[Slithery D]

Speaking of rebirth, can a spell caster who adds other class spells to his list scribe them on scrolls? My guess is yes, but does he have to class emulate UMD them? Technically it got written as a psychic spell, even if it's not normally on that list and isn't on your list anymore...

I also feel like rebirth combos well with amnesiac. 3+ floating spells per day.

[Psyren]

Speaking of rebirth, can a spell caster who adds other class spells to his list scribe them on scrolls? My guess is yes, but does he have to class emulate UMD them? Technically it got written as a psychic spell, even if it's not normally on that list and isn't on your list anymore...

I also feel like rebirth combos well with amnesiac. 3+ floating spells per day.

"Psychic spell" is a category of magic just like "divine spell" or "arcane spell." If a scroll does not match your category, you must use UMD and emulate an appropriate class to use it, just like a cleric would need UMD to activate a wizard scroll even if the spell was on his list too.

[Slithery D]

"Psychic spell" is a category of magic just like "divine spell" or "arcane spell." If a scroll does not match your category, you must use UMD and emulate an appropriate class to use it, just like a cleric would need UMD to activate a wizard scroll even if the spell was on his list too.

Right, but Mnemonic Esoterica provides:
Select a single additional spellcasting class. Once per day when you prepare your spells, you can add one spell from this class’s spell list to your spells known and class spell list for 24 hours. This spell must be 1 level lower than the highest-level spell you can cast, and you cast it as if it were psychic magic. And Scribe Scroll:
You can create a scroll of any spell that you know.It's on my class list and it's cast as a psychic spell while I know it, so when I scribe a fireball that I learn through this ability, is it a psychic fireball, or an arcane fireball that I can nevertheless cast from a scroll normally?

I think the RAW is that I just scribed a psychic fireball spell, but the RAI is that I scribed an arcane fireball that I can nevertheless cast as long as I have the spell through this ability. Can I cast other fireball scrolls? Use wands? Why or why not?

Or maybe the RAI is just that you know the spell and can cast it but can't scribe it at all for some reason.

I guess a partial answer would be how do Cleric's with domains that provide arcane spells handle this? Do they scribe a divine version that's usable by other Clerics without the relevant domain, or do they scribe an arcane version that they can nevertheless use? Or neither?

[Psyren]

Right, but Mnemonic Esoterica provides: And Scribe Scroll: It's on my class list and it's cast as a psychic spell while I know it, so when I scribe a fireball that I learn through this ability, is it a psychic fireball, or an arcane fireball that I can nevertheless cast from a scroll normally?

Psychic Fireball:

"(The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his class.)"

It's no different than a Fire Domain cleric scribing a divine fireball.

[Slithery D]

Thanks, I'd never encountered the issue before, and finally came around to the above view when looking at the "use a scroll" rules.

So it looks like a Rebirth Psychic could use Mnemonic Esoterica to create and stockpile off list spells, but unless they currently know the spell they're going to have to UMD it, and so will everyone else, because it'll be wrong category or not on their list for everyone but a Rebirth Psychic who grabbed the spell that day.

I guess this could be mildly useful combined with Dangerously Curious and Pragmatic Activator traits to stockpile spells during downtime for personal use, or you could just hand them off to a party member with a high UMD for party utility use.

[Slithery D]

Just a note/reminder that there are three new disciplines from Occult Origins and Occult Realms to add. Plus some noteworthy spells in both, and psi-tech abilities in Occult Realms that can be taken in place of feats or amplifications.

[avr]

It's worth noting that the PF devs recently came down on the side of spell casting creating floating runes or something even if both stilled and silent. It's not a FAQ I'd use, but for those that do it makes psychic spell casting no more subtle than any other sort.

[Psyren]

It's worth noting that the PF devs recently came down on the side of spell casting creating floating runes or something even if both stilled and silent. It's not a FAQ I'd use, but for those that do it makes psychic spell casting no more subtle than any other sort.

Actually it is more subtle - the feat to hide spellcasting is easier for psychic spellcasters to use than non-psychic ones.

[Milo v3]

Actually it is more subtle - the feat to hide spellcasting is easier for psychic spellcasters to use than non-psychic ones.

The feat hides the manifestation for arcane, divine, and psychic casting, but the arcane and divine casters still have their hands waving about so that needs a bluff check or something like that?

[Florian]

Oh yes, I'm so looking forward to seeing the Psi-tech stuff in the guide.

[Psyren]

The feat hides the manifestation for arcane, divine, and psychic casting, but the arcane and divine casters still have their hands waving about so that needs a bluff check or something like that?

Everyone needs a bluff check. But various factors modify the DC of that check, including not having a verbal component and not having a somatic component. So psychic spellcasters and creatures using SLAs start with an advantage relative to traditional spellcasters.

(It's pretty hefty too - IIRC it's like -8 DC or something like that.)

[Slithery D]

Everyone needs a bluff check. But various factors modify the DC of that check, including not having a verbal component and not having a somatic component. So psychic spellcasters and creatures using SLAs start with an advantage relative to traditional spellcasters.

(It's pretty hefty too - IIRC it's like -8 DC or something like that.)

It's -4 per component (V, S, M, F) and an additional -4 if it has a visible spell effect (i.e. fireball, but not charm person). If you succeed and it has a visible effect they still see the effect, they just don't know it came from you.

[Psyren]

It's -4 per component (V, S, M, F) and an additional -4 if it has a visible spell effect (i.e. fireball, but not charm person). If you succeed and it has a visible effect they still see the effect, they just don't know it came from you.

Indeed; so -8 DC if you lack V and S, which all psychic spells (and SLAs) do. Thought and Emotion components do not increase the DC.

SLAs further lack M and F components (well, most of them do) making them the easiest to hide of all.

[CockroachTeaParty]

I'll look into the new psi-tech stuff when I get a chance, although my mastery of the technology rules is... not really mastery at all.

[Florian]

I'll look into the new psi-tech stuff when I get a chance, although my mastery of the technology rules is... not really mastery at all.

The basics are pretty simple. Technological firearms are based on the regular firearms but take them one step further. For example, most regular weapons are always ranged touch attack and incorporate a free and stacking rapid shot feat.

Cyberware is an expensive but slotless way to get your usual enhancement bonus, limited by a combination of your stats (Con/Int).

Now psi-tech is interesting because it lets you breach limits. For example, you can install more cyberware than your scores would allow you to and you can keep using those weapon longer than your (very limited) ammo would last for.

In essence, yöu now have moved into being a bery very good ranged striker. Not a full blown gish, but still good.

[Slithery D]

The basics are pretty simple. Technological firearms are based on the regular firearms but take them one step further. For example, most regular weapons are always ranged touch attack and incorporate a free and stacking rapid shot feat.

Cyberware is an expensive but slotless way to get your usual enhancement bonus, limited by a combination of your stats (Con/Int).

Now psi-tech is interesting because it lets you breach limits. For example, you can install more cyberware than your scores would allow you to and you can keep using those weapon longer than your (very limited) ammo would last for.

In essence, yöu now have moved into being a bery very good ranged striker. Not a full blown gish, but still good.

If you can get the equipment. It's very expensive, so it would tie up a big part of your WBL and you'd need a feat for proficiency with a tech weapon. But yeah, a tech weapon with a dexterity boost cyber would synergize well with your discipline abilities and the "burn spell slots for recharge" psi-tech ability. You can hit stuff at range, and you can keep your weapon useable while replenishing your phrenic pool.

[Milo v3]

If you can get the equipment.

All cybertech costs the same as it's equivalent item would if it was slotless (x2). As far as I'm aware, most tech has costs similar to their magical equivalents, except for weapons which are screwy as hell.

[Florian]

The weapon prices are pretty ok for what they do and offer.

(The groupe I gm'ed Iron Gods for ended up with Paladin, Ranger, Slayer, Witch/Technomancer, one of them in even opted to place shocking burst and fiery burst on his plasmacaster)

[Slithery D]

All cybertech costs the same as it's equivalent item would if it was slotless (x2). As far as I'm aware, most tech has costs similar to their magical equivalents, except for weapons which are screwy as hell.

I mentioned cost without lookingup numbers, but the real issue is actual availability. If you're in Golarion there are no tech marts like there are magic marts, you have to find really rare crafting facilities and take crafting feats or work with/for the Technic League if you want cyberware especially.

I will note there's a (not very big) tech black market in the Black Markets supplement. The Tarnished Halls offer 6,000 gp base value and 32,000 purchase limit for non-Technic League endorsed items. Evil smugglers and pirates are probably easier to deal with than evil mages, even if you can't get the good stuff.

If you're playing Iron Gods, of course, this isn't going to be much of a problem, and this is an awesome discipline.

[Milo v3]

I mentioned cost without lookingup numbers, but the real issue is actual availability. If you're in Golarion there are no tech marts like there are magic marts, you have to find really rare crafting facilities and take crafting feats or work with/for the Technic League if you want cyberware especially.
*Shrug* Golarion is a weird setting, they try to keep everything in it's little bubble. I just ignore their fluff.

[CockroachTeaParty]

The basics are pretty simple. Technological firearms are based on the regular firearms but take them one step further. For example, most regular weapons are always ranged touch attack and incorporate a free and stacking rapid shot feat.

Cyberware is an expensive but slotless way to get your usual enhancement bonus, limited by a combination of your stats (Con/Int).

Now psi-tech is interesting because it lets you breach limits. For example, you can install more cyberware than your scores would allow you to and you can keep using those weapon longer than your (very limited) ammo would last for.

In essence, yöu now have moved into being a bery very good ranged striker. Not a full blown gish, but still good.

Oh, I've read the tech rules, I know what's up. I just have no experience seeing them in play, or have any useful advice on how to manage charges, deal with glitches, etc. It seems very campaign-specific.

[Psyren]

*Shrug* Golarion is a weird setting, they try to keep everything in it's little bubble. I just ignore their fluff.

I don't think it's reasonable to expect most DMs to be handing out power armor and laser rifles in the bazaar though. In this respect, Golarion's approach is in line with how the average table would handle it, if they even allowed tech stuff to begin with.

Either way, I think it's a niche enough combination to warrant a separate guide of its own, or at best an appendix.

[Slithery D]

A couple of the psi-tech abilities (the force field and laser beams ones) barely have any tech flavor and can be considered pretty normal, though.

[Florian]

Interesting and weird answers. On one hand, there's lots of talk about using semi-modern firearms and the Gunslinger class, something that is based on a very tiny and mostly far away area of the setting (Alkenstar, Mana Wastes), even asia-themed weapons are talked about and incorporated into builds, them originating a whole continent away, while the source for high-tech items (Numeria) is pretty easy to reach and lies at the banks of the Selen river, one of the most frequented trade routes in the setting. Bias?
(Not that I want to turn Golarion on a weird fantasy setting, I just want to understand the reaction to this)

[Psyren]

Spoilered for off-topic:

It's not quite accurate to say that Gunslingers are based on the the Mana Wastes. They merely originated there (out of necessity - gunpowder is pretty handy when magic doesn't work or is unreliable after all.) Since then they've matriculated to Taldor, Andoran and plenty of other places in the Inner Sea. The prevalence of magical firearms, which would be impossible to make in Alkenstar, proves that.

As for Numeria - it may be easy to reach geographically, but thanks to the numerous security systems/hostile robots and other monsters prowling around, as well as the jealous hoarding of the Technic League, the sci-fi stuff still isn't easily accessible or retrievable even if you can get there. Worse, if you do manage to acquire some tech items (and don't blow your head off) and make it back to another nation to start selling them, they may very well come after you or put a contract on your head, leaving you fleeing thieves and assassins all across the region.

If anyone wants to start a thread about firearms/technology in Golarion to discuss further I'd be happy to join, but the Psychic Handbook isn't really the place for this discussion.

[mostholycerebus]

How does this compare to the DPS Generalist Psion? In terms of Tier, utility, etc. They seem to have very similar chassis, just different power lists. Psions can nova, but Psychics get additional abilities...

[Psyren]

Psychic is T2, much like any other spontaneous 9th-level caster. They get some tricks Psions don't, most notably illusions - Psychics can turn invisible, create figments etc. They also get much better conjurations, including Planar Ally, Planar Binding, AND Gate. Psions still win in terms of action economy though.

I would rate them slightly stronger than psions for that reason, just as sorcerers are slightly stronger than psions.

[Slithery D]

In addition to action economy, I'd point out the Psion is much better at area blasting and direct damage than the Psychic. The Psychic has some good if narrow options at higher levels (Disintegrate and Horrid Wilting, mainly), but nothing as generally applicable as the Psion energy powers and their low level selection is pretty grim.

[Florian]

@Psyren:

This specific topic touches on the Psychic, so it is fitting here.
Seem as a general topic, though, we can really move it elsewhere.

@mostholycerberus:

Hard to compare that, as the whole DSP stuff caries more 3,5 legacy over, mostly in terms of economy of actions.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Yes, further discussion of tech-specific stuff should probably migrate elsewhere. ^_^;;

But I'll definitely agree that DSP psions are much better equipped for blasting. In some ways, metamagic is easier for them as well with the whole 'psionic focus' mechanic.

I appreciate that the pathfinder psychic is decidedly different than the psion in terms of flavor. There's similarities and overlap to be sure, but the Occult Psychic is closer to Lovecraft's dream cycle stories. They took pains to keep the psychic foreign and mysterious, and I like that many of their powers are a bit more subtle (at least to outside observers).

The occult psychic is closer to Inception, while the DSP psion is more like Akira. Crystals and giant explosions vs. incense and psychotropic mushrooms.

I interpret the DSP psion as a much more inwardly-focused class, concentrating on the potential of the individual. The occult psychic is in tune with things beyond, drawing mental power from the strange truths they seek in the hidden places of the waking world and dreams. I love both classes, and I could even see them operating in the same campaign side by side.

Of course, this is all just my own interpretation.

[Psyren]

I enjoy them both too. I was skeptical when Paizo announced their take would be "psychic magic" but I think it worked out well. Best part is that unlike 3.5, they don't need a "psionic section" in all the future splats - any new spell they come up with can just be added to a psychic caster's list and move on, and most of the same magic items will work too.

[andreww]

Interesting guide, thanks very much for writing it.

A couple of things did jump out at me. For a caster class which has quite so many debuffs on its list it is hard to rate Persistent Spell as anything other than Blue. Forcing two saves, especially when you have the knowledge skills to be likely to be able to identify weaker saves provides a major boost in the chance of getting those debuffs to land. Really it is just the cornerstone feat for any control orientated caster.

On traits it is very much worth including both Clever Wordplay and Student of Philosophy. Both turn Charisma skills into Int skills effectively allowing any Int primary class to easily act as the face character. With the recent FAQ/developer commentary on the way magic is always obvious it is useful to simply be able to steamroll most social encounters without relying on magic.

I also think you underrate Amnesiac. It's power is not in prebuffing or combat use. It is a downtime ability allowing you to potentially poach any spell from your entire list and giving you enormous flexibility. It is similar to the Rebirth ability if slightly less reliable.

[Slithery D]

CTP,

You definitely need to talk about Shadow Enchantment and Greater Shadow Enchantment once you get a hold of Occult Realms or they hit the PRD. They let you use an illusion to poach all your 2nd (5th) and below enchantment spells for only one spell known. The downside is they get an extra disbelief save up front, but even if they make that there's a 20% (60%) chance it hits anyway and they make the normal save.

Obviously this is great if you're not sure whether you want spell focus in illusion or enchantment - take it in illusion (including mindscapes and some other psychic only illusions) and it'll do double duty up to level 5 spells. Spell Perfect GSE with Greater Spell Focus and you've got access to any 5th or below enchantment at DC 20+Int (basically an auto heighten to level 6 + your GSF bonusx2) and you can slap a free Persistent Spell on to make Mass Suggestion, Dominate Person, Hold Monster, Confusion, and lots of memory effects all come out of one spell known. It's pretty amazing flexibility.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Interesting guide, thanks very much for writing it.

A couple of things did jump out at me. For a caster class which has quite so many debuffs on its list it is hard to rate Persistent Spell as anything other than Blue. Forcing two saves, especially when you have the knowledge skills to be likely to be able to identify weaker saves provides a major boost in the chance of getting those debuffs to land. Really it is just the cornerstone feat for any control orientated caster.

On traits it is very much worth including both Clever Wordplay and Student of Philosophy. Both turn Charisma skills into Int skills effectively allowing any Int primary class to easily act as the face character. With the recent FAQ/developer commentary on the way magic is always obvious it is useful to simply be able to steamroll most social encounters without relying on magic.

I also think you underrate Amnesiac. It's power is not in prebuffing or combat use. It is a downtime ability allowing you to potentially poach any spell from your entire list and giving you enormous flexibility. It is similar to the Rebirth ability if slightly less reliable.

Persistent Spell is certainly better than Heighten Spell, but your highest level spells will still have a higher save DC. Not sure what the math behind forcing two saves at a DC 2 lower, or one at a DC 2 higher works out to be, but it's certainly at least green. Not sure why I rated it black in the first place...

Those are good tips for trait selection, but there's entire guides out there for traits. I just mentioned a few that came to mind.

I added a new paragraph for Amnesiac. It's reminiscent of the Medium's Archmage spirit in many ways. I'm hesitant to rate it as better than the standard psychic; the Rebirth discipline alone is superior in nearly every way. The fact that the GM can just strip you of the entire archetype if they get tired of potential abuse is worthy of pause.

It also seems to encourage a lot of amnesia-plagued psychic characters, which is a bit of an RP straightjacket. You shouldn't feel gimped if you want to play a psychic without a specific mental disorder.


CTP,

You definitely need to talk about Shadow Enchantment and Greater Shadow Enchantment once you get a hold of Occult Realms or they hit the PRD. They let you use an illusion to poach all your 2nd (5th) and below enchantment spells for only one spell known. The downside is they get an extra disbelief save up front, but even if they make that there's a 20% (60%) chance it hits anyway and they make the normal save.

Obviously this is great if you're not sure whether you want spell focus in illusion or enchantment - take it in illusion (including mindscapes and some other psychic only illusions) and it'll do double duty up to level 5 spells. Spell Perfect GSE with Greater Spell Focus and you've got access to any 5th or below enchantment at DC 20+Int (basically an auto heighten to level 6 + your GSF bonusx2) and you can slap a free Persistent Spell on to make Mass Suggestion, Dominate Person, Hold Monster, Confusion, and lots of memory effects all come out of one spell known. It's pretty amazing flexibility.

Wow, that does sound cool. It probably wouldn't be as strong in a caster-heavy game, though, unless you take pains to somehow conceal what you're casting. A successful Spellcraft would probably give an enemy a hefty bonus on the disbelieve saving throw at the very least.

From a flavor perspective it's a bit puzzling, though. Shadow evocation and shadow conjuration are using the plane of shadow to simulate real phenomena (conjured items or creatures, or energy manipulation), but how does a shadow illusion replicate an enchantment spell?

I guess the mindscape spells expand the potential of illusion magic… so you’re making a partially-real illusion of mind-control? o_O??

[Slithery D]

I guess you're simulating real mental manipulation processes with fake ones? Yeah, it's pretty meta, I don't buy it either from a lore perspective, but I'll take it. Here's a similar curveball, though - can you shadow enchant a beneficial enchantment buff spell like Heroism? Does the beneficiary have to fail a save or hit the real percentage for it to work? Does it auto-fail if he knows you're casting an illusionary version on him? Can you never buff yourself unless you roll 20/60% real chance? Weird stuff.

Oh, and you can take spells 2nd/5th or lower of the enchantment school from the psychic, wizard, or sorcerer lists, NOT just your own. (Spell also available to Mesmerists and Bards). So not only does this give you broad access to extra spells for one spell known, it gives you access to off list spells, too. There aren't many Wiz/Sorc enchantment spells the Psychic doesn't already have, but there are some. (E.g. Symbol of Sleep/Laughter, some niche stuff from obscure publications.)

[andreww]

There is one other thing to note if you are going to weld yourself into Full Plate and strap on a Tower Shield.

If you are non proficient then the ACP applies to ability and skill checks:

Nonproficient with Armor Worn: A character who wears armor and/or uses a shield with which he is not proficient takes the armor's (and/or shield's) armor check penalty on attack rolls as well as on all Dexterity- and Strength-based ability and skill checks. The penalty for nonproficiency with armor stacks with the penalty for shields.

That means your initiative will be in the toilet. Charisma secondary psychics can get round it with Scion of War but that takes up a feat and means you have Charisma as your secondary instad of the far better Wisdom. You can further mitigate things with Steadfast Personality but that means sinking two feats to get any benefit.

On Persistent, it is sky blue. It is pretty much mandatory if you want to control. You can get away with Rods but you want it as a known feat if you want to control. Consider this situation:

You are facing off against an enemy giant. Your options are charm monster or persistent suggestion. Lets say it has a will save of +9. Assuming your level 2 DC is 20 if needs an 11 to save. A straight 50/50 chance. With persistent you just increased that to a 75% chance of success. Using the level 4 spell you went from a 50% chance to succeed to 60%.

Lets say you are now facing a mind flayer with a +14 will save. It needs a 6 to save against suggestion, only a 25% chance of success. Forcing two rolls makes that about 45%. Using a level 4 spell makes it about 35%.

What about if you are facing something hopeless like a core rogue with a will save of +4. Suggestion works 75% of the time. Add persistent and it works about 94% of the time. Use charm instead and the chance of success is 85%.

Adding persistent is pretty much always giving you a better chance of success than using a higher level spell. Of course you may get a better effect from the higher level spell but in terms of making things stick it is pretty brutal.

[Slithery D]

I don't agree that abilities that sub a different attribute for Dex on Initiative remove the non-proficient penalty. I'd say it's a still a Dex check, you just use a different modifier. The Scion of War text supports this. You use your Cha modifier; you don't convert it to a Cha test.

The rest is correct, a lot of people arguing over whether ACP applies to Initiative miss the non-proficient clause.

[Psyren]

I don't agree that abilities that sub a different attribute for Dex on Initiative remove the non-proficient penalty. I'd say it's a still a Dex check, you just use a different modifier. The Scion of War text supports this. You use your Cha modifier; you don't convert it to a Cha test.

The rest is correct, a lot of people arguing over whether ACP applies to Initiative miss the non-proficient clause.

Actually, the devs did rule that changing the attribute does change the type of test. (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9tga) Scion of War does switch initiative from Dex to Charisma completely, so it is no longer a Dexterity check under the rules and ACP won't apply to it anymore.

The alternative example is if you simply add a second ability score to a check - this won't change the type of check. For example, Intimidating Prowess lets you add Strength to Intimidate, but you still add Charisma too, ergo Intimidate is still a Charisma-based check and will be modified by things that modify Charisma-based skill checks (like Elongated Cranium.)

[Florian]

Considering the special limitations of how psychic magic works, I actually find it to be worthwhile to dip a level Fighter (Unbreakable) for the armour and shield proficiencies and get a hold on Heroic Defiance later on.

As for control, first, I would leave that to the Mesmerist, as that class is damn good about it and has the right tools for it, second, I'd rather start with Ego Whip, sofening the target up for everything else that will come. Persistance is good, but in that case only as a MM rod, imho.

(Actually, a one level Mesmerist dip is very good for Psychics, as they also gain access to the Mask Misery trick besides using the Stare, so you can prevent a total shutdown, something very humuliating for a full caster class)

[Psyren]

Honestly, Psychics get Mage Armor so I wouldn't get bent out of shape spending feats and dips and such just to be able to walk around in plate. You should be fine at low levels until you can buy Mithral Kikko or a Mithral Chain Shirt, which have no ACP and therefore no problems for your initiative even if you aren't proficient. You can even sleep in them since they are light.

[Slithery D]

second, I'd rather start with Ego Whip, sofening the target up for everything else that will come. Persistance is good, but in that case only as a MM rod, imho.

(Actually, a one level Mesmerist dip is very good for Psychics, as they also gain access to the Mask Misery trick besides using the Stare, so you can prevent a total shutdown, something very humuliating for a full caster class)

1. Ego Whip is kind of bad/mediocre until high levels (will save penalty is half the listed number), and there are other spells that put a -2 penalty (shaken/sickened) on future saves for 1 round even if they make the initial save. Once you do have access to high level Ego Whip you also have access to Greater Shadow Enchantment to emulate it or Quickened Ill Omen to give you a lingering-somewhat-like-Persistent Spell effect at the cost of a 5th level spell and a swift action. In a lot of situations (non-caster, enemy needs move action, enemy doesn't have lots of attacks to burn off effect) even a regular 1st level Ill Omen can have a stronger effect than a high level Ego Whip. Avoid that trap option, get on Ill Omen tech. For best results, combine Quickened Ill Omen with Persistent Spell.

2. Persistent is really good with Spell Perfection. You should definitely consider it as your third and last metamagic feat at high level.

3. Emotion effects aren't a "total shutdown." There are quite a few good V component only spells, like Suggestion and Blindness/Deafness, that will enable you to take useful actions even when you're subject to a fear effect.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Also, a potion of remove fear takes care of shaken. If you have a more advanced state of fear, you wouldn't be casting spells anyway.

[Triskavanski]

Why isn't Assimar in the guide for other races.

Peri-Blooded (Emberkin) seems perfect for a Cha based Psychic, as you get +2 int and +2 cha

[Florian]

Why isn't Assimar in the guide for other races.

Peri-Blooded (Emberkin) seems perfect for a Cha based Psychic, as you get +2 int and +2 cha

Propably because there is an Aasimar/Tiefling for any stat combination imaginable?
On a more serious note, right now with no FCB outside the core races, a race has to bring significant benefits to the table to be of any interest beyond a good stat soread, like Samsaran and Mystic Past Life.

[Triskavanski]

Well the Int/Cha is the only combo there is for Asimar, nothing for Int/Wis.

As far as useful things go

Racial Traits: Crusading Magic to break through SR. True Speaker for all your Language Dependent needs. Scion of Humanity to count as a human and thus get the FCB of Human (Or Pick up racial heritage if you really wanted to be down a whole feat, to be able to have a third racial state)

Beyond that, there is a little. +1 to illusions(Pattern) with a few feats, and some other stuff that yeah, aren't really too worth it. So yeah, other than a really good stat block, nothing too amazing I guess.

[Slithery D]

Hey, I wanted to recommend you ad Cunning Caster and Ambuscading Spell to the feats section. Cunning Caster has good synergy with Psychics since they don't suffer the V/S/(usually)M penalties, and Ambuscading Spell is a great new and not yet well known addition whether you're casting unseen socially (Cunning Caster), from ambush, or long range spells (Demand, Nightmare, Dream Scan, Scrying, etc.).

Ambuscading Spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/ambuscading-spell):
Your spells are particularly effective against those caught unawares.

Benefit(s): During a surprise round, your opponents that have not yet acted take a –2 penalty on saving throws against spells you cast. Creatures that have already acted take a –1 penalty during the surprise round.

[Triskavanski]

Oh that is a lovely feat combo there. My flamekin Rapport psychic would love that.

[Slithery D]

Do we think a Belt of Equilibrium (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/belt-of-equilibrium) gives you a round to cast Remove Fear if you're shaken?

Belt of Equilibrium
Aura faint conjuration; CL 3rd
Slot belt; Price 12,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.

DESCRIPTION

As long as this belt’s wearer doesn’t move more than 5 feet during her turn, she ignores the penalties for being fatigued, shaken, or sickened until the end of her next turn or until she moves more than 5 feet, whichever occurs first. While she does not take any of the penalties of those conditions, she is considered to be under the effect of those conditions until they end or are removed.

CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

Craft Wondrous Item, lesser restoration, remove fear; Cost 6,000 gp.

Not sure what the practical import of the bolded is. This is pre-occult, so they couldn't have intentionally intended for you to be unable to use emotion components even though you don't suffer the -2 penalty, so what were they talking about?

Anyway, if your GM gives you a favorable ruling this is not a bad item for psychic casters who fear fear and want better action economy than drinking a potion at the cost of a spell known and a spell slot expended. Or just use it to cast a hopefully encounter ending spell before you're limited to V component spells.

[Florian]

Hm. Two thoughts on the item:
- It only let´s you ignore the penalty, you´re still affected.
- Any effect that deepens a condition a level (like shaken to frightened) will work

[Slithery D]

Looking through this again, I noticed you fell prey to the common misinterpretation of the Deja Vu spell:
deja vu - Holy hell! No emotion component, and no saving throw. This is much better than lesser confusion, and can really throw a wrench in the gears. Wait for the enemy to do something dumb, then slam them with this gem of a spell.

This actually doesn't let you force the enemy to repeat something you witnessed. It works like this:

1. You cast it. The two round duration begins.
2. The next round (or enemy action) the spell passively records what the target does.
3. The next round the spell forces the target to repeat the previous action.
4. The spell ends.

So you only get one round of compelled activity, and it's based on their action after you cast the spell. Nothing at all actually happens to the target the round after you cast it.

It's at best green, maybe just black.

This one is also wrong:

ego whip II - This will probably lock an enemy caster out of their highest level spells for a bit, but there’s some stiff competition for spells known this level.

Nope, the psychic version of ego whip is much, much worse than the psionic. You only do a penalty to tests, you don't lower the value at all. They can't get locked out of anything, you can only penalize their Int/Cha tests (LOL) or lower their will save. Even the latter affect isn't that great for the spell level you're using.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Good catch on Deja Vu. I'm not so sure about your reading of Ego Whip, though. Doesn't it function similarly to Touch of Gracelessness or Ray of Enfeeblement? Is there a description or ruling somewhere that describes exactly what an ability penalty does as opposed to ability damage? I always interpreted it as temporary ability damage.

I need to update this guide now that the psytech stuff is on the SRD.

[Florian]

Good catch on Deja Vu. I'm not so sure about your reading of Ego Whip, though. Doesn't it function similarly to Touch of Gracelessness or Ray of Enfeeblement? Is there a description or ruling somewhere that describes exactly what an ability penalty does as opposed to ability damage? I always interpreted it as temporary ability damage.

I need to update this guide now that the psytech stuff is on the SRD.

If you read the passage on Ability Damage and Drain, nothing there actually states that effects beyond the listed will happen. You do not recalculate the Ability that has been damage, so you don´t lose access to stuff like feats whose prereqs you don´t meet anymore or access to spell levels.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

The Psytech stuff is okay, depending on the campaign. Force Field may be useful if you can use it without it depleting, Laser Blast has lasers, which can interact in an interesting fashion with some spell effects, and Psychic Battery is amazing- if you have technology that isn't timeworn. The Mindtech discipline is likewise good if tech items will show up, but their recovery method isn't great until 7th level when you have Psychic Battery (Wis mod worth of free points per day for spending charges). The bonus spells are likewise tech-oriented, with the exceptions of Irradiate, Lightning Arc, and Time Stop.

[Florian]

The Psytech stuff is okay, depending on the campaign. Force Field may be useful if you can use it without it depleting, Laser Blast has lasers, which can interact in an interesting fashion with some spell effects, and Psychic Battery is amazing- if you have technology that isn't timeworn. The Mindtech discipline is likewise good if tech items will show up, but their recovery method isn't great until 7th level when you have Psychic Battery (Wis mod worth of free points per day for spending charges). The bonus spells are likewise tech-oriented, with the exceptions of Irradiate, Lightning Arc, and Time Stop.

Small correction on he recovery method: It also works with regular Batteries on non-timeworn items, both of which you find on most regular NPC during Iron Gods. So that works from the get-go.

[Triskavanski]

One new cool spell is Linked Legacy. Its a first level spell that shares information checks.

its close range.. But if you could increase the distance it covers, its absolutely wonderful for situations where you split the party. Like for example if you're in an inn you could have like the party rogue go down stairs and roll knowledge checks every time he goes to identify different people.

OR in situations where you need silence and forwhatever reason you can't just use telepathy. (Perhaps you don't know it yet.) and you ID something, you can pass that info on as a free action, silently.

[Slithery D]

Good catch on Deja Vu. I'm not so sure about your reading of Ego Whip, though. Doesn't it function similarly to Touch of Gracelessness or Ray of Enfeeblement? Is there a description or ruling somewhere that describes exactly what an ability penalty does as opposed to ability damage? I always interpreted it as temporary ability damage.

Yeah, it's not temporary ability damage in pathfinder. Just a negative to skills or other things that feed off abilities. Maybe your DCs go lower for Int penalties, like damage/to hit does for Strength, but you don't lose spell casting ability nor Power Attack if you're hit with one of these.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Yeah, it's not temporary ability damage in pathfinder. Just a negative to skills or other things that feed off abilities. Maybe your DCs go lower for Int penalties, like damage/to hit does for Strength, but you don't lose spell casting ability nor Power Attack if you're hit with one of these.

Rereading the section on ability damage, it appears you're correct: it would drop save DCs for spells, but not lock you out of casting spell levels entirely. I'll update it.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Also, the shadow enchantment spell and its Greater form might stand out in Occult Realms. However, I don't know how effective they are, its really weird.

[Slithery D]

Second adding a detailed analysis of the Shadow Enchantment spells. GSE makes the best possible Spell Perfection candidate in my mind and it greatly improves illusion over enchantment as a choice for spell focus.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Second adding a detailed analysis of the Shadow Enchantment spells. GSE makes the best possible Spell Perfection candidate in my mind and it greatly improves illusion over enchantment as a choice for spell focus.

I think they're better for wizards or other non-spontaneous casters. Sure, it's a lot of flexibility, which is nothing to sneeze at, but if you're looking to make spells like confusion or feeblemind your bread and butter, why insert another save into the mix? Never mind the good chance enemy casters would identify your trickery via Spellcraft.

Now, a wizard that has enchantment as an opposition school gets even more mileage out of those spells. But a spontaneous caster already has a great deal of freedom within the confines of the spells they already know, which typically includes most of the better enchantment spells for a psychic. A human psychic in particular isn't hurting too terribly hard for spells known.

I don't see using a 6th level slot to cast a 4th or 5th level spell you should already know as a great bargain, and there aren't a whole lot of 5th level or lower enchantment spells that come to mind that would make me do backflips for GSE, especially as a psychic or sorcerer.

At any rate, they haven't added the OR and OO spells to the psychic class list page yet, so I'd have to go hunting for all the new spells. I'll get around to it eventually...

[Florian]

While I think you´re overlooking some of the finer details on SE/GSE and undervalue it, I still agree that it´s not that good for the psychic. Gnome Mesmerist? Go for it...

[Slithery D]

GSE really comes into its own when you get Spell Perfection combined with Greater Spell Focus and Persistent Spell and you can toss off a Hold Monster, Charm Monster, Dominate Person, Confusion, or Mass Suggestion at DC 10+ with two saves required by the target. 60% of the time their second save opportunity from disbelief won't matter anyway. The recent occult splat books also introduced a lot of niche memory modification spells (e.g. Out of Sight) that I want but can't justify a spell known for.

But this build is admitted better for social/spy campaigns than normal adventuring.

As for regular Shadow Enchantment, not only does it give you Charm Person, Suggestion, Hold Person, and Hideous Laughter, it also give you the off list Keep Watch so you never have to sleep again if you have a 3rd level slot to burn. But yeah, this one is harder to justify because you're never going to boost the DCs or Persistent it too often to overcome the second save opportunity.

[CockroachTeaParty]

That's true, I never really thought about the implications of the 'Shadow X' spells with Spell Perfection. It's a cool trick, but one that 90% of games are unlikely to see, since it's level 15+ we're talking about.

[Slithery D]

Blood Shadows dropped today with a new Shadow discipline.

Wisdom based, lots of darkness/shadow spells (including Shadow Evocation) on the spell list. Most of the spells provide partial concealment to work with your discipline ability, which isn't that strong, and there are the usual duds, Shadow Evocation is the only standout unless you want to play with light levels a lot.

First discipline abilities give spontaneous access to the Cleric Darkness domain(!), works like Faith discipline healing, one use per level per day, and you get a phrenic point back when you cast a spell with this. Basically it's 9 free limited use spells known from a very good list that fills in some important gaps. You get Shadow Conjuration and at higher levels Shadow Evocation (Greater) and Shades.

Second discipline ability gives you a +2/+4 deflection AC bonus when partially/fully concealed, which your spells will help with.

Final discipline ability gives a bonus to Stealth and HiPS when near a shadow.

Seems decent, definitely the best candidate if you're planning to go heavily into illusion and pick it for your Spell Focus. You get access to all the Shadow spells, including Shadow Enchantment natively, so you have a much broader spell access than any other psychic. Shadow Evocation becomes a very plausible Spell Perfection candidate for a unique high level psychic build.

[Florian]

Blood Shadows dropped today with a new Shadow discipline.

Hm? What source is that in?

[Psyren]

Hm? What source is that in?

"Blood Shadows" is the source :smalltongue:

[Florian]

"Blood Shadows" is the source :smalltongue:

Paizo stuff is imported material for me and there´s always a rather long delay until it shows up at my LFGS. So I´ve given up on following the release schedule and wait till my "local dealer" tells me that stuff is incoming. Haven´t heard about that certain book, so I was a bit surprised.

[Slithery D]

The product title is actually Blood of Shadows, sorry. This months player companion release.

[Florian]

The product title is actually Blood of Shadows, sorry. This months player companion release.

Thank you. That clears that up. It´ll take a while till I get my greedy hands on that one...

[CockroachTeaParty]

Shadow, eh? Sounds cool. Not sure what shadows have to do with psychic power necessarily, but there seems to be an occult affinity with the ethereal and astral planes, so the plane of shadow is probably 'psychically resonant' or what-have-you.

[Psyren]

Paizo stuff is imported material for me and there´s always a rather long delay until it shows up at my LFGS. So I´ve given up on following the release schedule and wait till my "local dealer" tells me that stuff is incoming. Haven´t heard about that certain book, so I was a bit surprised.

I was gently teasing you - when he said "Blood Shadows dropped today" you were meant to parse that as "The Paizo supplemental book titled 'Blood Shadows' was released today."

[Florian]

I was gently teasing you - when he said "Blood Shadows dropped today" you were meant to parse that as "The Paizo supplemental book titled 'Blood Shadows' was released today."

You know, that kind of teasing doesn´t work when you have to constantly translate what is said and then look at your localized version and how they actually translate it then.
Me, I´m an odd duck because I buy the english stuff (Because of personal opinions about the localized stuff), but that doesn´t mean I get all the subtle things being said right.

[Psyren]

You know, that kind of teasing doesn´t work when you have to constantly translate what is said and then look at your localized version and how they actually translate it then.
Me, I´m an odd duck because I buy the english stuff (Because of personal opinions about the localized stuff), but that doesn´t mean I get all the subtle things being said right.

It's a testament to how articulately you post that I didn't realize you weren't a native speaker until now. My bad!

[Slithery D]

Blood of Shadows also has a decent number of spells that get added to the Psychic list. Much better than the Arcane Anthology options last release. Most are Illusion or Evocation.

Darkvault: Keeps an area dark, negating nonmagical light and forcing magical light to beat a caster check or have no effect. Think Dimensional Lock for light sources.

Fear the Sun: Give multiple targets light blindness.

Shadowmind: Use illusion to reduce light conditions by one step for multiple targets. Darkvision and See in Darkness won't help because it's an illusion. Basically works as a mass blindness spell on anyone without True Sight if the light conditions are already dim light or darkness. "Mind" in the spell is a misnomer, it's a phantasm without the mind-affecting tag.

Umbral Strike: A bolt of half cold, half negative energy damage that also blinds for level/round on a failed save.

Dancing Darkness: Mobile darkness effect, one step.

Motes of Dusk and Dawn: Mobile light or darkness effect, two steps. Level 3, but only 1 minute duration.

Mydriatic Spontaneity (Mass): Your irises randomly dilate and contract. You're nauseated for 1 rd/level, and depending on your 50% roll and the local light conditions you're blind or dazzled that round. For a Psychic this is level 3/6, so not bad just for inflicting the nauseate condition. Evocation, so suck it, immunities.

Shadow Trap: Target is entangled and can't move more than 5' away.

Shadowform: Hoo, boy. I'll show this insanely great defensive spell as a bonus.


SHADOWFORM
School illusion (shadow) [shadowUM]; Level antipaladin 4, bard 4,mesmerist 4, psychic 4, sorcerer/wizard 4, spiritualist 4, witch 4
Casting Time 1 standard action Components V, S
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw Will negates (see text); Spell Resistance yes
You replace the target’s body with mystic shadow material drawn from the Shadow Plane, rendering the target’s physical form only quasi-real. Whenever a foe tries to directly attack the target of the spell (for instance, with a weapon or a targeted spell), that foe must attempt a Will save to disbelieve. If successful, the opponent can attack the target normally and is unaffected by shadowform for 1 round. If the foe fails, the target takes only one-fifth the normal amount of damage from the foe’s successful attack or effect, and if the attack has a special effect other than damage, that effect is one-fifth as strong as normal (if applicable) or only 20% as likely to occur. Objects automatically succeed at their Will saves against this spell.

Crank that DC with spell focus or slap a Persist on it and this is a great defensive spell. A persisted version can be put in a Contingency, GMs start updating your BBEGs.

Should be ineffective against ranged attacks, though, since an arrow is an object not sharing the attacker's save once it leaves their hand.

[Excel]

Thanks for the awesome and extensive guide!

In terms of builds, would you recommend going for a generalist approach or planning for a more specialized build such as summoning/conjuration or even shadow spells? (playing a shadow-based caster sounds like it has some pretty fun flavor, for example)

[Slithery D]

Thanks for the awesome and extensive guide!

In terms of builds, would you recommend going for a generalist approach or planning for a more specialized build such as summoning/conjuration or even shadow spells? (playing a shadow-based caster sounds like it has some pretty fun flavor, for example)

Whether to play generalist/specialized depends on your campaign (what challenges will you face), your party (what capabilities do you need to fill or can safely ignore), and what you like to play.

The Psychic is already pretty specialized compared to other full casters. My recommendation is to pick some sort of specialization to lean on a bit heavily, but have some variety. So maybe go Spell Focus (Enchantment or Illusion) and have very effective mind affecting as your preferred mode, but don't neglect a few utility or direct damage spells. Or go necromancy with a mix of crowd control, debuffing, and damage. But you'll need some mind-affecting and Will of the Dead to handle undead, because you don't get the right spells from necromancy to deal with them them directly.

Speaking of necromancy, I've always erroneously believed that Horrid Wilting was on the Psychic list because it's on the Pain discipline bonus spells and I thought Faith was the only discipline that got off list spells in OA. Oops.

[Slithery D]

Spell advice comment: I'd argue that Id Insinuation III and IV are better than red and not always inferior to Confusion in every circumstance. Key points:

1. Friendly fire: You can pick targets who are in combat with your party, rather than hit everyone indiscriminately.
2. Less random effects: You can pick or heavily influence the results of their confusion roll. (You pick your choice of two random results, or for the first round of IV, pick the result.) This means you can, with proper positioning, instigate duels to the death among enemies (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tjvy?Confused-condition-Id-Insinuation-and#1) with high probability, or at last prevent them from acting normally and trying to dispel, heal, or otherwise mitigate the effect. You're only really not benefiting if their two rolls are act normally or attack nearest and a party member is the nearest. That's going to be rare.

Concentration is still a big hit, but with proper party support and tactical positioning this spell still has a place. I'd put it as black, not red.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Spell advice comment: I'd argue that Id Insinuation III and IV are better than red and not always inferior to Confusion in every circumstance. Key points:

1. Friendly fire: You can pick targets who are in combat with your party, rather than hit everyone indiscriminately.
2. Less random effects: You can pick or heavily influence the results of their confusion roll. (You pick your choice of two random results, or for the first round of IV, pick the result.) This means you can, with proper positioning, instigate duels to the death among enemies (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tjvy?Confused-condition-Id-Insinuation-and#1) with high probability, or at last prevent them from acting normally and trying to dispel, heal, or otherwise mitigate the effect. You're only really not benefiting if their two rolls are act normally or attack nearest and a party member is the nearest. That's going to be rare.

Concentration is still a big hit, but with proper party support and tactical positioning this spell still has a place. I'd put it as black, not red.

I don't know... keep in mind Confusion is medium range, while the Id Insinuation line is close. The chances of an ally (or yourself) being the nearest target in scenario 2 isn't as rare as you might think. A 15 ft. burst allows a pretty reasonable amount of accuracy; I'm yet to see a friendly caught in a Confusion spell's radius.

I suppose I'd have to see Id Insinuation in use, but I've seen Confusion end encounters, and bring parties of PCs to near-TPK. Control over the outcome isn't what's scary about the confused condition, it's the loss of control in general. Aside from nauseated, it's one of the worst status effects in the game, and the Confusion spell delivers it over greater distance, affecting more targets, over a longer duration without requiring concentration in the meantime.

If you're looking for control in a 4th or 5th level enchantment, why not spring for Charm Monster or Dominate Person (or Possession)? Yes, you can use it to lock a few targets down, but there are dozens of other spells on the Psychic list that do that exact same thing, many of them lower level.

Maybe those spells are purple, as in circumstantially useful, but there are few instances where Confusion isn't just a more devastating choice.

[Slithery D]

You make a compelling case. I was reviewing the Psychic only attack/defense spells again and feeling the "why are so man of them so useless" pain and maybe reaching a bit too much for a reason to like Id Insinuation once I noticed the ability to influence the condition.

I'm still trying to understand where Psychic Crush fits. It would make a lot more sense in a game that didn't have Phantasmal Killer.

[Slithery D]

I checked out the Psychic spells in Horror Adventures. The overall theme is "surprisingly weak, but definitely horror themed." Here's a few that were noteworthy for use by or against Psychics.

1. Absurdity is a 2nd level spell, 1/min, that protects you from the lesser three new fear statuses. This includes a 50% chance to ignore the traditional Shaken, including from Intimidate. Has some Sense Motive and Initiative downsides, though.

2. Horrific Doubles is a 4th level spell that is basically Mirror Image, but with extra fear effects for anyone who sees the images, and who successfully attacks them. Good if you regularly fight other psychic casters.

3. Phantasmal Putrefaction is a 6th level spell that isn't a sleep effect, but causes targets to faint and become asleep (as the status) even if they can't normally be affected by magical sleep effects. It's still mind affecting and requires failing both a Will and Fort, so I don't really see that this has much point to it, but if you're a Dream discipline Psychic who really wants to mess with elves, knock yourself (and them) out, I guess.

4. Phobia is a 6th level spell that implants an instantaneous (i.e. permanent but not dispellable) specific phobia and seems custom designed to facilitate imprisoning psychic spellcasters by taking away their emotion components. You pick a phobia (e.g. darkness, enclosed spaces, water) and if the target is exposed to it has to make a Will 20 save or be panicked for 1 minute. But even if it makes the save, it is Shaken until the trigger can no longer be perceived. Toss a target into a tiny broomcloset or shallowly flooded cell with the right phobia and they'll never be able to cast emotion components as long as they're in there.

There are plenty of others, but none of them are great spells or particularly relevant to the Psychic in particular.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Three new fear statuses?!? What the heck are they cooking up over there?

[Slithery D]

Three new fear statuses?!? What the heck are they cooking up over there?
A short synopsis of the expanded fear system:

Lesser Fear:
1. Spooked (-2 on fear saves and Perception effects, +1 on initiative)
2. Shaken (no change)
3. Scared (as shaken, but -4 on fear saves. Any further lesser fear effects make you staggered 1 round unless you choose to be Frightened, e.g. so you can run away at full speed.)

You can't go from Lesser Fear to Greater Fear by accumulating lesser fear effects, unless you choose to be Frightened for a round so as to avoid being Staggered.

Greater Fear
4. Frightened (no change)
5. Panicked (mostly no change)
6. Terrified (treat no one as allies while you flee, roll from a random action table once you've escaped the source of your fear (continue to flee/hide/attack nearest/freeze and do nothing)
7. Horrified (you can't act, -2 to AC, you're flatfooted even if normally immune, helpless)

Greater Fear effects CAN be increased by Lesser Fear effects once you've been tagged with one. So you can chase a Frightened character and tack on three Intimidates to move him to Horrified and deliver a coup de grace.

Some of the new spells provide for the new fear levels, and the idea is that you can get some, like Spooked, just from being in a creepy environment.

There's also a suggestion for watering down fear immunities if you use this system in a horror campaign. Fear immunity would then only make you be treated as a level 2 below your actual level of fear (So if you'er Panicked treat yourself as Scared), and you're never affected by things that would leave you Spooked or Shaken.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Intimidate can't increase fear beyond shaken normally. Did they make it so it can 'stack' with other fear effects?

Those are some interesting little tweaks to the fear system. My roommate got the PDF, and it looks like there's a bunch of options for occult characters, so I may need to dust off the guides and give'em the old college update.

Interestingly, I've been sitting on a half-finished guide to the vigilante, but that class is so strange and complex that I lost steam on it. I'ma have to step up my guide game once the bug bites me again.

[Slithery D]

All Shaken effects are the same now, including Intimidate. It's a (capped) buff to Intimidate, a nerf to other sources of Shaken that now can't stack to Frightened.

[lordmonty]

Just a minor thing but noticed the lack of Aasimar in the race section. With the ability to use human favored class bonus(with scion of humanity) it should be considered and as the peri blooded stat mods are perfect for charisma discipline builds.

With the human favored bonus I think a peri blooded Aasimar might just edge out Samsuran, for charisma builds at least.

Thanks for the guide by the way. Feels like no one loves the Occult classes sometimes.

P.s. Oh an afterthought edit here for I think Tieflings can also gain the human favored class bonus through a racial trait swap(pass as human). Might just be worth a mention.

[Slithery D]

Here's a list (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tun8?You-have-nothing-to-fear-even-fear-itself) of spells you can cast even when under an emotion effect that someone compiled over at the Paizo forums.

[Slithery D]

Haunted Heroes Handbook is out and has a new Haunted discipline for Psychics. It's Charisma based and here's the bonus spells:
Bonus Spells: Detect undead (1st), calm spiritOA (4th), halt undead (6th), speak with hauntACG (8th), disrupting weapon (10th), undeath to death (12th), ethereal jaunt (14th), greater possession (16th), etherealness (18th)

The first discipline ability is awful (swift action use of some ghost themed cantrips), the second is highly limited (Cha bonus to saves against haunts and undead/outsider incorporeals; why not an AC bonus as well against incorporeals???), the third is good but too late at 13th and you've already been using Will of the Dead anyway (all mind-affecting spells that deal damage hurt all undead and haunts as if they dealt positive energy damage, doing this against a possessed entity only hurts the possessing spirit and they take a big penalty to their save).

It's obviously great if you're in a horror themed campaign with haunts around every corner, it's pretty good if you're in an undead campaign once13th level and have your best discipline ability and your high level undead killing bonus spells on line. Very little to offer otherwise, strictly inferior to almost every other discipline in an ordinary campaign.

Right after it in the book is the Possessed Sorcerer bloodline, which is amazing and so much better designed. It even has a couple of Psychic only bonus spells and a bonkers capstone where you're not just immune to mind-affecting, but if you possess something you remain in control of both bodies simultaneously. It's enough to forgive putting the awful Bilocation as the 8th level bonus spell. Wish this author had worked on the Psychic discipline.

[CockroachTeaParty]

What's the fluff on the haunted discipline? Most of the disciplines represent your 'source' or 'inspiration' for psychic spells. Your pursuit of mental discipline gives you powers, or hallucinogens unlock your hidden talent, or your faith in a deity inspires you, etc. etc.

So what does the haunted discipline mean in this context? Are you yourself haunted, and this somehow provides you with psychic power? Or do you study spooks and ghosts and this gives you the occult insight you need to become a psychic?

That bonus spell list seems pretty bad if nothing else. The fact that any psychic can just pick up Will of the Dead makes it nearly moot. That said, it doesn't look as bad as the Mindtech discipline. *shudder*

[Slithery D]

Mindtech is unique in that it is the only discipline that provides both a DC booster and a phrenic pool recovery method, so there's that? I still cringe at how bad a spell Destroy Robot is, and that makes me hate the spell list with a holy passion. Give it Disintegrate or Greater Discharge at that level, FFS. I can't believe you made it orange, it's like 20% as capable as Disintegrate at the same level.

Haunted fluff:
You attract the attention of spirits as naturally as a lodestone attracts iron filings. Testing your power leads you to develop some control over undead forces, despite the inherent defenses such creatures have against psychic abilities. Meanwhile, those spirits clinging to your life essence become increasingly protective, channeling their abilities to aid you and warn of threats. Psychics of this discipline are most common in Ustalav and Shenmen, where so many spirits are stuck in the transition between life and death.

On the Haunted spell list, note that not only does it redundantly get both Ethereal Jaunt and Etherealness, it gets both a level late - these are early access spells for the Psychic ordinarily available at levels 6/8. I'm guessing the author didn't know that.

Edit: Actually, three other disciplines also get Ethereal Jaunt as a bonus spell at 7th despite the fact a Psychic can take it at 6th level. Huh.

[Slithery D]

With any luck Blood Shadows will go up on Archives of Nethys within the next month, although he's already blown his updated schedule. There's lots of good stuff in there, including some light/darkness spell options and the Shadow discipline.

[Slithery D]

Reviewing the guide, I think you should explicitly call out Placebo Effect in the section on dealing with Emotion components. It's V(Thought) only, only 2nd level, and also deals with (nearly?) every other status effect, not just fear. It's strictly superior to Remove Fear plus Logical Spell.

Although you gave it a red rating in the spells section (I disagree), Intellect Fortress should also be called out in this section. Immediate action to suppress fear effects when you absolutely need to cast an Emotion component spell that round and can't wait.

[Slithery D]

Haunted discipline (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/PsychicDisciplinesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Haunted) from Haunted Heroes Handbook is up at Archives of Nethys. It's still garbage.

Legacy of Dragons has two spells worth noting, Hermean Potential (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Hermean%20Potential) is a buffing version of Ill Omen, and Form of the Alien Dragon (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Form%20of%20the%20Alien %20Dragon%20I) lets you take up an Esoteric dragon form, but late access compared to Wiz/Sorc.

Still nothing from Blood of Shadows, unfortunately. I really wish everyone could see the Shadow discipline.

[Triskavanski]

Yeah, its too bad the two sites have such weird uploading times on things.

[Slithery D]

Here's the Shadow Discipline since neither site is likely to revisit it now that it's been skipped. Next week Blood of the Beast is out, which apparently has a cool Warp discipline (interdimensional travel and deflection type defenses, based on planar portal closures in Vudra) in the Ratfolk section. More when I get it.

Shadow (Psychic Discipline)
You perceive the space between light and darkness, and draw power from it. Shadows conceal and protect you, while revealing the locations of those who dare to hide within them. Over time, you develop the ability to deny the warmth of light or life to your enemies.
Phrenic Pool Ability: Wisdom.

Bonus Spells: blurred movementACG (2nd), fear the sun (4th), deeper darkness (6th), shadow stepUM (8th), shadow evocation (10th), shadow walk (12th), lunar veilUM (14th), umbral strike (16th), polar midnightUM (18th).

Discipline Powers: Your powers give you authority over light and shadow.

Twilight Influence (Su): You can channel spell energy into spells drawn from the Darkness cleric domain. This ability functions similarly to the cleric’s ability to spontaneously cast cure or inflict spells, but you instead spontaneously cast Darkness domain spells. The domain spells don’t count as being on your psychic spell list for the purposes of any other effects (unless they are independently on your psychic spell list, such as blindness/deafness). Each day, you can convert up to one spell from each spell level you can cast. Each time you use this ability to convert a spell, you regain
1 point in your phrenic pool. The maximum number of points you can regain in this way per day is equal to your Wisdom modifier.

Dark Defense (Su): At 5th level, light and darkness become your allies, moving around you to protect you from your enemies. You gain a +2 deflection bonus to Armor Class against any attack while you benefit from concealment against that attack. If you have full concealment from that attack, this deflection bonus increases to +4.

Adumbration (Su): At 13th level, shadows move to conceal you. You gain a bonus on Stealth checks equal to half your level. In addition, you can use the Stealth skill even while being observed and without cover or concealment, as long as you are within 10 feet of a shadow other than your own. You gain no benefit from adumbration in areas of bright light.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Thanks Slithery D. I'll look over the Darkness domain to see if there's anything worthwhile there, but first blush this discipline strikes me as black rated in my guide.

[Slithery D]

Thanks Slithery D. I'll look over the Darkness domain to see if there's anything worthwhile there, but first blush this discipline strikes me as black rated in my guide.

There are some great Darkness spells at high level, some plausible options at low level, and some weak ones in the middle. Fear the Sun and Umbral Strike discipline spells are both online. Umbral Strike is late access and wouldn't have been good at 7th (who needs a cold/negative energy single target damage even with a blindness rider? Just use an existing option with metamagic).

[Slithery D]

Ok, Warp Discipline from Blood of the Beast.


Warp (Psychic)
Ratfolk mythology claims they were appointed by the gods to sniff out the ragged edges of creation. Whether the art of ranatagi descended from this glorious role or formed the source of such myths, this psychic tradition among the ratfolk of Vudra and eastern Casmaron unlocks the psychic potential in trainees, teaching them to sniff out folds and tears in reality. Ancient practitioners of ranatagi even claimed that the art once allowed ratfolk to guide great caravans to the stars.
Phrenic Pool Ability: Charisma.

Despite this background, I don't think it's meant to be explicitly limited to ratfolk. Most of the book's options are open to everyone, and the one's that aren't are usually very clear about it. GM call, obviously. That said, Ratfolk are a good Psychic race, and this book also added a favored class bonus of +1/6 phrenic amplifications.

One note about Charisma as your pool ability: much like Abomination, it doesn't really do anything very important for your discipline abilities, so you can safely dump it if you don't want an extra point or two of phrenic pool and would rather invest in physical stats.


Bonus Spells: Entropic shield (1st), apport objectOA (4th), displacement (6th), dimension door (8th), dismissal (10th), ethereal jaunt (12th), greater teleport (14th), dimensional lock (16th), interplanetary teleportUM (18th).

Not terrible. I think this is the fifth (at least the fourth) discipline to give ethereal jaunt or etherealness as a bonus spell, but it's the first one to give it at regular level and not late entry. Finally.


Discipline Powers: Your powers allow you to sidestep obstacles, defend yourself, and assault others by tearing holes in reality.
Planar Scent (Su): You can intuitively sense disruptions in the cosmos. This ability functions as a constant detect magic, but only for effects of the conjuration (calling), conjuration (summoning), conjuration (teleport), and illusion (shadow) subschools. You gain a +2 insight bonus on Spellcraft checks to identify such effects.

Well, ok. I guess it's marginally useful tactical knowledge against some spell casting enemies. Probably won't come up much, though.


Rift Reach (Su): As a move action, you can tear open a small rent in reality just large enough to reach an arm through. The far end of this portal must be within 10 feet of you, but otherwise allows you to manipulate objects, perform melee attacks requiring a single hand, or even cast spells. If you cannot see your target, standard concealment penalties apply. You cannot move either end of the portal once it’s created, and the opening collapses immediately when you leave your current space or withdraw your arm, but it otherwise lasts for 1 round per psychic level. Your disembodied hand uses your AC with a +4 size bonus, should opponents target it. This size bonus does not apply to disarm combat maneuver checks.
You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier. At 11th level, the range of your rift reach increases to 20 feet. At 15th level, your range increases to 30 feet.

You can almost do a touch build off of this, except the range is too short and you burn your move action to activate it. The duration is odd and not of much use. Are you going to stand in the same spot and make melee attacks from a square 10/20' away? Maybe to provide a flank to an ally, I don't know. Situationally useful in combat, neither broken nor useless. It's the only think other than your phrenic pool that depends on Charisma, so it's not a big deal if you don't put much in Charisma.


Sidestep (Su): You can push your way through holes in reality, crossing vast distances in a single stride. At 13th level, you can teleport up to 10 feet per psychic level per day as a move action. This teleportation must be used in 5-foot increments and such movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. You must have line of sight to your destination to use this ability. You can bring other willing creatures with you, but you must expend an equal amount of distance for each creature transported.

Just as good as it for other classes. Nice escape ability.


Turn Aside (Su): You can compress or inflate enough space around you to turn aside ranged attacks. At 5th level, you gain Deflect Arrows as a bonus feat. You can expend 1 point from your phrenic pool as an immediate action to gain a +4 deflection bonus against a single ranged attack.

Pretty good! The Deflect Arrows seems like enough, you're not going to burn an immediate action and a phrenic point for a marginal AC bonus against a second ranged attack very often, especially once you've got a decent Ring of Protection.

Overall I like this one. No useless spells, no useless abilities, some good combat (especially defense) and utility here. No DC booster or phrenic pool recovery, though. I'd guess you're going green or maybe black on this one.

[Slithery D]

I just realized that the Subordinate Spell major phrenic amplification lets you cast three spells in a round, as long as one of them only affects the psychic. One standard action (linked spell), one swift action (quickened spell), one no action (subordinate spell).

Subordinate Spell (Ex): The psychic can divide her mind to cast a less powerful spell upon herself alongside her linked spell. The linked spell can't be lower than 5th level and can't take less than a standard action to cast. This applies to the actual casting time, so the psychic can't add a subordinate spell to a quickened spell. The subordinate spell's casting time must be 1 standard action or less, and its level can be no higher than the linked spell's level – 5. The subordinate spell must target only the psychic (even if it could normally affect other or multiple targets). The psychic must spend a number of points from her phrenic pool equal to 3 + double the subordinate spell's level. The subordinate spell acts as though it had been cast, and uses up one of the psychic's spells per day of its level. The effects of the two spells are separate, so each might require its own concentration check.

The underlined text prevents you from casting four spells, not three. You can have a standard spell and a subordinate spell and a quickened spell, you just can't add a second (0-level) subordinate spell to a 5th level quickened spell. I think everyone reads this wrong when they look at it.

Anyway, this is great for high level play nova. An 18th level Psychic could in round 1 cast Divide Mind with his standard action, use its effect to cast an offense or battlefield control swift action 5th level or below (at no increase), and cast a 4th level or below (Greater Invisibility?) spell on himself at the cost of some hefty phrenic pool point expenditure. In round 2 you've got a subordinate buff up, your Divide Mind buff up, and can cast two spells per round in rounds 2-9.

[Slithery D]

If you ever update the spells section I strongly recommend discussing Form of the Alien Dragon (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/form-of-the-alien-dragon).

In addition to being the only combat polymorph option for Psychics, Form III gives you immunity to all mind-affecting if you choose the nightmare dragon (also See in Darkness!), immunity from all psychic magic if you choose the astral dragon, and immunity from all [evil] spells if you choose occult dragon. Etheric dragon at Form I has full movement Gaseous Form any round you don't attack, alas this doesn't upgrade to incorporeal at Form III like the resistance/immunity abilities do. Dream dragon is extremely lame, you are immune to dream effects should you for some reason be targeted by them during your min/level duration, and you can see visualizations of others dreams. Blech.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Concerning that ratfolk wackadoo discipline:

It looks pretty decent! It reminds me of the psychoportation powers from 3.5 psionics, if you wanted to reverse-engineer a nomad psion for Pathfinder, for some reason.

But yeah, I'd probably peg it as black. The spell list is decent, and the teleporty-doo thing like the arcanist exploit is certainly a great tool, but the lack of phrenic recovery keeps it from rising to green on first blush.

Concerning submissive spell:

Yes, you could certainly do a crazy nova thing and get 3 spells off in a round. Didn't really think about it combo'd with divide mind. I'm still pretty happy with the green rating, though. Sure you can get out a lot of lower-level spells, especially if you're caught with your pants down, but you can also just be astral projecting at 18th level, or teleport away and buff at your leisure, etc. (or Time Stop) Saves on phrenic points if nothing else.

Concerning Form of the Alien Dragon:

They're in the guide! I rated them orange, black, black (I, II, and III respectively). The versatility inherent in them is very nice, but unless you're building for it the physical combat upgrades are pretty much a waste, and you're making yourself a bigger target. No getting around your crap BAB and HD. Sure, you could make some kind of polymorph fighting psychic build, but you'd have to wait until level 14 before they come online; it's just not going to see the light of day in most games.

[Slithery D]

I mention Form of the Alien Dragon III mostly because I think it's the only Pathfinder method to get total immunity to mind affecting. It's definitely the only method to get total immunity to all Psychic magic. More useful for Psychic enemies than Psychics, however. Beware the 15th level Wizard who knows you are coming.

Yeah, I really want to love the Warp discipline. If it were Wis instead of Cha, or had either a phrenic or DC booster it would be there. I still like it a lot. Rift Reach has more utility than I thought at first. In addition to letting you do a touch spell build a little easier (but it needs more range earlier), it will let you get line of effect through something like a Wall of Force or Resilient Sphere. There are probably some other weird uses out of it I haven't thought of yet.

[Slithery D]

Paths of Righteousness introduced two Prestige Classes that seem potentially decent for Psychics (they add lots of spells known in addition to other abilities) and might be worth phrenic pool/amplifications and your 13th level discipline ability.

Runeguard (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/n-r/runeguard) adds all of the symbol and glyph spells to your spell list and eventually gives a +2 DC to both those and any language dependent ones, good for a Mass Suggestion spell perfection build. The virtuous rune abilities have some good buffs; Love is a straight upgrade on your Telepathic Bond class ability you're delaying/foregoing.

Stargazer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/stargazer) gives a familiar, adds the Stars subdomain spells to your spell list, gives you the Stars subdomain powers, gives you a pair of witch hexes, gives you a pair of Oracle revelations, and a selection of SLAs and buffs that are pretty good. And you don't lose any caster levels! It also gets two good saves and 3/4 BAB for some reason.

[Slithery D]

Psychic Anthology introduced some new items and spells for the Psychic. There's a cheap item that lets you center as a swift instead of move action, and a ring that serves as a battery for 4 points of phrenic pool (and that you can use to fuel a no-save touch attack that inflicts nonlethal and stun for a round). The spells include the most absurdly overpowered spell ever published by Paizo (Glimpse of the Akashic is like a 1 minute long Moment of Prescience that applies to more things simultaneously) some trap options, a couple of good ones, and lots of middle of the road stuff.


Heroes of the High Court has a new Pageantry discipline themed around ritual. Charisma based, of course, with buff/debuff spells in the bonus list. They botched the 4th level spell, though, and reprinted the original OA mistake of making Overwhelming Presence a 4th level rather than 9th level spell. Editing were generally bad on this one, unfortunately, since it has promise if unscrewed.

The first discipline ability gives a +2 bonus on occult ritual skill checks (garbage) and then an ability to provide a +4 bonus on skill Aid Another checks if you hit a 20; this also gives you a phrenic pool point bad. It's very poorly written because there's no cap on attempts/success per day, and while the sentence in isolation just requires a skill Aid Another check, it's implied that they mean during occult rituals. But you can't make aid another checks during occult rituals (and this would be a terrible ability if so limited), so I don't know what they meant. Literally as written it's an infinitely spammable way to refresh your phrenic pool forever by aiding skill attempts out of combat.

The other initial discipline ability lets you spend a phrenic point to extend a standard/swift casting time to a full round in return for +2 to CL and DC. Very nice if you're hidden by invisibility or otherwise can avoid getting hit during casting. The later discipline abilities also cost a phrenic point but aren't that good. The 5th level ability lets you maintain concentration on spells that require it (telekinesis and...?) with a swift action every round, freeing you to cast others with your standard. The 13th level ability lets you take 20 on a Concentration check. Not good now that there's a cheap item from Psychic Anthology to let you center

If they fix the 4th level bonus spell, clarify that the Aid Another applies to non-occult ritual skill checks and slap a limit on its use per day this is a decent discipline. Being able to supercharge your spells from level 1 is nice.

[Slithery D]

Archives of Nethys has updated finally with most of the stuff I've prattled on about the last year.

One new option I found is that psychics now have a healing and status removal spell (http://archivesofnethys.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Purify%20Body).

[Florian]

The real gem is the "Shard of Psychic Power". Not only that it´s finally the way to add to spells known, it works cross-class.

[Slithery D]

The real gem is the "Shard of Psychic Power". Not only that it´s finally the way to add to spells known, it works cross-class.

Spell Lattices already worked for psychic casters. The only mechanical difference here is that Shards don't weight 1 lb.

[Slithery D]

A note on your Pageantry discipline comments.
Pros: You get some decent bonus spells from the cleric list, and stupid-early access to the 9th level spell overwhelming presence. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen someone at Paizo low-ball this spell; I think maybe they mistake it for something else half the time? It’s so early access, in fact, that it might be worth pointing out to your GM, as it’s a potentially encounter-ending spell. (Or, don’t tell your GM, if you’re evil.)

The original Occult Adventures print screwed this up and listed Overwhelming Presence as a standard 4th level Psychic spell. Whoever wrote or developed this duplicated that mistake and wasn't aware of the FAQ (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1h5#v5748eaic9tpu).


Psychics and overwhelming presence: Rapport psychics receive overwhelming presence as a 9th level discipline spell, but it appears as a 4th level spell on the psychic spell list. Should it be a 9th level spell for psychics?

Yes, it should be a 9th level spell. This will be reflected in the next errata.

Basically, this discipline is poorly edited and busted, with one illegal bonus spell and a forgotten cap on the phrenic pool recovery mechanism. It's also possible given the other mistakes and the way the ability is phrased that the author didn't understand you can't Aid Another on occult rituals and only intended the hilariously terrible ability to use that aid and recovery ability on rituals.

I expect PFS campaign clarifications to address these issues in the next month or so.

[Slithery D]

Lots of new stuff! Heroes of the Darklands provides the first Psychic archetype since Occult Origins. Adventurer's Guide has a Rivethun discipline. And Legacy of the First World has the Sorrow discipline. I like that one.

PSYCHIC MARAUDER (PSYCHIC ARCHETYPE)
When one encounters aberrant creatures, it can unlock psychic potential within a person, though this experience is traumatic for those who endure it. The psychic marauder’s powers come hand in handwith madness, either from exposure to alien psyches or from terrifying glimpses into the cosmos that the psychic can’t suppress. But she does not crumble under the strain of this insanity; instead, she cordons it off to use as a shield against other psychic intrusions and harnesses it to unleash it upon the world around her.
Psychic marauders in Orv have often been corrupted by the influence of aboleths or neothelids.
Alignment: A psychic marauder must be of nonlawful alignment. A psychic marauder that becomes lawful loses her aura of insanity. However, she retains all other benefits of this archetype.
Skewed Mentality (Ex): At 2nd level, a psychic marauder becomes alienated from reality as others perceive it. The psychic marauder uses her Charisma modifier on Will saves instead of her Wisdom modifier.
This ability replaces detect thoughts.
Aura of Insanity (Su): At 3rd level, a psychic marauder’s madness begins to leak out. As a standard action, the psychic marauder can spend 1 point from her phrenic pool to manifest an aura of insanity, letting bits of her psyche penetrate the minds of those around her. The aura is centered on the psychic marauder and has a radius of 10 feet, increasing by 5 feet for every 3 class levels beyond 3rd. Any creature starting its turn within the aura must succeed at a Will save (DC = 10 + half the psychic marauder’s level + the psychic marauder’s Charisma modifier) or be confused for 1 round. The psychic marauder can exclude a number of targets inside the radius equal to 1 + 1 for every 3 class levels beyond 3rd, shielding them from her madness. The aura of insanity lasts for a number of rounds equal to the psychic marauder’s Charisma modifier. This is a mind- affecting effect.
At 11th level, when a creature rolls to determine the effects of a confusion effect while within the aura of insanity, the psychic marauder can spend 1 point from her phrenic pool to force the affected creature to roll twice. The psychic marauder selects which result is used.
At 19th level, when a creature would roll to determine the effects of a confusion effect while within the aura of insanity, the psychic marauder can spend 2 points from her phrenic pool to select the result of the affected creature’s confused condition without rolling. This does not allow the psychic marauder to control how that result is applied.
This ability replaces the phrenic amplifications gained at 3rd, 11th, and 19th levels.
Cracked Perspectives (Ex): At 9th level, a psychic marauder’s growing madness renders her immune to confusion and insanity effects.
This ability replaces telepathic bond.
Unreal Understanding (Ex): At 20th level, a psychic marauder’s mindset becomes completely aberrant, to the point that no outside force can penetrate her psyche. Because of this, the psychic marauder becomes immune to all mind-affecting effects.
This ability replaces remade self.
The aura of insanity is the main draw, and it's bad. You have to get close, you have to burn phrenic points to use it and especially to use it effectively, and it costs too much to get the ability. Just cast Confusion or Id Insinuation.

Rivethun (Psychic Discipline)
You have embraced those aspects of your body that cause you agony, respecting the perspective they grant you if not necessarily the roles they’ve condemned you to in life.
Phrenic Pool Ability: Charisma.
Bonus Spells: Heightened awarenessACG (1st), bear’s endurance (4th), aura sightACG (6th), persistent vigorACG (8th), true seeing (10th), thought shield VOA (12th), mind blank (14th), iron body (16th), Akashic formOA (18th).
Discipline Powers: Your powers relate to your discipline and mastery of mind over matter.
Agitating Cognizance (Su): Whenever you are not maintaining an altered form via metamorphosis (including the 24 hours normally required to assume a new form), your maximum number of points in your phrenic pool increases by 1.
Metamorphosis (Su): By meditating for 1 hour, you can trigger a slow, physical metamorphosis that takes 24 hours to complete (during which you do not gain the benefits of this new form). This ability cannot change your type or subtype, grant new abilities or natural weapons, or change your size category, but otherwise allows you to transform your appearance into anything possible for creatures of your type and subtype. You gain a +1 enhancement bonus to one physical ability score of your choice (Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution) while in this altered form. This bonus increases by 1 for every 5 psychic levels you have. Your shape and ability score bonus persist until you assume a new form or your current altered form ends. When meditating to begin your metamorphosis, you can spend 1 point from your phrenic pool either to change your size category to Small or Medium, or to gain a new ability from those provided by the alter self spell. If you do so, your altered form lasts only 1 hour per level.
Spirit Channeling (Su): As your self-awareness expands, you become increasingly attuned to the spirit world around you. At 5th level, as part of your meditation to initiate metamorphosis, you can invite a wandering spirit to share your body as if you were a shaman (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 37). You gain the associated 1st-level spirit ability as long as you maintain your altered form, but your metamorphosis form also exhibits some aspect of the spirit you host, such as vivid red hair for a flame spirit or gauntness for a bone spirit.
Greater Spirit Channeling (Su): At 13th level, when you open your body to a wandering spirit, you also gain that wandering spirit’s greater spirit ability as long as you are in a metamorphosed form.

The spell list is bad, the flavor of this is cool. Rivethun is heavily associated with transpeople, and the metamorphosis ability captures that. I'm not sure how the optional alter self effect is supposed to work, but as written you wait 24 hours after triggering to get a 1/hr effect. That's not great. The spirit channeling stuff is conceptionally very cool and gives some flexibility, but most of the spirit abilities don't look all that ysefyk. Heavens gives you a debuff, Life lets you channel positive energy, Slums is good survivability and mobility in the city, the rest are pretty weak, highly situational, unfortunately focused on melee, or all of the above.

SORROW (PSYCHIC DISCIPLINE)
You draw strength from deep feelings of abandonment, loneliness, and sadness, turning these emotions into a powerful weapon or a barrier that protects you.
Phrenic Pool Ability: Charisma.
Bonus Spells: Sanctuary (1st), silence (4th), nondetection (6th), crushing despair (8th), mind fog (10th), eyebite (12th), sequester (14th), maze (16th), imprisonment (18th).
Discipline Powers: Through your powers, you can use overwhelming sorrow to protect yourself and weaken others.
Numb to the Pain (Ex): You gain a morale bonus equal to your Charisma bonus on saving throws against mind- affecting spells and effects. This bonus cannot exceed your psychic level.
Despair (Su): When a creature within 30 feet rolls for
an attack, a save against a fear effect, or a skill check, you can flood its mind with a feeling of hopelessness as an immediate action before the roll is made. The target takes a –1 penalty on the roll. The penalty increases by 1 for every 6 psychic levels you have beyond 1st, to a maximum of –4 at 19th level. If the target fails its attack roll, save, or skill check, you regain 1 point in your phrenic pool. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier. This is a mind-affecting emotionUM effect.
Wave of Gloom (Su): At 5th level, by expending 1 use of your despair ability as a standard action, you can project a strong feeling of dejection. All creatures within 30 feet of you must succeed at a Will save or take a penalty on attack rolls, saves against fear effects, and skill checks for 1d4 minutes. The penalty is equal to (but doesn’t stack with) the penalty provided by your despair ability. The DC of the saving throw equals 10 + half your psychic level + your Charisma modifier. You’re immune to your own wave of gloom. This is a mind-affecting emotion effect.
Fortress of Sorrow (Sp): At 13th level, you can mentally construct an extraplanar retreat on the Astral Plane. This ability functions as lesser create demiplane with a caster level equal to your psychic level, with the following adjustments: you need no focus to create the fortress of sorrow; the demiplane is permanent until dismissed by you; you cannot create more than one demiplane with this ability or add to the plane’s area by casting the spell again; the light level on the demiplane is dim, though light sources affect it normally; and you cannot bring other creatures to your demiplane. Once per day, you can enter your demiplane (as plane shift), and once per day, you can return in a similar manner, arriving at the same spot you left from (or the nearest available space).

An interesting and sometimes useful spell list and very thematic for its connections to the Lost Prince. Good save buff, good defensive (or Phantasmal Killer supporting) debuff with abusable phrenic pool refilling capability if your party cooperates, cool capstone ability. Wave of Gloom is kind of situational, but that's ok.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Sorrow looks pretty decent at first glance. Good for an 'edgelord.'

I don't know what 'rivethun' is. Apparently it has something to do with dwarves? Looks weird.

And yeah, that archetype is a hot pile of garbage. The fact that it mostly just replaces a number of phrenic amp choices isn't the worst thing in the world, since phrenic amps aren't the *greatest* thing under the sun, but it's still objectively worse than the stock psychic.

[Slithery D]

Rivethun is some obscure dwarven philosophy created as part of the background of the transgender dwarven Shaman iconic when they wrote the iconic backstory. It gets a chapter in Adventurer's Handbook and got a feat or trait or something in Haunted Heroes Handbook, I think that is it mechanically. I haven't actually read AH in detail yet to see how much the flesh it out in terms of flavor and history and what it actually is.

[Florian]

Do I read Wave of Gloom right? No way to exclude your party?

[Slithery D]

Do I read Wave of Gloom right? No way to exclude your party?

That's right. The Psychic has a number of spells with that same limitation. Personally I've never seen the attraction of running into the middle of a group of enemies to blow them up before the rest of my party comes to keep me alive. Even less so when I'm only delivering a debuff.

[Krazzman]

I had planned going Fighter//Mindblade with an upcoming character. But since we use 3.5's Spellpoints system this is a LOT less effective then thought (mostly because blasting spells are "always" cast at the lowest level... which I am not sure my DM will rule otherwise).

As such I decided on Psychic (to cast in Full plate and not completely having to rework the character).

But I have some questions:
Are there any other more fitting Implements I should take except Faith for a Brawny Heavy Melee type character with some utility casting?
Is there a way to get Phrenic Strike to be usable with a Greatsword/Butchering Axe/other weapons in general?
Which Mythic Path should/can I choose for such a character?

Note: the character is an android with an alternative racial trait trading out Emotionless for... something else (not sure right now)?

[TorqueSpec]

I noticed this and felt the need to bring it to your attention CTP:

ACP actually WILL apply in a meaningful way to a Psychic. When you are not proficient in armor, it affects ALL Str- and Dex-based skill and ability checks. This includes initiative! I'm not sure the AC bonus makes up for tanking your ability to go first in a fight, especially considering the controller nature of the class. Worth looking into for a revision, should you choose to revisit the guide. If Improved Initiative is blue, wearing full plate should be red (though lesser armors could have an argument made for them).

From CRB, pg 150:
Nonproficient with Armor Worn: A character who wears armor and/or uses a shield with which he is not proficient takes the armor's (and/or shield's) armor check penalty on attack rolls as well as on all Dexterity- and Strength-based ability and skill checks. The penalty for nonproficiency with armor stacks with the penalty for shields.

From CRB, pg 178:
Initiative
At the start of a battle, each combatant makes an initiative check. An initiative check is a Dexterity check.

[Slithery D]

Blood of the Coven has a new discipline, Hag-Called. A hag’s call echoes through your mind like a siren’s song, enticing you to surrender and become something horrible. Even after you’ve resisted the call or even killed your hag mother, those echoes remain, shaping your mind into something else and telling you who you were meant to be. While you’re almost certainly a changeling, you might be a latent psychic who came into accidental psychic contact with a hag’s call through a changeling associate, or your dreams might have long been infested by a night hag’s machinations.
Phrenic Pool Ability: Charisma
Bonus Spells: Ill omenAPG (1st), enthrall (4th), bestow curse (6th), charm monster (8th), threefold aspectAPG (10th), veil (12th), control weather (14th), trap the soul (16th), dominate monster (18th).
Discipline Powers: The echoes of the hag’s call shapes the psychic potential of your mind, granting you exceptional abilities that might one day exceed the hag’s own.
Threefold Casting (Ex): While you cannot join a true witch’s coven, you are nonetheless skilled at casting magic in conjunction with others. You gain a +2 insight bonus on skill checks for ritual magic in which you have at least two secondary casters. In addition, whenever you are within 30 feet of another hag, psychic, or witch, you can use the aid another action to grant a +1 bonus to the other spellcaster’s caster level for 1 round.
Mother’s Embrace (Su): The hag’s call grows stronger as you grow more desperate, promising protection and release if only you would succumb. When you would fail a Will save, you can add 1d4 to your result; whether or not this causes you to succeed at the saving throw, you take 2 points of Wisdom damage. When you perform an act of cruelty, you regain 1 phrenic pool point. You can use each aspect of this ability a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier.
Deceptive Shapes (Su): At 5th level, you learn the hag’s art of concealing your true face to get what you want. You can change into any Small or Medium humanoid at will as alter self, though you don’t gain any special abilities or ability score adjustments. You can’t replicate a specific person using this ability.
Curse Mastery (Sp): At 13th level, you have made the accursed magic of the hags your own. You become immune to spells of the curse subschool and curse effects. Furthermore, the DCs of your spells with the curse descriptor increase by 1, and you can apply the overpowering mind and synaptic shock phrenic amplifications to spells with the curse descriptor so long as you have learned those amplifications.

I like it. Some decent spells, a really bad 1st level ability to counter the free (if you're a jerk/evil) phrenic pool refresh and situationally useful defensive ability, plus a sweet disguise ability (compare to the Rakshasha bloodline permanent Alter Self that I've always admired) and a nice 13th level boost to a niche Necromancy build I've always liked. Being able to cast a sky high DC Spell Perfected Major Curse or Conditional Curse with an automatic round of confuse is a great debuff opener.

[Ilorin Lorati]

I noticed this and felt the need to bring it to your attention CTP:

ACP actually WILL apply in a meaningful way to a Psychic. When you are not proficient in armor, it affects ALL Str- and Dex-based skill and ability checks. This includes initiative! I'm not sure the AC bonus makes up for tanking your ability to go first in a fight, especially considering the controller nature of the class. Worth looking into for a revision, should you choose to revisit the guide. If Improved Initiative is blue, wearing full plate should be red (though lesser armors could have an argument made for them).


At a certain level this is true, though I'd go out on a limb and say that even when combined with mithral, a steelbone frame, and a Comfort enchantment (a "whopping" 22500 gold if I remember the numbers off the top of my head) to reduce the ACP to 0 it's still probably the most cost effective AC item a psychic can purchase by a significant margin if the psychic cares about AC for some reason.

[CockroachTeaParty]

I noticed this and felt the need to bring it to your attention CTP:

ACP actually WILL apply in a meaningful way to a Psychic. When you are not proficient in armor, it affects ALL Str- and Dex-based skill and ability checks. This includes initiative! I'm not sure the AC bonus makes up for tanking your ability to go first in a fight, especially considering the controller nature of the class. Worth looking into for a revision, should you choose to revisit the guide. If Improved Initiative is blue, wearing full plate should be red (though lesser armors could have an argument made for them).

From CRB, pg 150:
Nonproficient with Armor Worn: A character who wears armor and/or uses a shield with which he is not proficient takes the armor's (and/or shield's) armor check penalty on attack rolls as well as on all Dexterity- and Strength-based ability and skill checks. The penalty for nonproficiency with armor stacks with the penalty for shields.

From CRB, pg 178:
Initiative
At the start of a battle, each combatant makes an initiative check. An initiative check is a Dexterity check.

That's a good catch!

[CockroachTeaParty]

Hagfish are gross.

Hm... that looks like it's got potential. Curses are an unorthodox tactic that most GMs probably don't plan for.

The bonus spell list is pretty 'meh' though, especially when you get to the double digits (not counting Dominate Monster).

[EmiliaS]

I think you highly underrate Transfer Fear, since demoralize is a fear effect you can just grab yourself an intimidate bonus and intimidate the fear away even if you're under a fear effect. Grab yourself the omen trait and do it once a day as a swift action, maybe the bruising intellect trait if you're a wis based discipline to get intimidate to int. Even if you're fighting undead or something immune to fear, intimidate a party member to take away your fear, they might not be too happy, but shaken is less crippling on them than it is on you xD

(the gm might not be too happy if you start intimidating your teammates but RAW it works)

[CockroachTeaParty]

Quoting the section concerning Phrenic Amplifications:

"The psychic can activate a phrenic amplification only while casting a spell using psychic magic"

So using Intimidate to shrug off fear with Transfer Fear wouldn't work.

[EmiliaS]

Oops, I missed that part. Then your rating makes a lot more sense.

[zook1shoe]

You've done a phenomenal job on the handbook. I love it!

Rivethun is the real name for the Spirit Channeled discipline you already rated.

As mentioned, there are several unlisted disciplines, like Hag-Called, Superiority, and Warp (check them out on Nethys (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/PsychicDisciplines.aspx)).

What are your thoughts on them?