Warforged Assassin build help

[warper]

Hey guys, just been looking at the Assassin's Handbook and saw the Telflammar Shadowlord PrC under suggestions. I figured some of you guys might want to join me in working on this. I had never see this before and it looks pretty cool, so I decided I want to see what this would look like. Final outcome looks like this: 5 levels in base classes, 9 levels Assassin, and 6 levels Telflammar Shadowlord. 5 base/9 Assassin/6 Shadowlord

As you can see I haven't decided what the base levels will be, specifically, that is what I want the most help figuring out. I'm looking at 32 point buy
-I'd like to be able to do this without flaws, though I know it's really heavy and would be interested to see options as if I had flaws.
-I don't want anything that incurs level adjustment. (That means no shadow walker template)
-I don't want to use monk, or ranged combat. No Tome of Battle
-I want lots of skills and was thinking to start with a 16 intelligence
To start, I know I want to do melee combat with a Warforged.
-Looking at the Mithral body feat, seems nice, if I have 16 dex and get a +6 dex item though.... looks like I need Twilight and Nimbleness armor properties? But that would still leave me with 5% ASF.
I'm also looking for a name. This Warforged was built as an Assassin by Assassins to Assassinate. I don't want a name like Deathbot or Killbot V2.0.
If you guys are looking for more information, please ask. I have thought up a backstory if anyone is interested, though I haven't finished it.
Soo... Thoughts?

[Deadline]

Expected entry for Assassin is Rogue 5. Any reason why that wouldn't work?

[BowStreetRunner]

I'm also looking for a name. This Warforged was built as an Assassin by Assassins to Assassinate. I don't want a name like Deathbot or Killbot V2.0.
How about Osvetnik? It's Serbo-Croatian for Nemesis.

[warper]

How about Osvetnik? It's Serbo-Croatian for Nemesis.

That is badass!

As far as rogue, I was wondering if anyone had ideas for abilities I could get that are interesting without loosing skill points. I was kind of hoping to see if anyone could argue for factotum. I'm just still looking is all, there's a lot of material and I might have missed some variant gem or something.

[Troacctid]

There is one armor enhancement that is absolutely essential to your build, and that is Mobility, from Magic Item Compendium. It gives you the Mobility feat, which you need for Telflammar Shadowlord, and spending gold on it is WAY better than spending a feat slot.

If you have 16 Intelligence, I might actually suggest Psychic Rogue. You'd lose out on a die of sneak attack and 2 skill points per level, but you get manifesting, which is very strong. At 5 levels of PsyRogue with 16 Int, you're looking at 13 PP/day, or up to 19 PP/day if you take Practiced Manifester (and you probably should). Take Expanded Knowledge and you can pick up Dimension Hop for a swift-action teleport to use with Shadow Pounce.

Another option is Rogue 3/Totemist 2. (Three levels of Rogue gets you Penetrating Strike, so you can sneak attack enemies that would normally be immune, and two levels of Totemist is a natural breakpoint because the third level is dead.) The Totemist's natural weapons go great with sneak attack and shadow pounce, and it means you don't need a lot of BAB in order to make a lot of attacks. Warforged are also naturally well-suited for a natural weapon strategy, since they come with a built-in slam attack and can take the Jaws of Death feat to get a bite attack too. That means at Totemist 2, with Girallon Arms bound, you can be making six attacks, which is pretty nifty if I may say so. Blink Shirt also provides an at-will teleport for easy shadowpouncing, and you can take Midnight Dodge instead of Dodge to get essentia (which is great) instead of a +1 dodge bonus (which is crap). If you go this route, I recommend taking Multiattack when you can find a free feat slot.

FYI, you don't need to worry about spell failure on Assassin spells if you take Mithral Body. Assassins cast their spells like a Bard, which includes ignoring arcane spell failure for light armor. Telflammar Shadowlord doesn't have that clause, but by the time you hit level 15, you should have no trouble procuring as many Bracers of Arcane Freedom as you need.

[warper]

Would the armor enhancement allow me to skip it and take Spring Attack? In other words, does that Mobility enchancement actually work?

I need to refresh myself on the Magic of Incarnum book in general. I own the book... but it's at my house and I'll be visiting this weekend. Any pointers for that book?

That is what I was thinking is that I don't need all of the sneak attack from rogue because Assassin gets plenty. I will look at the power list and see if I would be willing to accept Psychic Rogue.

It looks like if I don't stick to Rogue or Factotum then I will lose skill points. Perhaps I should live with a flaw for Open Minded

[Sian]

Note that Warforged and Telflammar shadowlord is cross setting (one is Eberron, one is Forgotten Realms) and that this might/might not cause it to not be accepted by your DM

[ILM]

Technically with enough intelligence you get enough skill points to make the skill requirements of Assassin with just 2 levels of Rogue or Factotum. If you're going to have high Int, you might go for Swashbuckler 3/ Factotum 2 for example. Only lose 1 BAB, get 2x Int to damage. Or work in a level of Monk and take the Carmendine Monk feat for Int to AC. I did Swashbuckler 3/ Fighter 1/ Swordsage 1 for one of my characters - but we do have a houserule in effect that makes all skills class skills for every class (wouldn't be possible otherwise).

P.S. You may want to check with your DM that he's happy for you to qualify for a PrC with an item... And that he's not going to constantly try to screw you over by having all the NPCs try to steal or sunder it and make you lose all your class abilities.

[warper]

Technically with enough intelligence you get enough skill points to make the skill requirements of Assassin with just 2 levels of Rogue or Factotum. If you're going to have high Int, you might go for Swashbuckler 3/ Factotum 2 for example. Only lose 1 BAB, get 2x Int to damage. Or work in a level of Monk and take the Carmendine Monk feat for Int to AC. I did Swashbuckler 3/ Fighter 1/ Swordsage 1 for one of my characters - but we do have a houserule in effect that makes all skills class skills for every class (wouldn't be possible otherwise).

P.S. You may want to check with your DM that he's happy for you to qualify for a PrC with an item... And that he's not going to constantly try to screw you over by having all the NPCs try to steal or sunder it and make you lose all your class abilities.

Um, I don't know how he would steal my body. :smallbiggrin:

If you read my OP then you would notice I said no monk. The swashbuckler loses way too many skill points for me to put in so many levels unless I take Open Minded, I don't need Int to damage with so much sneak attack. For the item, yea that's basically what I was asking the other guy, I agree, let's assume he won't let me do that and assume I need the feat.

I know they are from different settings, Telflammar Shadowlord's requirements practically scream Forgotten Realms (Servants of Mask, among other things.) I'm building this on the assumption that it would be allowed. I'm really interested in looking at MoI now because I've never really tried to use it. What kind of skill points does totemist get?

Edit: I really like the factotum ability: Brains over Brawn

[dysprosium]

Food for thought:

You will most definitely need the Darkstalker feat from Lords of Madness. It is almost "required" for any kind of stealth character.

You may also be interested in the warforged scout as a base race. Small size gives advantages for sneaky style play.

[warper]

Ah yes.... Darkstalker. Definitely a must. Let's see.... Mithral Body, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Blind-Fight, Weapon Finesse, and Darkstalker for 7 feats. If I do end up going Factotum then I'll want some Fonts of Inspiration. Yeah... gonna need flaws it looks like. Or.... I might have to dip fighter 1 or 2. Actually I think I'd rather go rogue with the feat variant if I can.

Classy avatar by the way Dysprosium

edit: ugh, and Knowledge Devotion

[Troacctid]

Would the armor enhancement allow me to skip it and take Spring Attack? In other words, does that Mobility enchancement actually work?
Yes.


edit: ugh, and Knowledge Devotion
I'd work out what my skills are going to look like before taking Knowledge Devotion. Remember that neither Assassin nor Telflammar Shadowlord has any Knowledges as class skills, and Rogue only has Local. You also have a lot of other skills that you want to buy.

[warper]

I'd work out what my skills are going to look like before taking Knowledge Devotion. Remember that neither Assassin nor Telflammar Shadowlord has any Knowledges as class skills, and Rogue only has Local. You also have a lot of other skills that you want to buy.

True enough, alright, let's see, I want:
Max poisonmaking (depends on downtime to actually use though)
max use magic device
max hide (The idea of the build)
max move silently (don't want to get caught scouting for traps and such)
max search (I expect to fulfill trapfinder role)
5 ranks in balance (Not be flatfooted in marbles that I may or may not have thrown)
5+ disable device (I'm not sure if I want to max)
4 ranks disguise (I might want more depending on how much usage I'd get in a campaign)
2 ranks Knowledge local (thesk)
Intimidate: I like intimidate.... depends on how much room I have
5+ Sleight of hand (not sure)
5+ tumble (need to beat dc 25)
5+ craft alchemy (if I have room)

I also like the Conceal Spellcasting skill trick, however it requires 1 rank concentration, 1 spellcraft, and 2 points besides.
Their are more that I want but this is the core that I'm looking for at a quick glance. How important is it for a warforged to have a repair skill? Is it helpful at later levels?

Edit: I'm leaning closer to Factotum because it get nifty abilities as well as skills and I reread the whole inspiration thing, I forgot that they replenished for every encounter!

[Ellowryn]

Factotum is a good sneak class, but do realize the best possible break point is 8th level for Cunning Surge. And as you pointed out you need a stupid amount of feats to get everything you want. If you really want Factotum then you would work out with a build something like this: Factotum 8/Assassin 8/Telflammar Shadowlord 4. This isnt a bad build, but depending on your starting point it could feel like a massive drag. Personally i prefer the Rogue 3/Totemist 2/Assassin 9/Shadowlord 6 build as it gives you Dimension Door as a move action thanks to Blink Shirt. I would also try and find a way to get the Dragonblood subtype as there are some good Dragonblood only Soulmelds out of the Dragon Magic book.

Also, if you are going to be the trap finder than you really need to also be the trap disabler as most often traps are found blocking your path so you can't just avoid them.

[Dread_Head]

Factotum 3 is also a good break point for an int based character as int to Str & dex checks is pretty huge. Maybe go Rogue 1 / Factotum 3 / Rogue +1 with the fighter feat variant of rogue before entering assassin. This would give 2 fighter feats, enough skill points to grab most (if not all of) those skills. Trade the rogues extraneous trapfinding for something from here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?444354-3-5-Alternative-Class-Features-(ported-from-Wizards-community-boards)&p=19866363#post19866363) as you gain it again from factotum, I'd suggest poison use but you are immune anyway.

The suggestion of including Totemist 2 in your build for blink shirt is a good one, but note that as it duplicates dimension door it still ends your turn even though it only takes a move action. Thus it doesn't combo if you are using dimension door (or an ability that duplicates it) as your other method of teleporting as you can only use one a turn. If you have a different standard action teleport which doesn't end your turn then this is excellent as it lets you get off two full attacks a turn.

Consider two levels of monk in your build, you can use them to grab dodge and mobility (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#cobraStrike), freeing up a feat or two from your original build. Also good to take is the Invisible Fist substitution level from Exemplars of Evil which lets you go invisible 1/4 rounds as an immediate action. You would need to take unarmoured body instead of mithral though unfortunatly, but Carmendine Monk or Kung Fu genius would let you add your Int to AC which could make up for it. This would also open up the Sun school tactical feat from Complete Warrior which lets you make an extra attack against any opponent you teleport next to.

Also not that if you are considering taking Craft (alchemy) anyway you can use it to make poisons at only a -4 penalty and save on purchasing skill ranks in both it and Craft (poisonmaking).

[warper]

Also, if you are going to be the trap finder than you really need to also be the trap disabler as most often traps are found blocking your path so you can't just avoid them.

Yea I agree, what I don't understand is when people claim to not need it, just activate the trap and move on. In my experience a lot of magical traps reset themselves immediately.

I looked up this blink shirt thing, I'm not impressed. I can just get an anklet of translocation right?

I'm looking at factotum 3/ rogue 2 with the fighter feat variant. What does the mimic variant for rogue do?

[Troacctid]

Anklet of Translocation will do you for two activations per day. Blink Shirt is usable at will. Teleportation is an effect that goes up in value significantly when it has unlimited uses--you can blink around past obstacles, out of grapples, past traps, whatever.

Mimic can be found in Exemplars of Evil, and it replaces trapfinding with the ability to use Disguise Self as a spell-like ability. It's a good choice if you're not planning to invest in trapfinding skills, or if you have trapfinding from another class such as Factotum. The alternatives are the one from Complete Champion that lets you Appraise and identify divine items, which is meh, or the one from Drow of the Underdark that gives you poison use, which is completely pointless as Warforged are already immune to poison.

[Twurps]

I know you said 'no monk' but I want to mention this anyway:

2 levels of the 'cobra strike' monk variant will net you both dodge and mobility, which are prereq's for TfSL
At lvl 1, you can take the 'decisive strike' ACF from PHII: Trade flurry of blows for double damage on 1 attack
At lvl 2, you can trade evasion (which you might or might not be getting from rogue anyway), for a 1 round invisibility (invisible fist ACF from EoE)

All, (with the exeption of mobility,as you can get it an armor property) very usefull stuff for a sneaky build.