Javelin Ranger

[FocusWolf413]

If I take TWF, Rapid Shot, and Far Shot, is a ranger build that throws javelins viable? I can add dex to damage because we're using Giants and Graveyards.

[BowStreetRunner]

You should probably have Quick Draw in there.

[Troacctid]

You should probably have Quick Draw in there.

Nah, use Gloves of Endless Javelins to generate new ones as a free action.

[FocusWolf413]

You should probably have Quick Draw in there.

With Giants and Graveyards, quick draw, power attack, combat expertise, and a few other feats at bab +1.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?329161-Giants-and-Graveyards-Grod-s-collected-3-5-revisions

I'm wondering if I'm just better off using a bow at longer range. I'm going to be using a switch hitting build.

[justiceforall]

Look up Tormtor School feat.

[FocusWolf413]

Look up Tormtor School feat.

Oh.
Oh yes.
I would absolutely take that if I wasn't dipping around Path of War and Tome of Battle for maneuvers.

[nedz]

Mystic Ranger 6 / Stormlord 10 is worth a look.
You can do it with a Ranger 11 entry but it's a bit late.

[Psyren]

If I take TWF, Rapid Shot, and Far Shot, is a ranger build that throws javelins viable? I can add dex to damage because we're using Giants and Graveyards.

If you have Dex to damage with no strings then any ranged style is viable.

My suggestion is to find a way to make Javelins count as Light so you're not eating -4/-4 penalties.

[Darrin]

My suggestion is to find a way to make Javelins count as Light so you're not eating -4/-4 penalties.

Oversized TWF will make them count as light for TWF. Even so, combining Rapid Shot and TWF will still be a -4 penalty... unless you have Tormtor School.

Hmmm. Speaking of Tormtor school, here's something interesting...

"You take no penalty when making a melee attack with a javelin."

This makes Oversized TWF unnecessary... and since the text doesn't specify which penalty, by RAW this applies to *any* penalty, such as Power Attack, Combat Expertise, etc.

Huh. So javelin may be the ultimate THF weapon: grip it two-handed, PA/Leap Attack and you don't even need Shock Trooper anymore.

If we add Bloodstorm Blade/Thunderous Throw, you can PA on ranged attacks. No range/cover penalties... what other penalties can we ignore?

[RolandDeschain]

"no penalty"; "melee attack"

Javelin

Since it is not designed for melee, you are treated as nonproficient with it and take a -4 penalty on attack rolls if you use a javelin as a melee weapon.

it doesn't say penalties nor does it indicate any other type of penalty it disqualifies...

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Mystic Ranger 6 / Stormlord 10 is worth a look.
You can do it with a Ranger 11 entry but it's a bit late.

I'm going to agree that Mystic Ranger 6 into Stormlord is a superb choice. Maybe take Mystic Ranger 7 since Improved Combat Style is delayed by one level, but otherwise it's more or less ideal.

Otherwise I would make it something like Cloistered Cleric 1/ Scout 3 or 4/ Ranger 11+ with Swift Hunter, and replace your domains with Knowledge Devotion, Animal Devotion, and Travel Devotion.

[BowStreetRunner]

..."You take no penalty when making a melee attack with a javelin."...what other penalties can we ignore?
Sure, why not? When making a melee attack with a javelin every penalty that applies to you is currently wiped away, at least until you are finished making the melee attack. Kobold with a -4 racial penalty to Strength? Not while making a melee attack with a javelin! Suffering a -2 to attack and -4 to Dexterity because you are Entangled? Just attack with a javelin and ignore all of that! Got a -8 attack bonus for being Colossal size? No problem! Just attack with a javelin! Range penalties? Not with a javelin! Come to the Tormtor School and we'll teach you how to get around all of those pesky penalties!

[nedz]

If you have Dex to damage with no strings then any ranged style is viable.

My suggestion is to find a way to make Javelins count as Light so you're not eating -4/-4 penalties.

Unfortunately we don't know whether Javelins are Light, One-handed or Two-handed — only that they are thrown missile weapons which can be used in melle. This is a known dysfunction.


I'm going to agree that Mystic Ranger 6 into Stormlord is a superb choice. Maybe take Mystic Ranger 7 since Improved Combat Style is delayed by one level, but otherwise it's more or less ideal.

Maybe using the Throwing (DR326 p97) Combat style to pick up Quick Draw and Point Blank Shot ?

[Darrin]

Unfortunately we don't know whether Javelins are Light, One-handed or Two-handed — only that they are thrown missile weapons which can be used in melle. This is a known dysfunction.


Well, we know at least within the context of TWF. PHB page 160:

"Thrown Weapons: The same rules apply when you throw a weapon from each hand. Treat a dart or shuriken as a light weapon when used in this manner, and treat a bolas, javelin, net, or sling as a one-handed weapon."

Of course, the context of "in this manner" means "when you throw a weapon from each hand", which only addresses ranged attacks. But I don't see why a weapon that is one-handed when you throw it suddenly loses its handedness when you stab with it instead.

[Necroticplague]

Hmmm. Speaking of Tormtor school, here's something interesting...

"You take no penalty when making a melee attack with a javelin."

This makes Oversized TWF unnecessary... and since the text doesn't specify which penalty, by RAW this applies to *any* penalty, such as Power Attack, Combat Expertise, etc.

Huh. So javelin may be the ultimate THF weapon: grip it two-handed, PA/Leap Attack and you don't even need Shock Trooper anymore.

If we add Bloodstorm Blade/Thunderous Throw, you can PA on ranged attacks. No range/cover penalties... what other penalties can we ignore?

Beat you to this idea a week or two ago.

Although, I was more interested as to how it works with Aptitude. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?442612-Adaptive-Tormtor-School-Power-Attack-Does-this-work)

As for other penalties you might use:
-Defensive Fighting/Combat Expertise.
-Snap Kick.
-Whirling Frenzy. (I think. isn't the extra attack at -2?)
-Stone Power.
-Size for being above Medium.

[nedz]

Beat you to this idea a week or two ago.

Although, I was more interested as to how it works with Aptitude. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?442612-Adaptive-Tormtor-School-Power-Attack-Does-this-work)

As for other penalties you might use:
-Defensive Fighting/Combat Expertise.
-Snap Kick.
-Whirling Frenzy. (I think. isn't the extra attack at -2?)
-Stone Power.
-Size for being above Medium.

Actually someone posted this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?342511-Javelins-how-much-can-you-do-with-them) about a year and a half back.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Maybe using the Throwing (DR326 p97) Combat style to pick up Quick Draw and Point Blank Shot ?

It would be better to skip Quick-Draw and get Gloves of Endless Javelins, for unlimited +1 Javelins whenever you need them. The two-weapon and archery styles are equally good for this, assuming you want Improved Rapid Shot which makes Manyshot necessary.

[BowStreetRunner]

It would be better to skip Quick-Draw and get Gloves of Endless Javelins, for unlimited +1 Javelins whenever you need them. The two-weapon and archery styles are equally good for this, assuming you want Improved Rapid Shot which makes Manyshot necessary.
The OP appears to be using a system called Giants and Graveyards that grants Combat Expertise, Imp Shield Bash, Imp Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Precise Shot, and Quick Draw for free when a character's BAB reaches +1. See above.

[carrdrivesyou]

You also might try the Craven feat. IIRC it's in Champions of Ruin. It basically adds your level as precision typed damage.