Dragonfire Adept Invocation question

[RandomlyInspire]

My friend was reading through the Dragonfire Adept's Invocation list and thinks he has come across a problem with the invocation "See the Unseen". His point is that he believes the ability to see invisibility only lasts 10 min/level while it is only the dark-vision that lasts 24 hours. On a side note of this, I was also wondering if being able to see an invisible creature would negate the usual +2 they get to attack?

[Jeff the Green]

That's horribly written. The way I read it, you use the invocation, which gives you darkvision 60 ft. Then you can use see invisibility, which lasts 10 min/level. I'd never noticed that before, and I don't know whether it's intentional or wise.

I think they maintain the +2, since it's a property of being invisible, not of not being seen. That's stupid, and wouldn't fly if I were DMing.

[torrasque666]

That's horribly written. The way I read it, you use the invocation, which gives you darkvision 60 ft. Then you can use see invisibility, which lasts 10 min/level. I'd never noticed that before, and I don't know whether it's intentional or wise.

I think they maintain the +2, since it's a property of being invisible, not of not being seen. That's stupid, and wouldn't fly if I were DMing.
But if someone is blind, their attackers get the +2 because their victim can't see them, and are treated as invisible because of that. Stands to follow that if you can see someone who's invisible, they don't get the +2, just like someone who isn't invisible doesn't.

[Jeff the Green]

But if someone is blind, their attackers get the +2 because their victim can't see them, and are treated as invisible because of that. Stands to follow that if you can see someone who's invisible, they don't get the +2, just like someone who isn't invisible doesn't.

I thought that was the case, but I can't find where it says that. Being blind imposes an AC penalty, as per (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#blinded), but at least there it doesn't say it gives a bonus to attackers.

[torrasque666]

I thought that was the case, but I can't find where it says that. Being blind imposes an AC penalty, as per (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#blinded), but at least there it doesn't say it gives a bonus to attackers.
However, Table 8-5 in the PHB does state that an invisible attacker doesn't gain any attack bonuses against a blind opponent. Probably because of that -2 AC for being blinded. Its effectively the same thing.

[Jeff the Green]

However, Table 8-5 in the PHB does state that an invisible attacker doesn't gain any attack bonuses against a blind opponent. Probably because of that -2 AC for being blinded. Its effectively the same thing.

Ah, good. We don't need another dysfunctional rule. It's odd that there's two separate rules rather than a single "if you can't see your opponent, you take a -2 penalty to attack", but as you say, it ends up being the same.

[BowStreetRunner]

...The way I read it, you use the invocation, which gives you darkvision 60 ft. Then you can use see invisibility, which lasts 10 min/level...
RAW this is indeed the way it works. RAI I would also tend to believe this makes sense. Remember, invocations can be used at will, unlike spells. So the darkvision only needs to be renewed daily but the more powerful see invisibility needs to be renewed more frequently.

[Mr Adventurer]

RAW this is indeed the way it works. RAI I would also tend to believe this makes sense. Remember, invocations can be used at will, unlike spells. So the darkvision only needs to be renewed daily but the more powerful see invisibility needs to be renewed more frequently.

They're both the same spell level.

[Jeff the Green]

They're both the same spell level.

But darkvision lasts six times as long.

[Mr Adventurer]

But darkvision lasts six times as long.

I know. There's nothing to say that see invisibility is a 'more powerful' spell, though.