How to make a Dungeon Bard? 3.5

[Alex1983]

I'm thinking of playing a Bard in a 3.5 game which is basically 100% dungeon exploring.
Is this possible? Any suggestions?
I'm thinking of substituting the fascination, and suggestion, and countersong for combat focused abilities maybe?
It's starting at level 1 and these books are allowed:

Player's Handbook
Player's Handbook II
Dungeon Master's Guide
Monster Manual
Monster Manual II
Arms & Equipment Guide
Complete Adventurer
Complete Arcane
Complete Champion
Complete Divine
Complete Mage
Complete Scoundrel
Complete Warrior
Races of Destiny
Races of Eberron
Races of Faerun
Races of Stone
Races of the Dragon
Races of the Wild
Unearthed Arcana (Subject to DM approval)

Creation machanics: Starting PC's use a 32 point buy cap unless their race has a level adjustment (LA), then see the LA chart. No "base" score higher than 18 prior to racial additions/subtractions, and you cannot lower a score below 10 to gain points for use in another ability (feel free to do it for fun, however). Level adjustment races are allowed via the point buy system. No creature with an LA >+4

Characters will start out at level 1 with 500 gp to spend.
Hit Points - Max at each level.
Traits and Flaws: You are allowed to take 1 Trait and 1 Flaw if you choose to. It is not required.

[GilesTheCleric]

Are you playing World's Largest Dungeon? Will you have the ability to continue to purchase items and rest outside the dungeon? Also, how many points does each +1 LA cost?

[Alex1983]

Are you playing World's Largest Dungeon? Will you have the ability to continue to purchase items and rest outside the dungeon? Also, how many points does each +1 LA cost?

1)No

2)Yes, although I'm not sure about what items will be available to purchase. After each dungeon the group of four is teleported outside to an inn. Or if you die you are also teleported.

3)Not sure, is there a standard point buy system for LA cost? That's all the info I have for now, would have to ask the DM for specifics about that....

[Kelb_Panthera]

With neither the spell nor magic item compendiums and only the sources listed it's -doable- but it wouldn't be my first choice.

If you're a fifth man, you can run a classic "jack of all trades, master of none" setup to supplement the rest of the party's skills.

Do you have any idea what you want to do that bard particularly enables?

[sambouchah]

What race do you want to be?

My preferred dungeon Bard(as played out as it is); Human DFI Bard. You'll need Dragontouched(RoD) and Dragonfire Inspiration(also RoD IIRC?), grab a MW Horn(CA I believe) and a Short Sword/Rapier and go to town. Or you could go with a Lute which let's you play two songs at once, so Inspire Courage and DFI at the same time. At level 1 on your BSF is going to love those attack and damage bonuses.

At level one you'll grant the party +1 Attack(and Damage, I think. It's been a minute since I played 3.x), and +1d6 Fire Damage if you're using a Lute. Or +2d6 Fire Damage using only DFI and a Horn. Either way, you're doing work!

This of course is if you're going for buffing and combat focus. I hope I've helped a bit!

- Sam

[WalkingTheShade]

Is LA buyoff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) allowed?

After a cursory look there (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8284.0), the half-elf substitution at level 1 seems to be good. Also, Healing Hymn and Bardic Knack ACFs might be helpful.

[Alex1983]

Mechanics wise I didn't really have anything specific in mind, but I have an image of a viking/scandinavian myth theme inspired bard human (atleast in shape) that recites and sings poems of the Elder Edda ( a poetic narrative of norse mythology) to inspire courage and such bardic effects while in combat.

[sambouchah]

Mechanics wise I didn't really have anything specific in mind, but I have an image of a viking/scandinavian myth theme inspired bard human (atleast in shape) that recites and sings poems of the Elder Edda ( a poetic narrative of norse mythology) to inspire courage and such bardic effects while in combat.

I love it!

Isn't Savage Bard an ACF in UA? It may not be optimal, but it might fit the theme! My DFI suggestion doesn't seem to fit too well with the Norse vibe, I feel. But there's always refluffing if you would be allowed to. I'll do some thinking on it and post again!

EDIT: It seems Savage Bard replaces some skills and spells as well as making your bard illiterate. It does give you Reincarnate which I like. But I still am not sure the usefulness of the ACF as a whole.

[WalkingTheShade]

Mechanics wise I didn't really have anything specific in mind, but I have an image of a viking/scandinavian myth theme inspired bard human (atleast in shape) that recites and sings poems of the Elder Edda ( a poetic narrative of norse mythology) to inspire courage and such bardic effects while in combat.

+1 for Norse mythology.
Savage Bard/Barbarian seems a good choice to model a skald. Ask you DM if bardic music is an ability "that requires patience or concentration". If not, you can rage and inspire courage at the same time.
Song of the Heart is from an Eberron book, so it seems not to be available for you.
Inspirational Boost is a spell published in Complete Adventurer, and not taking it would be a huge mistake: the ability to give +2/+2 with Inspire courage at second level seems even stronger in a dungeon oriented game.

[Alex1983]

Also, how many points does each +1 LA cost?

Here is the chart for LA point equivalence:

+1 LA is 25 points
+2 LA is 18 points
+3 LA is 10 Points
+4 LA is 0 points

so LA one costs 7 points, LA 2 costs 7, LA 3 costs 8, and LA4 costs 10.

[WalkingTheShade]

Here is the chart for LA point equivalence:

+1 LA is 25 points
+2 LA is 18 points
+3 LA is 10 Points
+4 LA is 0 points

so LA one costs 7 points, LA 2 costs 7, LA 3 costs 8, and LA4 costs 10.

With 25 points, you could go Aasimar, and go with a caster oriented build.
STR 8
DEX 10
CON 13
INT 10
WIS 8+2 = 10
CHA 18+2 = 20
However, in a dungeon oriented game, the low STR might be a liability if it limits how much loot and equipment you can carry. You could also dump INT even more, to boost CON, if you don't mind your character being... limited.
Don't forget to grab Alter self as a spell, and have some background reason explaining how your character met dwarf ancestors or any other outsider necessary (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2811.0). Also, the Aasimar's spell-like ability can come handy in dark dungeons.

For a less cheesy and combat oriented build, I'd go human or half-elf, Bard at first level and a dip of Barbarian (or Fighter if rage+song is not possible) at second, with the following stats.
STR 15
DEX 10
CON 16
INT 10
WIS 8
CHA 16
(You may want to exchange STR and DEX if you want to finesse you weapon and have a better AC, but don't go Barbarian then.)

[Alex1983]

Hmm, I started out in the dungeon allready, I finally did a savage bard level 1 human with dragonfire inspiration build (had to spend two feats for that but I guess it's worth it...). Anyway, I seem pretty much useless to the group at this point. I have no healing abilities, no trapfinding abilities, very weak attacks, level 1 Bard's get only 2 pretty weak cantrips, and I can only use inspire courage 1/day...

[Kelb_Panthera]

Meh. Everyone is pretty useless at level 1. The game is at its highest level of lethality and nobody has any special abilities of note that they can use all day, save martial adepts. It'll get better.