3.5 Rainbow Servant questions

[Warrnan]

So I've been reading about this prestige. I've seen others say it is by RAW a 10/10 casting class, which I agree with. These same people are saying that you can spontaneously cast off of all the domains you gradually gain as well as the entire cleric list at RS 10.

My reading of page 20 "extra domains" section of complete divine leads me to believe you only gain domain spells spontaneously if you choose them as a spell known. Choosing a cleric spell instead of a sorceror spell is a theoretical step down in power....

I thought the entire point of going RS with a Sorc build was increasing your spells known. Am I missing something? To have to wait until level 15 to be able to choose sub par spells as spells known seems underpowered

[jiriku]

You're correct. The really potent combination most people mention is "rainbow warsnake," created by combining warmage with rainbow servant. This is highly effective because warmages automatically know all their spells. A sorcerer gets less juice out of this class.

I'd mention, though, that not all cleric spells are theoretically subpar. For example, there are a handful of available sorcerer spells that heal wounds, but the heal spell is better than any of them.

[Warrnan]

Ah ok. I agree with you cleric spells seem equal. I mainly mention this because clerics get armor and its traditionally held that wizard spells are better. However as time went on the splatbooks seemed to have leveled the playing field.

I think the cleric spells section is ambiguous enough to allow a sorceror all cleric spells at RS10 but the domains are pretty useless. Perhaps trade them away for domain feats and grab a level in sacred exorcist. This still beats mystic theurge by a long shot. 😃

Thanks for your help!

[Brova]

It's not great for a Sorcerer. Individual Cleric spells are generally not very good, a fact which is balanced out by the Cleric's access to all of them*. A Sorcerer who gets to pick off the Cleric list hasn't really gained much. Most of the good Cleric spells are niche, outclassed by Sorcerer/Wizard spells, or on the Sorcerer/Wizard list already. In fact, the reverse is generally a better deal as you get the benefits of Cleric-ing (armor, saves, domains, turning) and the benefits of being a Sorcerer (casting awesome spells).

The reason a Warmage/Rainbow Servant or a Beguiler/Rainbow Servant is good is because it gets to one up the Cleric. While the Cleric is forced to figure out which of his niche spells to prepare each day, the Rainbow Servant can just cast each as it becomes necessary.

*: Incidentally, this is why Favored Souls blow.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

It's a subpar class to take with a Sorcerer simply because of the spells known issue. An Ancestral Relic Runestaff (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?267805-Sorcerer-Handbook#4) can help, especially with the domain spells that could each only be used 1/day if you pick them as spells known, but it can only do so much. Rainbow Servant is a down one tier PrC (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5198.0) if taken on a Wizard or Sorcerer, but up two tiers if taken with a Warmage, Beguiler, or Dread Necromancer, since each of those classes would automatically gain the domain and Cleric spells as spells known.

[Necroticplague]

Also, the requirements are ridiculously easy to fast-track yourself into, so you can enter it at level 2 and get its capstone at 11.

[Warrnan]

Very good points. RS beginning at level 10 totally stomps cleric and FS casting. Warmage and beguiler are great idea. Thanks. The same could work for dread necromancers I bet. Lol works by raw.

How do you get in by level 2? Versatile spell caster and ?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Very good points. RS beginning at level 10 totally stomps cleric and FS casting. Warmage and beguiler are great idea. Thanks. The same could work for dread necromancers I bet. Lol works by raw.

How do you get in by level 2? Versatile spell caster and ?

Versatile Spellcaster and Sanctum Spell, or Versatile Spellcaster and Improved Sigil: Krau, or Versatile Spellcaster and Earth Sense + Heighten Spell + Earth Spell (but too many feats), etc.

[Warrnan]

I see. So strongheart halflings, humans and illumians go best with this build. Or flaws.

Thanks a bunch.

[Necroticplague]

Or just any metamagic +Eldritch Corruption. The prerequisite for Eldritch Corruption involves you gaining a bonus feat, so non-humans can pick it up at first level (get any metamagic feat with your normal, use your taint bonus feat for Eldritch Corruption).

[Brova]

Honestly though, it's not like it sucks to enter at 7th. You get your real ultimate power somewhat later, but you base class is pretty sweet and you get some domains. If you can either convince your DM to let you be an Inferno Servant and get different domains, or just UMD a wand of substitute domain, you get some very solid versatility from the 1st level of the class.

Also, just taking Versatile Spellcaster and getting in at 5th is fine. Plus, it avoids taking a bunch of worthless feats. Also, the difference engine.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Honestly though, it's not like it sucks to enter at 7th. You get your real ultimate power somewhat later, but you base class is pretty sweet and you get some domains. If you can either convince your DM to let you be an Inferno Servant and get different domains, or just UMD a wand of substitute domain, you get some very solid versatility from the 1st level of the class.

Also, just taking Versatile Spellcaster and getting in at 5th is fine. Plus, it avoids taking a bunch of worthless feats. Also, the difference engine.

But doing that means you miss out on 4 levels in another PrC. Like, say, Beguiler 1/Rainbow Servant 10/War Weaver 5/Spellguard 4 for pretty much the ultimate buffer.
Sure, that only counts if you're actually playing to 20, but the same applies to only reaching cleric spell access at 15. Earlier is better.

And honestly? A bunch of lame domains and mediocre SLA's really don't cut it. There's better PrC's than that, many of which give you their benefits at the first level or soon after.
Rainbow Servant is pretty much worthless without the capstone, so in a game that doesn't reach level 15 using it is pointless without early entry. Getting it at level 11 is much better and worth 2 feats imo.

[Ger. Bessa]

The domains aren't THAT lame. Sure the spells and domain granted powers are underwhelming compared to some cherry-picked ones (Hero, Destiny, Travel...), but they are not useless.

1. The good domain grants as a lv4 spell the prerequisite for the sacred exorcist prc, wich grants turn undead.

2. The domains grant enough abjurations to enter the initiate of the sevenfold veil prc with an exotic chassis that wouldn't allow it otherwise (the 3 fixed list casters ofc, but also duskblade and Nar Demonbinder iirc, and I must forget some). Note that divine abjurations wouldn't since the prerequisites are "arcane spells" and cleric spell access makes you cast divine spells.

3. With early entry the wings are nice. And they are pretty.

[Necroticplague]

Also a handy note: because the capstone adds spells not on an arcane list as divine spells, it allows you to qualify for Mystic Theurge using one class. So you could be a Dread necro1/Rainbow Servant 10/Mystic Theurge 9 who casts as a level 29 dread necromancer.

[Curmudgeon]

1. The good domain grants as a lv4 spell the prerequisite for the sacred exorcist prc, wich grants turn undead.
The Good domain (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericDomains.htm#goodDomain) has Holy Smite as its level 4 spell. Balance, Exorcism, and Zeal domains have Dismissal at level 4, which satisfies the Sacred Exorcist spell requirement.


Also a handy note: because the capstone adds spells not on an arcane list as divine spells, it allows you to qualify for Mystic Theurge using one class. So you could be a Dread necro1/Rainbow Servant 10/Mystic Theurge 9 who casts as a level 29 dread necromancer.
No, that doesn't work, because of specific language in Mystic Theurge:
Spells per Day

When a new mystic theurge level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class and any one divine spellcasting class he belonged to previously. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that he adds the level of mystic theurge to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class and divine spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly. You only add MT levels to the other class once.