Soulknife switch from Wis to Cha

[AoiEMT]

Hello all,

I have a fun and slightly whacky (which my group is excited about) character in mind and I am in love with the Soulknife but there is one hitch:

For roleplay reasons it feels odd playing the character I have in mind with a high Wisdom when a high Charisma would feel so much more thematic. I do know that stats aren't the character but it still feels a little off.

Would it be unbalanced to allow a Soulknife to be based of of Charisma, and gain the ability to use it instead of Wisdom for Soulknife abilities and psionic feats (including prereqs).

This is similar to the Zealot ability (PoW class in playtest). But they also get the ability to add Charisma to Will saves.

I feel it wouldn't be too big of a balance issue but I wanted more opinions before going to my GM.

Thank you in advance!

[Greenish]

Switching from Wis to Cha is a minor nerf, getting to use Cha to qualify for feats a minor buff that doesn't quite cancel the nerf, the end result from a balancing standpoint is close to ±0.

[AoiEMT]

Switching from Wis to Cha is a minor nerf, getting to use Cha to qualify for feats a minor buff that doesn't quite cancel the nerf, the end result from a balancing standpoint is close to ±0.

Would having it replace Wis to Will save put it over the top balance wise? I feel it would but I also agree that it feels a little like a self nerf to a class that is fairly well balanced.

[sovin_ndore]

Wisdom doesn't really do much other than contribute into Will Saves. I might allow a custom feat to apply your Charisma in addition to your Wisdom to will saves, but I don't think it is necessary. Charisma is great for skill-monkeying so you are already stacking beneficial with beneficial.

[Sacrieur]

Wis makes perfect sense from a thematic perspective.

[Greenish]

Would having it replace Wis to Will save put it over the top balance wise?Not really, but soul knife does already have a good Will save so it's hardly necessary.

If you feel you're not getting enough mileage from Cha, try picking some Cha-based skills with traits, archetypes (I think cutthroat at least has some), or just plain asking.

[EDIT]:
Wisdom doesn't really do much other than contribute into Will Saves. I might allow a custom feat to apply your Charisma in addition to your Wisdom to will saves, but I don't think it is necessary. Charisma is great for skill-monkeying so you are already stacking beneficial with beneficial.Wis also applies to Perception and Autohypnosis, both great skills on Soulknife list.


Wis makes perfect sense from a thematic perspective.The only thing about the theme of OP's character that we know is that OP considers Cha a better fit than Wis, so I'm not sure what you're basing that on.

[Vhaidara]

As a general rule, I let my players switch the mental stat of their class freely. Whether this means an Int based gunslinger, a Cha based Soulknife, a Wis based Oracle, whatever. If the class fits and the stat doesn't, change the stat.

I'm also of the opinion that one thing 4e did right was grouped saves: Fort uses the higher of Str/Con, Reflex uses the higher of Dex/Int, and Will uses the higher of Wis/Cha.

Will is such an odd save. In media, the characters most resistant to mind control are frequently the ones I would build with crazy high Cha, but awful Wis. They are just too stubbornly them to be controlled. Wisdom makes sense when dealing with something like an illusion, but not for enchantment.


Wis makes perfect sense from a thematic perspective.

I disagree completely with this statement.

[AoiEMT]

Will is such an odd save. In media, the characters most resistant to mind control are frequently the ones I would build with crazy high Cha, but awful Wis. They are just too stubbornly them to be controlled

This is part of my issue, I want it to be about force of personality that allows him to form the mind blade rather than concentration. Also the character will be a bit more of a trickster/fun loving character with not a ton of Wis for knowing when one of his crazy plans is the best idea.

That feels way more like low wis, high cha and middling int than anything.

[AoiEMT]

If you feel you're not getting enough mileage from Cha, try picking some Cha-based skills with traits, archetypes (I think cutthroat at least has some), or just plain asking

I definitely plan to have high bluff on this guy (or girl haven't decided yet) and I've been steering clear of the cutthroat because I don't want to step on our rogue's toes!

[Vhaidara]

The way I run it:
Choose a mental ability score that your class is dependent on, and then choose a replacement. Replace.

If your class already had features based on the replacement ability score, they are now based on the original score (this came up with Arcanist, if you want Cha based casting you end up with Int based exploits)

Choose up to 3 class skills based on the original stat that are not Craft, Profession, or Perform. Lose these as class skills

Choose an equal number of skills based on the new stat (Craft, Profession, and Perform are 1 skill for this). These become class skills.


This lets my players tailor the class that almost fits their character to fit their character exactly.

[AoiEMT]

The way I run it:
Choose a mental ability score that your class is dependent on, and then choose a replacement. Replace.

If your class already had features based on the replacement ability score, they are now based on the original score (this came up with Arcanist, if you want Cha based casting you end up with Int based exploits)

Choose up to 3 class skills based on the original stat that are not Craft, Profession, or Perform. Lose these as class skills

Choose an equal number of skills based on the new stat (Craft, Profession, and Perform are 1 skill for this). These become class skills.


This lets my players tailor the class that almost fits their character to fit their character exactly.

That seems like a pretty fair system. Honestly I can't afford to give up any of the class skills for the soulknife and there are only two that qualify via Wisdom.


Either way it feels like the consensus is that Wis swap for Cha is not a huge deal.

Now the real question is what does a Cha formed mind blade look like...

[Greenish]

Here's (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dVQA-uI740Hh8vq-zsnbHV6UwJg-4QKlpmkxBEmCdhA/edit?pli=1) a guide to traits. There are several that can be used to grant new class skills, and remember, not having a skill as a class skill just means you won't get the +3 bonus in it (unless/until you multiclass).

[Vhaidara]

Does it have to look any different? Again, fluff is mutable. I have an int based Soulknife who cycles an arsenal of legendary weapons