Lower Level Mage (Below level 7 Most of the Campaign)

[somehownotsingl]

I really want to try an INT-based melee caster for our campaign. EK would be the obvious choice ... but it doesn't seem to shine in any way as a caster until level 7. We'll spend most, if not all, of our campaign below that. Without war magic or 2nd level spells, the EK is just a fighter with some utility spells. I want my casting to pack some punch!

So, I'm thinking about a fighter/wizard multiclass. To avoid too much MAD, I'll probably make him a DEX-based fighter. A few things I can't decide:

1) Race. High-Elf gets some nice class abilities, all the right stat boosts, plus a free cantrip. Human variant gets that precious, precious feat.

2) How many levels of fighter to take. Would you do Fighter 1/Wizard X, or Fighter 2/Wizard X? Fighter 5/Wizard X would be a natural choice, but again, I don't think the campaign is going to last that long, and I don't want to have to wait that long to have some fun spells worth casting.

3) Fighting Style: Duelist vs Defenisve? He'll probably walk around with a rapier, so the +2 dmg is nice. Of course, what character wouldn't love a +1 to AC, especially with those squishy wizard HP die?

4) IF I choose human variant, what feat? Tough would seem to make sense for the extra HP. Defensive duelist isn't bad, either.

Anyway, besides being an INT-based (and I do want INT based for several flavor reasons) melee caster who packs a decent punch either through sword or spell, I'm pretty open to suggestions. Obviously gishes will fall behind pure classes in damage through either method, but whether I swing or cast, I want the enemy to know he's been hit!

Feel free to talk me into EK being fun as a melee caster before level 7, too, if you like :-)

[Madfellow]

1) Race. High-Elf gets some nice class abilities, all the right stat boosts, plus a free cantrip. Human variant gets that precious, precious feat.

2) How many levels of fighter to take. Would you do Fighter 1/Wizard X, or Fighter 2/Wizard X? Fighter 5/Wizard X would be a natural choice, but again, I don't think the campaign is going to last that long, and I don't want to have to wait that long to have some fun spells worth casting.

3) Fighting Style: Duelist vs Defenisve? He'll probably walk around with a rapier, so the +2 dmg is nice. Of course, what character wouldn't love a +1 to AC, especially with those squishy wizard HP die?

4) IF I choose human variant, what feat? Tough would seem to make sense for the extra HP. Defensive duelist isn't bad, either.

Anyway, besides being an INT-based (and I do want INT based for several flavor reasons) melee caster who packs a decent punch either through sword or spell, I'm pretty open to suggestions. Obviously gishes will fall behind pure classes in damage through either method, but whether I swing or cast, I want the enemy to know he's been hit!


1) Both are good, but you should also consider mountain dwarf as an alternative. It gets you a few martial weapon proficiencies, armor, and extra hit points. Mountain dwarf wizard is a perfectly viable single-class gish option.

2) If you do go fighter though, most people will recommend 2 levels, because Action Surge is really that good.

3) Speaking only from personal preference, I'd go duelist; 2 extra damage is a little more flashy than 1 extra AC.

4) Yeah tough is really good, especially for a gish.

[Tanarii]

Couple of Melee caster ideas I've played around with. Both are designed with a low casting stat. The warlock on mobility. The Bard on divinations, including rituals for out of combat flexibility, he's kind of a scout basically. Either could have the ability scores and spells played around with for more direct attacking spells.

IMO your best bet for GISH at low levels isn't Multiclassing, it's to use the caster classes with built in GISH capability. That's mainly warlock (for blaster/combat utility) or Bard (for support/OoC). The biggest problem is weakness at level 1-2 in direct combat, until you get some decent armor going.


Mountain Dwarf Warlock Criminal

Level 1:
Str 16 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 8 Cha 14
Saves Int & Wis, HD d8
Features: Speed 25 ft, Darkvision, Dwarven Resilience, Dwarven Combat Training, Tool Proficiency, Stonecutting, Otherworldly Patron (The Fiend), Dark One's Blessing, Pact Magic, Military Rank
Weapons: Simple, Warhammer, Battleaxe
Armor: Light, Medium
Proficiencies: Deception, Stealth, Investigation, Intimidation
Tools: Smith's tools, Card set, Thieves' tools
Languages: Dwarvish, Common
Cantrips: Minor Illusion, Blade Ward
Spells Known: Hex, Armor of Agathys
Starting Equipment: Light Crossbow, 20 bolts, Component Pouch, Dungeoneer's Pack, Leather Armor, Spear, 2 Daggers, Crowbar, Dark Common Clothes with Hood, Blet Pouch 15 gp

Level 2:
Feature: Eldritch Invocation
Invocations: Armor of Shadows, Fiendish Vigor
Spells Known: Expeditious Retreat

Level 3:
Feature: Pact Boon (Pact of the Blade)
Invocations: (Armor of Shadows -->) Devil's Sight
Spells Known: (Expeditious Retreat -->) Misty Step, Darkness

Level 4:
ASI: Str +2 --> 18
Cantrip: True Strike
Spells Known: Invisibility

Level 5:
Invocation: Thirsting Blade
Spells Known: Fly

Level 6:
Feature: Dark One's Own Luck
Spells Known: Tongues

Level 7:
Invocations: One With Shadows
Spells Known: (Misty Step -->) Dimension Door, Fire Shield

Dragonborn Bard Soldier

Level 1:
Str 17 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 8 Cha 11
Saves Dex & Cha, HD d8
Features: Draconic Ancestry (Silver), Breath Weapon, Damage Resistance, Spellcasting, Bardic Inspiration (d6), Military Rank
Weapons: Simple, Hand Crossbows, Longswords, Rapiers, Shortsword
Armor: Light
Proficiencies: Athletics, Intimidation, Stealth, Perception, Investigation
Tools: Flute, Drums, Pan Pipes, Card set, Vehicle (land)
Languages: Draconic, Common
Cantrips: Light, Blade Ward
Spells Known: Healing Word, Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic, Speak with Animals
Starting Equipment: Longsword, Diplomat's Pack, Pan Pipes, Leather Armor, Dagger, Insignia of Rank, Trophy from Fallen Enemy, Card set, Common Clothes, Belt Pouch, 10 gp

Level 2
Features: Jack of All Trades, Song of Rest (d6)
Spells Known: Identify

Level 3:
Features: Bard College (College of Valor), Bonus Proficiencies, Combat Inspiration, Expertise
Weapons: Martial
Armor: Medium, Shields
Expertise: Investigation, Perception
Spells Known: Locate Object

Level 4:
ASI: Str +1 --> 18, Cha +1 --> 12
Cantrip: True Strike
Spells Known: Locate Animals or Plants

Level 5:
Features: Bardic Inspiration (d8), Font of Inspiration
Spells Known: Clairvoyance

Level 6:
Features: Countercharm, Extra Attack
Spells Known: Tongues

Level 7:
Spells Known: Locate Creature

[Lord Il Palazzo]

1) Both are good, but you should also consider mountain dwarf as an alternative. It gets you a few martial weapon proficiencies, armor, and extra hit points. Mountain dwarf wizard is a perfectly viable single-class gish option.I came in here to suggest this. You would end up with intelligence a little below most wizards since the race doesn't give it a bump, but you'd have excellent strength and constitution and could easily focus on spells that don't require much intelligence including most self-buffing to improve your fighter-performance and wizards' ritual casting would help make up for having one fewer spell prepared by giving you several spells that are basically always prepared.

1) Race. High-Elf gets some nice class abilities, all the right stat boosts, plus a free cantrip. Human variant gets that precious, precious feat.Both seem like completely valid options if you don't want to do the dwarf. For something a little more unusual, Gnomes get +2 intelligence and either +1 dex or +1 constitution, both of which could be handy for a melee type, plus they have advantage on intelligence, wisdom and charisma saves against magic and forest gnomes get an extra cantrip. (Yeah, it's always minor illusion, but that is a good one.)

2) How many levels of fighter to take. Would you do Fighter 1/Wizard X, or Fighter 2/Wizard X? Fighter 5/Wizard X would be a natural choice, but again, I don't think the campaign is going to last that long, and I don't want to have to wait that long to have some fun spells worth casting.I'd lean toward 1. It gets you your proficiencies and fighting style and lets you get on with being a melee caster, rather than a melee guy who casts. Action surge is nice, but you do have to weigh it against a whole level of casting. Maybe you could take start with 1 level and take fighter 2 somewhere down the road. I definitely wouldn't go as far as Fighter 5, you would lose a lot of spellcasting to get it and you can cast Haste on yourself if you really want that extra attack.

3) Fighting Style: Duelist vs Defenisve? He'll probably walk around with a rapier, so the +2 dmg is nice. Of course, what character wouldn't love a +1 to AC, especially with those squishy wizard HP die?I'd go duelist. As a wizard, you can always keep a Shield spell in your back pocket if you need a bump to AC and use Abjurer to get some extra HP too help out the defensive situation.


4) IF I choose human variant, what feat? Tough would seem to make sense for the extra HP. Defensive duelist isn't bad, either.Tough is good if you end up with a lot of Wizard levels, though I'd lean more toward War Caster. Being in melee will mean a lot of chances to fail concentration checks and lose your buffs. Advantage on them (plus proficiency, if you take your first level in Fighter) will help that a lot. Resilient (Constituiton) could serve a similar role if you take a wizard level first and could bump up an odd constitution score too.

[Kane0]

Abjurer has you covered. Don't take any fighter, you want fireballs and haste ASAP.

Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Halfling and Human are all good options.

Warcaster, Tough and Resilient (Con) are all solid feat options.

If you absolutely, positively must take fighter then start with it at level 1 for Con save proficiency, and go no higher than 2. Action surge is great and all, but you will be cutting deeply into your casting each level you skip. I'd recommend Mariner fighting style because its fun to be able to move around more, and gives you the +1 AC that defense gives you too. AC always works, dueling only gives that +2 to damage when you are swinging a weapon and not casting a spell.

[DanyBallon]

If you go the fighter route, either multiclass or Eldritch Knight, high elf give you a free cantrip that you can use to blast at early level, pretty useful if you go Str-Int fighter for efficient ranged attack, or variant human with magic initiate, you get ven more spell early.

[Joe the Rat]

Seeing this done somewhat poorly in my group, some lessons learned:


Fighter first makes you tougher, gives CON save, opens up heavy armor options (dump dex!)
Abjurer helps you survive, Evoker reduces collateral damage, Diviner can guarantee success, or failure, depending on what you roll
If you want big spellcasting ASAP, fighter 1 is enough. Fighter 3 (EK) is tempting (more cantrips, always ready spells, that third level counts as a level of spellcaster for MC slot counting), but this pushes your 2nd level slots back to 5th level, and 2nd level spells to 6th. Better to come back to EK after 4 or so. Otherwise you cast like an overcaffienated warlock.
High Elf is nice, particularly if you are starting Fighter and want some magic out the gate. Or take Magic Initiate as an alt human. For your 1st spell, pick something you'd always want available and works well even with a 1st level casting. Mage Armor would be an interesting choice on a Dexy build.
High Dex + Sword & Board + Warcaster: Good AC, can cast with your hands full. VHuman and 1st level as Wizard.
Since 2nd attack is not on the table, other rapier-granting classes could provide fun options. Rogue and Ranger are dexable fits, Barbarian would be interesting (no spells left? rage for the damage resistance) but is MAD as hell. One of the marital weapon Clerics, or Bard would require another Mental 13, but would give you a pointy metal stick and full spellcasting.

[somehownotsingl]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I decided to go with a DEX-based duelist Fighter 2/Wizard X, Variant Human (Magic Initiate). I used the 1st level spell from Magic Initiate to take mage armor. So now I just always have that up (I know it's only 8 hours, but that usually covers the fighting part of our game "day;" I bought studded armor to don in a pinch, just in case).

The hardest part was whether or not to take a second level of fighter. Still not sure I made the right decision; after all, I delayed not just spell casting, but also ASI. Still action surge was important to me. We have martial characters already in the party. We have casters already. I wanted to be the versatility guy (five cantrips now! how cool!); I wanted it to hurt, whether I swung a rapier or cast a spell -- even if neither sword nor spell would hurt as much as when other party members attacked.

So, anyway, thanks again. Currently he's a Fighter 2/Wizard 1, and I am having so much more fun than I did as a level 3 fighter (EK).

[Madfellow]

So, anyway, thanks again. Currently he's a Fighter 2/Wizard 1, and I am having so much more fun than I did as a level 3 fighter (EK).

Glad to hear it worked out. :smallsmile: