Ronnoc watches an anime

[Ronnoc]

What happens when you dump a physics grad student with a deep seated love for internal consistency, character development and generally picking at his media of the month like a swarm of piranhas in dry season into a relatively unexplored genre? Well we're about to find out. Anime is one of those things that I keep meaning to give an honest try but have never quite gotten around to. A let's watch seemed like a good way to rectify that. Over the next two days I'll take recomendations on what to watch and settle on whatever gets the most votes from the playground.
Will there be tears? Wrath? The laughter of a mad DM who just realized a new way to torture his weekly gaming group? Well honestly that depends on what you have me watch.

Some caveats and addendums:

Primus, the series must be available via Netflix, Hulu, or if we have a clear winner that isn't on those services via some streaming service like google play or Amazon. I'd prefer not to have to pay money for this but I will not be pirating.

Secondus, I will aim to have a review post up roughly every three days. That said I am in grad school and if my advisor decides that my time would be better spent dangling from a guide field magnet fidding with a collimator then that's what I will be doing.

Tertius, There is no third condition; I just like organizing things into sets of three.

[Kitten Champion]

How long are you looking to do it for? Series can have considerably different lengths. Also, what genre(s) are you interested in?

[Hiro Protagonest]

...Well, there was already a Let's Watch of Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood (not sure if it's finished, actually. I think it got very close to the end), so not sure if you should do that. Also, it's kinda long for a Let's Watch. But I totally recommend watching that sometime. You have to use both Netflix and Hulu for that, because Hulu's somehow retained rights to the last dozen episodes.

Hrm... Gurren Lagann. Let's go with that.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I kinda want to see what happens when a physics grad student runs into Steins;Gate. :smallbiggrin:

[TheThan]

First off… a preamble.
Anime is not a genre, it’s a medium. So there are a great amount of different genres in that medium. You can find everything from romantic comedies, science fiction, fantasy, slapstick comedy, horror, porn (known as hentai), children’s shows and everything in between. Secondly, just like everything else in any medium there’s a whole lot of bad along with the good. While your mileage always varies, there’s still a healthy dose of objectivity when determining whether something is good or not (basic storytelling elements being a big one folks).

Knowing what your tastes are will help the selection process along and steer you away from anime that fall into a genre you don’t like. But not knowing anything about Ronnoc, I’m going to give him my standard issue list of recommended anime.


Cowboy bebop (science fiction with a noir lean)
Trigun (western/science fiction)
Avatar the last Airbender (fantasy, yeah I know people, roll with it)
Dragon Ball Z (action/comedy martial arts)
Outlaw star (science fiction, space opera)
Slayers (fantasy)
Record of Lodoss War (Fantasy)
Fist of the north star (post apocalyptic martial arts action)
Samurai champloo (historical fiction/adventure with a funk lean)
Vision of Escaflone (fantasy)
Macross (science fiction, real robots/space opera)
Gundam Wing (science fiction, real robots/space opera)
Gundam 08th MS team (real robots/military sci-fi)


I highly recommend you watch Cowboy Bebop first, it has the most appeal to western audiences and is a excellent introduction to the medium. It shouldn't be too hard to find on streaming sites. fist of the north star is definitely the most graphic of those I've listed, it's also the oldest having been made back in the 80s and it's age shows, but dang, that show's got some serious balls. Avatar, is technically not anime, as it was produced by Americans and animated in south korea; as opposed to being a Japanese import but it's got the same style and general feel of a high quality anime so I'm listing it.

[Eldan]

I kinda want to see what happens when a physics grad student runs into Steins;Gate. :smallbiggrin:

That is an excellent idea.

[Grinner]

I kinda want to see what happens when a physics grad student runs into Steins;Gate. :smallbiggrin:

Thirding this.

[Flickerdart]

the series must be available via Netflix, Hulu, or if we have a clear winner that isn't on those services via some streaming service like google play or Amazon. I'd prefer not to have to pay money for this but I will not be pirating.
CrunchyRoll is going to be your best bet for this - it's 100% legal and there is a free account option. From what I recall, the limits on a free account are max 480p resolution, ads during the episodes (which can be defeated by AdBlock) and having episodes available 1 week later than paying members get them (which doesn't matter since you'll probably watch a completed series).

I have a couple of recommendations, depending on the genre you like:

Slice of life: This might be the most quintessential "anime" genre. Kuragehime (Jellyfish Princess), Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei, and arguably Durarara! are good examples of this one.
Action: If you like explosions, punches, and punching explosions, anime is also great for that. You can't go wrong with Gurren Lagann, Kill la Kill, or JoJo's Bizarre Adventure.
Feels: If you like your emotions crushed into a tiny ball and then bounced around, go for Madoka or Angel Beats.

[Lethologica]

One important metric that hasn't been mentioned yet is tolerance for fanservice.

I'm gonna throw in a few extra recommendations. All are 12-13 episodes except for Spice and Wolf, which is 25.

Kino's Journey: Cultural speculative fiction expressed as the meditative travelogue of a gunslinging girl and her talking motorcycle as they go from town to town. "The world is not beautiful; therefore, it is."
Baccano: A flamboyant, madcap action romp--gangs and immortals clash in Prohibition-era New York. "Even though we are going to shatter thousands of lives, wearing white is gonna make the blood look so pretty."
Haibane Renmei: They're not quite angels, and this is not quite heaven. Thoughtfully blends slice-of-life and emotional drama in a slightly supernatural tale of self-discovery. "To recognize one's own sin is to have no sin. So, are you a sinner?" (Honestly, this is a pretty weak summary, and if someone else can help describe the show, I'd appreciate it.)
Spice and Wolf: Medieval-era country romance between a merchant and a wolf god, that heavily plays up the 'merchant' aspect. "When a person lies, what is important is not the lie itself. No, it is their reason. Their why."
Ping Pong The Animation: Rounding out the list is the sole sports anime in the thread so far. A visually compelling character study and an inspiration to anyone who participates in competitions. "Devoting your life to table tennis is nonsense. It’s beyond comprehension."

[MLai]

I vote against Stein;s Gate for an anime newbie. Reasons:

1. The women look like little girls to someone who has never seen anime. That's just one of many Jpnese art styles. The women are also depicted as sexy. This may turn off an anime novice.
2. The characterizations can get quite exaggerated, as if the characters are play-acting rather than behaving like normal ppl. That's just one of many Jpnese story styles. This may turn off an anime novice.
3. I personally consider this anime to be decent, but not a memorable classic like certain other series. But it depends on the viewer's tastes.

If the viewer doesn't mind adult women who look like young teenagers, or ppl behaving in hyperbolic ways, then it's an okay choice.

[Berserk Mecha]

I know that it's been said but I feel that I need to repeat this. Anime is not a genre. I would barely even call it a medium. There is nothing that is technically impossible in anime that cannot be done in cartoons from other countries. That said, anime has a lot of conventions and tropes that rarely show up in western cartoons and that is what makes it unique in a lot of people's eyes.

When you hear people talk about anime, what they usually mean are Japanese cartoons that are aimed at people ranging from teenagers to people in their twenties. It is rare to see action-based cartoons aimed at teenagers and adults in western media. Doubly so if the show is serialized. And a lot of this stuff is serialized.

It would help to know what you like in other media. Action? Romance? Comedy? Tragedy? Anime has it all.

Oh, and be on the lookout for tonal inconstancy. This can really kill the mood in a show if you don't have the tolerance for it. Code Geass is a major offender in this department and switches between high school shenanigans and pretty serious political drama from episode to episodes.

Here's a few recommendations based on how much of an investment the show requires.

The casual stuff:

Hayate the Combat Butler: Screwball comedy. Fairly inoffensive. I forget how many episodes there are. Over a hundred, I think. Don't worry if that feels intimidating. The show is fairly episodic.

Samurai Champloo: Two samurai lose a bet to a girl so they have to be her bodyguards as they search for her father. Pretty bloody and vulgar, but good fun, if somewhat forgettable. 26 episodes. Also very episodic.

Cowboy Beebop: A group of bounty hunters tool around the solar system in their space ship trying to make a fast buck. Has a mixture of humorous and serious moments. 26 episodes.

The medium stuff:

Gundam, 08th MS Team: One of the better entries in the much-lauded Gundam franchise. Has giant robots fighting each other in the jungle. 12 episodes.

Fate/Zero: Action show in which seven mages are pitted against each other in a battle royal. Oh, and each mage gets to summon a person from mythology/history/folklore to help them. It's worth it to see Alexander the Great tool around the city while dragging his little buddy along. 26 episodes.

Samurai 7: Kurosawa's classic film transported into a sci-fi / fantasy setting. Has some kick-ass fight scenes and some lovable characters. 26 episodes.

Gargantia on the Verduous Planet: A child soldier from space and his robot crash on the long lost planet Earth. The boy learns to adapt to life among the native earthlings. A sweet show with a heartwarming ending. 13 episodes.

Gankutsuou, The Count of Monte Cristo: The Count of Monte Cristo set in the future! Honestly, this show is a lot better than it has any right to be. Has a very artsy visual style that is worth checking out. 26 episodes.

The heavy stuff:

Puella Magi Madoka Magica: A subversion of the magic girls fight monsters genre. Pretty darn grim but oh so fulfilling at the end. I don't know how much someone can get out of this one if you are unfamiliar with the genre. It requires some knowledge of the tropes in magical girl shows to know what is being deconstructed and subverted. Still worth a look. 12 episodes.

Neon Genesis Evangelion: A deconstruction of the 'teenagers pilot giant robots to fight space aliens' genre. This show has a more readily understandable status quo than the above and is more accessible. It starts out fairly standard in the first half but gets pretty heavy in the second half. A lot of the show deals with depression and can be taxing for people who have never dealt with depression before. Opinions on this one vary wildly. 26 episodes.

Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex. A fairly adult cartoon about a team of police officers set in the future. (They're more like a cross between a SWAT team and detectives, really.) Has action and a hot acrobatic cyborg chick busting crooks. 52 episodes.

Gundam 0080 War in the Pocket. This is one of the more poignant entries in the Gundam series. Less emphasis on the robots and more focus on the characters. Only six episodes long, so it's not that big of a commitment, but you will remember it.

All of these shows except the Gundam ones and Evangelion can be found on Hulu.

[Kitten Champion]

I wouldn't recommend Hayate no Gotoku! to someone so unfamiliar with anime. A lot of the humour is casually referencing anime and Japanese media in general, a lot of it would go over your head if you don't have at least a passing familiarity with the more staple works.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

If the viewer doesn't mind adult women who look like young teenagers, or ppl behaving in hyperbolic ways, then it's an okay choice.
I'm...actually pretty sure that the oldest one is 17, and the rest are younger than that. All the characters are pre-college, IIRC.

[Lethologica]

I'm...actually pretty sure that the oldest one is 17, and the rest are younger than that. All the characters are pre-college, IIRC.
Kurisu, Suzuha, and Okabe are 18, and Itaru is 19. Not much difference.

But really, it's all of a piece with that 'tolerance of fanservice' thing I mentioned earlier. Steins;Gate is not bad on that score, but it's not zero, either.

[TheThan]

I know that it's been said but I feel that I need to repeat this. Anime is not a genre. I would barely even call it a medium. There is nothing that is technically impossible in anime that cannot be done in cartoons from other countries. That said, anime has a lot of conventions and tropes that rarely show up in western cartoons and that is what makes it unique in a lot of people's eyes.

I actually lump western animation in with anime, it’s all animation after all. “Anime” is great shorthand for “highly stylized animation from Japan” though. However Anime is more fully realized as its own medium than most western animation. With shows that cross the length and berth of fiction genre.

Western animation primarily focuses on children. Disney for instance, created straight up master works before they shut down their traditional animation department (a tragedy in my opinion) but still those masterworks were geared towards children. Heck even animation that wasn’t geared for children like Loony Tunes/Merry Melodies has been shown on Saturday morning cartoon slots for years; and is generally considered kid’s stuff. It’s a shift in paradigm, bugs bunny dressing up as a woman and kissing Elmer Fudd was meant to be comedy for adults back in the 40s-60s, by the 80s it was considered tame kids stuff. it’s not that the west can’t produce animation for adults (the Simpsons, Family guy, South park en/alt are all adult shows; its just that most people in the west, even today, consider animation only for kids. (yes I know that opinion is changing but still, it exists). Heck back in the 90s, hentai (animated porn basically) was placed on the same shelf with Saturday morning anime simply because the people stocking the shelves just assumed it was for kids because it was a cartoon.

Anyway I try to ease people into the medium by starting them out on stuff that’s easy to digest, and makes a modicum of sense. So I try to avoid shows that are heavy, too zany, too steeped in Japanese culture or history. To use a poor analogy, Ronnoc can dive into the deep end after he gets he learns to swim. Which is why I highly recommend Cowboy bebop, it’s one of the most western anime I’ve come across so it’s easy for a westerner to digest and understand; it’s also a top shelf anime in its own right.

Lets see, other things to know… ahh

Demographics. Like a lot of other programming, Anime is usually aimed at a target audience. You will often see terms describing certain anime, these are shorthand for the demographic that a particular anime is aimed at. Keep in mind this is shorthand and can vary widely in style and appeal.

Yaoi- male homosexual
Yuri- female homoxesual
Ecchi- sexual overtones sans intercourse
Kodomo- children’s programming
Shojo - for girls
Shounen -for boys
Seinen – teenager/young adult.

I’m probably missing a few but meh wikipedia’s your friend. Also keep in mind that many of these shows don’t treat children the same way, so something like a shounen anime can be more complex than say a typical Saturday morning cartoon here in the west. The benefit is that an adult can watch a shounen show for instance, without feeling like a tool for watching something meant for kids. Andi I just realized this post turned out significantly longer than intended so I'll call it quits for now.

[Eldan]

I vote against Stein;s Gate for an anime newbie. Reasons:

1. The women look like little girls to someone who has never seen anime. That's just one of many Jpnese art styles. The women are also depicted as sexy. This may turn off an anime novice.
2. The characterizations can get quite exaggerated, as if the characters are play-acting rather than behaving like normal ppl. That's just one of many Jpnese story styles. This may turn off an anime novice.
3. I personally consider this anime to be decent, but not a memorable classic like certain other series. But it depends on the viewer's tastes.

If the viewer doesn't mind adult women who look like young teenagers, or ppl behaving in hyperbolic ways, then it's an okay choice.


Bah. Throw them in the deep end. Swim or drown. By that metric, Stein's Gate isn't even that weird.

[Sallera]

I've always considered Mushishi (a wandering doctor dealing with problems related to various supernatural creatures/"essences of life", the titular mushi) to be pretty much the ideal starting point for someone completely unfamiliar with anime. It's almost completely episodic, with only one or two reoccurring characters outside the main character. The art, especially the backgrounds, is amazing, and really showcases the medium; it's also neatly complemented by very fitting, rather low-key music, simple without being simplistic.

There's a lot of thoughtfulness and feeling put into each story, and it really shows in the care taken with the characters. The mushi are sometimes in the foreground and sometimes the background, but there's almost always a strongly human element to every story, and the author has a fairly realistic bent despite the low-fantasy setting - the endings vary from happy to bittersweet to outright downers, and not every problem has a solution, sometimes just closure.

And the show even avoids the usual trap of longer-running series - the second season is at least as good as the first, and you'd be hard-pressed to tell them apart despite the ten-year gap in production. Even if you don't pick it for the LW, I'd highly recommend checking out at least a few episodes.

[Eldariel]

Lots of these suggestions are a little heavy on the action side of things. Some options to counterbalance that - not that these don't contain any action but it's certainly not the primary focus (I'll have to include the cave-at that I'm not up-to-date on what's available on Netflix, Hulu, Crunchyroll or company, so you'll have to check for yourself):

Nodame Cantabile (のだめカンタービレ): A beautiful show centered around a few students of classical music. A very character-driven show though the music itself also carries a central role, with full pieces being given presentations they deserve, and analysed in-depth. No prior knowledge on the subject really necessary, though it's of course likely to resonate more with people carrying a prior interest. 3 series with 24, 13 and 13 episodes respectively, jousei. The first season works as an excellent standalone too though, and the OVAs aren't necessary (if illuminating).
Clannad (クラナド): A heartwrenching, emotional slice-of-life rollercoaster of essentially love, friendship and growing up with a dose of fantasy. The show handles the pain and the beauty of life in an exquisite manner, shounen/seinen.
Princess Tutu (プリンセスチュチュ): A ballet-themed bizarrely enthralling fairy tale-like story of a town between reality and tale, and the specter of a playwright. Ballet plays the role of resolution and value in most things while the tales themselves are modeled after classical tales and have really nothing to do with ballet in their natural state. A truly unique experience, but one I'd say is worthwhile. 26 episodes, nominally shounen.
Haruhi Suzumiya (涼宮ハルヒ): A scifi/fantasy story that's kinda all over the map. Without spoiling too much, it's a "high school" story about an omnipotent being who's not aware of being omnipotent, and the ramifications there-of. Add to that some romance, and a world of crazy adventures and you're about set. The newer release is 28 episodes plus a movie, though you can basically skip 7 of the episodes (known as the "Endless Eight" - watch the first one, skip the remaining 7 unless you specifically want to sit it through), nominally shounen.
Fruits Basket (フルーツバスケット): Another bizarre fantasy story and again, a show that starts off as apparently pure comedy but turns serious later. An orphaned girl is adopted into a household of a family carrying a strange curse, where hugging people of the opposite gender turns them into animals. 26 episodes, shoujo.
Your Lie in April (四月は君の嘘): A story of a piano virtuoso traumatized by the death of his mother finding himself unable to play. Then he runs into a girl in April under a blossoming cherry tree and finds his life beginning to change... Slice-of-life, musical theme. 22 episodes + OVA, shounen.
Daily Lives of High School Boys (男子高校生の日常): A silly slice-of-life comedy about...well, exactly what it says on the tin. 12 episodes + a bunch of specials.


Then a certainly action anime but one I feel obliged to mention anyways since it's omitted so illegally often: Kara no Kyoukai: The Garden of Sinners (空の境界). A very noir-spirited urban fantasy detective/action series of movies considering some very intriguing topics and presenting an absolutely enthralling world with an assortment of intriguing characters, complete with breathtaking animation (operating on the same rules as the world explored in Fate/Zero and Fate/Stay Night: Unlimited Blade Works, both of which are worth a watch on their own right).

[MLai]

Bah. Throw them in the deep end. Swim or drown. By that metric, Stein's Gate isn't even that weird.
Deep end?

Violence Jack.

[GloatingSwine]

Violence Jack is only the deep* end if you read the manga.

Which you have read the Devilman manga to really understand as well.


* Let's not discuss what it's deep with, 1980s OVAs were a special breed, for given values of special.

[Aotrs Commander]

Deep end?

Violence Jack.

NO.

Bad MLai!

Don't make me fetch a rolled up newspaper, dude...!



(For anyone who is unfamiliar with Violence Jack: Good. Keep it that way. To be completely and totally uncharacteristically serious for a rare occasion: it is REALLY not worth your time. Seriously. Let us just say it occupies the same portion of the sewer as A Serbian Flim without even the latter's pretensions of artisitry.)



But it does illustrate why with anime, it's a very good idea to have some sort of idea of what it is you're about to watch, given the range of potential subject material; a luxury those of us whose limited exposure to anime via TV in the mid-late-nineties (in the UK when it was first A Thing) did not have, and no-one should accidently end up watching something like Legend of the Overfiend by mistake... *eyeglow twitch* *eyeglow twitch* *shudder*

[Cespenar]

I've opened several people with light to serious prejudices towards anime... to anime, and it all started with three simple steps. Fullmetal Alchemist, Death Note, and Trigun. Just putting that out there.

I'd also second suggestions like Cowboy Bebop, Avatar, etc. but there are a quite few suspect ones here as well.

Some rules of thumb that should have been obvious: as little fanservice as possible, no metagenre stuff, no deconstructions, etc.

Personally I'd rank TheThan's and Lethologica's suggestions the more sensible, along with MLai's counterargument against Steins;Gate.

[TheThan]

Deep end?

Violence Jack.
You evil, evil person



But it does illustrate why with anime, it's a very good idea to have some sort of idea of what it is you're about to watch, given the range of potential subject material; a luxury those of us whose limited exposure to anime via TV in the mid-late-nineties (in the UK when it was first A Thing) did not have, and no-one should accidently end up watching something like Legend of the Overfiend by mistake... *eyeglow twitch* *eyeglow twitch* *shudder*

Yeah back in the day, we didn’t have the internet to research what we were buying/watching. So we just had to take a shot in the dark and hope we get lucky with something decent. T’was interesting times. I think we were alot more forgiving about the sort of crap we watched, heck I know I was. and since you HAD to buy them or catch them on TV, you had a vested interest in continuing to watch a series, even one that was crap.

[GloatingSwine]

To be fair, '80s hentai like Urotsukidoji is pretty tame by modern standards.

Also, the UK market was a bit special in the '90s, Manga UK would intentionally shoot for 15 or 18 ratings in order to appear super edgy. So they'd just crowbar in extra swearing and intentionally choose porn to translate because they could cut a few seconds and sneak just in under the R18 rating.

[Ravian]

I've opened several people with light to serious prejudices towards anime... to anime, and it all started with three simple steps. Fullmetal Alchemist, Death Note, and Trigun. Just putting that out there.


I'd also recommend these three. Fullmetal Alchemist was one of the first mature (as in not specifically made for kids) anime I watched and its still one of my favorites (Though I do rate Brotherhood a little higher than the original)

Death Note is pretty thrilling, even if it lags a bit near the end.

Trigun is a classic and has more layers than an onion. It also has a very Western attitude (Not referring to the genre specifically, more that it has a lot of similarities to Western storytelling that many Anime lack, largely due to original author's influence from American comics.)

[MLai]

To be fair, don't you think Legend Of The Overfiend (Urotsukidoji) is actually pretty awesome if you accept that it has X-rated scenes?

It dealt with supernatural apocalyptic themes in a way that was kind of new for the time period, it had a trippy character and thematic buildup IMO similar to Johnny Darko, it depicted the infernal in a raw but accurate way (medieval devils really were that obsessed with sex and sexual themes), and the narrative character (the kid with the whiskers) is pretty cool.

I'll admit I got my hands on all the sequels because I really liked the kid with the whiskers, and I wanted to see what happened with him. He's like a Devil World Mad Max. I mean, after the Apocalypse he and his krew went on a road trip across Hell On Earth in a tank. That imagery is just badass.

[Velaryon]

I'll add my two cents in here, although I readily admit that most people who have posted have a lot deeper familiarity with anime than I do, and have a significantly larger pool of shows from which they can make recommendations.

The reason for the above is because I actively avoided anime throughout my teens and early twenties because Dragon Ball Z and Inuyasha turned me away and left me with a very negative impression (I still hate both of those shows to this day). It was mroe than a few years before I decided to give the medium another chance, and so I'll throw in a few of the ones that got me watching again.

All of these shows were on Netflix at the time I watched them, but I don't know their current status (or whether they're on Hulu Plus which I've never used).

1. Black Butler - A young nobleman in Victorian England sells his soul to a demon (who disguises itself as the boy's butler) to track down his parents' killers. The show defaults to paranormal mystery, but sometimes jumps into bizarre comedy and action, depending on which side characters show up in that particular story arc. The changes in tone can be off-putting, but the dynamic between the main characters is very interesting and when the show is good, it's really good. Season one is 25 episodes, plus one bonus episode. There is a season two which I haven't seen, so I'm not sure whether it's a direct continuation or a separate story, since season one wrapped up pretty nicely.

2. Blood+ - A teenage schoolgirl is attacked by batlike monsters, and learns she is the only one who can defeat these monsters... because she is not who she thinks she is. I'd describe it as a blend of action, mystery, and horror. It's 50 episodes long, but it keeps a consistent tone, dark atmosphere, and solid story throughout. The only criticism I have is that it's slow to get going, and probably didn't need to be more than 35-40 episodes to tell the full story.

3. Samurai 7 - This one has already been mentioned - it's Akira Kurosawa's famous movie Seven Samurai translated into sci-fi/fantasy anime. It's very well-done and remains faithful to the original despite the liberties taken in genre and style. 26 episodes, not one of them a disappointment.

4. School Rumble - Slice of life high-school comedy centered around a sweet but ditzy girl named Tenma and a tough-guy named Harima, both of whom have unrequited crushes on other people. The series is mostly episodic, but still manages to develop a strong secondary and tertiary cast that I at least couldn't help but get invested in. There are two 26-episode seasons and a few extra episodes. The biggest problem here is that it sort of ends abruptly. The manga on which it's based continues, but for whatever reason they stopped the anime even though it was fairly successful.

[Ronnoc]

Lots of suggestions have been piling in and I should pick a series soon. First off here are some clarifications on personal preferences.

As far as genre is concerned I've had an abiding love of both fantasy and sci-fi from an early age. When I started at my university an older grad student told us that 2% of physicists are in it for the pursuit of truth and knowledge, the other 98% are in it because reality has yet to give us the Death Star. I fall in the later category :smallsmile: In both cases I tend to prefer the fantastical elements be internally consistent. I don't mind FTL for example provided it has in series rules to it's use. I'm likely to comment on the physical implications of the series but it's all in good fun.

I am also fond of a good mystery or historical fiction however I tend to be pickier in these genres. For example I detest Sherlock Holmes by Doyle because using Watson as the readers perspective makes correctly guessing the outcome of the case an exercise in futility.

In principle I have no strong feelings for or against fanservice. That said if a series uses fanservice to excuse the lack of an interesting plot I will enjoy crucifying it.

Note I'm treating this whole thing as a bit of a writing exercise, if you give me a series I enjoy then I've gained a fandom. If not, well criticism is fun to write.

[Aotrs Commander]

To be fair, don't you think Legend Of The Overfiend (Urotsukidoji) is actually pretty awesome if you accept that it has X-rated scenes?

Not personally, no.




As to OP, I am not making any suggestions myself, since I am not an anime buff, and despite my... unfortunate brushes with late-night mid-1990s anime, I am not that widely versed; the only ones I could suggest would be very, very long (Naruto) or require bit of familiarity with the genera to get the subversion (Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha).

Though I suppose Martain Successor Nadesico is not a bad one for a geninue suggestion for giant-robot anime (though I've no idea of the availability, I have it on DVD); I watched it concurrently with Evangelion and I found it so superior it's not even funny. (Unlike Nadeciso, which cycles between very funny and deadly serious but does it rather well.) It's also of a relatively sane length (twenty or so-ish episodes, something like that?)

[Radar]

I don't have Hulu or Netflix, so I can't tell, what is or isn't there.

Cowboy Bebop is great - superb music, great characters, really good animation and a proper blend of serious and lighter tones. The only complain I've heard was it's mostly episodic in nature, but it's a matter of personal taste.

I'd rather not recommend Dragonball Z - it really suffers from padding and repetitive plots. The series should have ended with the Friezer saga and even then there was a lot of padding during fights. Frankly, the filler episodes between serious arcs were the good ones for me. Maybe the new revision (Dragonball Z Kai I guess) is better in that regard, but I didn't see it, so I can't say. IMO Dragonball was a way better series.

As for Slayers, it's heavily inspired with classic D&D games - similar plots, climate and first and foremost the very same attitude from the "heroes". It's a very fun series to watch, but it's quite long.

For more nonstandard (or rather less tame) choices, there are for example two versions of Hellsing anime series (the second is called Hellsing Ultimate). It's a series about an english organisation specialising in destroying vampires and other foul beings (ghouls and very rarely other things). It's brutal with excessive use of blood. Both series have their merits though and they are widely different in tone (first one is more or less an action horror with a mystery plot behind everything and Ultimate is IMO more about the madness of war) and plot (except for the begining). The fights are well animated and entertaining to watch, if you're into supernatural action scenes. Solid character interplay and the plot is solid even if really over-the-top (in Ultimate at least - the first series is more subtle with a magnificent finale).

An interesting introduction to the medium would also be movies:

Ghibli studio is most likely my favorite movie producer ever. They productions vary from lighthearted fantasy (for example Ponyo) to rather tragic serious movies (Grave of the Fireflies). My personal recommendation would be either My Neighbor Totoro (family movie mostly revolving about kids discovering the countryside and some friendly supernatural neighbors; recommended for too many reasons to count), Spirited Away (feels like a classic fairy tale and is a really good movie) or Princess Mononoke (epic fantasy movie, which does deserve the word epic). If you want something very unlike anime in the general aestetics, then they also made My Neighbors the Yamadas, which is a fun set of slice-of-life situations revolving around the titular fimily with minimalistic animation.

If you're into cyberpunk or science fiction in general, then Ghost in the Shell is really worth seeing. There were more productions in the same setting with the same main title, but I haven't seen them sadly, so I can't say much about them.

If family movies are a go, then there is also a more recent movie Wolf Children about well... life, growing up, meeting expectations and so on. Very good one and since I could view it in regular TV, it should be available in online services as well.


edit: if you want a really hard SF with solid characters, then I'd go with Planetes - it's about space janitors so to speak (they extract dangerous objects from Earth orbit). This (http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AemG0TjJUcQ/hqdefault.jpg) image says a lot about the job.

[Velaryon]

Thanks for mentioning movies, particularly Studio Ghibli! The only thing is that they're not really conducive to a Let's Watch unless Ronnoc decides to do a bunch of them in succession.

That said, Studio Ghibli has a whole long list of excellent movies, so a marathon of their best could be interesting. I'd throw Howl's Moving Castle and The Secret World of Arietty into the list of suggestions personally, though I've seen Howl criticized in the past for reasons that make no sense to me.

[GloatingSwine]

The ending of Howl's Moving Castle falls apart quite badly, because some of the key themes, events, and character relations of the book are missing, the final act of the film is just a confused set of stuff happening with no logical progression of events.

[Batou1976]

Here's a vote for Maria the Virgin Witch. I'd call it "historical fantasy" because it's set in France during the Hundred Years War (exact year not specified but has to be after 1431 since the execution of Jeanne d'Arc is mentioned), but has witches and succubi and such in it. Different from other fantasy anime in that the regular, "real world" characters' weapons and equipment are realistic, and they fight in a more realistic manner instead of the flashy, overwrought style of other anime; the only characters whose appearance/clothing adhere to typical anime conventions are those with some sort of supernatural affiliation. Explores notions related to war, its futility, learning how to live and let live, and so on.

[Grinner]

My turn! My turn!

So. I'm gonna reiterate recommendations for Hellsing and Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex. For Hellsing, I think you might enjoy the first anime series, just titled Hellsing, better than the second, titled Hellsing Ultimate. Hellsing Ultimate breezes through most of the storyline presented by the Hellsing and then goes off in its own direction. A very weird direction. Plus, you can find the whole of the first series on YouTube, while I think Funimation's YouTube channel is missing the last two episodes of Hellsing Ultimate.

I'll also recommend Blast of Tempest and Le Chevalier d'Eon.

Blast of Tempest is a contemporary fantasy series which is...difficult to explain without spoilers. Without giving away too much, it's about two boys who go toe to toe with an ancient clan of sorcerers in assisting a young woman escape from an island, and with more plot twists than you can shake a Death Note at.

Le Chevalier d'Eon is a historical fantasy about the eponymous d'Eon de Beaumont wherein he not a transvestite as his historical precedent was, but a knight in the service of King Loius XV possessed by his sister's ghost. An episode or two in, our hero sets out on a journey across the length and breadth of Europe to uncover a conspiracy at the behest of his king. This conspiracy, it should be mentioned, his sister had been investigating at the time of her death.

[Draconium]

My turn! My turn!

So. I'm gonna reiterate recommendations for Hellsing and Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex. For Hellsing, I think you might enjoy the first anime series, just titled Hellsing, better than the second, titled Hellsing Ultimate. Hellsing Ultimate breezes through most of the storyline presented by the Hellsing and then goes off in its own direction. A very weird direction. Plus, you can find the whole of the first series on YouTube, while I think Funimation's YouTube channel is missing the last two episodes of Hellsing Ultimate.
I feel I should point out that Hellsing was based off of a manga, and that Hellsing Ultimate is actually the more faithful adaptation of it - it's the first anime series that goes off in a different direction. There are a few points that are present in both series, and Hellsing does take a bit more time with these situations, but I personally prefer Hellsing Ultimate out of the two. Plus, Ultimate has a hilarious Abridged adaptation by Team Four Star, if you want to see a funnier (and more inappropriate) interpretation of the story. :smalltongue:

[MLai]

Radar is a physicist-mathematician (I think professionally), so if he says something is "really hard sci-fi", chances are it is (unlike say, for example, Interstellar). So if you feel like some of that, Planetes is a safe bet. It is also a great anime series on its own, listed by a lot of ppl over the years.

Though, if we wanted an entertaining Let's Watch, we really should collectively find you the worst anime series we can think of.

[Kitten Champion]

I agree with Planetes as a suggestion, though like with any of these I don't know what's available on whatever streaming service that's out there.

[Sallera]

Since it was mentioned, I'll actually second Blast of Tempest/Zetsuen no Tempest. That series would make great LW fodder.

[MLai]

Curiosity made me look up Blast of Tempest real quick.

https://theglorioblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/tempestxx2.png
Okay, without having seen it I think it's a series which does what a lot of ppl think when they think "anime but the good ones". Attractive boys and girls doing badass things, quoting stuff that makes teenagers sound deep, and plot convolution (in a shameless but intriquing way) only found in Asian (and French) cinema.

Certainly, if you're an anime noob but want to watch something "representative" of anime, but something good(?), then this could be it. I'm tempted to watch it myself.

[TheThan]

Though, if we wanted an entertaining Let's Watch, we really should collectively find you the worst anime series we can think of.

Challenge accepted:

Mad bull 34
Doomed Megalopolis
Apocalypse zero
MD Geist
Violence Jack.

[MLai]

Challenge accepted:
Mad bull 34
Doomed Megalopolis
Apocalypse zero
MD Geist
Violence Jack.
Maybe you're thinking of a different title, because Doomed Megalopolis was actually substantive unlike your other choices.

Sure it had "extreme" imagery as well, but it actually aspired to something such as The Exorcist rather than The Saw VII or Nightmare On Elm Street VIII. It actually understood what "plot" and "atmosphere" meant. And artwise, it is impeccable at times.

(But then, I've argued Urotsukidoji has an odd merit and charm, so I'm pretty lenient when it comes to animated shock.)

(I need to see it again. I never did manage to see the final OVA eps...)

[Brother Oni]

Challenge accepted:

Mad bull 34
Doomed Megalopolis
Apocalypse zero
MD Geist
Violence Jack.

The Guyver
Jungle Wa Hale Itsumo Nochi Guu (for its incomprehensibility value, otherwise it's a highly entertaining anime, especially Deluxe!)
Gintama (one of its meta anime industry or slice of (very Japanese) life episodes)
Marmalade Boy (I watched all 76 episodes on a bet and even though I won the bet, I still lost).

Wicked City probably comes close, but its production values from Madhouse saves it.

[Grinner]

The Guyver

Wait. What?

We're talking Guyver as in Biobooster Armor, right? Was that bad? It certainly wasn't great by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't think it would rank anywhere near the top of "Worst Anime Ever". Personally, I'd put it somewhere around the depth and complexity of Saturday morning cartoons. Am I forgetting something?

[MLai]

Wait. What?

We're talking Guyver as in Biobooster Armor, right? Was that bad? It certainly wasn't great by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't think it would rank anywhere near the top of "Worst Anime Ever". Personally, I'd put it somewhere around the depth and complexity of Saturday morning cartoons. Am I forgetting something?
You're not forgetting. Guyver is basically something like Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers, except with R-rated (never X-rated) macho violence in animation form. Which actually makes it pretty cool for young teens discovering anime. That Guyver dude is like Steven Seagal; he didn't mess around.

Brother Oni apparently has high standards; he almost rated Wicked City as a "Worst Anime". I remember it as one of the best, the 1st quality anime in my memory to explore the genre of hardboiled crime fiction and mix it with hardcore supernatural.

[Kitten Champion]

I assume he meant "Worst anime to Let's Watch" or something rather than general quality, because his statements don't really follow logically otherwise.

[Brother Oni]

I assume he meant "Worst anime to Let's Watch" or something rather than general quality, because his statements don't really follow logically otherwise.

That was what I was aiming for. I could have included Tetsuko no Tabi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetsuko_no_Tabi), which is a train spotter's anime, but train spotting is kinda understandable.

[Aotrs Commander]

Challenge accepted:

Mad bull 34
Doomed Megalopolis
Apocalypse zero
MD Geist
Violence Jack.

Interestingly, all of those have been reviewed by Bennett the Sage on Anime Abandon, except the last one, in which instead he filmed a review-length little drama piece about the Sage having a breakdown (quite well done, for my money) because he realised (both in and out of character) that he could find no way to approach it and have it be funny (or even viewable). Which I think says it all, really.

[TheThan]

Interestingly, all of those have been reviewed by Bennett the Sage on Anime Abandon, except the last one, in which instead he filmed a review-length little drama piece about the Sage having a breakdown (quite well done, for my money) because he realised (both in and out of character) that he could find no way to approach it and have it be funny (or even viewable). Which I think says it all, really.

True that.
He and I are of the same mind on a lot of the shows he’s reviewed.


Akira:
I’ve never actually read the manga, but from what I’ve gathered they tried to stuff the long running and apparently very complex manga into a 2ish hour animated movie. With varying degrees of success depending on who you ask. It’s trying to tell a more complex story than its runtime allows, what with domestic terrorism, street biker gangs, government experimentation, Akira himself, psychic powers and probably several more themes I’m totally blanking on. The result is a befuddled, convoluted mess of a story with plot points that basically go nowhere. However it makes up for it with breathtaking animation.

Banner of the stars:
This has the most horrible, god-awful dubbing I have had to sit through. I’ve never heard such lack of emotion and pure deadpan preformed ever. The dub I saw at least, made HAL 9000 (2001: A Space Odyssey) sound absolutely Shakespearian in his delivery. It’s impossible to describe and do it justice; it must be heard to be believed.

Berserk:
Another attempt to stuff a long running manga into a much shorter anime. This one however at least isn’t horribly confusing. However it ends right about when the Manga in essence gets going. I never understood why they never continued the anime. Despite being competently made the best part about this anime is the outtakes, the freaking outtakes; no seriously the outtakes are amazing.

Blue Gender:
Talk about wasted opportunity, this show has an interesting premise, and one that’s right up my alley. But it goes nowhere; the pay off at the end is flat and makes no sense considering the information the show gives the audience. However there are some good things, the hateful protagonist gets over it and man ups, and it’s got enough production value to make it look and sound good.


Galaxy express 999:
The show I had to watch three times because I fell asleep twice. It’s that boring. In fact, I don’t recall much of it because it left such a tiny impression on me. That, in my opinion, is the worst thing a piece of media can do, is leave the audience disinterested and board. Even if you watch a show and hate it, you’re having an emotional reaction (albeit a negative one) and are thus more likely to recall it. We remember things that we love and hate, not the things we are totally neutral towards. if a show has such a little impact on you that you can’t recall it has it really done it's job?


Perfect Blue:
Perfect Blue tries to be smarter and deeper than it really is. It’s about a young Idol star that switches careers, but she has a crisis of personality and starts to lose her sanity, only to recover it at the end as if nothing had happened, oh and stalkers. There’s stalkers.

Neon Genesis Evangelion:
This anime almost broke me. Everything from the meaningless religious symbolism, the faux deepness (Existentialism and Nihilism are not that deep), the confusing story and hateful characters nearly drove me to the brink. It’s supposed to be a deconstruction of the Giant Mecha Genre; which would be fine. But there is so little to actually enjoy about watching this show. gha!


You know, I could probably tear apart every anime I’ve ever seen, but we’re trying to get someone to enjoy the medium, not scare him off.

[Knaight]

Lots of suggestions have been piling in and I should pick a series soon. First off here are some clarifications on personal preferences.

As far as genre is concerned I've had an abiding love of both fantasy and sci-fi from an early age. When I started at my university an older grad student told us that 2% of physicists are in it for the pursuit of truth and knowledge, the other 98% are in it because reality has yet to give us the Death Star. I fall in the later category :smallsmile: In both cases I tend to prefer the fantastical elements be internally consistent. I don't mind FTL for example provided it has in series rules to it's use. I'm likely to comment on the physical implications of the series but it's all in good fun.

You would probably like Moribito then. It's a 26 episode fantasy series based on a book written by an anthropologist, and it shows. The fantasy elements are mostly on the subtle, understated end that makes it really work, and it's just solid across the board.

[Rodin]

I agree with Planetes as a suggestion, though like with any of these I don't know what's available on whatever streaming service that's out there.

Planetes is actually really hard to get. Nowhere streams it that I know of, and the DVDs are out of print so they're like $150 on Ebay/Amazon Marketplace.

Which is a damn shame, because I really want to watch it.

[MorgromTheOrc]

I would second Hellsing and Full Metal Alchemist for a newbie.

I actually thought Guvyer was good but not really great, it has some interesting themes but the style would probably turn you off to anime as it's power rangerish but definitely watchable at a later time.

I would add 2 to the list. Princess Mononoke is a classic with a great story. It's a movie about spirits and demons, and humanities impact on nature. Not sure how available it is though, likely not very.

I would also suggest Overlord, as I know it's on HULU and it's really good. The main character is a max level guild leader in an vrmmorpg, the game is falling out of popularity and the servers shut down, leading to him in all of his might being transported to an actual universe that follows the games rules. It draws a lot from D&D so I think you could relate to it better than most anime, for a D&D translation of the story drop an epic level lich wizard with many high level NPC cohorts and an optimized base into an e6 game. I will warn that at first it gives off a slight harem anime vibe(an anime where many women fall in love with the protagonist) but this goes away after about the second or third episode. It's relatively new which is good because it's short(1 season out) but there's also not much consensus on how good it is(I would say superb).

[HMS Invincible]

Is ronnic gonna watch anything or are we going to turn this into yet another recommendation thread?

[Closet_Skeleton]

Only show* I want to recommend isn't available :smallfrown:



Certainly, if you're an anime noob but want to watch something "representative" of anime, but something good(?), then this could be it. I'm tempted to watch it myself.

Its a great representative of pretentious shonen anime (much better than over-rated crap like Death Note) but if you can't turn on your inner teenage boy it loses something.



1. The women look like little girls to someone who has never seen anime. That's just one of many Jpnese art styles. The women are also depicted as sexy. This may turn off an anime novice.
2. The characterizations can get quite exaggerated, as if the characters are play-acting rather than behaving like normal ppl. That's just one of many Jpnese story styles. This may turn off an anime novice.
3. I personally consider this anime to be decent, but not a memorable classic like certain other series. But it depends on the viewer's tastes.

1. Stein's Gate has a some variety in the maturity of its women. One two of its characters are really immature.
2. They are play-acting. In that sense its good for beginners since its self-aware about its weird characterisation rather than just asking you to accept it.
3. I agree completely.


Maybe you're thinking of a different title, because Doomed Megalopolis was actually substantive unlike your other choices.

I wish the novel is was based on was more available in translation, but have no interest in the anime.

Of course I could just finish learning Japanese, but that would require effort.


Planetes is actually really hard to get. Nowhere streams it that I know of, and the DVDs are out of print so they're like $150 on Ebay/Amazon Marketplace.

Which is a damn shame, because I really want to watch it.

That is a shame. My parents still have the fansubs somewhere but I never got around to watching it.

*Dennou Coil, the show I always try to recommend and never convince anyone to watch

[Drascin]

I'm going to back the suggestion for Seirei no Moribito myself, yeah. It has very little of the over-stylization that seems to turn so many people off, it has a great story, a very solid construction, subtle animistic fantasy stuff, and the outlook is still very much quintessentially Japanese in a way you don't get from western cartoons.

And it's pretty as hell, which is always nice :smalltongue:.

[Brother Oni]

Berserk:
Another attempt to stuff a long running manga into a much shorter anime. This one however at least isn’t horribly confusing. However it ends right about when the Manga in essence gets going. I never understood why they never continued the anime. Despite being competently made the best part about this anime is the outtakes, the freaking outtakes; no seriously the outtakes are amazing.


Wasn't the Berserk TV series stopped because the producer was arrested for fraud, or am I thinking about a different series?

I'm also not aware of any out-takes for Berserk.

The show with the best omake in my opinion is "Welcome to Lodoss Island", which has a full length TV series (Record of Lodoss War) attached to it.

[TheThan]

Wasn't the Berserk TV series stopped because the producer was arrested for fraud, or am I thinking about a different series?

I'm also not aware of any out-takes for Berserk.

The show with the best omake in my opinion is "Welcome to Lodoss Island", which has a full length TV series (Record of Lodoss War) attached to it.

I don't know... I'll get back to you after an internet search.

However the out-takes are only on the English dub since it's all done by the English cast, if you haven’t seen the English dub, it’s worth it.
I’ll save you the trouble of re-watching it and just link it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw8Q0iBKrOA).

[Eldan]

I just like Stein's Gate because it's so damn rare to find media with characters in it who act even a bit like real scientists.

Where's my represenation in media, dammit.

[Lethologica]

With respect to availability, don't forget the library. That's how I got ahold of Planetes, for example.

[Velaryon]

Radar is a physicist-mathematician (I think professionally), so if he says something is "really hard sci-fi", chances are it is (unlike say, for example, Interstellar). So if you feel like some of that, Planetes is a safe bet. It is also a great anime series on its own, listed by a lot of ppl over the years.

Though, if we wanted an entertaining Let's Watch, we really should collectively find you the worst anime series we can think of.

Can I add Witchblade to that list? It's a little different since the source material is American rather than Japanese, but IMO it still falls firmly within the anime genre. And squanders several really good ideas by treating the premise as nothing more than an excuse for softcore anime porn.



With respect to availability, don't forget the library. That's how I got ahold of Planetes, for example.

As a library worker who is (unofficially) in charge of buying and promoting an anime collection, I give a big +1 to this. :smallbiggrin:

[turkishproverb]

I actually lump western animation in with anime, it’s all animation after all. “Anime” is great shorthand for “highly stylized animation from Japan” though. However Anime is more fully realized as its own medium than most western animation. With shows that cross the length and berth of fiction genre.

Western animation primarily focuses on children. Disney for instance, created straight up master works before they shut down their traditional animation department (a tragedy in my opinion) but still those masterworks were geared towards children. Heck even animation that wasn’t geared for children like Loony Tunes/Merry Melodies has been shown on Saturday morning cartoon slots for years; and is generally considered kid’s stuff. It’s a shift in paradigm, bugs bunny dressing up as a woman and kissing Elmer Fudd was meant to be comedy for adults back in the 40s-60s, by the 80s it was considered tame kids stuff. it’s not that the west can’t produce animation for adults (the Simpsons, Family guy, South park en/alt are all adult shows; its just that most people in the west, even today, consider animation only for kids. (yes I know that opinion is changing but still, it exists). Heck back in the 90s, hentai (animated porn basically) was placed on the same shelf with Saturday morning anime simply because the people stocking the shelves just assumed it was for kids because it was a cartoon.

Anyway I try to ease people into the medium by starting them out on stuff that’s easy to digest, and makes a modicum of sense. So I try to avoid shows that are heavy, too zany, too steeped in Japanese culture or history. To use a poor analogy, Ronnoc can dive into the deep end after he gets he learns to swim. Which is why I highly recommend Cowboy bebop, it’s one of the most western anime I’ve come across so it’s easy for a westerner to digest and understand; it’s also a top shelf anime in its own right.

Lets see, other things to know… ahh

Demographics. Like a lot of other programming, Anime is usually aimed at a target audience. You will often see terms describing certain anime, these are shorthand for the demographic that a particular anime is aimed at. Keep in mind this is shorthand and can vary widely in style and appeal.

Yaoi- male homosexual
Yuri- female homoxesual
Ecchi- sexual overtones sans intercourse
Kodomo- children’s programming
Shojo - for girls
Shounen -for boys
Seinen – teenager/young adult.

I’m probably missing a few but meh wikipedia’s your friend. Also keep in mind that many of these shows don’t treat children the same way, so something like a shounen anime can be more complex than say a typical Saturday morning cartoon here in the west. The benefit is that an adult can watch a shounen show for instance, without feeling like a tool for watching something meant for kids. Andi I just realized this post turned out significantly longer than intended so I'll call it quits for now.

...I can't believe I"m the one who has to say this....Yaoi doesn't target Male Homosexuals, it features them. The target audience is females/women who are attracted to men.


Also, lot of good recommendations on here. For stuff on Netflix, I'm not sure where I'd say to start. Most of the shows on it that I've watched aren't my thing, though a few were fun. If you like espionage and scifi, go for Ghost in the Shell, I think some of that is on there.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Technically none of that's right, since shonen, seinen, josei and shoujo are manga demographics based on magazine publications not anime ones.

Ecchi is a Japanese euphemism for sexual intercourse, Hentai just means perverted. If you actually hear the words used in Japanese dialogue that's what they tend to mean. The use of Ecchi to mean 'not porn' and Hentai to mean 'porn' in Western fandom when they have an opposite implication in Japanese is just one of those nonsensical curiosities.

Yuri is usually aimed at boys. Girls Love and Boys Love on the other hand are both aimed at heterosexual girls. Yaoi is old fashioned and not used in Japan. Stories aimed at actual homosexual women tend to be called simply 'Lesbian' (or Rezubi-an if you want to be pretentious).

The Japanese obsession with odd English loan words for genre titles and the non-Japanese fandom's obsession with similarly incorrect Japanese loanwords mirror each other quite well.

I don't think there was really anything wrong with TheThan's post, he missed some information but the terms he states are used in Western fandom and understood with those meanings.

[TheThan]

Technically none of that's right, since shonen, seinen, josei and shoujo are manga demographics based on magazine publications not anime ones.

Ecchi is a Japanese euphemism for sexual intercourse, Hentai just means perverted. If you actually hear the words used in Japanese dialogue that's what they tend to mean. The use of Ecchi to mean 'not porn' and Hentai to mean 'porn' in Western fandom when they have an opposite implication in Japanese is just one of those nonsensical curiosities.

Yuri is usually aimed at boys. Girls Love and Boys Love on the other hand are both aimed at heterosexual girls. Yaoi is old fashioned and not used in Japan. Stories aimed at actual homosexual women tend to be called simply 'Lesbian' (or Rezubi-an if you want to be pretentious).

The Japanese obsession with odd English loan words for genre titles and the non-Japanese fandom's obsession with similarly incorrect Japanese loanwords mirror each other quite well.

I don't think there was really anything wrong with TheThan's post, he missed some information but the terms he states are used in Western fandom and understood with those meanings.

Yeah, the meanings have a little more depth than what I posted, I did mention it was shorthand after all.