For Greenish and any who want to put input

[Masakan]

Took my months to perfect it, but backstory aside. This is what i got so far.

Feats to get
Weapon Finesse
Deadly Defence
Combat Casting:Flaw
Practiced Spellcaster
Steady Concentration
Einhander or Piranha Strike
Arcane Strike
Rolibar's Gabmit
Martial Study(Greater Insightful Strike)



Race
Silverbrow Human


Traits
Cautious
Focused


Flaws
Vulnerable
Weak Will


Weapon
Gladius
Buckler to start


Order
Warblade 1
Sorcerer 2
Warblade 3

Prestige
Abjurant Champion 5
Eldrich Knight 9


Remember to get Masterwork Tools for Concentration
Get Instruments of the Blood Gift
Gloves of Dexterity
Bands of Blood Rage:2,600
Blood Claw Choker:12,000

Replace Summon Familiar with Spell Shield
Alchemical Items to keep in mind:Liquid Embers

I
Shadow Cloak
Circlet of Mages
Anklet of Translocation
Bracers of Counterstrike
Tunic of Steady Spellcasting/Switch With Veil of Storms
Belt of Healing/Replace with Belt of Hidden Pouches(Because he will be doing a lot of alchemy stuff, Tanglefoot bags and Noxious Smokesticks ftw)
Stormfire Ring
Third Eye:Concentrate
Scabbard of Keen Edges
Twilight Mithril Shirt
Wand Chamber
Eternal Wand of WraithStrike:For Wand Chamber
Eternal Wand of Magecraft
Eternal Wand of Blade of Blood
Crystal of Energy Assault:Electricity


Triple weapon capsule retainer For Alchemy
QuickSpark Alchemical Weapon Capsules/Make Quicksilver and Ghostblights Later on
Red Fire Incence(Don't ask where i found this)

Level 1 Spells
Shield
Orb of Electricity
Blade of Blood
Magic Missile
Wings of Swift Flying

Level 2
Wings of Cover
Shocking Spark
WraithStrike
Resist Energy
Dispelling Touch

Level 3
Greater Magic Weapon
Evard's Menacing Tentacles
Scintiliating Sphere
Dragonskin

Level 4
Dalamar's Lightning Lance
Wings of Flurry
Evard's Black Tentacles
Stoneskin

Level 5
Lord of the Sky
Arcane Fusion
Indomitability

Level 6
Chain Lightning
Antimagic Field

Level 7
Arcane Spellsurge
Electrical Storm

Warblades Maneuvers
Moment of Perfect Mind:Counter
Sapphire Nightmare Blade:Strike
Steel Wind:Strike:Trade for Insightful Strike
Emerald Razor:Strike
Action Before Thought:Counter

Remember Action Points

[Deophaun]

A couple things.

First, how do you want this character to play?

Second: Masterwork tools don't work that way. You don't say "I have a masterwork tool of Concentration." Instead, you say "I have a masterwork spoon. Mr. DM, what does this give me? I'm really hoping that it's a +2 to Concentration, because my character spends all night looking at it, trying to bend it with his mind. If it gives me a bonus, what is the action required?"

That said, you might want to look to a Githcraft buckler (DMG II, weapon and armor templates)

Third: Eternal wands, sadly, do not work like normal wands. They aren't actually wands at all, being command activated instead of spell trigger. Their activation is fixed at a standard action. So, an Eternal Wand of wraithstrike doesn't help you unless you're hoping for an AoO. Similarly, the Eternal Wand of blade of blood would also do little, only there you have the option of paying more to increase its caster level to buy you more rounds.

[Masakan]

A couple things.

First, how do you want this character to play?

Second: Masterwork tools don't work that way. You don't say "I have a masterwork tool of Concentration." Instead, you say "I have a masterwork spoon. Mr. DM, what does this give me? I'm really hoping that it's a +2 to Concentration, because my character spends all night looking at it, trying to bend it with his mind. If it gives me a bonus, what is the action required?"

That said, you might want to look to a Githcraft buckler (DMG II, weapon and armor templates)

Third: Eternal wands, sadly, do not work like normal wands. They aren't actually wands at all, being command activated instead of spell trigger. Their activation is fixed at a standard action. So, an Eternal Wand of wraithstrike doesn't help you unless you're hoping for an AoO. Similarly, the Eternal Wand of blade of blood would also do little, only there you have the option of paying more to increase its caster level to buy you more rounds.

So the only one of any real use is the eternal wand of magecraft, githcraft looks nice so I will definitely take that.

In general, You got people who are all in front liners and people who stick to the back, I want my character to play like a mid liner, Providing blasting support to the guys in the frontlines while being able to get his hands dirty when he needs to. In general I wanna be adaptable. So something of a jack of all trades?

[Greenish]

I want my character to play like a mid liner, Providing blasting support to the guys in the frontlines while being able to get his hands dirty when he needs to.For the stated purpose the build is a bit heavy on the martial side, both in levels and feats, but if gishing is your calling, it should be good enough. I'd consider Jade Phoenix Mage levels, even, over the largely barren Eldritch Knight.

There are a few details you might want to divulge, such as how powerful you wish to be (or how powerful you expect your fellow party members to be, and the sort of difficulties you expect to face, same thing), how serious you're about the whole melee thing, and perhaps most crucially, which level you're starting, and how far you can except to reasonably go.


Also hay my own thread, sweet.

[Masakan]

For the stated purpose the build is a bit heavy on the martial side, both in levels and feats, but if gishing is your calling, it should be good enough. I'd consider Jade Phoenix Mage levels, even, over the largely barren Eldritch Knight.

There are a few details you might want to divulge, such as how powerful you wish to be (or how powerful you expect your fellow party members to be, and the sort of difficulties you expect to face, same thing), how serious you're about the whole melee thing, and perhaps most crucially, which level you're starting, and how far you can except to reasonably go.


Also hay my own thread, sweet.

It really was a toss up between eldrich knight and Jade phoenix mage. At first I wanted eldritch knight just so i could have easy access to rolibars gambit, but since i was able to shorten it...yeah ill go back to JPM. I'll lose out on a level 7 spell but w/e.

Really I wanna be powerful...but not earthshattering. And I make most of my builds under the assumption that the campaign ends at level 15 but i take precautions for the thought that it goes longer.

[Deophaun]

Mid-range blaster. I have a possibility.

Shockingly, you won't need to worry too much about Concentration. You shouldn't be dumping your Constitution (+2 or +3), and you will be putting a skill point into it each level. But consider that, by level 20, you would have a +24 to concentration from skill points alone. That's good enough to automatically succeed on defensively casting a 9th level spell. Add your Con score to that. Now, add the githcraft buckler. Add an item that gives you a +5 bonus (2,500 gp). You're really not going to need Combat Casting or Steady Concentration. So, let's get rid of them.

In their place, it's not optimal, but take Heighten Spell (although you might want this anyway to boost save DCs) and Fiery Burst (Complete Mage). Sub out one of your second level spells for scorching ray. Now, as long as you have a 2nd level spell slot, you can lay down little 2d6 explosions. As long as you have a 3rd level, they're 3d6, and so on up to 7d6. You're a bit like a Warlock now, able to blast at-will. However, this is a supernatural ability, so it doesn't provoke AoOs and isn't subject to spell resistance.

There are better things you can do with those feats, but that's just an idea.

As a base sorcerer, you have a limited spell selection. Avoid duplication. At level one, you have two attack spells. This is a waste, especially as they will be made obsolete as the game progresses. I can't help it, but I have to recommend benign transposition. It's just amazing and will save the lives of your party members multiple times.

In my experience, I haven't much liked touching things in order to dispel magic. For level 2, I recommend arcane turmoil instead of dispelling touch. Because it's a ranged spell (although it won't work on objects), it synergizes well with your Swift Abjuration class feature. Dispelling touch wouldn't because it still requires a touch attack.

Dragonskin overlaps with resist energy.

Stoneskin... I'm not too thrilled with spells that require costly material components for spontaneous casters, but that's just me. I would recommend Otilukes suppressing field instead, though. It's almost like a selective anti-magic field. Even better, as it will suppress spontaneous conjuration spells cast into it. So, you can use it as anti-magic, and you can even use it as a temporary dispel magic, only without a level cap (!). (I would keep this with arcane turmoil, just because swift action dispelling is that good)

Speaking of spontaneous conjurations... you want one for the very reason I mentioned: they cut through anti-magic fields like a hot knife through butter. It could be a 4th level orb spell if you want single target (although these generally benefit from heavy Metamagic investment), but I'm partial to doom scarabs.

[Masakan]

Mid-range blaster. I have a possibility.

Shockingly, you won't need to worry too much about Concentration. You shouldn't be dumping your Constitution (+2 or +3), and you will be putting a skill point into it each level. But consider that, by level 20, you would have a +24 to concentration from skill points alone. That's good enough to automatically succeed on defensively casting a 9th level spell. Add your Con score to that. Now, add the githcraft buckler. Add an item that gives you a +5 bonus (2,500 gp). You're really not going to need Combat Casting or Steady Concentration. So, let's get rid of them.

In their place, it's not optimal, but take Heighten Spell (although you might want this anyway to boost save DCs) and Fiery Burst (Complete Mage). Sub out one of your second level spells for scorching ray. Now, as long as you have a 2nd level spell slot, you can lay down little 2d6 explosions. As long as you have a 3rd level, they're 3d6, and so on up to 7d6. You're a bit like a Warlock now, able to blast at-will. However, this is a supernatural ability, so it doesn't provoke AoOs and isn't subject to spell resistance.

There are better things you can do with those feats, but that's just an idea.

As a base sorcerer, you have a limited spell selection. Avoid duplication. At level one, you have two attack spells. This is a waste, especially as they will be made obsolete as the game progresses. I can't help it, but I have to recommend benign transposition. It's just amazing and will save the lives of your party members multiple times.

In my experience, I haven't much liked touching things in order to dispel magic. For level 2, I recommend arcane turmoil instead of dispelling touch. Because it's a ranged spell (although it won't work on objects), it synergizes well with your Swift Abjuration class feature. Dispelling touch wouldn't because it still requires a touch attack.

Dragonskin overlaps with resist energy.

Stoneskin... I'm not too thrilled with spells that require costly material components for spontaneous casters, but that's just me. I would recommend Otilukes suppressing field instead, though. It's almost like a selective anti-magic field. Even better, as it will suppress spontaneous conjuration spells cast into it. So, you can use it as anti-magic, and you can even use it as a temporary dispel magic, only without a level cap (!). (I would keep this with arcane turmoil, just because swift action dispelling is that good)

Speaking of spontaneous conjurations... you want one for the very reason I mentioned: they cut through anti-magic fields like a hot knife through butter. It could be a 4th level orb spell if you want single target (although these generally benefit from heavy Metamagic investment), but I'm partial to doom scarabs.

Believe me when i say if i could avoid taking combat casting I would but i need it to qualify for abjurant champion, and the concentration focus is more for insightful strike and other diamond mind maneuvers. It just so happens to have synergy with spellcasting. I'm considering swapping out arcane strike for storm bolt by level 12(I like lightning magic) because having arcane strike AND wrath is redundant.

And what are you talking about The main spells i would get post haste are shield, orb of lightning and blades of blood. Idk why magic missile is up there, probably because i coudlnt think of anything else

Otiluke's Suppressing Field: Not bad still like stone skin better
and doom scarabs sound creepy as hell.

[Greenish]

Really I wanna be powerful...but not earthshattering.See, this in itself does not tell us much. The possible power variance inherent in 3.5 pretty much guarantees that what one person sees as "powerful", another person sees as "ridiculous powergaming", and a third one as "kinda weak".

Tell us what the rest of your group are making, what level you are, and what sort of thing you see as important and powerful, for that, especially the last one, can serve to clue us in to the power level of your group. (And I should take time here to emphasize that while the discussions on this forum often focus on the high end of power spectrum, your absolute power matters far less than your relative power when compared to the other players in your table, and there, you should not aim much if any higher than the others, for the sake of the game. Also it'll be easier for your DM, and he or she will thus have more time to devote on worldbuilding etc.)

[Masakan]

See, this in itself does not tell us much. The possible power variance inherent in 3.5 pretty much guarantees that what one person sees as "powerful", another person sees as "ridiculous powergaming", and a third one as "kinda weak".

Tell us what the rest of your group are making, what level you are, and what sort of thing you see as important and powerful, for that, especially the last one, can serve to clue us in to the power level of your group. (And I should take time here to emphasize that while the discussions on this forum often focus on the high end of power spectrum, your absolute power matters far less than your relative power when compared to the other players in your table, and there, you should not aim much if any higher than the others, for the sake of the game. Also it'll be easier for your DM, and he or she will thus have more time to devote on worldbuilding etc.)

See that's kind of the thing...I've taken the habit of prepreping characters, who are open enough to fit well in any world. But that's besides the point. Basically I refuse to have any of my characters weaker than tier 2. I don't want just common adventurers nor do i want borderline gods, I want characters that have the Potential. Keyword potential, to become heroes, and being entertaining while doing so.

That being said, my characters have a tendency to start off somewhat weak unless the rolls are high, not really gaining momentum until level 3 or so and then hits their spike between 7-9. They don't get weaker but their relative power would generally stop around level 15.

[Greenish]

There's no such thing as "prepared for any world", and if you want tier 2, you'll definitely have to trim down on the levels/feats/items investment to melee (which I'm not sure you're thematically prepared to do).

[Masakan]

There's no such thing as "prepared for any world", and if you want tier 2, you'll definitely have to trim down on the levels/feats/items investment to melee (which I'm not sure you're thematically prepared to do).

Wait wait wait...are you saying my guy is closer to tier 1 or is he weaker than that?

[Greenish]

Though there are certain exceptions, generally, the more casting you have, the higher the tier. Wizard 20 is tier 1. Sorcerer 20 is tier 2. Sorcerer trading out levels and feats for melee fighting is the more likely to drop a tier the more she or he trades out on casting. Your character is probably more tier 3 than tier 2.

[EDIT]: And tier 3 is many consider a sweet spot to aim for, but obviously in the end it depends on your group, and there are many other variables than tier. The old adage is "player>build>tier".

[Masakan]

Though there are certain exceptions, generally, the more casting you have, the higher the tier. Wizard 20 is tier 1. Sorcerer 20 is tier 2. Sorcerer trading out levels and feats for melee fighting is the more likely to drop a tier the more she or he trades out on casting. Your character is probably more tier 3 than tier 2.
I honestly disagree, I would argue that sorcerers are a better casting template for gishes than wizards.
Listen to my logic, Pure casters especially wizards usually want to have a plethora of different spells for different situations, and gishes would more than likely be casting the same few spells anyway, Sorcerers also have the added benefit of not being screwed over by conditions that would cause their spells to fail outside the obvious arcane spell failure. If a spell fails then you can just try again with sorcerers, if a wizards fails a spell it hurts a lot more.
And of course there's the whole spell-book thing to worry about, sorcerers don't have that issue, not to mention how costly it is to maintain it.

While it's true that wizards are considered top tier, that doesn't automatically make them the best in any given situation. Even if wizards are technically more powerful, i would still argue that sorcerers are the safer option, and not to mention less likely to break a campaign....that and I just don't like how prepared casting works.
Besides I would also argue that someone who just goes a single level in fighter and then goes magic for the rest isn't a true gish, that's just a wizard who knows how to swing a sword.

But at the end of the day, it's nice to know that' my character would still be powerful while at the same time not overshadowing the group.

[Greenish]

I honestly disagree, I would argue that sorcerers are a better casting template for gishes than wizards.You could make that argument, and it wouldn't matter one bit, since gishing is pretty much the weakest thing you can do with magic. Seriously, even fighters and barbarians can hit the enemies for damage.


And of course there's the whole spell-book thing to worry about, sorcerers don't have that issue, not to mention how costly it is to maintain it.Sorcerers also get to switch one spell very two levels. Wizards get to change all their spells every time they rest.


While it's true that wizards are considered top tier, that doesn't automatically make them the best in any given situation.That's true, they have other top tier contestants to compete with. Even then, though, wizards come up pretty good.


Even if wizards are technically more powerful, i would still argue that sorcerers are the safer option, and not to mention less likely to break a campaign....that and I just don't like how prepared casting works.Sure, those are all valid points (and I don't like prepared casting either), but that has no bearing on the tier system whatsoever.


Besides I would also argue that someone who just goes a single level in fighter and then goes magic for the rest isn't a true gish, that's just a wizard who knows how to swing a sword.That is true. Said character will also almost certainly be higher tier than any gish.


But at the end of the day, it's nice to know that' my character would still be powerful while at the same time not overshadowing the group.That is the goal of practical optimization, but stay mindful that it can't be achieved in vacuum; every group, and to some extent even every party, is its own point of comparison.

[Masakan]

You could make that argument, and it wouldn't matter one bit, since gishing is pretty much the weakest thing you can do with magic. Seriously, even fighters and barbarians can hit the enemies for damage.

Sorcerers also get to switch one spell very two levels. Wizards get to change all their spells every time they rest.

That's true, they have other top tier contestants to compete with. Even then, though, wizards come up pretty good.

Sure, those are all valid points (and I don't like prepared casting either), but that has no bearing on the tier system whatsoever.

That is true. Said character will also almost certainly be higher tier than any gish.

That is the goal of practical optimization, but stay mindful that it can't be achieved in vacuum; every group, and to some extent even every party, is its own point of comparison.

Can we please keep the clear bias of pure casters(or rather pure wizards) being better than everyone else to a minimum? I don't care if it's fact or not. Seriously your the one who suggested I do this, and I rather it not devolve into talking about how easily pure casters can break a game.

[Greenish]

Then do not bring it up. You're the one who brought up the tiers in the first place, and the relative place of build X in them.


We do not have to discuss tiers. In a way, it can be actively detrimental to the topic. I repeat that there's no assumption here that because X is better than Y, you should do X instead of Y, or anything like that. It's not relevant, it needs not to be brought up, and you should damn well stop bringing it up if you want to stay on the topic.

Now, without knowing the context of the character, there isn't all that much we can add, though there always are minor refinements (you probably don't need both Tunic of Steady Casting and Third Eye: Concentrate, say).

[Masakan]

Then do not bring it up. You're the one who brought up the tiers in the first place, and the relative place of build X in them.


We do not have to discuss tiers. In a way, it can be actively detrimental to the topic. I repeat that there's no assumption here that because X is better than Y, you should do X instead of Y, or anything like that. It's not relevant, it needs not to be brought up, and you should damn well stop bringing it up if you want to stay on the topic.

Now, without knowing the context of the character, there isn't all that much we can add, though there always are minor refinements (you probably don't need both Tunic of Steady Casting and Third Eye: Concentrate, say).

...I never meant for it to go in that direction. Sigh....this is why I say prepared casters are Overpowered, people basically treat them as I win bots, and out of courteous to my fellow players I would go no where near them in any build I do. I swear if I ever run a campaign I'm making it a point to flat out ban wizards, archivists and The spell to power erudite variant, and make people play the spontaneous variants of clerics and druids. I just needed to get that off my chest, case that has been bugging me for the longest time.

Also Tunic of steady casting is more there until i can upgrade to third eye concentrate(They don't stack)

[Greenish]

Also while we're at it, articulating an actual question wouldn't go amiss. (Also though knowing the flaws and actual spells prepared is handy, a concise summary of your character's backstory [and where you hope to go from here] could be even more helpful.)

[Masakan]

Also while we're at it, articulating an actual question wouldn't go amiss. (Also though knowing the flaws and actual spells prepared is handy, a concise summary of your character's backstory [and where you hope to go from here] could be even more helpful.)

Ideally, any character i make would fit very well in the forgotten realms setting.
Basically the general idea, would be my character is a trainee at a fighting academy, he knows the material and can hold his own but always had this gaping blind-spot that left him vulnerable(Hence the flaw) To remedy this, his mentor suggests he take up defensive fighting which helps his form greatly. There would then be an incident in which his innate magical powers would spring forth, and then a renounced sorcerer would see his latent abilities and give him a few pointers along with a invitation to whatever magical academy is in that world, thus would begin a journey of self-discovery. I would have to flesh out the details but that's the long and short of it.

It would also be clear that he has an innate proficiency with abjuration and Conjuration/Evocation spells.

[Greenish]

Well, "Forgotten Realms" level isn't really going to cut it (even ignoring the fact that FR has something of reputation for having a great number of high level casters running around), but we can probably come up with a set of classes, PrCs, etc. that can be adjusted for most campaigns.

[Masakan]

Well, "Forgotten Realms" level isn't really going to cut it (even ignoring the fact that FR has something of reputation for having a great number of high level casters running around), but we can probably come up with a set of classes, PrCs, etc. that can be adjusted for most campaigns.

I don't think the gods should be counted in that category.