Dealings with Devils

[Daddison]

Playgrounders,

I need some advice please, regarding a contract setup idea I have for my game. Here's some brief game info - We are playing in a homebrew world (much like forgotten realms), using 3.0/3.5 hybrid rules.

The setup:

Party level (2-3) with 7 gamers. I had 2 characters die. They (the party) wants resurrection for them, which I agree with. The problem is we are in the stereotypical 'backwoods' of a province where there are no real temples that would have a cleric to perform such a task, much less on 2 characters. The
character responsible for the deaths (situational, not intentional) feels really bad, both in and out of game. She is a duskblade with a pretty bad drug addiction.

There is a large river flowing through the province with lots of barge traffic. Once the remainder of the party gets back to this town and to the inn, I would like to have a group of bargeworkers there, in the corner drinking and doing some substances. In a nutshell, two of the bargeboys are devils in disguise, come to town to look for souls for Baator. They are going to get kicked out, and my intention is to lure the duskblade out to find them because she's looking for a fix. If all goes as I would like, she is going to meet them at the river and get wasted. They are going to ask her about her demeanor essentially to find out what's troubling her. When she tells them about her friends dying, I would like them to offer a contract to bring them back in repayment for something. I want the contract to be as vague as possible and the favor they want in return can be way down the line. It could even be them saying, "we will come to you when we need you or 'you owe the river' or something like that.

what's really going on is, these two devils have a bet with each other regarding the two friend's souls and the winner gets the duskblade's soul, if she defaults on the deal.

I would like suggestions on options to present this with as much subterfuge as possible (other than her being high and not remembering)?

How would devils in such a scenario go about it? I was thinking blood ritual, but doesn't there have to be a physical contract with two copies?

This is for a session tonight and any advice is much appreciated.

[weckar]

I think you may be assuming too much in that the Duskblade will take the deal.
Rule #1 of dealing with Devils: Don't.

[Daddison]

I think you may be assuming too much in that the Duskblade will take the deal.
Rule #1 of dealing with Devils: Don't.

I agree with that too, and she may not. But knowing her character (extremely reckless) she will probably fall for it, especially if they offer her dope, help, and advice. I would like to be prepared if she does. The character is verging on suicidal, after the character's deaths, so she is desperate. I see this as a perfect opportunity to introduce the Infernals because they prey on weakness, you know?

[GilesTheCleric]

Even if there's no clerics, there's some items you could drop as loot: The Bier of Life (SBG), and a shroud-something; can't remember where that one is or what it's called. Ah, found it. It's Unholy Shrouds, LM 79. Looks like I brewed an alternate version that rezzes properly instead of turning them into an undead. You could use the original and raise them as an intelligent, uncontrolled undead -- it makes them weaker (vulnerable to destruction and turning), but they do get a second shot at "life".

There's rules in Ghostwalk for PCs coming back as ghosts, which could be interesting and flavourful depending on your campaign. Or, the PCs could go on a quest with the reward being a willing cleric or some scrolls of raise dead.

And there's always the third option of letting them stay dead. Your players are only level 3; that's still early and leaves plenty of time for new characters to be integrated into the group. Without some risk, it's difficult for a combat-oriented game to be fun. Letting them die permanently now rather than later will be easier.

Making a pact with devils will be tricky: if your players are better lawyers than you are, then you could have the tables turned; if you make the terms too open, then they may not accept at all; deciding when the right time to collect without breaking whatever plot or hijinks are currently happening can be tricky; and it sets a precedent for there being an "easy" solution.

[BowStreetRunner]

Have the devils work together on this. Devil A approaches the Duskblade to make the offer. He gives him a scroll of resurrection that is specifically tuned to one of the two dead characters - whichever is the 'nicer' of the two. It will only work on this one person and only if used in the next 24 hours. This scroll is just given, with no strings attached. But Devil A clearly has a second scroll in his hand. When the Duskblade asks about this Devil A states that it is the same as the other but tuned to the second character. However, while the first one is free the second one requires a contract - specifying two future favors to be named at a later date. The Duskblade is given the chance to accept or refuse at this point.

If the Duskblade does not accept then Devil B will appear. Devil B's appearance will be quite different however - something angelic in nature as much as possible. Devil B will step in and accuse Devil A of trying to cheat the poor Duskblade. Devil B will explain that the first scroll is a resurrection for a character who is heading to a happy afterlife, and Devil A wants him resurrected so that the infernal powers will have another chance to corrupt him and possibly claim his soul before he dies. Devil B will go on to explain the reason the second scroll has a price attached is because that character is heading for a horrible afterlife of pain and eternal suffering, something Devil A doesn't want to undo. Devil B will actually try to convince the Duskblade to leave both scrolls - don't resurrect the first character because he has earned his reward and don't make any deals for the second because that would probably result in both the Duskblade and the second character eventually falling.

Devil A will reiterate that the first scroll was given without cost or any expectation of repayment. It is the Duskblade's to do with as he pleases. As for the second, Devil A will lower the price to a single favor. He will even promise that the favor requested will not be something that automatically condemns the Duskblade's soul. Devil B will make one last entreaty to leave the deal alone. He will state that while the Duskblade's failures so far have not given him much chance for redemption, there is still a very small chance for hope and he should not throw this away for the second character who after all had his chance to prove himself in life.

Honestly, hearing that the first scroll was given free and clear should make it easy enough for him to use it. As for the second, if hearing from a 'celestial being' that the character in question is suffering eternally isn't enough to convince him to make the deal I don't know what would.

[Crake]

As a rule, devil contracts are never vague, ambiguous, and open to interpretation. They also require the person to be knowingly willing to hand over their soul, there is no ambiguity there. The person cannot be charmed, dominated or tricked into it, they must be aware and willing, at least according to the fiendish codex II, likely to prevent "gotcha!" situations which would just suck for players. The cost of a contract to bring back someone from the dead is almost definitely going to cost someone their soul outright, let alone 2 people. Such a thing is also probably out of the capability of 2 lesser devils, meaning they would need to call in one of their superiors to actually fulfill the contract on their behalf, likely using their summon baatezu ability to notify their superiors.

That said, the devils, after having learned a thing or two about the duskblade, could probably convince her that her soul is already doomed to the lower planes, though likely the abyss instead of Baator. This deal would serve them both, save the duskblade from an eternity of being torn apart by demons, instead giving her a chance for advancement in baator, and also letting her repent for her party by bringing the two of them back.

[FocusWolf413]

I guess I should do this:

Red Fel, Red Fel, Red Fel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?80567-Red-Fel).

[Larrx]

Have the devils work together on this. Devil A approaches the Duskblade to make the offer. He gives him a scroll of resurrection that is specifically tuned to one of the two dead characters - whichever is the 'nicer' of the two. It will only work on this one person and only if used in the next 24 hours. This scroll is just given, with no strings attached. But Devil A clearly has a second scroll in his hand. When the Duskblade asks about this Devil A states that it is the same as the other but tuned to the second character. However, while the first one is free the second one requires a contract - specifying two future favors to be named at a later date. The Duskblade is given the chance to accept or refuse at this point.

If the Duskblade does not accept then Devil B will appear. Devil B's appearance will be quite different however - something angelic in nature as much as possible. Devil B will step in and accuse Devil A of trying to cheat the poor Duskblade. Devil B will explain that the first scroll is a resurrection for a character who is heading to a happy afterlife, and Devil A wants him resurrected so that the infernal powers will have another chance to corrupt him and possibly claim his soul before he dies. Devil B will go on to explain the reason the second scroll has a price attached is because that character is heading for a horrible afterlife of pain and eternal suffering, something Devil A doesn't want to undo. Devil B will actually try to convince the Duskblade to leave both scrolls - don't resurrect the first character because he has earned his reward and don't make any deals for the second because that would probably result in both the Duskblade and the second character eventually falling.

Devil A will reiterate that the first scroll was given without cost or any expectation of repayment. It is the Duskblade's to do with as he pleases. As for the second, Devil A will lower the price to a single favor. He will even promise that the favor requested will not be something that automatically condemns the Duskblade's soul. Devil B will make one last entreaty to leave the deal alone. He will state that while the Duskblade's failures so far have not given him much chance for redemption, there is still a very small chance for hope and he should not throw this away for the second character who after all had his chance to prove himself in life.

Honestly, hearing that the first scroll was given free and clear should make it easy enough for him to use it. As for the second, if hearing from a 'celestial being' that the character in question is suffering eternally isn't enough to convince him to make the deal I don't know what would.

Brilliant. Do this.

[Telonius]

The best devilish contracts are the ones that give the devil what they want, regardless. The idea is that the character, not the contract, is the real source of the damnation. Having the piece of paper just makes the signer feel like the leash is off. So, you find a different family that's in a similar situation - somebody they love just died - preferably a nice family that the PCs have never heard of. (Extra bonus points if they have an attractive family member of marriageable age that one of the devils subtly directs towards the party). Trade them a scroll for their soul (or whatever price you can get), magically sealed to open a day later.

Then, the "mean" devil goes back to the real target. Tell them you know where they can find a scroll like that. Point them in the direction of the nice family's house. Wait for the fallout. Whether or not they actually kill someone to get the scroll, have the "mean" devil meet them again and makes sure they've actually used the scroll. But then, the "nice" devil shows up. "Nice" pretends to be horrified - he knows that the scroll was going to be used to resurrect little Timmy!

Well, that's problems. The devils see the players are in a tough spot, though - so they offer them a deal. They won't tell anyone what happened. But, there will be a price... :sabine:

[Red Fel]

I guess I should do this:

Red Fel, Red Fel, Red Fel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?80567-Red-Fel).

http://orig02.deviantart.net/c3f1/f/2012/331/f/c/popo__ahahahaha__by_acerenios-d5mea2a.gif

Hiiiii.

So, dealing with Devils, hmm? Sounds like fun, deal me in.

First off, your Devils come across as almost bumbling. They seem to come across her almost entirely by chance. You describe them as getting "kicked out" at some point.

No, no, my friend. That's what we call a charade. Everything they do is choreographed. They're in the bar getting wasted - or rather, pretending to get wasted - in order to lure out desperate or despairing souls. They deliberately allow themselves to be kicked out when they see someone who looks sympathetic, knowing it will lure them out in turn. Go with that angle.

I like BowStreetRunner's suggestion as to how they operate. Dealing with Devils is a lot like - and here, particularly appropriately - dealing with drug pushers. First one is free - it establishes trust and a status quo relationship. More importantly, leave us not forget 3.X's objective morality rules - dealing with Evil Outsiders is explicitly Evil. If the PC does a single deal with them, even a freebie, they've got her. So in for a penny, in for a pound.

Even so, nobody says you have to reveal them as Devils at this time. They can simply demand a favor in exchange for the second scroll. Use some ambiance to make it clear this isn't just a run-of-the-mill back-alley exchange. Maybe add a reminder to the end, "If you back out, we will know. And you will belong to us." Glance at the scroll. "So will your little friend."

As for the price, I love the idea of favors. I've spoken of them at length (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16961830&postcount=18) previously. Three favorites of mine:

1. The price is as follows: "At some point in the next year, I will come to you. When I do, you will simply sit. That's all. For five minutes, I just want you to sit there. If I don't do this within the next year, you have no further obligations." Sitting seems innocent. Fast-forward nine months. The party is in the House of Nobles, which is now voting on a proposal to raise an army to fight against the invading devil-worshipping hordes from the North. The Speaker announces, "All in favor, please rise." The PC(s) in question feel a tap on the shoulder. "Please remain seated," whispers the deal-maker, "I'm calling in my favor." The vote fails, and the Northerners invade.

2. "See this coin?" The devil takes out a rather distinctive gold coin. "I'm very fond of it. My price is this. If I ever drop it someplace, you must pick it up for me. That's all. If you see it, pick it up." Fast-forward. The party is in an ancient temple of sealed evil. The final seal can only be broken by the touch of a noble warrior. The PCs read the inscriptions, and realize that they're safe; as long as they don't touch the seal, the evil within can never be released. They turn to leave - but one sees a gold coin resting on the seal. A very distinctive gold coin. And he knows what he has to do.

3. "You know," says the deal-maker, "I'm a reasonable fellow. I like to know with whom I'm dealing. So here's my price. Someday, I'm going to ask you for your name. Calm down, I'm not going to steal it or anything. I just want you to remind me, in a loud, clear voice. When I ask you, say your name, loud and clear." Fast-forward. The party has infiltrated some sort of ceremony, where either (a) a sacrifice will be given, or (b) a vessel will be chosen to receive some terrible, corrupting power. The master of ceremonies then intones, "And who is the one who has been chosen for this task?" Suddenly, the PC hears a voice. "I like to know with whom I'm dealing. Why don't you remind me; what's your name?"

If you can predict general events in the future - major events where player conduct is important - doing something like this is just wickedly delicious. Don't be vague, be quite specific - but be innocuous.

And, of course, there's the cost of reneging on the deal - obviously, the PC is immediately forfeit. But so, too, is the benefit of the bargain - namely, the raised ally. To add insult to injury, tell the PC that, before they kill her, she has to choose which of the two allies that were raised will be coming with her - and if she can't choose, all three of them are forfeit. It's a cruel twist of the knife, but would you expect anything less from Devils?

As an aside, try not to dedicate too much time to her scene. It's not fair to the other players, no matter how awesome it will be in the long run. If you have a co-DM, consider having him/her take the PC's player into another room to discuss the matter. This, in turn, will make the reveal ("Yeah, I sort of sold a favor to Devils for these scrolls") much more horrifying.

[Crake]

http://orig02.deviantart.net/c3f1/f/2012/331/f/c/popo__ahahahaha__by_acerenios-d5mea2a.gif

Hiiiii.

So, dealing with Devils, hmm? Sounds like fun, deal me in.

First off, your Devils come across as almost bumbling. They seem to come across her almost entirely by chance. You describe them as getting "kicked out" at some point.

No, no, my friend. That's what we call a charade. Everything they do is choreographed. They're in the bar getting wasted - or rather, pretending to get wasted - in order to lure out desperate or despairing souls. They deliberately allow themselves to be kicked out when they see someone who looks sympathetic, knowing it will lure them out in turn. Go with that angle.

I like BowStreetRunner's suggestion as to how they operate. Dealing with Devils is a lot like - and here, particularly appropriately - dealing with drug pushers. First one is free - it establishes trust and a status quo relationship. More importantly, leave us not forget 3.X's objective morality rules - dealing with Evil Outsiders is explicitly Evil. If the PC does a single deal with them, even a freebie, they've got her. So in for a penny, in for a pound.

Even so, nobody says you have to reveal them as Devils at this time. They can simply demand a favor in exchange for the second scroll. Use some ambiance to make it clear this isn't just a run-of-the-mill back-alley exchange. Maybe add a reminder to the end, "If you back out, we will know. And you will belong to us." Glance at the scroll. "So will your little friend."

As for the price, I love the idea of favors. I've spoken of them at length (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16961830&postcount=18) previously. Three favorites of mine:


If you can predict general events in the future - major events where player conduct is important - doing something like this is just wickedly delicious. Don't be vague, be quite specific - but be innocuous.

And, of course, there's the cost of reneging on the deal - obviously, the PC is immediately forfeit. But so, too, is the benefit of the bargain - namely, the raised ally. To add insult to injury, tell the PC that, before they kill her, she has to choose which of the two allies that were raised will be coming with her - and if she can't choose, all three of them are forfeit. It's a cruel twist of the knife, but would you expect anything less from Devils?

As an aside, try not to dedicate too much time to her scene. It's not fair to the other players, no matter how awesome it will be in the long run. If you have a co-DM, consider having him/her take the PC's player into another room to discuss the matter. This, in turn, will make the reveal ("Yeah, I sort of sold a favor to Devils for these scrolls") much more horrifying.

Oh that's right, I forgot that in forgotten realms, bringing back the dead is just a sunday walk in the park, nevermind the 2 5th level spells and the 10,000gp in material components waived, it's just a few favours, and not worth someone's soul.

I suppose I feel a little differently because in my campaign setting, bringing people back from the dead is practically unheard of among the common populace, and even among high level characters it's a kind of "if you can do it, sure, but good luck finding an NPC for it" thing.

[BowStreetRunner]

Oh that's right, I forgot that in forgotten realms, bringing back the dead is just a sunday walk in the park, nevermind the 2 5th level spells and the 10,000gp in material components waived, it's just a few favours, and not worth someone's soul.

I suppose I feel a little differently because in my campaign setting, bringing people back from the dead is practically unheard of among the common populace, and even among high level characters it's a kind of "if you can do it, sure, but good luck finding an NPC for it" thing.

If you think Forgotten Realms makes bringing back the dead easy, you should read the Vlad Taltos series by Stephen Brust. My understanding is the setting was actually based on a D&D campaign the author ran. When you hire an assassin in his world you need to specify whether you want the target 'dead' or 'permanently dead'. People actually have something like insurance policies with the local church - which probably explains why it is so cheap. (Insurance distributes the cost among all the policyholders and pricing assumes the majority of policyholders will never need to collect during the term of the policy.)

[Daddison]

Thanks everyone. I appreciate all of the input.

Armed as such, I proceed forth.

[Warrnan]

No clerics in the untamed wilds? Whatever shall we do?? Perhaps look around for a druid to reincarnate. You could even go NE druid if you wanted to keep up the "evil deal" story line.

[Daddison]

No clerics in the untamed wilds? Whatever shall we do?? Perhaps look around for a druid to reincarnate. You could even go NE druid if you wanted to keep up the "evil deal" story line.

I have introduced a Druid, yes. But she's not in a position, story wise, to do it.

[Aleolus]

Or you could use a separate being, rather than a Devil. Make up a person who has the power to get anything done (such as giving them an at-will Wish ability with no xp cost, but they have to get something comparable in exchange). I have one I based off Rumplestiltzkin from Once Upon a Time.