Dark campaign ideas.

[Spacehamster]

So probably quite a while until its my turn to be DM but when it is I want to create a dark and grim campaign, were thinking it to be set in a major metropolis where a cult of mixed races have started worshipping a powerful demon(probably a Balor aiming at becoming a demon lord). The cult is kidnapping and eating infants all over the city and in the process the infants souls gets absorbed into the demon, with enough souls he will be able to step into the material plane to feed even more.

The cult consists of dark clerics, oathbreakers, bruisers(fodder) and assassins, mostly of human, elf/half elf descent and a bunch of elite gnolls that have been tricked by the demon into believing they work for the Gnoll demon lord. After the infants are partially eaten and their souls absorbed they get raised as baby zombies functioning as fodder and also spreading fear and repulsion.

So what do you guys think of the general idea of the campaign and do you maybe have any bright(dark) ideas that I can add to the story?

[Ninja_Prawn]

Ideas...

Setting the scene. In the dark grimness of your fictional past, goodly heroes can't win. Ever. Make sure that the history and lore of the setting emphasises how white knights always fail. Maybe even have the players witness a brave hero getting cut down by dishonourable scrubs.

Two demons are worse than one. So, your main plot is about this demon cult. Why not throw in a - completely unrelated - demon invasion as well? Or have a devil NPC who is on the party's side despite being evil... except actually it's a demon pretending to be a devil!

Savage Souls. I notice you included some gnolls. Yeenoghu (the gnoll demon-god) has human followers as well - who are a bunch of utterly psychotic fanatics. They torture people for fun, leaving them insensible husks. Very grim, much dark.

[Sigreid]

So probably quite a while until its my turn to be DM but when it is I want to create a dark and grim campaign, were thinking it to be set in a major metropolis where a cult of mixed races have started worshipping a powerful demon(probably a Balor aiming at becoming a demon lord). The cult is kidnapping and eating infants all over the city and in the process the infants souls gets absorbed into the demon, with enough souls he will be able to step into the material plane to feed even more.

The cult consists of dark clerics, oathbreakers, bruisers(fodder) and assassins, mostly of human, elf/half elf descent and a bunch of elite gnolls that have been tricked by the demon into believing they work for the Gnoll demon lord. After the infants are partially eaten and their souls absorbed they get raised as baby zombies functioning as fodder and also spreading fear and repulsion.

So what do you guys think of the general idea of the campaign and do you maybe have any bright(dark) ideas that I can add to the story?

First, disturbingly awesome. What you need is for some of the city's elite to be leading the cult all secret society like, including one or more of the party's sponsors.

[TopCheese]

Actually you could have the players team up with devils, demons, and Angels (whatever type) who don't want this demon in power.

They may be a sub committee of outsiders who work together for their own good. The players can take orders from any and each will try to play the PCs off the others but as long as *demon dude* doesn't become a Lord then they all win (depending on actions of PCs one or two may win more than the others or none of them come out happy).

Edit

Example of devil and Angel working together would be Good Omens.

[MrStabby]

Generate a theme for the Demon - Orcus has Necromancy so maybe pick something like that. Maybe illusions or transmutation? Then give him some warlocks (or others with warlock levels) that derive power from him (and have spells focussed on that school)?

[Sigreid]

Actually you could have the players team up with devils, demons, and Angels (whatever type) who don't want this demon in power.

They may be a sub committee of outsiders who work together for their own good. The players can take orders from any and each will try to play the PCs off the others but as long as *demon dude* doesn't become a Lord then they all win (depending on actions of PCs one or two may win more than the others or none of them come out happy).

Edit

Example of devil and Angel working together would be Good Omens.

I personally wouldn't go this route preferring that the party feel desperate and out gunned.

[Gracht Grabmaw]

What's so special about babies that the demon specifically wants them as his fodder? If you can flesh that out, maybe center the whole cult around parenthood and parental fears (your babies will never grow up and will never die so you never have to be afraid of losing them) you could really make something out of that.

[TopCheese]

I personally wouldn't go this route preferring that the party feel desperate and out gunned.

That's typically where PCs are, just die to the nature of the game and then being PCs.

[Sigreid]

What's so special about babies that the demon specifically wants them as his fodder? If you can flesh that out, maybe center the whole cult around parenthood and parental fears (your babies will never grow up and will never die so you never have to be afraid of losing them) you could really make something out of that.

Oooh, as the babies are absorbed their little recognizable faces and hands periodically push out of the demon's flesh.

[TopCheese]

Oooh, as the babies are absorbed their little recognizable faces and hands periodically push out of the demon's flesh.

Nice visual but mechanically...

If the demon has a baby ingested but not digested yet, the demon gains certain special abilities versus the type of creature that the baby is. When enough babies are digested the demon can possess anyone of that race (BA to touch and teleport to another creature of that race or another race that has been digested enough).

[Spacehamster]

Oooh, as the babies are absorbed their little recognizable faces and hands periodically push out of the demon's flesh.

Were also thinking one of the cult wizards would craft a flesh golem like guardian out of the wee babies bodies.

[Spacehamster]

The balors name will be Orogztygh the puritid and his focus is necromancy, undeath and poison.
He is a servant of the gnoll demon lord that I always forget the name of and he is secretly working on overthrowing him and taking his place.

He wants the souls of infants cause they are the most pure and tasty to him plus he revels in the pain it causes the parents of the lost offspring.

[Sigreid]

Were also thinking one of the cult wizards would craft a flesh golem like guardian out of the wee babies bodies.

I'm liking this campaign idea. Perhaps the demon gets 2 hp for 3 achieve baby absorbed. A new resistance for each 20. Something like that.

[TopCheese]

The balors name will be Orogztygh the puritid and his focus is necromancy, undeath and poison.
He is a servant of the gnoll demon lord that I always forget the name of and he is secretly working on overthrowing him and taking his place.

He wants the souls of infants cause they are the most pure and tasty to him plus he revels in the pain it causes the parents of the lost offspring.

Meh.

Sounds like every other typical necromancer Lolevil character.

[Sigreid]

I think he should give toys to children...cursed toys like a demonic Santa.

[Spacehamster]

I'm liking this campaign idea. Perhaps the demon gets 2 hp for 3 achieve baby absorbed. A new resistance for each 20. Something like that.

Thinking it to start in a pub(gasp that never happens!!!) with our heroes just heading through the city taking a break in the pub when a horde of zombified babies crash through the cellar entence of the bar and starts eating patrons. Will be a glorious pub brawl with drunks, heroes, a guard or two and a horde of rotting babies. :D

[BoutsofInsanity]

What are your objectives and your players objectives. Because they need to line up. If good can't win ever, count me out, I don't want to play.

For me, the whole point of playing in a Dark campaign is the opportunity to make a difference. If I can't make a difference, Ill just go back to my real life. If you are telling a gritty, dark story for yourself, but your players want to be heroes, let them be heroes. Futility breeds negative attitudes and no one wants that mindset going into a game.

Make it evil, make it dark, make the villains, corrupt caricatures and mirrored reflections of my Paladin. Gothic with motivations that I relate too, and had a different event happened, I might be the villain instead of the hero. BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE, LET ME BE A HERO.

The whole, sacrificial, it was all for nought works in movies, kind of, works in books, kind of. But for the most part, when I want to escape my reality of impotent ability, I don't want to escape into a world with impotentness. I want to escape where I get to blow up the Deathstar, where I save people, or go out in a sacrificial last stand to slay the demon on my last breath.

D&D is not a platform for the most part to tell an artistic story where the heroes lose in an example analogous to real life where it's a social and political commentary on the modern 21st century. This isn't your platform for your artistic story to take center stage.

Your friends are there to drink beer, throw some dice, have some sort of cathartic experience with people you trust and like where you escape the mundane realities of the world. As such, don't make them impotent, where good can't win, that's not fun for an extended campaign. It might work for a short, few shot, but it doesn't for a longer game.


Ill wait a few posts to talk about making things dark in a mature way, rather then a 14 year old edgy way like the 90's.

[Ninja_Prawn]

the gnoll demon lord that I always forget the name of

You really do, huh? I named it literally 10 posts ago...


I think he should give toys to children...cursed toys like a demonic Santa.

YES! And you should use Submortimer's homebrewed matryoshka (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?428019-Race-The-Matryoshka) races! A quest to round up all the little cursed bisques (http://iplehouse.com/home/data/item/1584844372_l1) would be awesome!


If good can't win ever, count me out, I don't want to play.

If this is aimed at me, you've completely missed the point of what I was saying. I meant that the players should see a stereotypical goodly hero fail as part of the scene-setting, to reinforce the themes of the setting. I never said anything about forcing the PCs to fail or making them impotent. That's the opposite of everything D&D is about and I'm frankly insulted that you would suggest I believe that.

[Joe the Rat]

Giving toys to the rotten kids, stealing the good ones for eatin'. Like an inverted Santa-Krampus.

If I might make a modest proposal, you can involve the rulership or the elite of the city being complacent, if not secretly cooperative with the cult (but not actual members) because the cultists are targeting poorer families, and clearly there are too many of these beggars and filthy peasants (and the occasional tradesman, but nobody important). It's just thinning out the surplus population.

Adds a bit of desperation. The city watch doesn't know. Or they do know, but don't care, or they do know, and might care, but are under orders not to interfere.

If you've got the literary references, the filthy overcrowded streets can add a lot to your atmosphere. Almost everyone is poor and desperate. The quality of food is lacking (a bit of indigestable potato), and the drink is weak, or has an odd flavor. Lots of fog, and too much smoke from an unnaturally chilly season. Grimy windows, common illness, and shiny happy wealthy folk in their soot-stained mansions.

This isn't just atmosphere, this is the regional effects of the demon becoming empowered. Everything is becoming fouled, poisoned. It's not a natural cold - it's not cold. It's like a city-wide chill touch. If you want to play with a little rage of demonism, you take the Madness of Desperation. You are more willing to do horrible things, or take greater and foolish risks, or offer or accept awful deals, simply so you can have that one thing you think you need. As the abductions and feedings continue, it gets worse.

[Sigreid]

I think an important thing you're missing is what do the cultists get out of it (or think they get).

[TopCheese]

I think an important thing you're missing is what do the cultists get out of it (or think they get).

I don't think you become a cultist of this dude if you are prone to thinking that far ahead.

Just saying.

[Sigreid]

I don't think you become a cultist of this dude if you are prone to thinking that far ahead.

Just saying.

Most cultists are in it for a reason, just not a well thought out one.

[TopCheese]

Most cultists are in it for a reason, just not a well thought out one.

One they probably assume and never bring up again.

Hey join our cult, you will be accepted and grow in power!

You had me at our!

Especially since cults in the D&D world are everywhere, they probably heard of another cult and figure the new cult will give them XYZ. Probably don't even need fine print. The type of people that Devils almost feel as bad for screwing over.

[Sigreid]

One they probably assume and never bring up again.

Hey join our cult, you will be accepted and grow in power!

You had me at our!

Especially since cults in the D&D world are everywhere, they probably heard of another cult and figure the new cult will give them XYZ. Probably don't even need fine print. The type of people that Devils almost feel as bad for screwing over.

Defining the sales pitch, even if the players never hear it helps define the cult and hopefully make it a little less cartoonish.

[Anonymouswizard]

The balors name will be Orogztygh the puritid and his focus is necromancy, undeath and poison.
He is a servant of the gnoll demon lord that I always forget the name of and he is secretly working on overthrowing him and taking his place.

He wants the souls of infants cause they are the most pure and tasty to him plus he revels in the pain it causes the parents of the lost offspring.

I agree he sounds lame. How about Xryz, master of forms, demon of shape shifting and transmutation. Right now his powers only work on himself and inanimate objects, but after enough souls he begins to 'bless' his followers with useful but hidable mutations.

Or _____, lord of the unseen. He can make anything disappear, even to the most powerful magic.

Or a master of poisons. If it exists he can cause it to decay. Retroactively. His poisons only affect what he wants.


For non demon lord ideas, a lot of poverty and a lot of corruption that can't be solved without a lot of work because it is inherent to the situation the city is in globally.

[Sigreid]

Lord of serpents? Some of the children are given fangs, turned into soulless, savage monsters. When he becomes strong enough the faithful will become serpent blessed (yaun ti? )

[Spojaz]

Exploiting the "childish" fears that nobody has entirely gotten over is always good, especially when children are a focus of the campaign. Fear of strangers, darkness, water, sleep, loud noises, being alone, etc. Power your evil with those fears.

My current campaign has some interesting atmosphere you could use. Because of a powerful demon they don't know about yet, being in total darkness consistently hurts you, silently eats you. Seal an animal in a dark room, ignore its screams, go back in an hour and retrieve the clean, dry bones. It has gotten so that they are more scared of the lights going out than any monster I can throw at them.

[INDYSTAR188]

Were also thinking one of the cult wizards would craft a flesh golem like guardian out of the wee babies bodies.

This monster must be stopped, where can my PC sign up for the quest?

[Spacehamster]

Well illusions and making things dissapear aint that dark and gritty tho so ill
stick with rot, necromancy and eating babies. ;)

Never said anything about that the PC´s would not get to be heroes,
they will be they shiny stereotypical light in the darkness to deliver the
city from evil. :)

[Joe the Rat]

Defining the sales pitch, even if the players never hear it helps define the cult and hopefully make it a little less cartoonish.Power is usually a selling point. Gain wealth, a group of comrades, and actual power if you work hard enough / sacrifice enough / recruit enough members. Power doesn't really trickle down that far, but you sell them on the potential of it. It's a lot like a pyramid scheme.

Or maybe you're selling A Better World. Help us, and the Right People take over the world, which means us, or those who serve Wossname the Indeterminate, Demon Lord of Placeholders. Right wrongs, or perceived wrongs, or get a little petty revenge. Or not be at the front of the line when it comes time for soul harvesting (Join us, we kill you last). You may have some that are just that bent: Death and suffering would be a good thing for the world.

But maybe you're not caught up in the ideals. The 9-to-5 cultists. Your rank-and-file may have some folks who came in for the punch and pie, or a little money, or there's not much going on, and this is a chance to get out, or all the cool kids are doing it. Having a few jobbers in the bottom-tier can lead to some serious questions: What would make someone work for a group intent on bringing about suffering and madness and anatomically correct king cakes for a paycheck? Does he expect them to fail, but take advantage of the healthcare in the meantime?

Plus there's always good old-fashioned brainwashing. And we're talking about Demon Cults. The recruiting pitch for the fanatics may be as varied as teh fanatics themselves. I mean, demons are known for lying.

[Anonymouswizard]

Well illusions and making things dissapear aint that dark and gritty tho so ill
stick with rot, necromancy and eating babies. ;)

Rot isn't gritty, it's just a natural part of several parts of lifestyle. You might as well say that rot is good because it causes more life to come into being and can actually have beneficial events for an environment.
Necromancy isn't gritty. I might be an illegal use of resources or disrespectful to the dead, but the creation of a zombie is a morally neutral act, and it's only the use of the undead that could push it into dark and gritty, at which point we are getting into dark and gritty character traits, not powers.
Eating babies isn't dark and gritty, it's shock horror. For darker, try a demon that makes the place it lives worse. As in it moves into a normal street, which suddenly becomes a soap opera but without any attempt to make it look realistic. For grittier, the horrors of war. Eating babies can be a part of dark and gritty, but it is not dark and gritty in and of itself.

It's obvious how these three can be used to make something dark and gritty, and I agree that illusions are more suited to surreal horror than dark and gritty, but any powerset can be made dark and gritty if you try hard enough (too tired to think of specific examples though). 'Dark and Gritty' is a tone, which can actually be served by not going into stereotypical 'evil' powersets.

Which is more terrifying, a cultist who can rot your arm off, or a cultist who is hunting you down, revived by his master every time he is closer to death. Imagine a city where, because a demon of healing resides there, the members of this one cult never die, and they slowly encompass more and more of the population, able to sacrifice more and more babies to their demonic lord.


Never said anything about that the PC´s would not get to be heroes,
they will be they shiny stereotypical light in the darkness to deliver the
city from evil. :)

How is this a dark and gritty campaign?

To me a dark and gritty campaign is where the PCs seem to face impossible odds. They fight tooth and nail. They do not bring a shiny light into the darkness, but a torch.

And then another torch.

The world is not saved by heroes saving the city from evil by being heroes, but by heroes working bit by bit until the world ends up a better place.

[napoleon_in_rag]

So what do you guys think of the general idea of the campaign and do you maybe have any bright(dark) ideas that I can add to the story?

I guess one question I would ask is what does the average level 0 NPC gain out of joining the cult? Extra life? Can the demon grant boons? Money? Power? I feel that there would need to be some tangible benefit for your average sane person, even if they are Evil, to start eating babies. Unless they are all insane.

Secondly. People notice when babies start disappearing. Even in a big city, a few Babies disappearing without a trace would cause some alarms to be raised.

My suggestion is you need some sort of disaster as a back drop for the campaign that is a source of fear for the people. I would use a plague, a contagious, black death spreading across the city. This sickness would be immune to Cure Disease spells cast by the existing religions.I could see people turning to a cult like you describe in that scenario if it cured the disease. The members would justify the sacrifice of a baby l to save everyone else in their family. And the disappearing babies could be explained away by the plague.

Of course, the cult leaders would actually be behind the plague....

[DrKerosene]

I think the "baby-eating" could be explained as a personal quirk of the Fiend. The souls do get absorbed, but this incarnate being of Evil has some alien preferences that mere mortals won't properly understand.

At some point you could DM-Fiat the party being ambushed in a large forest by Memory Stealers and failing their saves, but tell the Players something else at the time. I would suggest lying about how the game is going to be a horror one-shot where they have to figure out who they are, and see who survives (using their own PCs). Imply, or state, that you will try to kill them all, or whatever will get them in the mindset of paranoia.

I would transplant House of 1,000 Corpses/Hostel, hidden in the forest too, with a beacon of some kind. Also, some kind of huge Circle Against E/G & Memory Stealers. Escapees, or new people, are likely to forget what's going on and wander back to the beacon, sooner or later.

When the party wakes-up, have them roll for trinkets, and otherwise try to justify knowing anything about their characters with in-game logic. The have them encounter fleshy monstrosities (later revealed to probably have been chimeric human-centipede type things). Silent Hill does good flesh creatures. Skinless things, screaming in agony and confusion, sewn-together with unnatural anatomy, barrelling through the woods should set a mood.

If the PCs get out of your SAW-like dungeon/fortress/fairyland/etc, then reveal any slain creatures were probably victims who could have been helped by a mid-level Cleric. I would assume this is the "liquid-pain-extraction" or "weird-experimentation" site/section of the cult, kept hidden in a more obscure location (because of the Memory Stealers). Which the Party had stumbled upon, or came searching for intentionally.

[napoleon_in_rag]

I think the "baby-eating" could be explained as a personal quirk of the Fiend. The souls do get absorbed, but this incarnate being of Evil has some alien preferences that mere mortals won't properly understand.



My question isn't about why the demon would eat a baby but what would motivate your typical person to join a cult that involves eating babies. That is an act that goes way beyond your normal Faustian contract. And if the answer is just "Because they are EVIL", it means that enough thought isn't being put into the campaign.

[Ceder]

I have two suggestions for motivation centered around youth
One is to juxtapose the youth of the victims with an aged cult. They eat babies to stay forever young. This would ean more towards a corrupt rich elite feel for the cult.
The second one, which is less of a stereotype, is a peter-pan style cult of children who don't want to grow up and prey on the even weaker babies. They might require powers to be more of a threat tho.

[DrKerosene]

My question isn't about why the demon would eat a baby but what would motivate your typical person to join a cult that involves eating babies. That is an act that goes way beyond your normal Faustian contract. And if the answer is just "Because they are EVIL", it means that enough thought isn't being put into the campaign.[blue text]It is a shame that magical/alien/imaginary beings of pure Evil do not have some way to draw/find people who are already predisposed to evil tendencies, even as the BBEG[/blue text]. I think "because they are Evil" can be a valid explanation, on occasion. More, or less, frequently depending on how much thought a given group of Players actually puts into anything. I was actually hand-waiving the Fiend's explanation as being whatever the DM decides, since I didn't feel the need to add my drop to the bucket there, and I was focusng my post on the last bit
...and do you maybe have any bright(dark) ideas that I can add to the story? But I'll respond to you, since you responded to me.

How might someone become a cultist? If I was trying to do this, with deception and a similar method to how drug-pushers get new clients, with a free "taste" without (up-front) cost. This will probably need many false fronts for the same cult.

Why would they stay a cultist? I would probably combine the "death sentence" idea of Lyrium withdrawal from Dragon Age, and the Obeisances/psychopathy from Darker Than Black. It's a Fiend, tricking people is usually expected, and if each "taste" does the equivalent of forcing a save vs. Taint/Corruption, then you will have very few neutral, or good, long-term cultists. Sure, some NPCs will probably never go back for a second "taste", or will refuse when told to eat babies, but that would be a death sentence to anyone who didn't stick with the cult. NPCs can't complain about being "rail-roaded", but I'm sure there should be a Cleric spell, or something, to cure/save someone from the death sentence caused by Taint/Corruption.