Am I calculating this correctly?

[Edgerunner]

OK theorycrafting here.

Lets say I take this character to lvl 10
Started out Fighter and took 2 lvls for the saves.
BM2/Assassin3/Hunter5 and he is an Archer.

When I get a sneak attack and consider I am hitting a target that has already taken damage.
These are all the things I have at my disposal to employ.
Action Surge. Get 2 attacks
Sneak Attack. Auto Crit on both attacks 2d6 so everything that comes next is doubled
Colossus Slayer. 1d8 on both attacks
Hunter's Mark. 1d6 on both attacks
Sharpshooter. -5/+10 on both attacks
Damage from the Arrow

Is this correct or am I missing something?

Next question. Do I get all those bonuses (except for Action surge) on my Ranger's Extra Attack for lvl 5 as well?

and after ALL of this I get to slip back into cover and set up for another sneak attack next round?

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

Both sneak attack and colossus slayer are once per turn, so would only apply to the first attack you land.
Yes you roll all the damage dice twice when you crit. Sharpshooter damage is not doubled, since it's not a die.
With extra attack and action surge, you can attack 4 times, and a 5th time if you have a bonus action attack.

[HoarsHalberd]

OK theorycrafting here.

Lets say I take this character to lvl 10
Started out Fighter and took 2 lvls for the saves.
BM2/Assassin3/Hunter5 and he is an Archer.

When I get a sneak attack and consider I am hitting a target that has already taken damage.
These are all the things I have at my disposal to employ.
Action Surge. Get 2 attacks
Sneak Attack. Auto Crit on both attacks 2d6 so everything that comes next is doubled
Colossus Slayer. 1d8 on both attacks
Hunter's Mark. 1d6 on both attacks
Sharpshooter. -5/+10 on both attacks
Damage from the Arrow

Is this correct or am I missing something?

Next question. Do I get all those bonuses (except for Action surge) on my Ranger's Extra Attack for lvl 5 as well?

and after ALL of this I get to slip back into cover and set up for another sneak attack next round?

You get the sneak attack next round with your bonus action hide but you can't get the autocrit again.

[TopCheese]

OK theorycrafting here.

Lets say I take this character to lvl 10
Started out Fighter and took 2 lvls for the saves.
BM2/Assassin3/Hunter5 and he is an Archer.

When I get a sneak attack and consider I am hitting a target that has already taken damage.
These are all the things I have at my disposal to employ.
Action Surge. Get 2 attacks
Sneak Attack. Auto Crit on both attacks 2d6 so everything that comes next is doubled
Colossus Slayer. 1d8 on both attacks
Hunter's Mark. 1d6 on both attacks
Sharpshooter. -5/+10 on both attacks
Damage from the Arrow

Is this correct or am I missing something?

Next question. Do I get all those bonuses (except for Action surge) on my Ranger's Extra Attack for lvl 5 as well?

and after ALL of this I get to slip back into cover and set up for another sneak attack next round?

Many of these things are 1/turn.

The only thing you would get again wouldnbebthe +10.from sharpshooter and your weapon damage from the extra attack. Oh and the auto crit I believe.

Action Surge is a free action that is separate and it's own thing.

Sneak attack, coloasus slayer, and hunters Mark is 1/turn.

[Malifice]

Also your ability to re enter hiding after blowing your hiding spot is debatable. Some DMs allow it, some (like me) won't.

You only get auto crit during surpise rounds. Not when attacking from hiding after the first round.

Ditto what peeps have said about sneak attack and hunters mark. 1/ turn.

[Edgerunner]

Both sneak attack and colossus slayer are once per turn, so would only apply to the first attack you land.
Yes you roll all the damage dice twice when you crit. Sharpshooter damage is not doubled, since it's not a die.
With extra attack and action surge, you can attack 4 times, and a 5th time if you have a bonus action attack.

So Action Surge + Extra Attack = 4 attacks?

OK so in this situation I would actually get 4 attacks then but ONLY the first hit of the 4 attacks gets CRIT and Clossus Slayer?
OR do all 4 attacks get CRIT but only the first gets Colossus Slayer?

@TopCheese
If I read it correctly Hunter's Mark (Ranger Spell) is used every hit as long as concentration isn't interrupted.

[TopCheese]

So Action Surge + Extra Attack = 4 attacks?

OK so in this situation I would actually get 4 attacks then but ONLY the first hit of the 4 attacks gets CRIT and Clossus Slayer?

@TopCheese
If I read it correctly Hunter's Mark (Ranger Spell) is used every hit as long as concentration isn't interrupted.

Yeah, just looked into it, hunter's mark isn't 1/turn.

[HoarsHalberd]

Also your ability to re enter hiding after blowing your hiding spot is debatable. Some DMs allow it, some (like me) won't.

You only get auto crit during surpise rounds. Not when attacking from hiding after the first round.

Ditto what peeps have said about sneak attack and hunters mark. 1/ turn.

No idea where you're getting the Hunter's mark stuff from. "Until the spell ends, you deal an extra 1d6 damage to the target whenever
you hit it with a weapon attack," But you are right on the sneak attack, assumed he knew that though.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

OR do all 4 attacks get CRIT but only the first gets Colossus Slayer?

Yes, they all crit and only the first hit gets Sneak attack and Colossus Slayer. Double all the dice, so your weapon die and and hunter's mark die get doubled, as well as the SA and CS dice on the first hit.

[Malifice]

No idea where you're getting the Hunter's mark stuff from. "Until the spell ends, you deal an extra 1d6 damage to the target whenever
you hit it with a weapon attack," But you are right on the sneak attack, assumed he knew that though.

Yeah. Was thinking of colossus slayer. My bad.

OP. Yes. With action surge, sneak attack 2d6, hunters mark, assasinate, colossus slayer and marksman, and you surprising an enemy (assuming longbow and dex 18):

Bonus action (cast hunters mark)

Use the Attack action (2 attacks). Action surge to take the attack action again (2 more attacks)

Deal (2d8 from bow, 4d6 sneak attack, 2d6 hunters mark) plus 10 from sharpshooter plus Dex with 1st attack.

Deal (2d8 from bow, 2d8 from colossus slayer, 2d6 from hunters mark) plus 10 from sharpshooter and Dex with attacks 2-4.

You can't hide as you don't have a bonus action (you used it to cast hunters mark) even if you have a super permissive DM who allows hiding every round no matter what.

[Edgerunner]

So Action Surge + Extra Attack = 4 attacks?

OK so in this situation I would actually get 4 attacks then but ONLY the first hit of the 4 attacks gets CRIT and Clossus Slayer?
OR do all 4 attacks get CRIT but only the first gets Colossus Slayer?

@TopCheese
If I read it correctly Hunter's Mark (Ranger Spell) is used every hit as long as concentration isn't interrupted.
Still need the "Quote" question answered.

The +10 from Sharpshooter gets added to every hit... just not doubled for CRIT.

Sorry about these questions but the whole group is new to 5e and the DM is starting us out at lvl 10. (none of the PCs know why he's starting us out so high either)

I just want to make sure I have all my facts correct when he throws the "WTF!!! How are you doing all that?" at me

[Edgerunner]

Yeah. Was thinking of colossus slayer. My bad.

OP. Yes. With action surge, sneak attack 2d6, hunters mark, assasinate, colossus slayer and marksman, and you surprising an enemy (assuming longbow and dex 18):

Bonus action (cast hunters mark)

Use the Attack action (2 attacks). Action surge to take the attack action again (2 more attacks)

Deal (2d8 from bow, 4d6 sneak attack, 2d6 hunters mark) plus 10 from sharpshooter plus Dex with 1st attack.

Deal (2d8 from bow, 2d8 from colossus slayer, 2d6 from hunters mark) plus 10 from sharpshooter and Dex with attacks 2-4.

You can't hide as you don't have a bonus action (you used it to cast hunters mark) even if you have a super permissive DM who allows hiding every round no matter what.

Many Thanks All!

The DM is gunna have a coronary when I whip this out.

[Ruslan]

Hunter 5 gets two attacks by default.
With Action Surge: 4 attacks

Sneak Attack applies 1/turn (Action Surge still counts as the same turn)
Colossus Slayer is also 1/turn
Hunter's Mark applies to all attacks
Auto-crit applies to all attacks, because the enemy will be surprised until the end of your turn
Sharpshooter of course also applies to all attacks

So each hit deals:

2d8 (base damage from arrow, doubled w/crit) +
Dex (Dexterity Bonus) +
2d6 (damage from Hunter's Mark, doubled w/crit) +
10 (Sharpshooter)

In addition, the first hit (only) deals additional:
4d6 (sneak attack damage, doubled w/crit)

And the second hit (only) deals additional:
2d8 (Colossus Slayer damage, doubled w/crit)

Total potential damage: 10d8 + 4*Dex + 12d6 + 40

[Malifice]

Many Thanks All!

The DM is gunna have a coronary when I whip this out.

It requires a surprise round, a high initiative check (you need to beat your enemies initiative), the attacks hitting (at-5) expending a 1st level spell slot and your action surge.

There are much bigger nova strikes you can pull off at 10th level man. BM Fighter 5, assasin 5 with crossbow master, sharpshooter and a hand crossbow is strictly better.

[Edgerunner]

It requires a surprise round, a high initiative check (you need to beat your enemies initiative), the attacks hitting (at-5) expending a 1st level spell slot and your action surge.

There are much bigger nova strikes you can pull off at 10th level man. BM Fighter 5, assasin 5 with crossbow master, sharpshooter and a hand crossbow is strictly better.

Actually It's built this way for RP reasons.
Just want to get the best juice out of it I can.
Want to get 2 more lvls of Rogue(lvl5) for 3d6SA, Uncanny Dodge and the ASI.
Then work the remaining lvls in Ranger to get the lvl 4 Spell

New Question...
Which is the Higher priority?
20 DEX or Feats? (Want ALERT as next feat}

[Malifice]

Actually It's built this way for RP reasons.
Just want to get the best juice out of it I can.
Want to get 2 more lvls of Rogue(lvl5) for 3d6SA, Uncanny Dodge and the ASI.
Then work the remaining lvls in Ranger to get the lvl 4 Spell

New Question...
Which is the Higher priority?
20 DEX or Feats? (Want ALERT as next feat}

Alert. You really need the initiative.

[Ruslan]

Alert. You really need the initiative.

What you need most is the surprise round. Expertise in Stealth and Perception is what you need. Also being creative with the Disguise kit. And, even if you don't get the surprise round, all you need to get mileage out of the Assassinate ability it to find *one* enemy who goes after you. Convince your DM to roll Initiative for each enemy separately.

Eg., if you're fighting 4 Giants and they roll initiative together, there's a reasonable chance they'll all go before you. But convince the DM to roll init for all 4 separately, and there's a large chance at least one straggler will be a good target for Assassinate.

[Malifice]

What you need most is the surprise round. Expertise in Stealth and Perception is what you need. Also being creative with the Disguise kit. And, even if you don't get the surprise round, all you need to get mileage out of the Assassinate ability it to find *one* enemy who goes after you. Convince your DM to roll Initiative for each enemy separately.

Eg., if you're fighting 4 Giants and they roll initiative together, there's a reasonable chance they'll all go before you. But convince the DM to roll init for all 4 separately, and there's a large chance at least one straggler will be a good target for Assassinate.

Not that you can tell which is which.

[Ruslan]

Not that you can tell which is which.I'm sorry, can you clarify? Are you claiming that you can't determine which of the enemies took an action in combat and which hasn't yet?

[Malifice]

I'm sorry, can you clarify? Are you claiming that you can't determine which of the enemies took an action in combat and which hasn't yet?

They don't take an action in round 1. Surprised enemies miss turn 1.

So you can't tell which giant has had its turn yet (and is thus immune to assasinate) or hasn't had their turn yet.

[Edgerunner]

What you need most is the surprise round. Expertise in Stealth and Perception is what you need. Also being creative with the Disguise kit. And, even if you don't get the surprise round, all you need to get mileage out of the Assassinate ability it to find *one* enemy who goes after you. Convince your DM to roll Initiative for each enemy separately.

Eg., if you're fighting 4 Giants and they roll initiative together, there's a reasonable chance they'll all go before you. But convince the DM to roll init for all 4 separately, and there's a large chance at least one straggler will be a good target for Assassinate.

Took Stealth and Perception as my Rogue Expertise so it shouldn't be an issue except on completely Crap rolls.

Should I have used my Expertise somewhere else if I have ALERT?

[Malifice]

Took Stealth and Perception as my Rogue Expertise so it shouldn't be an issue except on completely Crap rolls.

Should I have used my Expertise somewhere else if I have ALERT?

You need a good initiative check to get assassinate off.

[Edgerunner]

Hunter 5 gets two attacks by default.
With Action Surge: 4 attacks

Sneak Attack applies 1/turn (Action Surge still counts as the same turn)
Colossus Slayer is also 1/turn
Hunter's Mark applies to all attacks
Auto-crit applies to all attacks, because the enemy will be surprised until the end of your turn
Sharpshooter of course also applies to all attacks

So each hit deals:

2d8 (base damage from arrow, doubled w/crit) +
Dex (Dexterity Bonus) +
2d6 (damage from Hunter's Mark, doubled w/crit) +
10 (Sharpshooter)

In addition, the first hit (only) deals additional:
4d6 (sneak attack damage, doubled w/crit)

And the second hit (only) deals additional:
2d8 (Colossus Slayer damage, doubled w/crit)

Total potential damage: 10d8 + 4*Dex + 12d6 + 40

Wouldn't that be 10d8 + 16 (4*DEX) + 12d6 + 40???
+4 per arrow/attack

Can I use the Extra Attack from Ranger 5 and split the damage to two different targets so I can get the benefit of Colossus Slayer on each target?

[Theodoxus]

Wouldn't that be 10d8 + 16 (4*DEX) + 12d6 + 40???
+4 per arrow/attack

Can I use the Extra Attack from Ranger 5 and split the damage to two different targets so I can get the benefit of Colossus Slayer on each target?

Yes.

Though at that point (potentially) Horde Breaker might be better. An extra 2d8+14 vs 2d8... but it does require a pretty specific set up that might not happen in an ambush/surprise situation.

ETA: @Malifice, I'm confused by your assertion that you wouldn't know which giants were surprised. The ones that weren't would also be granted an action on the surprise round. Now, maybe they're super smart and realize there's an assassin in their midst, and thus won't act, stymieing the assassins attack but that would be pretty meta.

[Ruslan]

Wouldn't that be 10d8 + 16 (4*DEX) + 12d6 + 40???
+4 per arrow/attack

Can I use the Extra Attack from Ranger 5 and split the damage to two different targets so I can get the benefit of Colossus Slayer on each target?

I believe Colossus Slayer specifies "once per turn". Not "once per target per turn".

[Malifice]

Yes.

Though at that point (potentially) Horde Breaker might be better. An extra 2d8+14 vs 2d8... but it does require a pretty specific set up that might not happen in an ambush/surprise situation.

ETA: @Malifice, I'm confused by your assertion that you wouldn't know which giants were surprised. The ones that weren't would also be granted an action on the surprise round. Now, maybe they're super smart and realize there's an assassin in their midst, and thus won't act, stymieing the assassins attack but that would be pretty meta.

Assume you surpise 2 giants then roll a 10 for initiative. They roll 15 and a 5.

On 15s turn it does nothing (but is no longer surprised). Now it's your go.

How can you tell betwen 15 and 5? Neither have done anything (15 had his turn and couldn't act - 5 hasn't had his turn yet). Only 5 is a legal target for assassinate.

Maybe the DM is nice and tells you that 15 looks aware of what's going on now (he can take reactions after all).

[Vogonjeltz]

and after ALL of this I get to slip back into cover and set up for another sneak attack next round?

Depends. Do you have the skulker feat? If not, are you a Wood Elf or Halfling with their allowances for hiding?
If neither of those, are you heavily obscured?

If not, no, you can't attempt to hide after shooting as you've revealed yourself by doing so and don't have any exception allowing you to hide while lighlty obscured.

[Ruslan]

Also, Hiding is a Bonus Action, and your Bonus Action was already eaten up by Hunter's Mark.

[Malifice]

Depends. Do you have the skulker feat? If not, are you a Wood Elf or Halfling with their allowances for hiding?
If neither of those, are you heavily obscured?

If not, no, you can't attempt to hide after shooting as you've revealed yourself by doing so and don't have any exception allowing you to hide while lighlty obscured.

Halflings and elves don't come with any ability that circumvents revealing themselves after attacking from hiding. The abilities only change what they can hide behind.

He needs the Skulker feat (and to miss), or a permissive DM.

[Vogonjeltz]

Halflings and elves don't come with any ability that circumvents revealing themselves after attacking from hiding. The abilities only change what they can hide behind.

He needs the Skulker feat (and to miss), or a permissive DM.

No they don't have an ability that circumvents their location being revealed after attacking from hiding. What they do have is abilities that let them hide in those particularized circumstances (lightly obscured by natural phenomena or obscured by a creature one size larger).

Which is why I drew the distinction between skulker, racial, and heavily obscured options. Because even when heavily obscured your location gets revealed when you attack, but you can still re-hide.

[Malifice]

No they don't have an ability that circumvents their location being revealed after attacking from hiding. What they do have is abilities that let them hide in those particularized circumstances (lightly obscured by natural phenomena or obscured by a creature one size larger).

Which is why I drew the distinction between skulker, racial, and heavily obscured options. Because even when heavily obscured your location gets revealed when you attack, but you can still re-hide.

Debateable.

[bid]

Debateable.
"blocks vision entirely"
"can see you"

Debated.

[Malifice]

"blocks vision entirely"
"can see you"

Debated.

The debate is in relation to Halflings hiding behind M creatures. They pop out to make their attack (revealing themselves barring skulker). They are now automatically seen and noticed once the attack is made (hit or miss).

In some games they cannot duck back behind the same creature and attempt to hide again now that the enemy is observing them. In other games they can.


That is where the debate lies.

[Vogonjeltz]

In some games they cannot duck back behind the same creature and attempt to hide again now that the enemy is observing them. In other games they can.

By the written rules the Lightfoot Halfling is allowed to hide by getting a medium sized creature between them and whoever they are hiding from (PHB 28). All games that aren't removing that racial feature as a house rule operate that way.

[Malifice]

By the written rules the Lightfoot Halfling is allowed to hide by getting a medium sized creature between them and whoever they are hiding from (PHB 28).

Not while under observation they cant.

Again, it depends on your interpretation of what 'hiding while under observation' means.

You interpret this to mean: 'breaking LOS on your turn' fulfils the requirement of 'not hiding while being observed'.

I (and many others) interpret 'you cant hide while being observed' differently. As in 'You cant duck behind a M creature and attempt a Hide check while you are under obserservation'

Im not here to debate which interpretation is correct. Thats been done to death. Im just pointing out that there are different interpretations other than the 'jack in the box' halfling.

[Vogonjeltz]

Not while under observation they cant.

That isn't written there. The racial ability provides a specific exception, a circumstance where the halfling may hide.

[Malifice]

That isn't written there. The racial ability provides a specific exception, a circumstance where the halfling may hide.

No it doesnt. The Halfling racial ability only changes what you can hide behind. For example Gnomes (also S sized creatures) cant hide behind M sized creatures at all. Halflings can.

The ability doesnt change the 'you cant hide under obervation' limitation. Neither does the Wood elf's ability (to hide in light natural obscurement) either. It doesnt grant 'hide in plain sight' - it only changes what you can hide in.

A Halfling cant hide behind a human while under observation, any more than a human can hide behind a bus while under observation.

[bid]

A Halfling cant hide behind a human while under observation, any more than a human can hide behind a bus while under observation.
So, pray tell, when does mask of the wild happen to have a use? Is it perchance never? Is it merely an RP decoration?

[Malifice]

So, pray tell, when does mask of the wild happen to have a use? Is it perchance never? Is it merely an RP decoration?

Whenever the Elf is not being observed 'closely enough'.

I turn my back on an elf in an open paddock in the rain and he can attempt to hide - where no-one else can (aside from a PC with the Skulker feat from memory)

Creepy aint it?

A non Elf/ Halfling PC needs cover or total concealment (i.e. complete darkness, or a big box to hide in or behind, or something similar). For the elf he can hide in everything a human can hide in AND any light natural obscurement such as rain, light fog, long grass, light scrub (when he isnt being observed).

[KorvinStarmast]

Whenever the Elf is not being observed 'closely enough'.

I turn my back on an elf in an open paddock in the rain and he can attempt to hide - where no-one else can (aside from a PC with the Skulker feat from memory)

Creepy aint it?

A non Elf/ Halfling PC needs cover or total concealment (i.e. complete darkness, or a big box to hide in or behind, or something similar). For the elf he can hide in everything a human can hide in AND any light natural obscurement such as rain, light fog, long grass, light scrub (when he isnt being observed).
I thought it was actually "an elf can attempt to hide" (make the stealth check) in everything ..."

Sorry, not gonna get dragged further into this latest iteration of the Great Hide Debate.

Vogonjeltz and Malifice:

I dub thee Buffalo Hunters for thine obsession with hides. :smallbiggrin:

[Malifice]

I thought it was actually "an elf can attempt to hide" (make the stealth check) in everything ..."

Just adds 'light natural obscurement' to the list of things the Elf can Hide in (cover and total obscurement).

Still doesnt allow the Elf to hide while being observed.

I can stare at an elf in the rain 15' away from me in an open paddock and he cant hide; but if I turn my back on him he can use my distraction to hide... even in the same spot he was in before I turned my back.

Creepy things them elves.