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View Full Version : 3rd Ed Soulknives suck - but would this help them?



Flickerdart
2015-09-25, 11:48 AM
You frequently see suggestions to the tune of "what if fighters could shuffle their feats, does that make them not awful?" The answer, naturally, is no, but it got me thinking.

Soulknives (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/soulknife.htm) suck even more than fighters because their best class feature is "I have a magic sword." But what if we let them do some nicer things with that magic sword that nobody else can do?

1) Expand the list of allowed weapon properties to include anything in the game with a +X enhancement value. WotC's myopia regarding non-core content needs to go.
2) Pool their "+x mind blade" and "mind blade enhancement +x" features. A 20th level soulknife should be able to have a +1 sword with +9 worth of junk on it if he wants to.
3) Allow them to reboot their sword and stick on new properties. I'm thinking that "as a swift action once per encounter" would actually not be too strong for these guys. Rebooting a 1/day property would not free up the use, so none of that Lucky nonsense.
4) Allow them to treat their mind blade as various special materials without needing feats, like monks treat their fists.

Is this enough to make soulknives competitive with T3 classes? What about T4? Is there any abuse here beyond "oh I see a devil, let's pull out my handy +1 anarchic holy fiendbane stick for +6d6 damage"?

ComaVision
2015-09-25, 11:57 AM
I think it's a good start. In my opinion, the Soulknife needs to actually have some Psionic powers but I don't know how to fit that in without devaluing the Psychic Warrior.

Rubik
2015-09-25, 12:05 PM
I think it's a good start. In my opinion, the Soulknife needs to actually have some Psionic powers but I don't know how to fit that in without devaluing the Psychic Warrior.Psychic warriors already get the soulbound weapon ACF, meaning it's basically a gestalt of the two. I honestly don't think the soulknife's abilities quite stack up to the psywar's bonus feats, so it's definitely not devaluing it. Having a different power suite might work, though. After all, psywars have a lot of natural weapons powers, and soulknives don't typically use natural weapons, so each is still distinct enough.

How about gestalting the soulknife with monk, using the unarmed strike enhancements (and flurrying) on the mind blade instead of the unarmed strike, and adding some divine mind on top? Gestalting all three classes together is STILL not better than the soulbound psywar, even if you include the above boosts to the mind blade, so...

Mehangel
2015-09-25, 12:09 PM
Or you could just port over the Soulknife (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife) from pathfinder. It is a solid Tier 4 (Tier 3 if you include the right archetypes (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife/archetypes))

Nifft
2015-09-25, 12:13 PM
Hmm.

What about a combo Factotum-Soulknife?

Spend Inspiration points to shuffle around your augments, or exceed your augment budget for a few minutes.

Basically replace the Factotum's Spell-Like Ability progression with the entire Soulknife class.

- - -

Alternately, add all 20 levels of the Soulknife class progression to the Chameleon's Combat Focus. That would coincidentally help justify ever using the Chameleon's Combat Focus.

- - -

Alternately alternately, make Soulknife a prestige class which advances your weapon and your manifesting (i.e. like how 3.0e Soulknife was).

Seruvius
2015-09-25, 12:14 PM
Well those look like fairly simple and balanced changes to me. The soulknife is still rather combat focused, but at least now they are a bit more flexible. Being able to say throw the appropriate Bane on your weapon for a +1 is nice but nothing ridiculous (looking at you Artificer).

Dondasch
2015-09-25, 12:17 PM
You frequently see suggestions to the tune of "what if fighters could shuffle their feats, does that make them not awful?" The answer, naturally, is no, but it got me thinking.

Soulknives (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/soulknife.htm) suck even more than fighters because their best class feature is "I have a magic sword." But what if we let them do some nicer things with that magic sword that nobody else can do?

1) Expand the list of allowed weapon properties to include anything in the game with a +X enhancement value. WotC's myopia regarding non-core content needs to go.
2) Pool their "+x mind blade" and "mind blade enhancement +x" features. A 20th level soulknife should be able to have a +1 sword with +9 worth of junk on it if he wants to.
3) Allow them to reboot their sword and stick on new properties. I'm thinking that "as a swift action once per encounter" would actually not be too strong for these guys. Rebooting a 1/day property would not free up the use, so none of that Lucky nonsense.
4) Allow them to treat their mind blade as various special materials without needing feats, like monks treat their fists.

Is this enough to make soulknives competitive with T3 classes? What about T4? Is there any abuse here beyond "oh I see a devil, let's pull out my handy +1 anarchic holy fiendbane stick for +6d6 damage"?

For 3), I think making it just a full-round action whenever they want would be okay; this might not even need the clause on x/day abilites. I can't think of any that are too powerful to be used once every other round (The real exploit with Lucky is the Soulbow, who can get it on every attack they make).
For 4), maybe limit it to overcoming DR, and allow full special materials as +x abilites? I.e., you get the ability to overcome DR/adamantine at level Z, and can make your weapon adamantine (thus allowing you to bypass hardness) as a +1 equivalent ability.

Other ideas:
Expand the list of allowed weapons to any they are proficient in, no feats required (other than proficiency).

ComaVision
2015-09-25, 01:14 PM
OK, here's what I'm going to do for my my game (credit to Rubik for the idea to gestalt with Divine Mind):


Soulknife
Gestalt Soulknife and Divine Mind.

Starting at level 2, the Soulknife’s mindblade gains an enhancement bonus equal to half her level. Starting at 6th level, this can be used for weapon special abilities, with no restrictions except the mindblade must have at least a +1 bonus before adding weapon special abilities.

The Soulknife’s power points/day progression are the same as the Psychic Warrior’s. The Soulknife knows all powers in her mantles. The Soulknife’s manifester level is equal to her class level.

Rubik
2015-09-25, 01:23 PM
OK, here's what I'm going to do for my my game (credit to Rubik for the idea to gestalt with Divine Mind):Don't forget a blurb stating that any PrC that grants +manifesting also grants +mind blade enhancements, as well.

Psyren
2015-09-25, 10:33 PM
I think it's a good start. In my opinion, the Soulknife needs to actually have some Psionic powers but I don't know how to fit that in without devaluing the Psychic Warrior.

That's easy - Full BAB and 4th-level casting - which is exactly what they got (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife/archetypes/dreamscarred-press/gifted-blade) in Pathfinder. And all you give up for it is psychic strike - a plenty worthwhile trade.