Would allowing this be broken, or no?

[SangoProduction]

OK, yes, I've been asking a lot about the totemist, or incarnum in general, but only because it has so little first party support (all of 1 book, yay) and I find it extremely intriguing.

If you allowed soul shapers to gain their shaping abilities (essentia, binds, soul melds) when using a class that has +spell caster level, or whatever?

Is it also reasonable to allow them to open their chakras when they reach the appropriate soul shaper level?

[Brova]

That's probably fine. All the genuinely broken PrCs are broken because they give you something that makes your spellcasting go totally nuts. Incantatrix lets you get stupid huge amounts of free metamagic, which just doesn't matter if you don't have spells on which to use metamagic. Similarly Circle Magic, Supernatural Spell, and all sorts of stuff.

[BowStreetRunner]

The best prestige classes for your campaign are the ones you tailor make yourself.
Rather than just making all such prestige classes to work I would pick the prestige classes you want to mirror and create a new prestige class based off that template. This way you don't run into any nasty surprises down the road when a player comes up with some Prestige Class whose abilities interact in an unexpectedly broken way.

[SangoProduction]

lol. True. But still. The question is still valid, as even if you build a class yourself, if you don't know if it's broken or not, then you won't make a great class.

[Troacctid]

It would not be broken.


(all of 1 book, yay)

Also, two books.

[SangoProduction]

Also, two books.

Two books? There's one other than Magic of Incarnum? I couldn't find another.

[Troacctid]

Dragon Magic is the other. There's also Faiths of Eberron, but that doesn't really count.

[Jeff the Green]

Dragon Magic is the other. There's also Faiths of Eberron, but that doesn't really count.

What's in FoE?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Iirc one prestige class (thief of life?) could steal essentia or something like that.

[SangoProduction]

There doesn't seem to be anything in Dragon Magic related to incarnum

[Deophaun]

There doesn't seem to be anything in Dragon Magic related to incarnum

I would think the section titled "Draconic Soulmelds" might yield something related to Incarnum.

[SangoProduction]

Missed it, thanks.

[Red Fel]

I would think the section titled "Draconic Soulmelds" might yield something related to Incarnum.

Also excerpted here (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060912a&page=4).

Yes, Virginia, there is a Soulmeld clause.

There's also one on Psionic Soulmelds (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20060217a).

Here's the thing, though. Look at most classes that add +spellcaster level. What exactly would they do for a meldshaper? Further, what would being a meldshaper do to help you meet prerequisites?

I'm not saying it would be broken. (I note that if you progressed casting and meldshaping from a +spellcasting class, that might be a different story.) Rather, I'm saying, "What's the point?"

[Troacctid]

Sentinel of Bharrai would be pretty sweet, off the top of my head.

[Red Fel]

Sentinel of Bharrai would be pretty sweet, off the top of my head.

... Yeah, actually, that would be. Doesn't require any particular casting ability, just some skills and feats. The Nature-Friendly Spells ability would be useless (except for the class' lightning powers), but turning into a bear, summoning bears, and flinging lightning around like it's going out of style are all fun things, particularly given that the CL for the lightning abilities is based on character level.

Keep in mind that things that advance meldshaper level don't grant new tiers of chakra binds, just additional ML, essentia, number of melds shaped and number bound. So you do lose some functionality that way. Also keep in mind that I'm not sure whether a bear has the same body slots as most races, which might hinder the use of some soulmelds.

[SangoProduction]

Also keep in mind that I'm not sure whether a bear has the same body slots as most races, which might hinder the use of some soulmelds.

That's actually made explicit in the soulmelds chapter in Magic of Incarnum. They gave an example with a horse. While it can't wear a ring, it still has the "hand" chakra or whatever.

As for the "point"? Well, what's the point of anything? lol, ok, actually: the point is to offer the "option" of doing something other than a few highly restrictive prestige classes if you use soul binding.

[Red Fel]

That's actually made explicit in the soulmelds chapter in Magic of Incarnum. They gave an example with a horse. While it can't wear a ring, it still has the "hand" chakra or whatever.

True. But it lacks thumbs; it couldn't wield an Incarnate Weapon. That's a narrow example, but fair, I think.


As for the "point"? Well, what's the point of anything? lol, ok, actually: the point is to offer the "option" of doing something other than a few highly restrictive prestige classes if you use soul binding.

Surely you're not speaking ill of the Ironsoul Forgemaster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?344798-Soul-and-Steel-A-Guide-to-the-Ironsoul-Forgemaster-%28WIP-PEACH%29), are you? I mean, why else would anyone even use incarnum in the first place?

[SangoProduction]

For the flavor?

[Rubik]

For the flavor?Which is, of course, blueberry.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Surely you're not speaking ill of the Ironsoul Forgemaster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?344798-Soul-and-Steel-A-Guide-to-the-Ironsoul-Forgemaster-%28WIP-PEACH%29), are you? I mean, why else would anyone even use incarnum in the first place?

Because it is flavorful and totemist is cool and gets tons of natural weapons? Good incarnated are also hilariously difficult to kill low levels. (Assume this next text is in grey) Not that you would know. (End grey text)

[AmberVael]

Which is, of course, blueberry.

Or possibly blue raspberry. :smalltongue: