Help Me Build... (3.5)

[Ralcos]

As the title implies, I want help in building a character for a 3.5 game ill be playing in soon.
I want to build a character like Scorpion, Sub-Zero, Ermac, or Tremor from the Mortal Kombat franchise, but I have no real ideas on how to make them work in D&D.
We all start at level 4.
Any and all suggestions are accepted.

[RolandDeschain]

What are the multi-classing rules of your group? What races and sources are allowed?

Give a brief overview of what you want out of each character(what 'draws' you to them in terms of their abilities), and maybe we can help you build specifically what you're looking for.

[BowStreetRunner]

We really need to know if you have access to Tome of Battle: the Book of Nine Swords. I think this will be a very helpful source to have.

[Ralcos]

What are the multi-classing rules of your group? What races and sources are allowed?

Give a brief overview of what you want out of each character(what 'draws' you to them in terms of their abilities), and maybe we can help you build specifically what you're looking for.

Basically, we're allowed to use 1st-Party books (WotC made stuff), and we are allowed to multiclass as we see fit.

To clarify, I love how the ninjas of Mortal Kombat are more combat-spellcasters in terms of the way they use their abilities.
For example, Scorpion uses teleportation to his advantage with his Rope Dart of Doom, Sub-Zero manipulates ice and can create temporary weapons made of said ice, and Tremor is a master at earth-bending.

So basically, I want to be a good melee warrior while also having the ability to cast spells/manifest powers on a near-constant basis, if that makes sense.

[Ralcos]

We really need to know if you have access to Tome of Battle: the Book of Nine Swords. I think this will be a very helpful source to have.

And I do have ToB. Interesting book.

[RolandDeschain]

BowStreetRunner is spot on. ToB is going to be your friend here for sure. I'm afraid I don't know enough about Mortal Kombat to be of much service.

Off the top of my head, Warblade, Psychic Warrior, or Duskblade might get you where you want to be. Some sort of cold focused cleric might work as well with the Ice Axe spell coming online at 5th level.

You're bound to get way better(and more specific) advice than that, so I'll leave you in more capable hands.

CHEERS!

[DMVerdandi]

As the title implies, I want help in building a character for a 3.5 game ill be playing in soon.
I want to build a character like Scorpion, Sub-Zero, Ermac, or Tremor from the Mortal Kombat franchise, but I have no real ideas on how to make them work in D&D.
We all start at level 4.
Any and all suggestions are accepted.

First things first.
Which element do you want your Kuei-jin to be?





Theoretically speaking, you could do this in a variety of ways.

-Battle sorcerer (just a regular sorcerer with better BAB)

-Duskblade (Full BAB, meh spellcasting, but can imbue their attacks with spells for pretty sick damage)

-Cleric (This would work by using the spontaneous domain casting ACF from PHB2. Pick a domain, and they can spontaneously cast any spell from it.)

-Druid (Elemental spells, as well as wild shape for those ANIMALITIES BABY:smallbiggrin:)

-tob gish (You can get Jade Phoenix Mage with Martial wizard 5, so this is going to be a lot less... physically dominant as the others early on in the game.)

[Solaris]

Psychic Warrior or Psychic Rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd%2Fpsm%2F20040723b) going into Pyrokineticist might do the trick, especially if you pick up the Improved Unarmed Strike and Superior Unarmed Strike feats and/or the feats to expand your power list and pick up some of the energy rays. Change the elemental type if you want someone other than Scorpion.

Weapon should probably be something along the lines of a kunai (I do believe you can find it in the DMG, under the alternate weapons), which has the advantage of being a longer-ranged weapon than your fists. If you pick up Snap Kick as a feat later on, you'll be able to use a weapon and hit someone with your unarmed strike with a full attack.

[Bakkan]

Basically, we're allowed to use 1st-Party books (WotC made stuff), and we are allowed to multiclass as we see fit.

To clarify, I love how the ninjas of Mortal Kombat are more combat-spellcasters in terms of the way they use their abilities.
For example, Scorpion uses teleportation to his advantage with his Rope Dart of Doom, Sub-Zero manipulates ice and can create temporary weapons made of said ice, and Tremor is a master at earth-bending.

So basically, I want to be a good melee warrior while also having the ability to cast spells/manifest powers on a near-constant basis, if that makes sense.

I know next to nothing about Mortal Kombat, but from what you are describing:

Scorpion is definitely a Swordsage, focusing on a lot of Shadow Hand for teleportation, possibly some Setting Sun for throws and such. I don't know how to make enemies "Get over here!!" but there may be some items that could work. The Harpoon seems a logical choice, but it doesn't seem that a harpoon can actually be used to drag someone closer to you.

Sub-Zero sounds like a Sorcerer and/or Cleric Gish focusing on ice spells, such as Cone of Cold, Ray of Frost, and Polar Ray from the Player's Handbook, Ice Axe, Ice Claw, Ice Dagger, Ice Flowers (?), Ice Gauntlet, Ice Knife, and Icelance from the Spell Compendium, and many others.

Tremor sounds like a ToB class focused on Stone Dragon. For maximum earth-shaping, you can go into Deepstone Sentinel and do all sorts of crazy stuff.

[Svata]

In addition to what Verandi said, what is the relative power-level of your group? Are we talking more along healbot clerics, beatsick fighters, and blasty wizards or more god wizards, DMM: persist clerics and DFI Bards? That really determines if you should go Gish-in-a-can/Initiator (PsyWar/Rogue, Duskblade, ToB classes etc) or something a bit stronger (Abjurant Champ builds, the aforementioned DMM:persist Clerics, Jade Phoenix Mage, etc)

[Ralcos]

In addition to what Verandi said, what is the relative power-level of your group? Are we talking more along healbot clerics, beatsick fighters, and blasty wizards or more god wizards, DMM: persist clerics and DFI Bards? That really determines if you should go Gish-in-a-can/Initiator (PsyWar/Rogue, Duskblade, ToB classes etc) or something a bit stronger (Abjurant Champ builds, the aforementioned DMM:persist Clerics, Jade Phoenix Mage, etc)

I don't actually know, but I'll assume some medium-level optimization.
Also, you guys are giving me some pretty good ideas! :smallsmile:

[Ralcos]

Resurrecting the thread to get more suggestions.

[DrMartin]

Is Spheres of Powers on the table? is a great book to create characters focused on a clearly defined theme.

[Ralcos]

Is Spheres of Powers on the table? is a great book to create characters focused on a clearly defined theme.

I did the research, and I'm sad to say no, due to it being a third-party supplement.

[Ralcos]

Revivify Post
Allows you to resurrect a forum post from the dead, but only if they are on the second page.

(sorry for the multipost)

[Aleolus]

You could see if your DM is willing to give an initiator progression to a non-ToB class, if only a partial one, then mix and match classes with disciplines until you have one that works

[Ralcos]

You could see if your DM is willing to give an initiator progression to a non-ToB class, if only a partial one, then mix and match classes with disciplines until you have one that works

I'll ask, but I'm not sure she'd accept that idea...
If she does, using Psychic Warrior and adding in half initiator progression of the Swordsage sounds intriguing.

EDIT: She said no. That path won't work.

How about a multiclass Swordsage/Psychic Warrior? Will that work?

[Ralcos]

Thread Resurrection

I have decided to go Human Swordsage with a mediocre-powered Earth Elemental Bloodline. Does this work?
(once again, sorry for the multipost)

[ComaVision]

Thread Resurrection

I have decided to go Human Swordsage with a mediocre-powered Earth Elemental Bloodline. Does this work?
(once again, sorry for the multipost)

I'm guessing you went with Tremor then? Unfortunately the EE Bloodline doesn't really add anything to the build. I think the Earth theme is really hard to do without casting, Scorpion is probably best represented with the Swordsage. There are rope-darts in D&D too but unfortunately they're from Dragon Magazine so I don't think that meets your criteria.

[Ralcos]

I'm guessing you went with Tremor then? Unfortunately the EE Bloodline doesn't really add anything to the build. I think the Earth theme is really hard to do without casting, Scorpion is probably best represented with the Swordsage. There are rope-darts in D&D too but unfortunately they're from Dragon Magazine so I don't think that meets your criteria.

Not necessarily, but maybe I could make Scorpion with a Spiked Chain and call it his "Spear"?
Just like in MKX!

http://secondtruth.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/scorpion_mortal_kombat_x800.jpg

[ComaVision]

Not necessarily, but maybe I could make Scorpion with a Spiked Chain and call it his "Spear"?
Just like in MKX!


Yeah, that would be a pretty effective solution.

[Ralcos]

Sweet, thanks!

[ComaVision]

One last thing, since nobody mentioned it before, the Desert Wind school for Swordsage has a bunch of fire-themed attacks that work pretty well for Scorpion.

[Ralcos]

One last thing, since nobody mentioned it before, the Desert Wind school for Swordsage has a bunch of fire-themed attacks that work pretty well for Scorpion.

Awesome. *writes down notes*
Any other suggestions?

[Fouredged Sword]

I would take a look at harpoons. They are a little hard to turn into functional items in combat, but they can be fun to play with. You can literally do the impaling throw attack scorpion is famous for.

Mechanically it's a little weak though.

[Ralcos]

I would take a look at harpoons. They are a little hard to turn into functional items in combat, but they can be fun to play with. You can literally do the impaling throw attack scorpion is famous for.

Mechanically it's a little weak though.

Maybe, but I'll stick with the Spiked Chain for now.

[Ralcos]

How about the Major Demon Bloodline? Can that help with building Scorpion?

[ComaVision]

The problem with bloodlines is that you lose class levels and they really don't give you enough to make up for it.

You could get the demonic flavour with a Lesser Tiefling though. You can pick what demonic features show (pointed teeth, red eyes etc).

[Ralcos]

The problem with bloodlines is that you lose class levels and they really don't give you enough to make up for it.

You could get the demonic flavour with a Lesser Tiefling though. You can pick what demonic features show (pointed teeth, red eyes etc).

Hmm... In that case, I'll just stick with being a Human.

[ZamielVanWeber]

The problem with bloodlines is that you lose class levels and they really don't give you enough to make up for it.

You could get the demonic flavour with a Lesser Tiefling though. You can pick what demonic features show (pointed teeth, red eyes etc).

1) Bloodlines work very debatebly. Talk to your DM for how they rile them.

2) Lesser Tiefling boosts one stat you want, dex, and helps a stat that it does not hurt to have, int. The Cha penalty is almost not relevant.

Edit; Lesser Zenith Ryo look human but get a nice +2 Str Dex and Wis in return for -2 Cha (among other benefits). Not a bad choice

[Ralcos]

One more question: Can Human Paragon help with this build?

[ComaVision]

One more question: Can Human Paragon help with this build?

Help, not really. Hurt, not really.

Each level that isn't Swordsage counts as .5 a Swordsage level for the purposes of determining Initiator level. So Human Paragon 3/Whirling Frenzy Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Swordsage 1 would have an Initiator level of 3 and be able to choose 2nd level maneuvers.

That being said, going straight Swordsage would probably be marginally better but you're not really losing much.

[Ralcos]

Help, not really. Hurt, not really.

Each level that isn't Swordsage counts as .5 a Swordsage level for the purposes of determining Initiator level. So Human Paragon 3/Whirling Frenzy Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Swordsage 1 would have an Initiator level of 3 and be able to choose 2nd level maneuvers.

That being said, going straight Swordsage would probably be marginally better but you're not really losing much.

I was basically thinking of going with Swordsage/Paragon anyhow.

[ComaVision]

I was basically thinking of going with Swordsage/Paragon anyhow.

I'd recommend taking an even amount of levels so you benefit from the .5 initiator level rule.

The WF SLT Barbarian would be powerful. Alternatively, you could do Cleric 1/Human Paragon 3, take the Death and Fire domain and then trade them for Death Devotion and Fire Devotion feats (giving you the ability to deal negative levels or fire damage with your weapon). You'd also have 3rd level Cleric casting with the ability to spontaneously use Inflict spells on your foes. Go straight Swordsage when you hit level 5 and you'll kick heads in.

[Ralcos]

I'd recommend taking an even amount of levels so you benefit from the .5 initiator level rule.

The WF SLT Barbarian would be powerful. Alternatively, you could do Cleric 1/Human Paragon 3, take the Death and Fire domain and then trade them for Death Devotion and Fire Devotion feats (giving you the ability to deal negative levels or fire damage with your weapon). You'd also have 3rd level Cleric casting with the ability to spontaneously use Inflict spells on your foes. Go straight Swordsage when you hit level 5 and you'll kick heads in.

Actually, that sounds amazing!
I'm going to start with Swordsage 4, then add in all the Human Paragon levels, so I'll be a Swordsage 4/Human Paragon 4 by 8th level. Does this sound fair?

[ComaVision]

Actually, that sounds amazing!
I'm going to start with Swordsage 4, then add in all the Human Paragon levels, so I'll be a Swordsage 4/Human Paragon 4 by 8th level. Does this sound fair?

Totally your choice but:

Swordsage 4/X 4 gets 7 1st level maneuvers, 2 2nd level maneuvers

X 4/Swordsage 4 gets 7 2nd level or lower maneuvers, 2 3rd level maneuvers