Magic Item Help

[Raenel]

Okay, so I have this idea for a paladin/ oracle where they use the spell angelic aspect, greater, and energy body to look like a flaming, holy angel when fighting with tough opponents. And I was wondering what would cost more, a ring that continually cast it on the wearer or a ring that could cast it say extended at 20th caster level maybe 12 times a day. And yes, I know how ridiculous this is. I would still like to see it done and in the most cost effective way. And if there is a way to emulate pretty much the same effects but for cheaper, I would like to see it. All book materials are allowed.

[erradin]

Well, I assume magic item creation rules from 3.5 original will be acceptable?

Energy Body is a bit hard to figure, since it's a class feature instead of a spell. Since you can learn it at level 1 as an Oracle, and assuming we have it operate as if 'cast' by a level 1 oracle in respect to its damage and healing, I am going to assume it is a level 1 spell. (Also, the ring must be crafted by, or with the direct assistance of, an Oracle of the Life Mystery)

I will also be treating Greater Angelic Aspect as an 8th level spell, since magic item creation assumes we pull it from the Cleric or Wizard sell list

Let's start with the first item. Constant Effect: Greater Angelic Aspect + Energy Body.

The formula works like this: spell level X caster level X 2000 gp.
Angelic Aspect, Greater: 8 X 15 X 2000 = 240,000

Now we need to add for Energy Body. Since the abilities are somewhat similar, we need to add only 75% of it's actual cost.

1x 1 x 2000 x .75 = 1500

SO: we have 240,000 + 1,500 initial cost. But we're not done. Since we're turning limited duration spells into constant effect powers, we need to multiply some more. namely, Energy Body needs to be multiplied by 4 (since it is measured in rounds) and Angelic Aspect, Greater needs to be multiplied by 2 (since it's duration is measured in minutes.) So our actual calculation is:

480,000 + 6,000 = 486,000 gp.

The system DOES allow for an item restricted to a specific alignment to have a reduced cost, but in this case, even a 30% reducation would still put us well over feasibility limits.

Now for your other idea: 12 charges per day. You mentioned 20th level casters for this one.

Greater Angelic Aspect: 8 x 20 x 1800 = 288,000
Energy Body: 1 x 20 x 1,800 = 36,000

SO: 324,000.

Now to account for charges:

324,000 / (5/12) = 972,000gp.


so..... unless my math is flawed somehow, and it may be, both of these are terrifying expensive- but the 12 charges per day version is definitively more.

It is actually a lot cheaper to imitate the appearance of these effects without using the spells themselves. You could use Fire Shield for the flame effect and Alter Self for the wings + fly for the flight, and end up with a 4th, 3rd and a 2nd level spell combo that works much more nicely together in terms of cost.

Constant Effect
Alter self: 12,000 x2 (1 min/lvl duration) = 24,000
Fire Shield: 56,000 x2 (1 min/lvl duration) = 112,000
Fly: 30,000 x2 (1 min/lvl duration) = 60,000
so about 196,000 gp. Ish.

What you end up with is flight, some nice wings and low-light vision, plus half damage from all cold based attacks (or fire based attacks if you want to go that route.) Plus, all enemies that attack you in melee without a reach weapon suffer 1d6 damage. Plus, you can decide if you want to be shrouded in blue, purple, green or red fire.



Caster level 20 makes the 12 charges per day (or even 10 charges per day) nuts. Unless you're ok with a lower CL and a shorter duration at a time, it will come out to a lot more. Also, 12 charges is a lot. If you drop it to 4 a day, you can actually lower the price by a bit.

I hope this helps (and that my math is right.)

Based off of the magic-item creation table for 3.5, found here: http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/magicItemsCreation.html

Compare to this table for Pathfinder, which appears to be the same, but some difference I did not notice may be important.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items#Table-Estimating-Magic-Item-Gold-Piece-Values

[Raenel]

The system DOES allow for an item restricted to a specific alignment to have a reduced cost, but in this case, even a 30% reducation would still put us well over feasibility limits.
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What kind of restrictions are available? I can't seem to find a list of restrictions to reduce cost

[erradin]

On the 3.5 table, if you scroll down you will see some aditional comments.



"0-Level Spells: When multiplying spell levels to determine value, 0- level spells should be treated as 1/2 level.
Other Considerations: Once you have a final cost figure, reduce that number if either of the following conditions applies:
—Item Requires Skill to Use: Some items require a specific skill to get them to function. This factor should reduce the cost about 10%.
—Item Requires Specific Class or Alignment to Use: Even more restrictive than requiring a skill, this limitation cuts the cost by 30%

Also, reducing caster level and charges per day will help, too. You can, with DM permission, stick on an ad-hoc limitation to reduce cost. Such as, for example, requiring a vial of holy water or potion of Bless to splash over the ring before it activates. This would require the DM to agree to a custom price reduction, though.

[erradin]

And yes, I know how ridiculous this is. I would still like to see it done and in the most cost effective way. And if there is a way to emulate pretty much the same effects but for cheaper, I would like to see it. All book materials are allowed.

So if you're serious about this just being as cheap as possible, then an idea occurs to me which it is perhaps silly of me not to have considered earlier. Make two rings that respond to the same command word, and use different specs for each.

Ring of Energy Body: (1 x 20 x 1,800)/(5/10) = 72,000 gp. (10 charges/day at 20 rounds each)
Ring of Angelic Aspect, Greater: (8 x 20 x 1,800) / (5/1) = 57,600 (1 charge/day at 20 minutes each)

So you get two rings, each keyed to activate on the same trigger word. Perhaps "Velaritas'. Each will last for 20 minutes/day. Make a modified version of the Energy Body ring that expends all of the charges at once, or else has a duration pool that can be spent a minute at a time, and you've got twenty minutes of both spell effects at the cost of two rings slots. Mind you, I'm still assuming Energy Body has damage and healing as if cast at level 1.

You can even require both rings to be used by a good character and reduce the cost by 30%.

Total project cost: 129,600 gp. If you can get the Good Aligned reduction, then: x .7 = 90,720 gp.

[Raenel]

So if you're serious about this just being as cheap as possible, then an idea occurs to me which it is perhaps silly of me not to have considered earlier. Make two rings that respond to the same command word, and use different specs for each.

Ring of Energy Body: (1 x 20 x 1,800)/(5/10) = 72,000 gp. (10 charges/day at 20 rounds each)
Ring of Angelic Aspect, Greater: (8 x 20 x 1,800) / (5/1) = 57,600 (1 charge/day at 20 minutes each)

So you get two rings, each keyed to activate on the same trigger word. Perhaps "Velaritas'. Each will last for 20 minutes/day. Make a modified version of the Energy Body ring that expends all of the charges at once, or else has a duration pool that can be spent a minute at a time, and you've got twenty minutes of both spell effects at the cost of two rings slots. Mind you, I'm still assuming Energy Body has damage and healing as if cast at level 1.

You can even require both rings to be used by a good character and reduce the cost by 30%.

Total project cost: 129,600 gp. If you can get the Good Aligned reduction, then: x .7 = 90,720 gp.

Wow.... that's actually pretty darned brilliant. I can't believe I didn't think of that either. That's much cheaper than I had thought it would be (my dm is banning creation feats, so he gave us another 100,000 to play around with. still, I'm kind of a money hoarder). Where did you come up with velaritas by the way?

[erradin]

Thanke ye. :) Valeritas.... I kinda actually meant to type "Veritas" which is "Truth" in latin. Valeritas comes from a book series I'm a little obsessed with: The Kingkiller Chronicle. On a four-plate stone door at the back of the library of the University is written the word 'Valeritas' which the auther never translates for us. When googled, all I get it information about a pharmaceutical company. :D

[Raenel]

Thanke ye. :) Valeritas.... I kinda actually meant to type "Veritas" which is "Truth" in latin. Valeritas comes from a book series I'm a little obsessed with: The Kingkiller Chronicle. On a four-plate stone door at the back of the library of the University is written the word 'Valeritas' which the auther never translates for us. When google, all I get it informations about a pharmaceutical company. :D
I thought it sounded familiar. I really need to re-re-read that series, it has been to long. And I got that same pharmaceutical's company too when it was googled. But anyways, I kind of like it actually. I'm just picturing this grizzly, 40 year old mercenary looking dude in roughed up plate armor walking up with his greatsword drawn causally and then just saying, barely audibly, "Valeritas" and boom, giant white wings burst out from his back as golden white flames cover his now much more impressive armor and body (including the new wings). And the enemy can feel the sudden holy energy just pouring out of him and all they have time to think of is "crud" before he's on them, a flaming angel of vengeance and martial mastery. Yes, I like this a lot :D. Thank you for all the help by the way (and the reminder that I need to catch up on my reading. I can't believe I forgot valeritas after it bugged me so much. I can't wait for the third book to come out so it's finally revealed what the heck it means). I do have another question though. Would it be possible to have the caster level of the ring be one? I thought there was some rule that said that the caster level had to be high enough to cast the spell in question, but I cant seem to find it

[erradin]

I thought it sounded familiar. I really need to re-re-read that series, it has been to long. And I got that same pharmaceutical's company too when it was googled. But anyways, I kind of like it actually. I'm just picturing this grizzly, 40 year old mercenary looking dude in roughed up plate armor walking up with his greatsword drawn causally and then just saying, barely audibly, "Valeritas" and boom, giant white wings burst out from his back as golden white flames cover his now much more impressive armor and body (including the new wings). And the enemy can feel the sudden holy energy just pouring out of him and all they have time to think of is "crud" before he's on them, a flaming angel of vengeance and martial mastery. Yes, I like this a lot :D. Thank you for all the help by the way (and the reminder that I need to catch up on my reading. I can't believe I forgot valeritas after it bugged me so much. I can't wait for the third book to come out so it's finally revealed what the heck it means). I do have another question though. Would it be possible to have the caster level of the ring be one? I thought there was some rule that said that the caster level had to be high enough to cast the spell in question, but I cant seem to find it

Hehe, re-re-read. I know the feeling! I must have read both books 3 or 4 times waiting for the next one. And that sounds like an awesome display, just exploding into a figure of divine power! You can also use it after diving off of a cliff for sheer dramatic effect. The flight effect makes it pretty fantastic, too. He's gonna be pretty Boss!

To your question: yes, a spell stored in an item must be placed at a minimum of the level required to cast it. So the minimum on Angelic Aspect, Greater is 15. I made it 20 in that calculation for symmetry, so the durations would work out nicely. I don't reccomend trying to place Energy Body at a level 1 caster level either, if you still want 20 minutes of it. The amount of money required to simply increase the number of charges is notably more.