How do you get Su abilities from your Wild Shape?

[SangoProduction]

Well, Su abilities are pretty nice, often times. So, getting them would be even nicer. Are there ways?

EDIT: Seems there's the Savage Species feat, Assume SU Ability. Not updated, and 3.0. But, I hear that that which is not updated is still official.
Still, I'd love a 3.5 version.

[sleepyphoenixx]

It depends on the forms you want. Dragon Wild Shape and Exalted Wild Shape get (Su) abilities natively, but they're limited in forms. Exalted WS especially since most animals don't have (Su) abilities, and it doesn't work on plants.
Assume Supernatural Ability only works on one specific ability of one specific form, so it limits you pretty heavily.
The best option is probably Metamorphic Transfer (XPH), but you have to get the necessary manifester level. Either play a race with a psi-like ability like Half Giant, Maenad or Duergar or get one with a template like Phrenic. There's also the host feats in CPsi, but they require you to be a Kalashtar (who get Mindlink as a PLA anyway).

[eggynack]

The best option is probably Metamorphic Transfer (XPH), but you have to get the necessary manifester level.
That's a pretty beautiful ability right there. Seems great on a psion//druid build, so probably gonna put that in the relevant section of the handbook. Fancy.

Edit: And by probably gonna, I mean just did five seconds ago. Might need to fix up the formatting a bit, cause I feel like the paragraph broke awkwardly and there's still a bit I want to add, but that is a thing for another day.

[SangoProduction]

Pretty nice

[Vaz]

That's a pretty beautiful ability right there. Seems great on a psion//druid build, so probably gonna put that in the relevant section of the handbook. Fancy.

Edit: And by probably gonna, I mean just did five seconds ago. Might need to fix up the formatting a bit, cause I feel like the paragraph broke awkwardly and there's still a bit I want to add, but that is a thing for another day.

There is an FAQ which hampers its effectiveness and needs some clarification in game regarding 'always on' abilities.

While not wild shape, I used it in my Tsagoth build in Iron Chef to take the form of a visilight and use its charisma drain ability. This ability is 'always on' and makes grapples drain charisma, while others have Su fear auras etc.

Ruling these abilities to be only one use is either excellent economy or broken depending on power level, while saying each activation is a single use (and in the case of the grapple is this each time a 1d6 is drained, or each time a grapple is initiated?) can make those useless Su abilities.

Incidentally an Ardent 3 with Practised manifester as well can pick up Expansion and conpression and then increase to 2 sizes larger in their chosen shape. Of course, that trades your druid spellcasting to fall behind by a pair of levels.

[WhamBamSam]

That's a pretty beautiful ability right there. Seems great on a psion//druid build, so probably gonna put that in the relevant section of the handbook. Fancy.

Edit: And by probably gonna, I mean just did five seconds ago. Might need to fix up the formatting a bit, cause I feel like the paragraph broke awkwardly and there's still a bit I want to add, but that is a thing for another day.I pretty much always recommend Kalashtar on MoMF builds because Metamorphic Transfer is so good.


There is an FAQ which hampers its effectiveness and needs some clarification in game regarding 'always on' abilities.

While not wild shape, I used it in my Tsagoth build in Iron Chef to take the form of a visilight and use its charisma drain ability. This ability is 'always on' and makes grapples drain charisma, while others have Su fear auras etc.

Ruling these abilities to be only one use is either excellent economy or broken depending on power level, while saying each activation is a single use (and in the case of the grapple is this each time a 1d6 is drained, or each time a grapple is initiated?) can make those useless Su abilities.

Incidentally an Ardent 3 with Practised manifester as well can pick up Expansion and conpression and then increase to 2 sizes larger in their chosen shape. Of course, that trades your druid spellcasting to fall behind by a pair of levels.I don't think Expansion stacks with Wild Shape. It's still a effect that increases size if you increase your size as a result of changing form.

I too mentioned Visilight as a cheese option in my MMT+Outsider Alter Self use in Slime Lord. I even had Zceryll summons to feed it.

[Vaz]

Hmm. Unsure. If you were Expanded, then changed shape, then it would nullify, under "One effect makes another irrelevant", but there's nothing which prevents you from increasing your size category.

There is also the mention of it working with regards to spells; Wild Shape and Alternate Forms are not spells. Although it mentions "magical effects", the rules governing stacking only seem to reference spells, and mostly in regards to "identical spells". And you're changing into the form of an animal/plant/whatever of a particular size, and then applying a change in size.

Spell stacking is convoluted and poorly written so it's best left to a DM's arbitrations, but within a reasonable reading of them applied equally, I can't see why they'd rule in that manner unless a DM was being excessively cruel and biased (perhaps in an attempt to further balance a druid, but of course, you do slow spellcasting and Wild Shape accrual of abilities down to do so) and applying "does your size change? If so, same effect." reasoning.

[WhamBamSam]

Hmm. Unsure. If you were Expanded, then changed shape, then it would nullify, under "One effect makes another irrelevant", but there's nothing which prevents you from increasing your size category.

There is also the mention of it working with regards to spells; Wild Shape and Alternate Forms are not spells. Although it mentions "magical effects", the rules governing stacking only seem to reference spells, and mostly in regards to "identical spells". And you're changing into the form of an animal/plant/whatever of a particular size, and then applying a change in size.

Spell stacking is convoluted and poorly written so it's best left to a DM's arbitrations, but within a reasonable reading of them applied equally, I can't see why they'd rule in that manner unless a DM was being excessively cruel and biased (perhaps in an attempt to further balance a druid, but of course, you do slow spellcasting and Wild Shape accrual of abilities down to do so) and applying "does your size change? If so, same effect." reasoning.The rules for stacking size increases are actually stricter than usual.


Multiple effects that increase size do not stack, which means (among other things) that you can’t use a second manifestation of this power to further expand yourself.Emphasis mine. If you Wild Shape into a larger creature, you're under an effect that increases your size. Enlarge Person says "magical effects," which would leave room for, say, Mountain Rage (assuming you Mountain Raged to large then increased your size), but probably not a (Su) effect like Wild Shape, and the Expansion text might just create a new rule that applies to all size increasing abilities.