If you were Wizard 20 [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Troacctid

2015-09-26, 04:06 AM

First I'd read my spellbook. Then I'd figure out how it works and test if I can actually cast spells, because holy **** it's actual magic. Start with cantrips and work my way up to more complicated spells.

I'd make it a top priority to research a spell to bind my spellbook to me so it can't get lost or stolen. That's really important.

A big question, I think, is what kind of familiar to get. If Improved Familiars are on the table, then probably a lantern archon? I like the imp, especially the Commune SLA, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable with my familiar being evil. If it has to be a normal familiar, then I think I lean towards a rat. They don't take up much space, they offer a good +2 to Fortitude, they have scent, and I think they might have the best "Speak with others of its kind" ability.

Honestly, if I could pick any class, I think I'd much rather wake up as a Cleric. In real life, when you can't handwave past the study time, having to manually learn and prepare your spells as complex rituals out of a book is a real drawback. I'd rather have magic that's just granted to me by a deity in exchange for my faith. (Assuming I get a nice deity, at least. Most mainstream religions would be acceptable to me.)

Xar Zarath

2015-09-26, 05:43 AM

Sorry i will amend original post. You only have your spellbook with spells known. You can choose any familiar that floats your boat

NevinPL

2015-09-26, 05:54 AM

Call my doctor for stronger pills.

khadgar567

2015-09-26, 06:10 AM

Call my doctor for stronger pills.

agreed than maybe start my unlimited succubus works to became most important pimp/ celebrity in the world

before forgetting you said universe right not planet so create a spell to space travel and discover the new frontiers maybe found sexy aliens or tyranids like species to destroy the earth muhahahahaha!

Sredni Vashtar

2015-09-26, 06:29 AM

I wouldn't have to go to work on Saturday.

Also, world domination.

But mostly no work on weekends.

Seharvepernfan

2015-09-26, 07:28 AM

So, what would you do now that you're an uber wizard?

I'd use divinations to find a new source of gold, then use summoned xorns to mine it. Then, with the gold, I'd bind some ghaele's to help me cure the world of pathocracy. Not gonna get too far into that, but as a wiz 20 I'm fairly confident that it could be done. After that, I'd help the species out with science, and when I felt I needed some time off, I'd get around to having some real fun (I'd feel very guilty if I didn't try to make the world into a utopia as quickly as possible, but I'd be itching to do the following the whole time).

I'd probably start off with small time stuff, like running around with jump/exp retreat/haste. Running around all night while invisible would be tons of fun, going places where I wouldn't otherwise be able to go. Iron body to break stuff and walk down rapids or along the bottoms of rivers. Polymorph to swim like a fish, fly like a bird, run like a deer, etc (polymorph spells would be tons of fun in your romantic life as well, and I'll leave it at that). Spider Climb and Fly for obvious stuff. I'd use disintegrate to dig out a cave (or just find one) on some island or other remote place in a cool-looking area, and use teleport to get to it (probably several of these around the world). Disguise self and tongues to blend in anywhere in the world. Jump off something really high and use feather fall at the last second. Water breathing to just swim around freely for a day (yes, I'd get it in addition to iron body and polymorph). With Nezram's Amethyst Aura, I wouldn't have to worry about poison or disease. Greater Invisibility+Silence=tons of fun as well.

There are a lot of places around the world I'd like to see and mess around in, for no real purpose other than to experience them. Knowing that I'm a quickened spell away from safety at all times, there are a lot of (relatively) normal things I'd do as well, like riding a dirtbike down a mountain. I would never want for resources (like food, vehicles, money, houses), because as a wiz 20 those are easy pickins. I've always wanted to just walk/stow across the country/world. Those are all things I've always wanted to do. I'm sure that with time, I'd come up with more creative ideas.

My curiosity would get the better of me, and I'd go around snooping in places like area 51. I *could* go to other planets/space, but I'm not sure I'd ever have the guts to try it. One wrong assumption about a spell protecting me in a given environment and bam, I'm dead. Actually, I'm sure that with 19+ Int and access to other genius-beings and people, I'd eventually get around to it, if only to help out the rest of the species with space tech.

We can't go to other planes, but can we become incorporeal? Eladrin form would quickly become my favorite spell.

As I tend strongly towards transmutation and illusion, and have no desire to be famous or to interact socially with maybe a few exceptions, most of the world would never suspect I exist. Total freedom, except that I have to mind my remaining daily slots and durations, and my low wisdom forgetfulness. I always thought it would be awesome to be a greenstar adept in real life, assuming I could polymorph back into a human if I wanted. I'd probably give up 9th level spells for the 10th level ability, but I'd sure miss those caster levels (there's probably a better alternative anyway). I'd probably be a diviner, giving up necromancy.

ExLibrisMortis

2015-09-26, 07:50 AM

I'd probably try to visit Jupiter, or the Sun. Work your way up from the Moon, to Mars, to Venus and so on.

Also, find a way to become a StP Erudite instead. But that's more of a sideline.

Xar Zarath

2015-09-26, 08:03 AM

...We can't go to other planes, but can we become incorporeal? Eladrin form would quickly become my favorite spell.

Yes you can...you could even create a magic item to confer the spell continuously but you would have to pay the costs involved...gp and xp whatever applies.

Xar Zarath

2015-09-26, 08:07 AM

As a Wizard, I wouldn't mind coming out to the world...after I set up a safe haven maybe on some other planet. Going around being a celebrity would be nice for a few decades and if I ever get bored, go travel the universe and catalogue the stars and make some new spells.

Maybe after a few millennia when civilisation is over, I could help kickstart the new age of Man but with my immortal hand guiding it. Or heck, just stay on Earth and have my own reality show...

What's Happening With the Wizard, coming to you this fall on *insert channel name*

Strigon

2015-09-26, 08:16 AM

Work your way up from the Moon, to Mars, to Venus and so on.

Go to Mars; freak out the NASA workers watching the Curiosity rover.

Rule the world.

Elkad

2015-09-26, 08:25 AM

Divination + Teleport Circle means I can start finding and building a network of links to other habitable planets.

I'd become a CG god of galactic colonization. Emigration would be free to everyone, and interfering with the right of others to travel would be dealt with harshly.

That would cover the first few millenia. Immortality is obviously key, through just about any method. I'd be perfectly happy doing my interactions via proxy, so as long as there aren't other spellcasters, I don't foresee any problems remaining safe, and I'd use divinations to reinforce that.

Rubik

2015-09-26, 08:30 AM

Break the epic cap via Curse of Lycanthropy + thought bottle + negative levels, and research an epic spell that recreates the D&D multiverse (including inner, outer, and transitive planes), but that also blocks the Material Plane off from incursion by anything but the caster of the spell.

Then retrain to a psionic build, using the existence of the StP erudite ACF to get all the powers and all the spells, then gestalt myself using options like Polymorph Any Object (rock to human) + Mind Seed + retraining + Fusion + Astral Seed. Also abuse Supernatural Transformation (Psionics) and a level of ardent so I have full psionic manifesting (and spellcasting) with a minimum number of levels expended. Make sure I have access to the magic mantle for enforced transparency and access to the dweomerkeeper's Supernatural Spell ability for several component-free castings per day (with XP being one of those components).

Then I'd start knocking out a lot of the biggest problems in the world, such as injury and disease. I'd ruin the pharmaceutical companies, end slavery, destroy all the terrorist organizations and drug cartels, forcibly replace all the evil tyrannical governments of the world with something a lot more humanitarian, fix overpopulation, repair all the destruction humanity has wrought on the environment, destroy all of Earth's radioactive reactors and weapons, institute magical energy generators for infinite clean energy, and so on.

Following that, I'd found an institute dedicated to fixing various problems, as well as encouraging education, self-empowerment, free thought, ambition, and the general advancement of humanity without succumbing to all the negativity that gave rise to all the problems I just fixed.

Then I'd probably go explore this world, and eventually move on to new worlds. Maybe go see what awesome things I could find in the new multiverse I created. I'd leave a way for Earth to contact me if needed, though, and check in from time to time to make sure nobody's screwed things up while I've been gone.

I certainly wouldn't want to rule anything, because taking on that level of responsibility would suck. Leaving the world a much better place than I found it sounds like a much better idea.

Vaz

2015-09-26, 09:20 AM

Use Divinations to win the lottery and beat the odds when making financial decisions. Finally figure out what the wife means when she says "I'm fine".

AvatarVecna

2015-09-26, 09:47 AM

Use my array of high-level divination spells to figure out why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch.

...

Wait, so I wake up as a Wizard 20? I wake up as a Wizard 20?!

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--SYEhHwn1--/fdlc5txkr83fg8dakdkw.jpg

Ignoring the above obvious flaw with this scenario, I guess I should put my char-op knowledge to good use and optimize my build. Of course, I'll be optimizing the build I have to specifically make it possible for me to redo my build whenever I want, allowing me to specialize in whatever task happens to be at hand. I'll almost certainly aim for reaching Vermin Lord 10, and then go to a bee farm and steal the bees. According to this page (http://www.honeybeesonline.com/how-many-bee-hives-to-start-with/), those particular beekeepers once had 30 hives in one bee yard, and according to google, the average hive has 20k-30k in the winter and 60k-80k in the summer, so let's average it to about 50000 per hive. That gives me 1.5 million bees to work with, which means as a Vermin Lord my hivemind will give me casting as a Sorcerer of level ~30000, bonus Int/Cha of +~30000, ~30000 bonus skill points/feats per HD, and ~30000 actions/round. Yeah, that sounds like a good start.

At this point, I start putting out super-layered, super-metamagic'd, super-metamagic-reduced Time Stop spells. Each Twin'd Repeat'd Empower'd Maximize'd Time Stop gives me 4d2+20 rounds (average of 26); with how many 9th level spells I have available, such spells should give me a few days of Time Stop, which is enough Time for me to regain my spell slots. I will never not be in Time Stop again unless I actually want to affect the world. Incidentally, my goal at this point is figuring out a path to immortality for me and my bees...shouldn't be that difficult, considering what's available to me. With this much power to throw around, I'll be able to shield us from everything, assuming we're not in Time Stop.

At this point, the most important thing is making sure that Big Government doesn't figure out what my powers are, so I guess I need to Mind Rape everybody who knows about it into not knowing about it; every swarm in my hivemind should probably cast Mind Blank on itself as well, for good measure. At this point, I basically have thousands of spells at every spell level every day, and thousands of actions per round to work with, all skills maxed out, and whatever feats I actually want. With a build like that, World Domination is pretty much inevitable, unless somebody else has beaten me to the punch.

Do I even need to mention that I'd use my fantastical powers to get laid? I don't even mean like Mind Rape or anything, just "I'll cast something on your behalf". Everybody has a price.

Afgncaap5

2015-09-26, 10:36 AM

Absolutely no world domination. I have 9th level magic; a world is both unnecessary and would be an impractical headache that just ate up my free time.

I'd generate some quick cash, head back to college, and begin getting some training. No need for degrees in anything, but I want a firmer grasp of the world before I start breaking it. I assume my skills are increased to whatever they'd be at 20, and while I'm guessing I can't homebrew anything, there's bound to be some *awesome* stuff that I can do with a maxed out Craft (Alchemy) skill and the equivalent of a doctorate in chemistry, just for starters.

I'd probably also start setting up divinations to keep tabs on the development of Artificial Intelligence. I'm guessing my equivalent of an "Int Score" increased to keep up with my spells, but if an "intelligence explosion" happens with computers the way that some are predicting, then humanity could be in jeopardy. I'm guessing it won't... artificial intelligence doesn't mean artificial drive or desire, after all... but it's still probably warranted to perform some periodic divinations just in case there's any particular AI project that we might want to stall in development.

Dealing with the unknowns, there's a lot of known issues in the world. Even as a wizard I couldn't (or at least wouldn't) want to solve them all (and I'm guessing that I wasn't allowed to take the Wedded To History feat, and the other methods of immortality have always seemed unfun to me, so I wouldn't have *time* to solve them all as they developed) so I'd start figuring out what level of problem I should deal with. People dying of dehydration out there could suddenly get water (who's gonna stop me from delivering it to them? No embargo could realistically nix that) but I don't know how I'd feel about toppling cruel or dictatorial governments, at least not in quick swoops. We don't want to make power vacuums after all, and as pointed out before *I* don't want to rule things.

Now, there's a realistic limit to how many spells I'd have in a spellbook, and spell research takes funding. I'd probably set up a crowdfunding platform online and let people who wanted to support my magical works donate their cash when able. Assuming people like the work I'm doing, it'd keep money rolling in for my magic research and continued doctorate work (four PhD's and counting, or their equivalent!) Ideally I'm also investing in the stock market at this point to support the companies that I like while also getting an ever-increasing set of dividends. I'd probably build a tower (because Wizard) as a publicly visible "base" (even if i'd probably spend more time elsewhere as said tower would be a notable target for people who don't like me).

Now, while I'm trying not to involve myself too much in the world's political landscape, I'd absolutely try to influence artistic aesthetics. The aforementioned tower would be an art deco masterpiece (I'm sure there are some architects out there who'd love to work on something like that) because I never quite forgave World War 2 for killing the art deco movement in the States right when it was getting good and sort of ending one of the United States' most iconic kinds of art. Speaking of art iconic of the US, I'd promote Jazz and Blues music, and probably Ska... nothing wrong with dub step, house music, and the whole dance-party craze that's goin' on, but I only like that in small doses. Also I'll get a rocking chair for *other* ways that I complain about changing times. *Rock, rock, rock*

I'd also try to do a lot of travelling and try to meet people, both noteworthy and mundane. I've never seen the Great Wall of China, and I've never had hot chocolate in Seattle (I know coffee should be the go-to there, but I hate coffee... don't worry, coffee lovers, I won't try to change *that* public aesthetic, you can keep your addiction to a beverage that tastes like moose ears while claiming that you "like it" because it doesn't taste "that bad"). I'd also like to talk to a number of people... whoever I get that hot chocolate from, for instance, modern scientists and philosophers, heads of state, people I meet on trains (who needs teleport when you can travel by train, I say with my best Sheldon Cooper impersonation) and the like. Might be fun to get a monthly chess game going with the Pope, the President, the royalty and/or elected officials of other countries, and the like.

Oh, I'd also create a secret second identity to try to become a published author. I don't want people buying my books just because I'm that crazy wizard who keeps tampering with things. I'd probably write some feel-good sci-fi books, maybe some mysteries.

Also, I'm leveraging a lot to getting to other planets. I'm giving NASA, and other private groups, some of my funding to improve their work so I can get there on human-built spaceships while also going there under my own power. (Hey, if and when something happens to me I'm gone, and I don't know if other Wizards are even possible; humans can't just rely on magic forever, after all.)

Arael666

2015-09-26, 10:40 AM

Finally figure out what the wife means when she says "I'm fine".

Let me stop you right there. World domination, world utopia, creating entire new universes are completely achievable goals, but there are some things that will never be acomplished, even if you're a 20th level wizard.

Rubik

2015-09-26, 10:44 AM

Immortality is easy. A simple Polymorph Any Object every few years to give yourself a younger body is all it would take. Just make sure it's undispellable, and since you live in a world where you're the only magical being, that's not hard. Though I'd still guard against it, just in case.

RolandDeschain

2015-09-26, 10:46 AM

Let me stop you right there. World domination, world utopia, creating entire new universes are completely achievable goals, but there are some things that will never be acomplished, even if you're a 20th level wizard.

I agree, this is likely to unravel existence as we know it...let's try to keep this somewhat realistic :smallsmile:

kalasulmar

2015-09-26, 11:07 AM

I would get Zeppelin back together.

Cirrylius

2015-09-26, 11:16 AM

So, what would you do now you're a uber wizard?

Retire on a W20's WBL. Whatever can't be bought with almost eight literal tons of gold can be bought with trade goods as starting equipment.

...I remember when I was less of a grownup:smallfrown:

Rubik

2015-09-26, 11:44 AM

Retire on a W20's WBL. Whatever can't be bought with almost eight literal tons of gold can be bought with trade goods as starting equipment.

...I remember when I was less of a grownup:smallfrown:I'd rather use the WBL to "buy" magic items and acquire spells, use divination to win the lottery, and make a demiplane out of rubies, diamonds, emeralds, and platinum.

If you can't figure out how to live comfortably on 24,400,000 cubic feet of ridiculously valuable gems and precious metals, then you probably dumped your Int and can't cast Genesis to begin with.

I've always thought it would be fun to go out and play in my own fanfictions. That is, start with some fictional world and insert myself in it, with a few random changes to mix things up. Voldemort isn't nearly as terrifying when you can wipe the floor with him with little to do, and he and his minions are evil, insane, and stupid enough that tormenting them would be fun.

Afgncaap5

2015-09-26, 01:25 PM

Just make sure it's undispellable, and since you live in a world where you're the only magical being, that's not hard. Though I'd still guard against it, just in case.

Right. After all, don't forget: you got these twenty wizard levels *somehow*.

And whatever *is* providing all this awesomeness might not have the same rules interpretations as I do, so certain tricks might not be as surefire as I'd like.

Cirrylius

2015-09-26, 01:40 PM

If you can't figure out how to live comfortably on 24,400,000 cubic feet of ridiculously valuable gems and precious metals, then you probably dumped your Int and can't cast Genesis to begin with.

:smalltongue:

Dude, just one cubic foot is living comfortably.

Curmudgeon

2015-09-26, 01:50 PM

Begin farming ambrosia with any of a number of common methods. It acts as a substitute for XP in all ways but adding more levels ...
No, it doesn't.
This physical manifestation of joy, called ambrosia, can be used in the creation of good magic items, as a special spell component, or as a druglike substance (with no addictive qualities).
...
Good spellcasters can use ambrosia in magic item creation. Each dose provides the equivalent of 2 experience points needed to create the item. A dose of ambrosia can also be used as an optional spell component (see Chapter 3).

As an optional component, ambrosia automatically increases the effective caster level of a single good spell by +2.
Ambrosia doesn't do anything for spells with an XP cost, which is the specific problem I mentioned.

Rubik

2015-09-26, 01:56 PM

Ambrosia doesn't do anything for spells with an XP cost, which is the specific problem I mentioned.Yay dweomerkeeper.

Curmudgeon

2015-09-26, 02:07 PM

Yay dweomerkeeper.
Supernatural Spell is a very spiffy ability. How is that relevant to a Wizard 20 who can't gain any XP?

Jay R

2015-09-26, 02:33 PM

I don't think I'dt quit my job immediately.

I'd stick around and make my boss's life a living hell for awhile first.

Rubik

2015-09-26, 02:35 PM

Supernatural Spell is a very spiffy ability. How is that relevant to a Wizard 20 who can't gain any XP?It's entirely possible to gain levels without the ability to gain XP. I can also think of several ways to change one's level setup, some of which only take a couple of rounds to do, as well as ways to gestalt oneself, even if gestalt isn't in play.

'Tain't hard at all.

Curmudgeon

2015-09-26, 02:39 PM

It's entirely possible to gain levels without the ability to gain XP. I can also think of several ways to change one's level setup, some of which only take a couple of rounds to do, as well as ways to gestalt oneself, even if gestalt isn't in play.

'Tain't hard at all.
Really? I think these would require DM permission, and we're contemplating a real-world setting without a DM.

Rubik

2015-09-26, 02:40 PM

Really? I think these would require DM permission, and we're contemplating a real-world setting without a DM.I think we're contemplating a RAW world that's close enough to the real one to actually be usable IRL.

Or are we no longer in the Playground for some reason?

Nifft

2015-09-26, 03:00 PM

IMHO the biggest benefit that magic will provide is a relatively cheap way to get a lot of people and mass out of the Earth's gravity well, and thereby bootstrap space exploration.

I assume that this is restricted to pure Wizard 20 -- no rebuilding, no PrCs, and what about alternate class features?

If we're restricted to Wizard levels, then a feat like Collegiate Wizard becomes more valuable -- if non-Core feats are available. Are they? What about magic items? Templates like Spell Stitched for my undead?

How about spells bought via Wealth-by-Level up through level 20? Or do I just wake up as a level 20 Wizard with whatever spells I get from the class, but nothing else? If so, that's still quite viable, it just needs a bit more set-up time.

- - - Set Up Time - - -

1 - Find a place to do my thing, and gather resources. Dominate person is going to be helpful in this regard. I need to craft some gear, and I need to bind some helpers. If extract gift is a legal spell, I need time and space and sapphires and sacrifices.

2 - Figure out if D&D metaphysics is valid here -- i.e. do humans have souls? Can I extract souls and use them in place of item crafting XP? Can I sell those souls to bound fiends as payment?
2.a - If souls do work as power sources, research some custom spells: detect child-abuser, detect lobbyist, and detect telemarketer.
2.b - Bind some Celestials and have them check my morality score every so often. Try to optimize a few fast & easy Good deeds.

3 - Find out how to survive and cast spells in space. That means at least crafting a Necklace of Adaptation, but presumably more, because radiation and high-velocity space junk are also potentially troublesome things.

4 - Greater teleport to the Moon and build a Moon Base. Find out how fabricate interacts with lunar regolith.

5 - Greater teleport to the asteroid belt. Find out how fabricate interacts with asteroids.

- - - Eventual Goals - - -

1 - Moon base.
1.a - Find out if wifi signals propagate through Ring Gates.
1.b - Find out how lasers and sunlight propagate through Ring Gates.
1.c - Find out if I can exploit the fact that greater teleport has a weight limit rather than a mass limit.

2 - O'Neill cylinders. Access to Moon base via pairs of permanent teleport circles.
2.a - Find out what the weight limit for greater teleport means at zero G.

3 - Bind some high-rank Angels (probably Planetars). Ask them what they'd do if they were bound to service for a year, and instructed to "do whatever you think is best to help the people of this world". If they don't seem likely to smite me personally, let them do exactly that, and monitor the results as best I can from my moon base.

4 - Once space industry is thriving and people are building more O'Neill cylinders without my help, greater teleport to Alpha Centauri and start building with whatever I found out there. Paired teleportation circles to & from the Moon Base once I have a livable habitat out there.

5 - Explore. Expand. Exploit. Excelsior.

Troacctid

2015-09-26, 03:02 PM

No, it doesn't.

Ambrosia doesn't do anything for spells with an XP cost, which is the specific problem I mentioned.

Obvious workaround: use it to craft a scroll of the spell. That should do the trick, right?

Rubik

2015-09-26, 03:05 PM

Excelsior.ex·cel·si·or
ikˈselsēər/
Noun

"Thin curly wood shavings used for packing or stuffing."

Nifft

2015-09-26, 03:19 PM

ex·cel·si·or
ikˈselsēər/
Noun

"Thin curly wood shavings used for packing or stuffing."

Keep scrolling.

legomaster00156

2015-09-26, 03:31 PM

If I was a Wizard 20? Cast Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion daily for comfortable shelter and feasts awaiting me whenever I'm home. Have Unseen Servants follow me everywhere. Cast Transformation to become one of the world's greatest warriors. Charm my way to the top of the political ladder.
Really, no matter what I do, I end up changing the world. Everything beyond that is just cantrips. :smallcool:

Rubik

2015-09-26, 03:39 PM

Cast Transformation to become one of the world's greatest warriors.Assuming that real life is an E6 world, you already are. The highest BAB you can get in E6 is +6, and you, being a wizard 20, are at +10. You have access to a ridiculous number of buffing spells, and that's not even including Polymorph or Shapechange.

That's far more powerful than losing all your spells for a measly +20 BAB. Not to mention that you can use domain wizard to grab Divine Power and have +20 BAB, temp hp, and ability score boosts, and all without losing your spellcasting.

legomaster00156

2015-09-26, 04:04 PM

Assuming that real life is an E6 world, you already are. The highest BAB you can get in E6 is +6, and you, being a wizard 20, are at +10. You have access to a ridiculous number of buffing spells, and that's not even including Polymorph or Shapechange.

That's far more powerful than losing all your spells for a measly +20 BAB. Not to mention that you can use domain wizard to grab Divine Power and have +20 BAB, temp hp, and ability score boosts, and all without losing your spellcasting.
Oh, believe me, I know that I'm already one of the most powerful with a +10 BAB and 20d4 HP. Transformation is just icing on the cake.

Rubik

2015-09-26, 04:09 PM

Oh, believe me, I know that I'm already one of the most powerful with a +10 BAB and 20d4 HP. Transformation is just icing on the cake.A cake that destroys your ability to cast spells.

*Gasp* The cake! She is a lie!

I'm going to Hell now.

Nifft

2015-09-26, 04:10 PM

Assuming that real life is an E6 world

How do I get to your real life from Earth?

Nobody here can even cast 1st level spells, let alone 3rd level dweomers.

Rubik

2015-09-26, 04:14 PM

How do I get to your real life from Earth?

Nobody here can even cast 1st level spells, let alone 3rd level dweomers.What does that have to do with real life being E6? :smallconfused:

MorgromTheOrc

2015-09-26, 05:51 PM

How do I get to your real life from Earth?

Nobody here can even cast 1st level spells, let alone 3rd level dweomers.

We're all NPC's.

legomaster00156

2015-09-26, 06:03 PM

We're all NPC's.
So, where are the Adepts?

MorgromTheOrc

2015-09-26, 06:21 PM

So, where are the Adepts?

Easy, old stories of people performing miracles are various leveled adepts, there are no more prophets or whatever in the modern day(that we know of, darkness once a day isn't impressive enough to warrant anything but magicians). And level six would only be the best of the best anyways, the average isn't doing more than a talented street magician.

legomaster00156

2015-09-26, 06:29 PM

Easy, old stories of people performing miracles are various leveled adepts, there are no more prophets or whatever in the modern day(that we know of, darkness once a day isn't impressive enough to warrant anything but magicians). And level six would only be the best of the best anyways, the average isn't doing more than a talented street magician.
So, we're in a ridiculously restrictive low-magic E6 world, and yet the GM thought it was a good idea to allow firearms (and nuclear weapons!) in the setting?

Rubik

2015-09-26, 06:31 PM

So, where are the Adepts?They're all over the place. They just live in a dead magic plane. Can't cast spells if there's no magic, and they don't even know they've got them.

MorgromTheOrc

2015-09-26, 06:34 PM

They're all over the place. They just live in a dead magic plane. Can't cast spells if there's no magic, and they don't even know they've got them.

Like this idea too.

So, we're in a ridiculously restrictive low-magic E6 world, and yet the GM thought it was a good idea to allow firearms (and nuclear weapons!) in the setting?

What can I say, we all go through our steampunk phases :smalltongue: plus us being NPCs it could be the set up for some grand campaign for whoever the wizard is, and stuff starts from there.

legomaster00156

2015-09-26, 06:36 PM

The 20th century must have been a hell of a campaign to manage.

BRKNdevil

2015-09-26, 07:00 PM

Who would oppose that? No one that's who.

You forgot the Republicans. JK

MorgromTheOrc

2015-09-26, 07:17 PM

The 20th century must have been a hell of a campaign to manage.

At least the GM knows how to make BBEGs we can really hate.

ryu

2015-09-26, 07:58 PM

No, it doesn't.

Ambrosia doesn't do anything for spells with an XP cost, which is the specific problem I mentioned.

Just make magic items of those spells. This isn't hard.

Edit: Dang ninjas...

Curmudgeon

2015-09-26, 08:36 PM

Just make magic items of those spells. This isn't hard.
Got to disagree on that point.

Casting Time: 1 day
That's 24 hours without rest, doing nothing but collecting the equivalent of 2 XP. For maximum efficiency you could load up your spell slots with multiples of Distilled Joy and a spell like Ray of Resurgence to alleviate fatigue from casting nonstop for a day. If you force yourself to hydrate and eat to maximum capacity you might get 6 Distilled Joy castings and one refresh of prepared spells per week, for the equivalent of 624 XP annually. You need a minimum of 5,000 XP for a scroll of Wish, so you can manage one such spell no more frequently than every 8 years.

Do you think you can stand to work nearly non-stop for almost a full decade to create one scroll of Wish? I don't think I've got that degree of dedication. I also don't think the average person's health could stand a full day of concentration and nothing else (no drinking, eating, sleeping, or exercise), repeated several times every week. Remember, you're a Wizard; your total number of Conjuration (healing) spells is zero.

Rubik

2015-09-26, 08:48 PM

Got to disagree on that point.

That's 24 hours without rest, doing nothing but collecting the equivalent of 2 XP. Happily, the spell's duration is permanent, so you receive ambrosia every time the target experiences joy until the spell is dispelled or the target dies.

Plus, there are ways to shorten the casting time, including Wishes from creatures you Planar Bind to give yourself Chaining Split Ray'd Ocular Spells in such a way as to affect lots of creatures at once, so now you can affect up to 42 creatures at a time (at CL 20). With two eyes, that's a total of 84 creatures permanently affected for the rest of their lives.

Work smarter, not harder, bro.

Troacctid

2015-09-26, 08:49 PM

Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability, from Spell Compendium. Allows your familiar to cast the spell for you, freeing you up to do something else. Eating and sleeping isn't a problem either, since there are a bunch of Improved Familiars that don't need to sleep. The duration is hours/level, so you'll need to boost that somehow to get to 24, but it shouldn't be too hard.

Curmudgeon

2015-09-26, 08:57 PM

Happily, the spell's duration is permanent, so you receive ambrosia every time the target experiences joy until the spell is dispelled or the target dies.
That's not what the spell description says. The duration is permanent in that the ambrosia doesn't go away; however, there's no recurring harvesting. To get more ambrosia you need to cast the spell again, and it must be on someone who isn't going to cause a spell stacking problem: i.e., it's got to be a new source of joy each casting.

Rubik

2015-09-26, 09:00 PM

That's not what the spell description says. The duration is permanent in that the ambrosia doesn't go away; however, there's no recurring harvesting. To get more ambrosia you need to cast the spell again, and it must be on someone who isn't going to cause a spell stacking problem: i.e., it's got to be a new source of joy each casting.But the ambrosia isn't the effect of the spell. The ability to produce it is. So if a creature is affected, it's affected permanently.

Curmudgeon

2015-09-26, 09:26 PM

But the ambrosia isn't the effect of the spell. The ability to produce it is. So if a creature is affected, it's affected permanently.
Yes, it is: for 1 dose collected.

Troacctid

2015-09-26, 09:35 PM

The Uncanny Forethought loophole could also let you cast it as a standard or full-round action.

ryu

2015-09-26, 09:37 PM

Yes, it is: for 1 dose collected.

Even if we take your ruling it still doesn't matter. All that is required is to craft wondrous architecture with the effect and have them casting regularly. Alternatively spell clocks. Alternatively alternatively ice assassin minions using casting time shortening cheese to cast it as a full round action. What you don't seem to understand is that spellcasting is an inherently exploitable and silly system, and no amount of harsh rulings is going to change that.

Atarax

2015-09-26, 09:40 PM

I don't think I'dt quit my job immediately.

I'd stick around and make my boss's life a living hell for awhile first.

A fine idea. I'm thinking improved invisibility combined with a swift smack to the back of the head. During a team meeting.

If I woke up as a 20th level wizard everything would be fine until someone pulled out in front of me in traffic. Then would begin a reign of pure evil and debauchery that would make Caligula look like a church boy. Yeahhhhhh.

Not really.

legomaster00156

2015-09-26, 09:59 PM

If I woke up as a 20th level wizard everything would be fine until someone pulled out in front of me in traffic. Then would begin a reign of pure evil and debauchery that would make Caligula look like a church boy. Yeahhhhhh.

Not really.
Oh, man. I COULD finally put a stop to the ****heads in big city traffic.

Or I could just Teleport. Hm...

Rubik

2015-09-26, 10:08 PM

Oh, man. I COULD finally put a stop to the ****heads in big city traffic.

Or I could just Teleport. Hm...I'd rather fly. I've always wanted to fly.

Unless it's raining. Then I'll have to cast Control Weather first, or maybe just surround myself in a bubble.

AvatarVecna

2015-09-26, 11:39 PM

If you can get Time Stop/short-range Teleportation to affect vehicles, you could pull off some pretty ridiculous maneuvers (from an outsider's perspective), assuming you have the reflexes for it. Alternatively, you could make your car (and everything in it) ethereal, and just drive through everything. This might cause a couple accidents, though, so you should probably make sure to Mind Rape everybody into forgetting you caused them make your car invisible as well, so that nobody tries to dodge the car they can't hit, and ends up dodging into another car they can.

Xar Zarath

2015-09-27, 02:26 AM

Svata

2015-09-27, 03:12 AM

First? Scry on, then tactically teleport to Tippy and several other wizard-expert forum members to form a task force dedicated to whatever the hell we feel like. From there? Anything is possible. Anything. Yes, even that.

Tvtyrant

2015-09-27, 03:30 AM

I would wish permanent portals between Earth and other planets into existence to make real space colonization a thing. With those I would make some terraforming robots and magic items which will make oxygen, water and level out the more dangerous terrain by hucking purify water, create water, move earth, and Hallow: Endure Elements every 6 seconds on each robot.

Strigon

2015-09-27, 07:41 AM

If the whole world found out you were a Wizard, I wonder how the governments and world leaders would react in the first few days, then first year or so? (Realistically I don't think the immediate response is tactical nuke)

Depends on where you are.
Within a first world country, I think you would be approached by some men in black suits (I don't follow this conspiracy theory stuff, but I also don't think they'd just let you live in their borders without keeping tabs on you.), while the other first world nations would keep careful watch on you from a distance.
Third world? Dictators trying to recruit/kill/study you all the time.

hewhosaysfish

2015-09-27, 08:09 AM

Step 1: Rejoice, I am a Wizard!
Step 2: Wait, how am I a wizard?
Step 3: Panic! Was Jack Chick right all along? Am I a Satanist?
Step 4: Spam various Divinations to uncover the source of my magical powers.
Step 5: Realise that if I wasn't already certain of the source of my powers then I can't know for sure that they work exactly as listed in the rulebooks and so I can't trust them then truthfully identify the source of my power!
Step 6: Mental breakdown.

Milo v3

2015-09-27, 08:22 AM

I'd try and research some spell for immensely fast travel to make up the fact teleporting doesn't work given the first rule.

Rubik

2015-09-27, 10:55 AM

Rakoa

2015-09-27, 01:31 PM

This breaks down on Step 3. I think you'd know if you worshiped Him (http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120225013138/powerpuff/images/1/11/Him_screaming.jpg).

It breaks down at Step 3 not because of Him, but because Jack Chick is incapable of being right about anything.

Rubik

2015-09-27, 02:34 PM

It breaks down at Step 3 not because of Him, but because Jack Chick is incapable of being right about anything.Oh, that goes without saying.

Xar Zarath

2015-09-27, 11:59 PM

...Third world? Dictators trying to recruit/kill/study you all the time.

Really? Wouldn't being third world, they wouldn't have the resources to even kill you let alone locate you if you were sufficiently savvy with your teleports and such...Come to think of it, I wouldn't be afraid in a third world country being a wizard. Nothing there could pose a significant problem...if they did try to kill you, you could deal with the problem in a thousand ways

Rubik

2015-09-28, 12:09 AM

Really? Wouldn't being third world, they wouldn't have the resources to even kill you let alone locate you if you were sufficiently savvy with your teleports and such...Come to think of it, I wouldn't be afraid in a third world country being a wizard. Nothing there could pose a significant problem...if they did try to kill you, you could deal with the problem in a thousand waysDon't third world countries tend to be militarily-installed dictatorships? All you'd need to do would be to murderize the one in charge and instate someone better using Suggestion on the heads of the occupying military.

ShaneMRoth

2015-09-28, 05:33 AM

First order of business: My Arcane Mark is going up everywhere. And with Improved Invisibility and Fly? I do mean everywhere. Like crop circles.

Second order of business: I will find a language I don't comprehend and I will then comprehend the crap out of that language. I will crack some impossible ancient language, write a book about it and see if it sells. It probably won't. So, I'll write it under a Pen Name.

Third order of business: Detect Evil and Detect Good. Make a list, check it twice. Use the Whisper Message spell to tell the Evil ones things like "I KNOW WHAT YOU DID..." "YOU SUCK..." "WHY DID YOU BUY FIFTY SHADES OF GREY... ARE YOU INSANE...?" and to tell the Good ones things like "IT WILL BE ALRIGHT..." "FOLLOW YOUR DREAMS..." "DON'T GIVE UP..." and "I MISS FIREFLY TOO..."

Fourth order of business: Use cantrips and my familiar to make the cutest animal videos EVER!!!! Make a fortune on YouTube.

Fifth Order of Business: Go to the World Series of Poker. Use Prying Eyes spell. Win World Series of Poker. Two years in a row. Then never win another tournament again. Write book with absurd poker strategy tips like "only eat food with gluten in it" and "never wear yellow" and "breath from your butt cheeks". NOTE: I will not use Prying Eyes to "Beat The House", that will only get me blackballed from casinos.

Sixth Order of Business: Feeblemind televangelists. Publicly. While they are standing in front of their congregations. Watch them go into hiding. Keep Feebleminding them.

Seventh Order of Business: Feeblemind professional psychic and mediums until they take the hint and decide to go into a more honorable line of work... like drug dealing.

Finally: Use Discern Location spell and Craigslist to help people find lost things. (Unless they Detect for Evil, in which case [BLEEP] them.) Then tell them "PAY IT FORWARD" and they have to help other people find lost things.

ILM

2015-09-28, 06:18 AM

You guys are so naïve. First order of business: locate anyone else that magically just got promoted to apex predator, and start taking them out.

Oh don't look at me like that, you know that's how it'll all end up anyway. I'm just getting a head start.

Strigon

2015-09-28, 07:38 AM

Nothing there could pose a significant problem...if they did try to kill you, you could deal with the problem in a thousand ways

Oh, you misunderstand.
I'm most certainly not trying to imply that you'd be in any danger, but they would most certainly try to either get you on their side, or eliminate you.

Also, a third-world country isn't necessarily without technology, and it certainly isn't likely to be without military technology.
They might not have supercarriers and fleets of drones patrolling the skies, but they certainly have a significant ground force (tanks, artillery, infantry weapons), since for most of them that's the only way they keep power.

Segev

2015-09-28, 09:22 AM

Taking over a 3rd-world country is easy. Various divinations to figure out all the key players. Legend lore to learn the full scope of its military, economic, and political structure and needs. Limited wish or other similar spell to gain the ability to speak the language fluently. Greater invisibility, then teleport into his private sanctum. Dominate person and mass charm person your way into controlling every key figure.

You don't even have to take direct control of their policies; just keep them under your thumb so if you want to change something, you can.

This is easiest with smaller olicgarchies and dictatorships, and harder with larger nations and republics and democracies.

Whether you go public or remain the power behind the throne is up to you. Bill yourself as a religious leader or philosophical reformer who's converted the leadership to your way of thinking, and then use your high Int and moderately high Wis (thanks to owl's wisdom, if nothing else) to better manage it and generally win over the hearts of the people through sheer excellent governance, and you should be pretty secure.

Arael666

2015-09-28, 10:03 AM

Am I the only one who wouldn't change a single thing in my life? I mean, besides teleporting to work, PAO my body into a fit and more easy on the eyes version of myself and improving the quality/productivity of my work with enhanced mental capacity?

Rubik

2015-09-28, 10:09 AM

Arael666

2015-09-28, 10:10 AM

You're one of those people who would keep working even if you won the lottery, aren't you. :smallyuk:

What can I say, I love my work :smallbiggrin:

Strigon

2015-09-28, 11:38 AM

Nibbens

2015-09-28, 11:41 AM

I would get Zeppelin back together.

This. Absolutely this. lol.

ShaneMRoth

2015-09-28, 02:14 PM

Am I the only one who wouldn't change a single thing in my life?

Yes. Yes, you are.

Rubik

2015-09-28, 02:19 PM

Yes. Yes, you are.Yeah. When all it would take would be a smidgen of forethought and a few seconds of chanting to relieve a great deal of suffering in the world, not doing so because you can't be bothered strikes me as kind of a jerk move. Even if a person is happy with his life, that doesn't mean that ignoring other people's suffering when he can fix it with virtually no effort is acceptable.

TheifofZ

2015-09-28, 02:46 PM

So, what would you do now you're a uber wizard?

I'd do the obvious thing: Whatever I wanted. I'm the next best thing to a friggen god.
I could spend one week mind-raping politicians to create a lasting peace, and then the next week blowing up England. (But not Ireland. Ireland's cool.)
I could stop time just so I can set up painfully obvious pranks in such a way that they'll be triggered in the next second.
I could fix global warming by creating an eternal winter.
... I could even watch movies at the theatre for free.
Mostly, I'd probably use that godlike power to make my friends happy though.
Aside from that, all bets are off.

Rubik

2015-09-28, 02:51 PM

I could fix global warming by creating an eternal winter.You probably should raise your Wis score enough to realize that this would only be a good idea at the planet's poles.

AvatarVecna

2015-09-28, 03:01 PM

I'd go the opposite direction with that one: I'd just sprinkle Permanent Wall of Fire spells throughout both poles. Let's see the governments of the world ignore that! Yeah, I realize this won't actually solve anything, it'll just make everything break down even faster.

TheifofZ

2015-09-28, 03:04 PM

You probably should raise your Wis score enough to realize that this would only be a good idea at the planet's poles.

First: there's a 'Could' not 'Would'. That is "What I would be capable of" not "what I will do"
Second: Strictly speaking, the only reason it's not a good idea is the fact that covering the planet in eternal snow would be astonishingly bad for humanity.
Third: I, as a 20th level Wizard could survive that. Aside from self-preservation, which we all know isn't an issue there, where on earth do you get the impression I would care enough not to? Honestly, I'm not a fan of humanity, and nature is resilient enough not to give a flying intercourse.
So Fourth: yes, I could, and likely would, cover the world in eternal winter. Because.
Also Fifth: if the temperature of the world never rises higher than 20 F, (something like 3 C), then global warming isn't an issue anymore. I see no issues.

Rubik

2015-09-28, 03:12 PM

nature is resilient enough not to give a flying intercourse.You realize that even a few weeks of that would cause irreparable damage to every ecosystem in the tropical zones, right? And if done in the summer, would do the same in the temperate zones. Much longer than that would end up as a global mass extinction event, and depending on just how long, could end up on par with the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event.

It'd take at least an epic spell to repair that kind of damage, unless time travel is involved.

Segev

2015-09-28, 03:12 PM

First: there's a 'Could' not 'Would'. That is "What I would be capable of" not "what I will do"
Second: Strictly speaking, the only reason it's not a good idea is the fact that covering the planet in eternal snow would be astonishingly bad for humanity.
Third: I, as a 20th level Wizard could survive that. Aside from self-preservation, which we all know isn't an issue there, where on earth do you get the impression I would care enough not to? Honestly, I'm not a fan of humanity, and nature is resilient enough not to give a flying intercourse.
So Fourth: yes, I could, and likely would, cover the world in eternal winter. Because.

Until a plucky group of 4 heroes got together to thwart your evil plans, anyway!

Nifft

2015-09-28, 03:13 PM

First: there's a 'Could' not 'Would'. That is "What I would be capable of" not "what I will do"
Second: Strictly speaking, the only reason it's not a good idea is the fact that covering the planet in eternal snow would be astonishingly bad for humanity.
Third: I, as a 20th level Wizard could survive that. Aside from self-preservation, which we all know isn't an issue there, where on earth do you get the impression I would care enough not to? Honestly, I'm not a fan of humanity, and nature is resilient enough not to give a flying intercourse.
So Fourth: yes, I could, and likely would, cover the world in eternal winter. Because.

You don't care what we're going to say.

Let the storm rage on, the cold never bothered you anyway.

legomaster00156

2015-09-28, 03:14 PM

You don't care what we're going to say.

Let the storm rage on, the cold never bothered you anyway.
Let it go. :smallannoyed:

TheifofZ

2015-09-28, 03:17 PM

You realize that even a few weeks of that would cause irreparable damage to every ecosystem in the tropical zones, right? And if done in the summer, would do the same in the temperate zones. Much longer than that would end up as a global mass extinction event, and depending on just how long, could end up on par with the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event.

It'd take at least an epic spell to repair that kind of damage, unless time travel is involved.

You know what's cool? The fact that the Cretaceous-Paleogene extinction event didn't wipe out all life.
My point on nature's resilience is proven by your existence.

Rubik

2015-09-28, 03:26 PM

You know what's cool? The fact that the Cretaceous-Paleogene extinction event didn't wipe out all life.
My point on nature's resilience is proven by your existence.But the cataclysmic environmental effects of the extinction event eventually subsided, likely within a few years, and there was still solar energy to keep the energy cycle going once it did.

Eternal winter, on the other hand, would quite probably destroy everything that isn't bacterial in nature, and that would probably be frozen solid until something thaws it out, as there's so little solar energy available due to cloud cover. The oceans would freeze, the landmasses would be covered in miles-thick sheets of solid ice, and the only things surviving on the planet would live right next to geothermal vents, but those would have no room to diversify past the bacterial stage.

So yes, life would survive...eternally restricted to geothermal bacteria. Yay.

Nibbens

2015-09-28, 03:33 PM

But the cataclysmic environmental effects of the extinction event eventually subsided, likely within a few years, and there was still solar energy to keep the energy cycle going once it did.

Eternal winter, on the other hand, would quite probably destroy everything that isn't bacterial in nature, and that would probably be frozen solid until something thaws it out, as there's so little solar energy available due to cloud cover. The oceans would freeze, the landmasses would be covered in miles-thick sheets of solid ice, and the only things surviving on the planet would live right next to geothermal vents, but those would have no room to diversify past the bacterial stage.

So yes, life would survive...eternally restricted to geothermal bacteria. Yay.

Did anyone else come here for the lols, only to come away with great BBEG plans to use in their next d&d game?

ThinkMinty

2015-09-28, 03:33 PM

Also...world domination? **** that, how about WORLD LIBERATION? All of you seem to want to get drunk on the arcane power when you could be awesome instead. That way you're remembered as the beloved Chaotic Good wizard who guided the world along to a brighter, freer future. Ya know, rather than an evil arcane overlord nobody likes.

Also, find a way to become a StP Erudite instead. But that's more of a sideline.

^ This.

I'd craft a Greater Hat of Disguise, mostly to have a cool hat with a feather. Then I could wander around doing good without necessarily having to take credit, leading people to believe that there's a bunch of different benevolent freedom-wizards running around. Couple that with some Simulacra, Clones, or other body doubles to farm out tasks so it doesn't take decades to get everything done.

My familiar would be a non-evil Succubus, because it'd be fun to have a secretary who I pay well (I'm good-aligned, after all), and if I'm having a sapient familiar, she might as well be cute, I guess?

Use that massive pile of treasure to get schools the world over gushing with funding, so that no one ever faces having their favorite extracirriculars cut, or be subjected to subpar school lunches.

I would import some Adult good-aligned Dragons who I can ply with treasure to help me out with stuff. Teach me the finer points of magic, be forces of Chaotic Goodness in the world, etc. They'd mostly be Copper and Brass dragons, who I'd offer some treasures and some office buildings or refabricated bomb shelters as lairs for them to play with. Ask them if they know any other Dragons with a like-minded temperament who would like to come 'round to this world.

Maybe get some Steel Dragons wyrmlings I can train into powerful Gishes.

On that note, I'd probably try to teach magic to some worthy young people, to spread the knowledge. It'd be an incredibly selfish move to keep it all to myself. Every powerful wizard needs apprentices.

I'd probably see if there's a way to eliminate poverty. I could probably abolish war, but I'd want to consult some ethicists first.

Oh, and bring back the dinosaurs. I wanna know what they look like, so paleontologists can stop arguing.

Rubik

2015-09-28, 03:48 PM

Nifft

2015-09-28, 03:55 PM

ThinkMinty

2015-09-28, 04:07 PM

Hey, my plan gives humanity all the stars and unlimited room for growth.

Plus, I don't really see a profit in mucking with power structures on Earth. They're doomed in the long term anyway, and messing with them in any substantive way is risking another world war and a LOT of consequent death & suffering.

I'm the one Epic Wizard, or wizard at all in this scenario. War's done because Mutually Assured Destruction is now "That one Wizard will get mad and throw dragons at us, so maybe we'll just talk it out."

Plus even if long-term doom is there, you don't want to send humanity into the stars without sorting out their issues first. United planet future is always brighter than factional planet future. The long term plan would be for space, but I'll enjoy my home planet before it gets eaten by the sun. Might look into ways to make the sun immortal so that doesn't happen, because I like our blue marble and would hate to see it go.

OH! And I'd want a kickass wizard tower. Or a bunch of them, in various major cities, so I have a townhouse. Or once in a while I'll couchsurf in the lairs of one the dragons I brought into our dimension.

Also, panglobal travel is now feasible thanks to a combination of Tongues, and Dragon bodyguards. I can go anywhere I want now, so vacations can be anywhere. I'd probably get or craft a flying carpet, even though I can teleport, because flying is more fun and if I'm not in a hurry, I'll enjoy the wind on my face, thanks.

I'd probably farm out my crafting to Simulacra, to be honest. Seems like there's more exciting things I could do with my time.

EDIT: I'd want a consortium of consultants, because I'm not omniscient and it's nice to get advice.

Rubik

2015-09-28, 04:18 PM

ThinkMinty

2015-09-28, 04:25 PM

Uniting humanity under fair and equitable rule is a good idea, especially if universal exploration is intended to become a thing, there there are definitely quite a few things that need sorted out prior to then. I have no interest whatsoever in ruling, but I do want the governing body in charge to conform at least somewhat to the ideals of what actually is fair and equitable, with no chance of future corruption, which likely means that magic will be involved. There's no other way to ensure incorruptibility, honestly. But that means I'd have to be involved one way or another.

If I must have a government, the rules would apply to everyone evenly. I'd probably have to import some LG/LN outsiders to arbitrate, so they wouldn't be biased.

Magic would be yes, though; public officials would no longer be allowed to lie.

There are also quite a few minor issues that need sorted if Teleportation Circles turn Earth into a veritable Tippyverse, such as spreading diseases into pandemics and introduction of invasive species. These are already issues, and they would be worse with instantaneous travel available, so steps would need to be taken.

Oh ****. I'd probably need to get some Clerics, wouldn't I?

Speaking of, the world needs Druids badly. I'd need to find a bunch of Neutral Good and Chaotic Neutral Druids to protect the planet from nonsense. Can't spend all day doing that myself.

Making the sun "immortal" and incapable of collapse or supernova is a great idea, though. Awaken Construct on it, followed by commands to keep doing what it's been doing (moving steadily through the cosmos via gravity, but subtly avoiding things like black holes and nebulae), followed by turning it into a repeating trap of PAO to keep it young?

This is why I'd want other wizards than just myself around. I'm much more of an idea guy than a making it work kinda guy, so I'd need people who can hammer my ideas into a functional form. Plus it'd be nice to have someone around to help me do crazy **** like making the sun immortal.

Strigon

2015-09-28, 04:28 PM

Well, I never said what I'd do with world domination; I'd sort out all of the issues in the world I could, immediately.

Also, I'd want a cool fortress. Probably something akin to a S.H.I.E.L.D. helicarrier.
Heck, if we're going there, I want a whole slew of secret bases hidden around the world. Some on the world, some underneath, some above, one at the bottom of the Mariana Trench, and one in orbit.
Heck, one on the moon, to screw with conspiracy theorists; why not?

And now that I've mentioned the Mariana Trench, I'll spend some time exploring the oceans. And the land, actually; I want to know if there's any truth at all to any cryptids out there; shouldn't take a Wizard 20 long to prove/disprove Nessie, after all.

ExLibrisMortis

2015-09-28, 04:29 PM

Making the sun "immortal" and incapable of collapse or supernova is a great idea, though. Awaken Construct on it, followed by commands to keep doing what it's been doing (moving steadily through the cosmos via gravity, but subtly avoiding things like black holes and nebulae), followed by turning it into a repeating trap of PAO to keep it young?
I think that turning the Sun into a construct (without casting awaken construct) already solves the aging issue, as constructs simply don't have age categories.

ThinkMinty

2015-09-28, 04:31 PM

Well, I never said what I'd do with world domination; I'd sort out all of the issues in the world I could, immediately.

Body doubles and the ability to disguise yourself go a long way towards fixin' stuff.

Also, I'd want a cool fortress. Probably something akin to a S.H.I.E.L.D. helicarrier.
Heck, if we're going there, I want a whole slew of secret bases hidden around the world. Some on the world, some underneath, some above, one at the bottom of the Mariana Trench, and one in orbit.
Heck, one on the moon, to screw with conspiracy theorists; why not?

I forgot...MOON BASE! I'mma get a Moon base, get some...moon dragons; it'd make a kickass moon dungeon for future adventurers, and until then...moon base!

And now that I've mentioned the Mariana Trench, I'll spend some time exploring the oceans. And the land, actually; I want to know if there's any truth at all to any cryptids out there; shouldn't take a Wizard 20 long to prove/disprove Nessie, after all.

Why not...make Nessie? You could make the various cryptids real as a Wizard 20.

Svata

2015-09-28, 04:33 PM

Every Teleportation Circle has a self-resetting trap of Remove disease installed in it, perhaps?

Rubik

2015-09-28, 04:45 PM

Curing every disease and injury on Earth isn't terribly hard. A supernatural Wish to turn an oxygen molecule into a repeating trap that does the following would do it:

1.) Cast a divination spell to find a random human.
2.) Greater Teleport to the human in step #1.
3.) Supernatural Wish to turn a nearby oxygen molecule into an activated copy of itself.
4.) Cast Regenerate on the random human.
5.) Cast Mass Heal on the random human.
6 through ???.) Cast whatever other spells you want on the random human, including stat-boosters, immunities, skill-boosters, alignment-changers (to rid the world of psychopathy, which is basically what Evil alignment is), etc.
???+1.) Repeat.
???+2.) Profit!

ThinkMinty

2015-09-28, 04:48 PM

Curing every disease and injury on Earth isn't terribly hard. A supernatural Wish for a repeating trap that does the following would do it:

1.) Cast a divination spell to find a random human.
2.) Greater Teleport to the human in step #1.
3.) Supernatural Wish to turn a nearby oxygen molecule into an activated copy of itself.
4.) Cast Regenerate on the random human.
5.) Cast Mass Heal on the random human.
6 through ???.) Cast whatever other spells you want on the random human, including stat-boosters, immunities, skill-boosters, alignment-changers (to rid the world of psychopathy, which is basically what Evil alignment is), etc.
???+1.) Repeat.

Oh, a repeating trap. For a moment, I was worried I'd have to do it myself.

Rubik

2015-09-28, 04:50 PM

Oh, a repeating trap. For a moment, I was worried I'd have to do it myself.You can easily do something similar with all sorts of spells, such as creating items that cast Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion. This would solve all sorts of problems, including starvation and homelessness.

Strigon

2015-09-28, 04:51 PM

Body doubles and the ability to disguise yourself go a long way towards fixin' stuff.

...

Why not...make Nessie? You could make the various cryptids real as a Wizard 20.

Or just find LN/LG people, give them items of +Int and +Wis, make them my judges. Periodically line them all up, do a quick alignment scan and have them tell me they have done and still plan to do all they can to uphold the law in a Zone of Truth. I might work on the wording, but that gives you a pretty good legal system right there.
And, as for a police force, that would be even easier. As would providing food for the poor, and education. Clean electricity, too.

As for making Nessie? Maybe, if I determine she doesn't exist and I get bored; personally, I think it would be much cooler if she existed already. Same with Atlantis, and any other legend I like the idea of.

http://www.digitalmediafx.com/Atlantis/Images/Atlantis06.jpg

ThinkMinty

2015-09-28, 05:12 PM

I think the Epic Wizard version of me would be called "The Dragonbringer" due to my propensity for bringing in dragons.

Or just find LN/LG people, give them items of +Int and +Wis, make them my judges. Periodically line them all up, do a quick alignment scan and have them tell me they have done and still plan to do all they can to uphold the law in a Zone of Truth. I might work on the wording, but that gives you a pretty good legal system right there.

I kinda trust the Outsider more, because I can just banish them if they're *****, and their alien nature and being born of concepts removes any temptations towards judicial bias. They won't care if someone's in a group they're in if they're equidistant from all those they would judge, and the impartiality matters a lot to someone like me who's pretty wary of authority in general.

I'm too Chaotic to make a Lawful Good system I can't override. Their authority would be very limited and would be structured in a way that rehabilitation>punishment. Fines would go towards orphanages, hospitals, and stuff like that. Being liberating and beneficent would be the whole point. Punishing people who make mistakes isn't really my speed. Things that are evil can be incarcerated, but I'm not punishing someone for jaywalking or getting high.

Or I'll get some Gold Dragons of a reasonable enough CR to back up rulings, but not to slay my Chaotic Good ass in the name of all things Lawful. So...Young Adult Gold Dragons, who get auto-retired once they hit Old.

And, as for a police force, that would be even easier.

I'd want investigators with class levels, maybe Rogues.

Patrolmen looking to make criminals out of the populace is right out, though.

As would providing food for the poor, and education. Clean electricity, too.

This I'll do. Gladly, even.

As for making Nessie? Maybe, if I determine she doesn't exist and I get bored; personally, I think it would be much cooler if she existed already. Same with Atlantis, and any other legend I like the idea of.

If I make one then find out another exists, well then that's TWO Nessies.

http://www.digitalmediafx.com/Atlantis/Images/Atlantis06.jpg

Sweeeet.

Strigon

2015-09-28, 05:45 PM

I'd want investigators with class levels, maybe Rogues.

Patrolmen looking to make criminals out of the populace is right out, though.

My opinion of a police force would likely be some sort of construct keeping vigilant watch for lawful activity, and if a crime is reported, bringing the accused to a Zone of Truth, and from there a judge. Removing the human element keeps corruption out of the equation; racism, too. Personally, I think the good cops outnumber the bad by a wide margin, but this means there will be no bad cops - and people can't complain, either.

The laws would be made universal, and the legal system completely overhauled.
My society - or at least the judicial system - would be far more Lawful than yours. Which is really just down to personal ideology.

Actually, while you're too Chaotic to make a justice system you can't override, I'm too Lawful to make a judicial system I can - or would need to - override.

Milo v3

2015-09-28, 06:01 PM

Umm... How are you guys doing teleportation circles? It's forbidden by the first rule since it requires planar travel.

Xuldarinar

2015-09-28, 06:03 PM

If I happened to be a Wizard 20, I think I would also just happen to be a karsite and the whole thing would be a moot point.

A more serious answer, I think i'd want to possess the most versatile arsenal of spells, primarily the Shadow (school name) lines, along with divination so I can stay on top of things in a practical sense..

Rubik

2015-09-28, 06:08 PM

Umm... How are you guys doing teleportation circles? It's forbidden by the first rule since it requires planar travel.I dunno about the rest of them, but I broke the epic cap and cast an epic spell to recreate the Great Wheel and allow me to leave this plane.

NeverSleeps

2015-09-28, 06:09 PM

I am a simple guy, I follow an essentially pacifist outlook as best as I can.

This would change. Those guys that mugged me a few days ago? I'd get a little petty revenge, perhaps have some Dire beasts show up in their bedrooms while they're sleeping and terrorize them into turning themselves in.

Okay, petty revenge done, it's time to address some actual problems. Sexism is irritating and unhelpful, so is racism. use my fantastic INT to create infectious Suggestion spells to treat people in general fairly. Consult a bound angel about it first.

Speaking of which, I could freely bring in actual manifestations of Good. That's probably one of the most significant powers in my arsenal. After I make absolute sure my own loved ones are highly successful, my next action is calling angels into the world and asking them if they'd like to stick around and help fix things, or what they think I need to work on. Create simulacra with the command to be Good and stay there, and make them look different. I'm L20 Wiz, no need to make them unhappy, just productive.

Mordenkainen's Mansion and Genesis make me infinitely rich forever, so that's nice. Permanency is much more important though, I could make myself immune to all diseases, immortal, able to detect anything that happens on the continent at any time. Also probably permanent Abjuration party, thought I'd research a way to make it subtle.

Find a way to make myself an indestructible infinitely stocked party space ship and probably look around for astronomers, teleporting notes or just transferring critical memories to them about whatever I see in the cosmos.

I would probably start working on a permanent technological solution to global warming, or making enough simulacra that they can do it and have them become independent scientists with permanent TG alignment that would further humanity. The overall point I guess is kick back with my lady and have armies of angels and enforced Good simulacra make sure that humanity has a chance to develop and mature, properly so I can watch it. Probably have my Lyrakien make sure I never worry about biting my lip or sores again. See into how the metaphysics of our world actually work and enjoy any spiritual enlightenment I can find along the way.

Troacctid

2015-09-28, 06:43 PM

Making large-scale societal changes seems extremely risky to attempt. Unintended consequences are hard to predict. In particular, anything involving personally taking over the world seems like a terrible idea.

And even with magic, it's not as easy as snapping your fingers and now poverty is over. There are larger social and economic forces at work. If you provide everyone with unlimited food, you've just destroyed the livelihood of farmers everywhere, and that's going to have fallout. If you use magic to create gold, the influx of supply will cause the value of gold to drop. If you oust a dictator, you throw their country into political turmoil that probably just results in a new dictatorship.

You also have to respect your own psychological and emotional limitations. It's one thing to think about how you could use magic to fix all the world's problems on a global scale, but how will you really react when presented with that kind of power and responsibility? Anything involving revealing your magic to the world at large is going to complicate your life in a lot of ways. People will want things from you. People will fear you and the changes you represent. People will want to control you, study you, assassinate you, worship you...are you prepared for all that? That's what it would mean to manipulate the world on a wide scale. Casting a spell may be easy, but dealing with the consequences isn't.

Frankly, I don't know about you, but I'd much rather be Sabrina the Teenage Witch than Dr. Manhattan.

Strigon

2015-09-28, 06:59 PM

Making large-scale societal changes seems extremely risky to attempt. Unintended consequences are hard to predict. In particular, anything involving personally taking over the world seems like a terrible idea.

And even with magic, it's not as easy as snapping your fingers and now poverty is over. There are larger social and economic forces at work. If you provide everyone with unlimited food, you've just destroyed the livelihood of farmers everywhere, and that's going to have fallout. If you use magic to create gold, the influx of supply will cause the value of gold to drop. If you oust a dictator, you throw their country into political turmoil that probably just results in a new dictatorship.

Just off the top of my head, you could offer a cheap, nutritious, but bland food to everyone. Those who can't afford food can easily live off the stuff, and anyone who can afford food will continue to buy tasty farm food; the farmers lose out on very little income - they might even gain some!
Rather than just overthrow a dictator, you put a good person in his place; that's common sense.

Those are just a few thoughts, from someone who is an idiot child compared to what I'd be as a Wizard (20+ Int and Wis).
Honestly, I'd happily devote my entire life to fixing the world, if I could do as much as a Wizard 20. Even if I start getting stressed, I'll just take a vacation for a week, once I've guaranteed nothing would go too wrong.

Ssalarn

2015-09-28, 07:31 PM

Poof, you wake up and are now a Wizard 20. However there a few minor hiccups:

1) Cannot leave this Universe through magic even for Astral/Ethereal/Shadow plane. Because of something you cannot travel outside this Universe.

2)Can use spells like Gate or Planar Binding (to call something) but spells like Plane Shift become obsolete.

3) Can use Genesis but you can only travel to your demiplane and not anywhere else outside this Universe.

4) Only item you have is spellbook with spells known. Any spell you want you have to research for it

5) you can have a familiar, your choice

So, what would you do now you're a uber wizard?

The world where I have the power of a 20th level Wizard is not one you want to live in, unless there happen to be a bunch of other 20th level Wizards who popped up around the same time and are at least as interested in curbing my power and excesses as they are in pursuing their own goals, which I assume would be just as megalomaniacal as my own, whatever they might say about curing hunger or bringing about world peace now, when they don't actually have that power at their fingertips.

I would carve a massive castle with extradimensional rooms out of a mountain in my home state of Alaska, and add a few portals to some of my favorite locations protected by special keys, passwords, and deadly golems. It is very possible that I would occasionally disintegrate people just because they said something I found to be sufficiently stupid to warrant destruction. I would fabricate money or goods to easily obtain anything my magic could not readily provide me with. If I happened to be playing a video game online and my fun was ruined when one of my friends was hounded by some spawn-camping, kill-stealing, foul-mouthed little twelve-year-old with a superiority complex, I wouldn't just hunt him through the various maps of the game, grinding his avatar into so much paste, I would use my divinations to find him, teleport to his house, turn him into a pig, and then use enchantment spells to ensnare his parents' minds and feed him to them, ensuring that they remember the incident and raise better children in the future (presuming their minds are still intact enough that they recover and are able to re-enter the gene pool). When some third world dictator decides to threaten war because a couple of idiots make a painfully accurate and not-particularly-funny movie about him, I would eradicate him and everything within a 20 mile radius with swarms of destructive meteors, not because I believe it's best for the world, but because the idea of such a spoiled and petulant child being given any degree of political power by grown men who should know better irks me. Given some time, it's entirely possible that I would grow bored enough of the practical applications of my new-found power to begin using it for more complex social experiments, perhaps attempting to eradicate racism by temporarily changing everyone so they all have sapphire colored skin and neon hair colors. If the world attempted to rise up against me, I would systematically find and annihilate their leaders, until they either give up their delusions of overthrowing me or are left so chaotic and directionless that it will be generations before they're even organized enough again to remember that I exist. Eventually, I will be like the sun to them, terrible in my strength and unstoppable in my purpose.

Oh, and since I wouldn't be worrying about bills anymore, I'd probably get my books written and published much faster and have more time to explore different ideas and mechanics.

NeverSleeps

2015-09-28, 07:41 PM

I would systematically find and annihilate their leaders, until they either give up their delusions of overthrowing me or are left so chaotic and directionless that it will be generations before they're even organized enough again to remember that I exist. Eventually, I will be like the sun to them, terrible in my strength and unstoppable in my purpose.

Remember the fact that we have some powerful weapons in this world. Nukes and such are a thing, and unless you're 100% of the time spending every moment Professor X-ing the world, you're gonna have some problems with people following you around waiting for that one moment you slip up.

Not to mention, wouldn't you want to find out what gave you this power? What if it can do it again, but even better if you bungle it too bad? You'd need so much more information.

Ssalarn

2015-09-28, 07:49 PM

Remember the fact that we have some powerful weapons in this world. Nukes and such are a thing, and unless you're 100% of the time spending every moment Professor X-ing the world, you're gonna have some problems with people following you around waiting for that one moment you slip up.

Not to mention, wouldn't you want to find out what gave you this power? What if it can do it again, but even better if you bungle it too bad? You'd need so much more information.

Nukes aren't a big problem when I can easily find where they're located and either drop the whole location into a fault line, send them to the moon, or just mentally control the technicians into sabotaging or disarming them. I suspect many of the world's nations would actually respect me and leave me alone rather than risk the ramifications of attempting to nuke me on American soil, so I've just got to deal with local politics.

I have to assume that if whatever gave me the power disapproves of my actions, it's either going to revoke it or appear to me directly for a chat about my choices, at which point we can discuss a go-forward strategy.

Also, it occurs to me that I'd probably adopt too many adorable kittens, and my awesome extra-dimensional fortress would quickly become overrun if I didn't install lots of wall fixtures and nooks that took good advantage of vertical space.

Strigon

2015-09-28, 07:58 PM

Ssalarn

2015-09-28, 08:05 PM

This is exactly why Wizards use Contingency.
Time Stop/Teleport/Whatever else lets you survive, contingent upon:
Nuclear Blasts
Drone Strikes
Taking more than 30 HP damage
Dropping below 50 HP
Whatever else my paranoid self happens to think of.

For reals, yo.

DMVerdandi

2015-09-28, 08:07 PM

:smallamused:

1. Cast wish.
2. Write out contract explaining that I want the contract to be fulfilled which states that I will become a Dragon Magazine STP Erudite 20, with all arcane spells learned and powers learned. (As if I took enough time lowering my XP to gain said spells.)

Alright, so the next stage.

A.
Spend a couple of months using divination and clairsentience powers to really learn everything I need to know about the world that I didn't know. Also Buffing my stats as necessary, and using permanency to get as many permanent buffs as possible.
And researching divine spells that I can't get,but want and turning them into psionic powers (PSIONICMonstrous thrall)

B.
Start brainwashing every world leader, making them into my thralls.
-Scry their location
-Cast stealthy power
-Get close enough and cast mind controlling power.

C. Gain internship close to said individual, and have them give me a special position where I directly understudy them. Have them reveal all secrets to me, then endorse me in running for elected seats.
Whenever I don't know an answer for certain questions, just use a power like hyper cognition.

D.
Always keep a couple of slots for random shenanigans, but most powers used would be divination/clairsentience and Illusion/Enchantment/Telepathy.

E.
Gain hella political contacts, work at a think-tank, while dominating the world leaders so they govern for me.

F.
Now that the world is getting better, take a year off, enjoy life, Build a high-rise as my atelier , bang succubi, enjoy being rich, travel the world Via greater teleport. Use tongues to spit game, and live like a king.

G.
Much more power research.
There are so many powers that COULD have been, but aren't.
Greater versions of really useful low level spells for example.

H.
Eventually take over the world, using my powers to best ascertain exactly how.

Milo v3

2015-09-28, 08:14 PM

Create a small number of unlimited use magic items for my convince, and another small number of unlimited use magic items for a business so I can have decent income without any real work. Then only use my spells for party tricks and mere utility.

Rubik

2015-09-28, 08:49 PM

1. Cast wish.
2. Write out contract explaining that I want the contract to be fulfilled which states that I will become a Dragon Magazine STP Erudite 20, with all arcane spells learned and powers learned. (As if I took enough time lowering my XP to gain said spells.)A fairly easy way to do this is to use an efreeti ice assassin's supernatural Three Wishes to nab yourself three thought bottles.

Attune the bottles to yourself, store your XP total and prepared spells in two of them. Then choose a different spell load-out the next day and store them all in the third bottle. Then on the third day, hit yourself with enough negative levels to take you down to level 1. (But buff yourself all to hell beforehand so you're not in any danger while you're low level, including several Contingent rezzes.) Retrain that level or keep it if you want to retain your level of wizard (which, honestly, is a good idea for all the reasons why having a level in wizard is a good idea, especially if you're an abrupt jaunt conjuror).

Use the one thought bottle to restore your XP total, this time leveling up as you desire. (I'd suggest becoming a psion or ardent with with the Magic Mantle and knowledge of 9th level powers and finding a way to gain the dweomerkeeper's Supernatural Spell ability.) Use the second and third thought bottles to reabsorb all the knowledge of the spells you had stuck in your brain as a wizard. Manifest a Supernatural Spell'd Soul Crystal with Psychic Chirurgery as its affected power, followed by Fission. Psychic Reformation your clone to have all the powers you want, and use the Soul Crystal of Psychic Chirurgery to implant all those powers in your real self's head. Or you could use nested thought bottles (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?217819-Nesting-Thought-Bottles-millions-of-wishes) to do the same, though I think that would take longer.

And you can always use the thought bottle shuffle up above on your Fission'd clone, retrain it as a StP erudite or wizard/wyrm wizard, and have it shove all of its spells (arcane and divine-turned-arcane) into your head via Psychic Chirurgery. Then start collecting spells from dragons with the Child of Eberron archetype, as well as a fissioned clone rebuilt with prestige paladin, prestige ranger, and Southern Magician.

In the end, you'll have all wu jen spells, all wizard/sorcerer spells, all bardic spells, all cleric-as-arcane spells, all druid-as-arcane spells, all paladin-as-arcane spells, and all ranger-as-arcane spells. And possibly more, if you can find them.

Oh, and do the same with psywarrior powers, too. Can't forget those.

Enjoy.

legomaster00156

2015-09-28, 08:58 PM

I love how the moment that you learn that you have basically unlimited power, you all decide to go ahead and become even more ridiculously optimized.

Strigon

2015-09-28, 09:00 PM

I love how the moment that you learn that you have basically unlimited power, you all decide to go ahead and become even more ridiculously optimized.

These are the people who spend hours of free time theoretically optimizing characters in an RPG online.
What on earth did you think would happen if that RPG were brought to life?

Rubik

2015-09-28, 09:01 PM

I love how the moment that you learn that you have basically unlimited power, you all decide to go ahead and become even more ridiculously optimized.It's not like I would have a party I'd have to deal with and pretend are actually contributing.

ThinkMinty

2015-09-28, 10:07 PM

The laws would be made universal, and the legal system completely overhauled.
My society - or at least the judicial system - would be far more Lawful than yours. Which is really just down to personal ideology.

Mine would be Good, first n' foremost. Lawful Good guys are going to handle the minutia better than my Chaotic Good self, but the rules are...if it isn't punishing evil or helping people, it's arbitrary. It's not that there wouldn't be any rules, it's that you'd get in more trouble for loan sharking than for graffiti.

My opinion of a police force would likely be some sort of construct keeping vigilant watch for lawful activity, and if a crime is reported, bringing the accused to a Zone of Truth, and from there a judge. Removing the human element keeps corruption out of the equation; racism, too. Personally, I think the good cops outnumber the bad by a wide margin, but this means there will be no bad cops - and people can't complain, either.

I wouldn't trust it, and non-investigative anti-evil forces should be more like a firefighter than a police force.

Removal of the human element is fine, but people don't need to be ruled over and constantly watched to be good. They're good by default, showing the world how to be better rather than stifling choice to make it a version of better is more my speed. Less risk of turning into an arcane tyrant.

Actually, while you're too Chaotic to make a justice system you can't override, I'm too Lawful to make a judicial system I can - or would need to - override.

Anyone can be wrong sometimes, even me, so constraints are a part of any system of power I'd come up with. That, and I'm too Chaotic to throw a guy in jail without a Good reason. I want my prison population low and at least sometimes a redemptive tool rather than...whatever makes Lawful people like enforcing rules for their own sake.

:smallamused:

1. Cast wish.
2. Write out contract explaining that I want the contract to be fulfilled which states that I will become a Dragon Magazine STP Erudite 20, with all arcane spells learned and powers learned. (As if I took enough time lowering my XP to gain said spells.)

Thanks for that. Wish without a DM means I can rewrite my build.

I love how the moment that you learn that you have basically unlimited power, you all decide to go ahead and become even more ridiculously optimized.

You misunderstand. I just want to sleep in in the morning, which being a Wizard 20 doesn't let me do. The higher power isn't particularly my interest (although having enough power to keep my sudden power is a valid concern), it's the time saved by the reduction in book-keeping. If I can wake up ready to Disintegrate a dictator before I go out and get waffles at a diner for breakfast, I get at least an extra hour in my day for goofing off, research, or time to spend with a girlfriend.

Plus then my magic school can train arcanist and psionics. Clerical magic is unnecessary to import due to a combination of personal atheism and the fact that I can teach those spells as arcane now due to StP.

EDIT: I can leave the universe once I'm an Erudite, as my magic is now PSIONICS. Mwa ha ha!

It's not like I would have a party I'd have to deal with and pretend are actually contributing.

Haaaah, this.

Well, now I'm getting some trusted friends some high class levels, because I want peers who aren't Dragons. Gets lonely at the top. I want a party. Maybe a Sublime Chord, and some kind of Gish?

Rubik

2015-09-28, 10:19 PM

Mine would be Good, first n' foremost. Lawful Good guys are going to handle the minutia better than my Chaotic Good self, but the rules are...if it isn't punishing evil or helping people, it's arbitrary.I think you mean "discouraging" Evil.

Haaaah, this.

Well, now I'm getting some trusted friends some high class levels, because I want peers who aren't Dragons. Gets lonely at the top. I want a party. Maybe a Sublime Chord, and some kind of Gish?Gate in Pinkie Pie.

ThinkMinty

2015-09-28, 10:33 PM

I think you mean "discouraging" Evil.

I'm not going to be euphemistic about it. I want transparency, so there's no reason to play spin doctor.

Gate in Pinkie Pie.

Part of me wants to see what would happen, part of me wants to know why you suggested it, and part of me knows my sister would be mad at me for not Gating in Fluttershy first.

Rubik

2015-09-28, 10:46 PM

I'm not going to be euphemistic about it. I want transparency, so there's no reason to play spin doctor.No, there's a huge difference between discouragement and punishment. Discouragement involves prevention, whereas punishment only occurs after the fact. Properly doing the former means you won't have to do the latter. Carrot and the threat of stick, as well as giving assistance when necessary to prevent problems (such as giving help before stealing to pay the bills and feed yourself becomes necessary because you can't otherwise acquire resources).

Part of me wants to see what would happen, part of me wants to know why you suggested it, and part of me knows my sister would be mad at me for not Gating in Fluttershy first.Because Pinkie is EVERYONE'S friend.

And Fluttershy, as sweet as she is, is boring and frustrating. Always the same problems, and we have to deal with the occasional Dragonshy Fluttershy.

ThinkMinty

2015-09-28, 11:59 PM

No, there's a huge difference between discouragement and punishment. Discouragement involves prevention, whereas punishment only occurs after the fact. Properly doing the former means you won't have to do the latter. Carrot and the threat of stick, as well as giving assistance when necessary to prevent problems (such as giving help before stealing to pay the bills and feed yourself becomes necessary because you can't otherwise acquire resources).

Discouragement and "discouragement" are two wildly different things. Discouragement is me making it easier to be a good person, "discouragement" means I'm torturing dissidents in a dark room because no one can stop me and a cadre of talking heads are saying it's okay.

Evil-prevention by means of making it not suck to be poor already on the table, and a goal, with me. I'm not going to go all "Tough on Crime", because **** that. However, when along comes a spree killer or a serial rapist or a white-collar criminal, they get a dispassionate visit from the incarceration fairy...after a fair trial, of course.

Despots, warlords, and censors get nothing less than a personally delivered Disintegrate to the chops until they're reduced a problem I can sweep up with a broom. Tyrants deserve nothing less than that.

Because Pinkie is EVERYONE'S friend.

True.

And Fluttershy, as sweet as she is, is boring and frustrating. Always the same problems, and we have to deal with the occasional Dragonshy Fluttershy.

What, am I not allowed to do anything nice for my sister now? Wizardry is no excuse for being a bad brother.

Rubik

2015-09-29, 12:07 AM

Discouragement and "discouragement" are two wildly different things. Discouragement is me making it easier to be a good person, "discouragement" means I'm torturing dissidents in a dark room because no one can stop me and a cadre of talking heads are saying it's okay.Sorry. I meant the former.

What, am I not allowed to do anything nice for my sister now? Wizardry is no excuse for being a bad brother.Give her a real life Pokemon, like a Chiaotzu. Or if you're worried about her safety, get her a harmless one, like a Yamcha or a Radditz. She'll love it.

Xar Zarath

2015-09-29, 02:46 AM

Umm... How are you guys doing teleportation circles? It's forbidden by the first rule since it requires planar travel.

Teleporting to a fixed point in the Universe is possible, however travels to other universes are impossible through magical means. Its like being able to Greater Teleport to the edge of the Universe but being unable to teleport outside of it

Xar Zarath

2015-09-29, 02:50 AM

I love how the moment that you learn that you have basically unlimited power, you all decide to go ahead and become even more ridiculously optimized.

I feel like I should have been more strict with my OP with regards to the only class you can get is Wizard but since you do have that much power, everything tends to blur together. Moreover, it would take gold and xp but you can develop any spell that does what any psionic power or divine spell can do so eh...

Xar Zarath

2015-09-29, 02:55 AM

Seharvepernfan

2015-09-29, 04:55 AM

So they magically know who I am, but that's pointless, because I can change shape or disguise myself with illusions at any time, and can be anywhere in the world at any given moment.

Would I want to? Yes and no. Yes, I'd love for everybody to be free from life's bull**** like me, but then again, most people couldn't be trusted with it (I shouldn't have been trusted with it, but at least I'm anti-evil). I don't think I would, because you never know who is bad or foolish, and even the wisest saint can screw up somewhere down the road. I do think it's wrong to hoard technology, but magic isn't technology (unless it's sufficiently advanced, but I have no way to tell), and mankind has not earned magic like it has earned tech. Man needs to continue it's advancement of tech, and it won't if I let magic out of the box. With tech, man will eventually become much stronger than it ever would with magic (or so it seems). While yes, I did give mankind a boost via magic over a hurdle it should have overcome on it's own, I can't really say I care. I got magic, the world got a boost.

No, I would keep my powers to myself, and yes, I know it seems hypocritical and selfish. I mostly don't care.

ThinkMinty

2015-09-29, 05:20 AM

Actually there is another scenario: Now the whole world knows who you are and *estimates* (really roughly) what you can do people want to become your apprentice. Some are the 1% or children of the 1% while others are middle class workers as well as some poor children but are smart. Basically people all across the spectrum, those who hate/love/idolise/worship/despise you and they want to learn your magic. And you can teach them! (if you want to)

My questions:

Would you want to and why?

What could they offer you for the study of magic?

What is the backlash to teaching magic to whoever you want/the masses?

I personally refuse any and all apprentices who are not within one step of my alignment, Chaotic Good. 1%ers are refused entry, although their children are not. Priority spots go to Chaotic Good kids. I don't want to waste my time teaching a kid who's going to argue with me about my general worldview when I'm trying to teach them how to unlock the mysteries of grand arcana, nor have a personal hand in empowering something I find harmful.

A magic school can be...whatever as long as it's a secular one (as due to the StP Erudite conversion mentioned earlier, I was able to make all divine spells arcane, so Clerics are now redundant enough to keep my planet merrily god-free), I'll just smack evil mages around if their name makes it to my ear, because they'll have done something worth smacking them up and down the street over if I've heard of them.

Strigon

2015-09-29, 07:49 AM

Mine would be Good, first n' foremost. Lawful Good guys are going to handle the minutia better than my Chaotic Good self, but the rules are...if it isn't punishing evil or helping people, it's arbitrary. It's not that there wouldn't be any rules, it's that you'd get in more trouble for loan sharking than for graffiti.

I wouldn't trust it, and non-investigative anti-evil forces should be more like a firefighter than a police force.

Removal of the human element is fine, but people don't need to be ruled over and constantly watched to be good. They're good by default, showing the world how to be better rather than stifling choice to make it a version of better is more my speed. Less risk of turning into an arcane tyrant.

Anyone can be wrong sometimes, even me, so constraints are a part of any system of power I'd come up with. That, and I'm too Chaotic to throw a guy in jail without a Good reason. I want my prison population low and at least sometimes a redemptive tool rather than...whatever makes Lawful people like enforcing rules for their own sake.

First up, I'm having trouble figuring out what you would trust, if not artificial constructs specifically told "Keep people from breaking the law; if someone tells you about a person breaking the law, bring them to a Zone of Truth, and then a trial by a superhumanly wise, intelligent, and benevolent judge".

And, while you might think people don't need to be watched over, I personally disagree - my experience is the exact opposite. That's not to say that everyone turns into a backstabbing murderer in private, but everyone does have vices, which can and will affect others if not prevented from doing so.

Certainly anyone can be wrong, myself included. That's why I'm making my legal system require practically 0 maintenance; so if and when I stop being Good, I'm intelligent enough to know that I don't need the humans - I'll presumably leave to be on my own without people bothering me, and my legal system marches on uninhibited.

And, as for enforcing rules for their own sake, it's (personally) a combination of a different morality system, leading to the current laws seeming inadequate, and an observation that people without those laws quickly become amoral - again, not murderers, but lots of little things that simply aren't good, and aren't healthy.

My main problem with the little things is that they corrupt others much more easily than big acts (like murder), and they tend to either affect everyone else a little bit, or the person doing it a lot.
The way I see it, when someone does something that's self-destructive, it's not just a case of live and let live, because them doing that act tells other people - in their own small way - that it's okay to do that, and so it proliferates. And so in doing that, you aren't just hurting yourself, or causing a nuisance to anyone around to see it, you're also harming other impressionable people, like children - which is something I would not allow.

And Fluttershy, as sweet as she is, is boring and frustrating. Always the same problems, and we have to deal with the occasional Dragonshy Fluttershy.

http://iambrony.steeph.tp-radio.de/mlp/gif/130188986464.gif

Fluttershy is best pony, and there is nothing you can do about it, my friend.

Anyway, would I take apprentices? Probably not. Maybe, if I find that for some reason I can't keep up with my world-ruling duties and think another helping hand would be nice, but I'm inherently distrustful, and a little bit paranoid. I'd only do it if I were sure they wouldn't try changing laws they didn't like, or adding new ones as they see fit, and I was sure they wouldn't go dark side. Because the last thing this world needs is an evil Wizard ruling it.

Segev

2015-09-29, 08:19 AM

You know, this thread makes me wonder what people would do if they woke up tomorrow as something far less optimal, but still beyond the power level of any individual human in the real world. For instance:

What if you woke up tomorrow as a 20th level Fighter (all levels are Fighter)?

Xar Zarath

2015-09-29, 08:35 AM

...No, I would keep my powers to myself, and yes, I know it seems hypocritical and selfish. I mostly don't care.

I can see the point in this. I would love being a Wizard but as far as others are concerned, meh up to them how they live their life, I'll just keep to my own devices...

Wonder what would happen if they "insisted" on you teaching them magic, though?

Nifft

2015-09-29, 08:52 AM

What if you woke up tomorrow as a 20th level Fighter (all levels are Fighter)? Hit snooze.

Wonder what would happen if they "insisted" on you teaching them magic, though? Mindrape fixes all mental conditions including curiosity.

Milo the Gnome

2015-09-29, 09:05 AM

Rubik

2015-09-29, 09:37 AM

1.) Identify any possible other suddenly magical folks.
1b.) Make peaceful contact and devise strategy that meets mutual benefit.
2.) Make myself ridiculously wealthy. (Can Genesis be used to create a demi-plane with near unlimited precious stones and materials? Is that a DM call?) Use wealth to assist accomplishing things with subtly.
3.) Use magic to fix planet. Armies all over the world realize they lost their bullets, all of them. Dominate bad rulers into revealing their secrets publicly and stepping down. Suggest and Dominate genuinely good people in their place ("Nobody remembers voting for Sam the physically repulsive genius, but he's doing a great job!") Clean pollution so soil is workable and clean water readily available everywhere. Wealthy schmucks w/ unfair influence on political process or reality shows about what awful people they are wake up to discover they posted their darkest secrets online (with video proof) and gave 90% of their wealth to various charities or trusts that fund education for everyone.+1, basically.

And yes, Genesis demiplanes can be made from valuable materials, though Psionic Genesis demiplanes cannot.

4.) Party AS an immortal sex god. Because after that I've earned it.Fixed that for you.

As far as apprentices, I know a few people I would trust with it, but I wouldn't teach anyone I didn't trust. And "teaching" is kind of the wrong term. With the right powers and spells, it's not terribly hard to instantaneously give someone class levels.

But I certainly wouldn't want the world at large to know who I am and what I can do. I'd have to find a way to make the world see what I'm doing as some sort of tech advancement. I'd solve a lot of problems for the world, but I'd start knocking out the stops that we've placed on advancing further, and encourage people to go farther -- in an ethical manner, of course.

What "stops," you ask? There are companies and lobbyists actively preventing research into certain fields for their own selfish benefit. Why would pharmaceutical companies want to cure cancer or HIV when they can make tons of money treating them? Prolong the suffering and you prolong your profits, and make sure as many people are getting sick as you can because you're not curing anyone. Why would oil companies want clean energy when they're making billions and trillions each year on gas-hogging humvees? Why would war profiteers want to stop warfare when they make a mint off of weaponry designed to kill huge numbers of people?

Figure out where the problems are, kick them in the teeth, and get on with making humanity better.

Xar Zarath

2015-09-29, 09:48 AM

...Mindrape fixes all mental conditions including curiosity...snips other posts...

Hmm, I do wonder though...people in power on Earth tend to be on the spectrum of megalomaniacal power-drunks or highbrow pandering intellectuals. Considering the amount of power and the versatility of it...if they find out you're not willing to "play ball" with them, wont they try to kill/control/use you? Come to think of it, for those with families, significant others, people you care about...wouldn't they come after them to "convince" you to "work" with them??

AvatarVecna

2015-09-29, 09:50 AM

Milo the Gnome

2015-09-29, 10:06 AM

Use time dilation effects, divination, and skill boosting spells to speed research into Oncology, Auto-Immune disorders, and neuro-degenerative diseases.

Once at least 3 major conditions are cured, create a custom magic item to become this guy (http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTIyNjU5ODc3M15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMDM4NzcyMQ@@._ V1_SX640_SY720_.jpg).

Nifft

2015-09-29, 10:14 AM

Strigon

2015-09-29, 10:15 AM

Milo the Gnome

2015-09-29, 11:50 AM

Rubik

2015-09-29, 11:59 AM

Wish, Teleport, Time Stop... all of these make hostage rescue laughably easy.Don't forget Locate Person.

Strigon

2015-09-29, 01:38 PM

Don't forget Locate Person.

That's a good point; I almost forgot that I had to actually know where they are to rescue them :smalltongue:

Honest Tiefling

2015-09-29, 01:47 PM

Not going to lie, I'd probably do super petty things like scour my kitchen and bathroom free of bugs/mold and then make it rain cupcakes and then domesticate a wolf to make it my bestest friend ever. And then probably conquer parts of the world for tea and kidnap George Takei and Betty White and force them to make more funny posts.

ThinkMinty

2015-09-29, 03:11 PM

tadkins

2015-09-29, 03:36 PM

My spells would be focused on survival and exploration.

Lot of places I would just love to go check out. I'd probably spend the first few days just flying everywhere. Throw up a few abjurations to ward off things that might want to kill me (particularly when I fly over Afghanistan and North Korea) and just go see the world.

MorgromTheOrc

2015-09-29, 03:57 PM

If I'm the only wizard, then I'll probably be a doctor who style character, or even better, Rick from Rick and Morty. I already know the perfect Morty and fluffing everything as fantastic science, or even better using it to actually do fantastic science, is likely the best goal and wouldn't take me too far off my current path.

If I'm not the only wizard... Well I would try get us to get together somehow, hoping we would all be playgrounders(is that the right word?) and set up a system where the first thing we do is for all of us to wish that each of(1 wish from everyone for each person) us cannot make wishes that directly alter another wizard, directly change another wizard's way of life(you can make all tv's potatoes but you can't make their specific tv a potato), or make any wish to revoke, or abuse the wording of, a previous wish they made. Hopefully the collective wishes will outweigh anyone's individual wish, then everyone will be allowed to alter their build once within perceivable powers of a wish, and after that everyone will(on themselves) be required to make a wish that prevents them from making any future wishes that directly alter themselves(the first wish about not revoking wishes should secure this) then the forum would become the universe's new(and only real) government, we would pursue our collective goals after that, or allow members to go on their own(as I would do). Anyone who refuses at any point will suffer the collective might of the others and we could argue wording to avoid loopholes first.

If I'm not alone and this deal could not be made... well I'd rather wish myself into epics(and the ability to gain more levels) and get at least wizard 30, then every other relevant TO build, including getting seemingly infinite stats, and gaining all immunities(including undead/construct) along with a form of regeneration to effectively be immune to death(seemingly infinite contingent spells to avoid any remaining methods of death) and of course fully optimized leadership to get an STP cohort of close to mine epic levels and using my almost infinite(often mindraped to ensure their continued loyalty) followers who I would optimize the best I can and use to gain deity status of at least greater.

No matter how it goes, as far as apprentices go I'm getting leadership and my Morty-like friend will be my cohort.

Strigon

2015-09-29, 04:18 PM

...Throw up a few abjurations to ward off things that might want to kill me (particularly when I fly over Afghanistan and North Korea)...

Just how low are you planning on flying?

ThinkMinty

2015-09-29, 04:54 PM

Just how low are you planning on flying?

Low enough to flyby kick a few jerks in the face?

Elkad

2015-09-29, 06:12 PM

Go on a quest to eliminate inflation of New York real estate (https://femmolitical.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/too-damn-high-meme-generator-the-rent-is-too-damn-high-52014a-434x317.jpg?w=434). Receive another 2 levels in the process.

Because nothing short of epic level magic could make Manhattan affordable.

Bah. If you can get around the XP requirements for Genesis, it's easy. Private demi-planes for sale! 24 million cubic feet accessed from a door on a blank wall. That's 2/3rds the Empire State Building on the first casting. Second casting bumps it to 200 million cubic feet, nearly 3x the Pentagon. You'll lose some useful space to curved edges, but the bigger you make it, the less they matter.

Other methods could be done as well. Research a permanent or years-per-CL Mordenkainen's Mansion. I'd allow years-per-CL as a 9th level spell without an XP cost. It's a mere 6,000 square feet (assuming 10' ceilings), but you can bang out 4 or more a day, it's furnished to the customer's desire, and comes with unseen servants and such.

Rubik

2015-09-29, 06:31 PM

Bah. If you can get around the XP requirements for Genesis, it's easy. Private demi-planes for sale! 24 million cubic feet accessed from a door on a blank wall. That's 2/3rds the Empire State Building on the first casting. Second casting bumps it to 200 million cubic feet, nearly 3x the Pentagon. You'll lose some useful space to curved edges, but the bigger you make it, the less they matter.There are three easy ways to do this sans XP. The first is, of course, the thought bottle. The second is the dweomerkeeper's Supernatural Spell ability. The third is a Sanctum Spell'd Shades to emulate a Sanctum Spell'd Genesis.

Elkad

2015-09-29, 06:46 PM

There are three easy ways to do this sans XP. The first is, of course, the thought bottle. The second is the dweomerkeeper's Supernatural Spell ability. The third is a Sanctum Spell'd Shades to emulate a Sanctum Spell'd Genesis.

Yup. I was assuming it had been adequately discussed upthread, and therefore was a triviality.

druid91

2015-09-29, 07:15 PM

Hmm, I do wonder though...people in power on Earth tend to be on the spectrum of megalomaniacal power-drunks or highbrow pandering intellectuals. Considering the amount of power and the versatility of it...if they find out you're not willing to "play ball" with them, wont they try to kill/control/use you? Come to think of it, for those with families, significant others, people you care about...wouldn't they come after them to "convince" you to "work" with them??

Find someplace with a population that's holding a grudge. Offer them the power to fulfill that grudge, but the price will be their servitude until you see fit to release them. Preferably someplace superstitious so they take you seriously.

Those that accept. Gather together. Get them a nice uniform. Then cast Shapechange and shift into a spectre, turn the lot of them. You now have an army of ghosts that the modern world has literally nothing but daytime to counter, where everyone who falls just ADDS to your army as it spreads like an undead plague.

Conquer someplace big. Don't try to take political control, just topple whoever IS there and make it obvious and flashy. Ghosts flowing like a river of undeath through the streets. Fortifications and Skyscrapers destroyed with boosted Evocations. Build the stereotypical land of the dead.

Then send a message to them. "Come, test your mettle. Slay me and become a hero, or fall and join the ranks."

Use the XP gained thereby to boost yourself into epic levels, grab the life seed of epic spellcasting and raise the dead and fix everything you destroyed, compensating those killed for their experiences. Teleport into your 'enemies' command center warded to the teeth, pat everyone on the shoulder tell them "Good Game. I put everything back the way I found it." Then teleport out. Leaving the world very confused... Go home and read the news.

Establish very firmly that you are both too insane, and too powerful to mess with. Even if you are in fact, perfectly sane and willing to help.

Seharvepernfan

2015-09-29, 07:18 PM

Yeah, psychos could gain leverage over me by doing stuff to people I like, but it begs the question of how they know who I am in the first place. IF they did, though, there are plenty of ways to save those folks, but then the bad guys could keep upping the stakes, I suppose. I would never share my magic with them no matter what, even if they did terrible things to people, because it would pale in comparison to what would happen if the kidnappers had magic themselves. Anyway, I would think that I'd be smart enough (19+) to know to evacuate anybody I cared about to a safe place once I knew my identity was known. If not, well, there's an angry 20th level wizard on the planet.

tadkins

2015-09-29, 07:23 PM

Just how low are you planning on flying?

Low enough to take in the sights. Might ascend occasionally to take in a more breathtaking view, depending on the place. I will probably cover the whole spectrum of altitudes.

Strigon

2015-09-29, 08:54 PM

Find someplace with a population that's holding a grudge. Offer them the power to fulfill that grudge, but the price will be their servitude until you see fit to release them. Preferably someplace superstitious so they take you seriously.

Those that accept. Gather together. Get them a nice uniform. Then cast Shapechange and shift into a spectre, turn the lot of them. You now have an army of ghosts that the modern world has literally nothing but daytime to counter, where everyone who falls just ADDS to your army as it spreads like an undead plague.

Conquer someplace big. Don't try to take political control, just topple whoever IS there and make it obvious and flashy. Ghosts flowing like a river of undeath through the streets. Fortifications and Skyscrapers destroyed with boosted Evocations. Build the stereotypical land of the dead.

Then send a message to them. "Come, test your mettle. Slay me and become a hero, or fall and join the ranks."

Use the XP gained thereby to boost yourself into epic levels, grab the life seed of epic spellcasting and raise the dead and fix everything you destroyed, compensating those killed for their experiences. Teleport into your 'enemies' command center warded to the teeth, pat everyone on the shoulder tell them "Good Game. I put everything back the way I found it." Then teleport out. Leaving the world very confused... Go home and read the news.

Establish very firmly that you are both too insane, and too powerful to mess with. Even if you are in fact, perfectly sane and willing to help.

1) If you were sane and willing to help, you wouldn't put millions through the psychological torture that comes with being turned into a Spectre and then back undoubtedly causes.
2) Not to nitpick, but we have Holy Water, which could hurt your Spectres. In fact, once they figured out what could stop them, the stuff is quite easy to mass-produce, and suddenly you have fire trucks spewing it at your armies by the gallon.
3) What on Earth could give you exp at level 20? Maybe huge warships, like battleships and supercarriers, but even tanks, helicopters and bombers probably would only be about CR 10.

Rubik

2015-09-29, 09:07 PM

2) Not to nitpick, but we have Holy Water, which could hurt your Spectres. In fact, once they figured out what could stop them, the stuff is quite easy to mass-produce, and suddenly you have fire trucks spewing it at your armies by the gallon.No. (Un)Holy water is produced by a spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blessWater.htm). We don't have those. The bunk they try to pass off as "holy water" is just tap water someone babbled over.

Xar Zarath

2015-09-30, 12:25 AM

No. (Un)Holy water is produced by a spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blessWater.htm). We don't have those. The bunk they try to pass of as "holy water" is just tap water someone babbled over.

Have to second this at least as far as this thread goes...no offense to those who believe in holy water here on Earth but without magic (arcane or divine) incorporeal undead can have a field day.

Xar Zarath

2015-09-30, 12:27 AM

1) If you were sane and willing to help, you wouldn't put millions through the psychological torture that comes with being turned into a Spectre and then back undoubtedly causes...

Have to second this as well...putting an entire country through that would be almost the equivalent off letting off a nuke and then fixing it all back though...

What I do know is that once you unleash that level of power, people in governments and world leaders will flip their proverbial and possibly literal dung...heck half the organisations that run the world would be looking at you so closely, wouldn't it defeat the purpose of the undeadmageddon showdown??

Rubik

2015-09-30, 12:38 AM

undeadmageddonOne good thing about my self-spawning, repeating healing traps is that the constant Mass Heals around every existing human that would be happening within a couple of days is that there's no chance whatsoever of any undead incursion that isn't 100% immune to positive energy damage.

hifidelity2

2015-09-30, 07:07 AM

Strigon

2015-09-30, 07:28 AM

Have to second this at least as far as this thread goes...no offense to those who believe in holy water here on Earth but without magic (arcane or divine) incorporeal undead can have a field day.

The issue is, we have no way of knowing if it actually works here on Earth without having anything to test it on. Once you let a Wizard in, though, you're admitting that there is actually some magic in this world, so I don't (personally) see how you can write off Holy Water.

ryu

2015-09-30, 07:58 AM

Milo the Gnome

2015-09-30, 09:18 AM

Create Permanent Gates - Some in Manhattan with the other ends wherever you want - anywhere in the world - You then have a (free) instantaneous mass transit system. People can live in the Bahamas (or wherever you put a Gate) and work in Manhattan

Love this idea.
And the Demi-plane on the side of a brick wall.

Making Manhattan generally affordable for the middle class, that would be an epic quest.

ExLibrisMortis

2015-09-30, 09:32 AM

Manhattan is probably one of the easier places to employ loads of Mordenkainen's Mansions, since it already has good infrastructure (tons of elevators and corridors, food import and so on).

Yes, with magic you can make any place easy to live in, but Manhattan requires less work.

Rubik

2015-09-30, 09:41 AM

The issue is, we have no way of knowing if it actually works here on Earth without having anything to test it on. Once you let a Wizard in, though, you're admitting that there is actually some magic in this world, so I don't (personally) see how you can write off Holy Water.Because it's not actually holy water. It's still just tap water that some weirdo did the non-magical Macarena over, and it's completely non-magical.

Water affected by Bless Water is magical, because it's the result of a spell, and that's the substance that harms undead. Incorporeal undead are only affected by specifically defined materials (of which magical holy water is one, and non-magical tap water is not), and objects which are more than 10' thick.

Them's the rules. Sorry.

Strigon

2015-09-30, 09:57 AM

Because it's not actually holy water. It's still just tap water that some weirdo did the non-magical Macarena over, and it's completely non-magical.

Water affected by Bless Water is magical, because it's the result of a spell, and that's the substance that harms undead. Incorporeal undead are only affected by specifically defined materials (of which magical holy water is one, and non-magical tap water is not), and objects which are more than 10' thick.

Them's the rules. Sorry.

Unless I'm wrong (which I very well could be), nowhere does it say that the only way to make Holy Water is via Bless Water.

legomaster00156

2015-09-30, 09:58 AM

Unless I'm wrong (which I very well could be), nowhere does it say that the only way to make Holy Water is via Bless Water.
There is no other method within the rules.

Rubik

2015-09-30, 10:30 AM

Unless I'm wrong (which I very well could be), nowhere does it say that the only way to make Holy Water is via Bless Water.Even if holy water is an alchemical item, only spellcasters can create alchemical items.

Quertus

2015-09-30, 11:15 AM

Step 1 - Get other people's opinions about what to do as a Wizard 20 - perhaps by posting a thread about it on one or more popular forums.
1c) Do so in some way that it would be difficult to track back to me - teleport to a cybercafé, disguised via spells, try to find some way to leave no fingerprints/genetic material, etc.
1b) Look for anyone else creating similar threads, to see if anyone else a) suddenly woke up as a wizard and b) thought to test the internet for ideas
1a) Use divinations to determine the outcome of the above steps.

I can easily see divinations becoming a step I take before I take any other steps.

Mindrape would be my friend.

Step 2 - become immortal.
2a) check the internet for ideas, divining first.
2b) fallback plan - evil spell (from Book of Vile Darkness?) that permanently steals youth.
2c) other fallback plan - lich + develop spell to "reflesh" my bones.
2d) can I mindrape myself? can I mindrape myself back to Good (or at least Neutral)? I sure hope so...

If there are other wizards... divinations to see if they are hostile, friendly, etc; how they would react to me, etc.

Which means STEP 0 - Mind Blank! Don't want hostile wizards able to locate me, mindrape me, etc!

Or, if I got to choose my "build"... even as 20 levels of pure Wizard... can I use feats to lower metamagic costs to pull off a persistent timestop? If so, this makes divinations and contingencies much easier to set up before deciding what to do. It would probably be difficult to convince me to ever interact with a non-timestopped world, at least until I was done with all my divinations, spell research, etc. Definitely want to use Monte Cook's Unearthed Arcana to use mana-based spellcasting - IIRC, this would (among other things) eliminate the need for me to re-memorize my spells each day.

If I am the only wizard... self replicate. Simulacri are too expensive in 3e... although I believe someone suggested a solution for this earlier. Find ways for my selves to bring each other back from the dead.

Time travel would quickly become an interest. Which means trying to research spells to allow time travel, or, if that seems impossible, trying to use Sending to send to "GM" to ask for an edition change, preferably back to 2e (where Time Travel was a thing, and simulacra were not expensive). Use Time Travel and Time Stop to create 100% real movies of historic events. These would start out as "silent movies", until I developed spells and/or technology to allow me to extrapolate sound from within a time stop. Obviously, I would want my build to include skill ranks in appropriate skills (Craft:Movie? Profession:Camera Man? Perhaps even Knowledge:History). Movies of the future would be... problematic. I would want to develop spells to allow me to travel to "alternate" futures, or at least to any future I had ever visited to, so that, if I ever make a change, I can still go back to the future I had "erased". Hmmm... spells to allow me to undo any change I had made when I exit my time stop.

Develop spells to "fix the planet" - perhaps "Delayed Blast Repair Environment", so I wouldn't have to leave my Time Stop - I could just fly/teleport/walk around the world, leaving delayed blast crystals around the world to undo pollutants.

Perhaps develop spells, "Add Thread" and "Respond to Thread", that specifically *can* work while timestopped, or, at least, go off after I time travel. Sounds like I would want to invent a whole series of "Delayed Blast"-style spells, but that have a target rather than an area.

As to things other people had posted... would I care about taking over the world? Not really. Creating a cool home? As a place to store mementos, and famous items/paintings/etc taken just as they were about to be destroyed (and replaced with equal amounts of the same matter to prevent butterfly effects), perhaps. Improving the world? Beyond pollution? Curing world hunger would obviously be nice, but, as mentioned, could hurt farmers. Definitely want spells of time travel and undoing my actions before I try to fix anything. Colonizing other worlds? Probably not. If I did, I probably wouldn't let people in general know about the other worlds - just take people from history as they were about to die (replacing them with an equal amount of the same matter to prevent butterfly effects) and use them to populate new worlds. The new worlds could have a new world order, a new magical police force, etc... Perhaps even a whole new Necropolitan world? Hard to say what I might do.

Rubik

2015-09-30, 11:20 AM

mana-based spellcastingYou're basing your spellcasting off of "food" you find on the ground in the mornings in the desert? :smallconfused:

Svata

2015-09-30, 01:17 PM

I think he means Psionics, Rubik.

Rubik

2015-09-30, 01:25 PM

I think he means Psionics, Rubik.Is that in a splatbook?

Nifft

2015-09-30, 01:28 PM

Is that in a splatbook?

There's a bit of a splat when the mana lands, I guess.

Quertus

2015-09-30, 04:23 PM

Mana... Not psionics, spell points. Same basic idea, though.

If I made my build, definitely want Eschew Materials.

As for casting spells with expensive / XP components, and making magical items... well, if my only MAGICAL item is my spellbook, how about starting with Foci for my costly/XP spells? XP components for making items. Surely modern robotics would count as XP components for many fabrication etc spells.

And I'd be expecting the DM to be giving me RP XP because, well, you can't tell me I"m not roleplaying myself correctly ;)

Sentient

2015-09-30, 05:18 PM

Rubik

2015-09-30, 05:29 PM

I'd have sex with two hot 20 y/o women at the same time... using Charm Person on both.. timing the spell so that it ends around 5-10 minutes after we complete our activities.

I want to watch their face go from "You are the best friend ever." to "What have I done."I find the sentiment behind this post more than a little abhorrent.

However, I don't think Charm Person works that way. It'll make them act friendly, but they won't have sex with someone just because they like them unless they'd be willing to do that anyway.

Sentient

2015-09-30, 05:51 PM

I find the sentiment behind this post more than a little abhorrent.

However, I don't think Charm Person works that way. It'll make them act friendly, but they won't have sex with someone just because they like them unless they'd be willing to do that anyway.

Perfect example of how text communication sucks. I was making a self-deprecating joke about myself and you turn it into "Charm Person = Ruffies."

But if you want game rules.. simple Diplomacy check to turn Friendly into Helpful and at level 20 I got that roll made... Now I am just "The Most Interesting Man in the World" ... Stay Thirsty.

DMVerdandi

2015-09-30, 07:38 PM

You're basing your spellcasting off of "food" you find on the ground in the mornings in the desert? :smallconfused:

That would be Manna

Rubik

2015-09-30, 07:41 PM

Perfect example of how text communication sucks. I was making a self-deprecating joke about myself and you turn it into "Charm Person = Ruffies."

But if you want game rules.. simple Diplomacy check to turn Friendly into Helpful and at level 20 I got that roll made... Now I am just "The Most Interesting Man in the World" ... Stay Thirsty.Less "self-deprecating joke" and more "rape people for the lulz."

If you were aiming for the former, you rolled a double-nat 1 and got a horrible result on the critical failure chart.

That would be MannaI still don't see the words "spell points" or "power points" anywhere in there.

thecrimsondawn

2015-10-01, 01:00 AM

What would I do if I was a lv 20 Wizard?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBe8Nu2aa4Y

This about sums it up :3

Xar Zarath

2015-10-01, 04:48 AM

Hmm spell points would simply allow more castings of the same spell wouldn't it? They would only need to memorize one copy of the spell, correct?

Arael666

2015-10-01, 06:42 AM

This about sums it up :3

Go around killing catgirls? :smallconfused:

Rubik

2015-10-01, 06:44 AM

Go around killing catgirls? :smallconfused:Also known as "breaking physics in half."

Seems legit.

Quertus

2015-10-01, 05:52 PM

Hmm spell points would simply allow more castings of the same spell wouldn't it? They would only need to memorize one copy of the spell, correct?

Yup. Under most spell point systems, you never have to rememorize your spells again. Which means you don't lose your spells if you lose your spellbook (you just can't change what spells you have memorized without your spellbook). Not worrying as much about losing my spellbook was what I was mostly after.

FocusWolf413

2015-10-01, 06:02 PM

I'd probably go on this forum and ask what people would do.

Jay R

2015-10-01, 08:32 PM

Rubik

2015-10-01, 08:57 PM

"There can be only one."And people wonder why some of us want to optimize really hard.

I don't know about any of you, but I fully plan on coming out on top.

Of course, I'd rather just stop the infighting altogether, preferably with as little death and destruction as possible. We've had enough of that over the past 20,000+ years. We really don't need any more.

Nifft

2015-10-01, 08:59 PM

And people wonder why some of us want to optimize really hard.

I don't know about any of you, but I fully plan on coming out on top.

Of course, I'd rather just stop the infighting altogether, preferably with as little death and destruction as possible. We've had enough of that over the past 20,000+ years. We really don't need any more.

Absolutely.

And with infinite space available, there's not really any need for conflict unless you go looking for it.

Like, I mean, does your Moon Base really need to be in the exact same place as mine? The moon isn't exactly crowded at the moment. Two or three different Moon Bases wouldn't really put a dent in lunar real estate prices.

Rubik

2015-10-01, 09:25 PM

Absolutely.

And with infinite space available, there's not really any need for conflict unless you go looking for it.

Like, I mean, does your Moon Base really need to be in the exact same place as mine? The moon isn't exactly crowded at the moment. Two or three different Moon Bases wouldn't really put a dent in lunar real estate prices.And honestly, with full-on level 20+, T1+ casting, complete invulnerability isn't terribly difficult, even against other T1s, so it's not like I'd have to worry about anything anyone else can do, so why should I feel threatened by them?

However, for the few people who go off the deep end of the alignment scale and wreck **** up? Remember that making others invulnerable is just as easy. It's not nearly as much fun when everyone can play in your sandbox.

elonin

2015-10-01, 10:04 PM

Rubik

2015-10-01, 10:25 PM

I would have so much fun on holidays. All Hallows Eve? I may not raise the undead or want to unleash horrors onto the world, but that doesn't mean I can't use illusions and transmutation magic to throw the biggest and scariest Halloween parties in history. Solstmas? Give every person on the planet proof that a Santa Claus exists somewhere, even if he's not the same one they see in the malls. Boxing Day?*I'll Fabricate the best packaging materials ever produced by a Craft check.
*Yes, I know that's not what Boxing Day is.

Vizzerdrix

2015-10-02, 05:22 AM

Rubik

2015-10-02, 11:03 AM

Step 1 is to resurrect my ferret that passed.
Step 2 is to then polymorph all 3 of my ferrets into Mustival Archons
Step 3 is to bind them as familiars.
Step 4 is to create a demilane made of fuzzy hammocks, crinkle tubes, and small shiny objects.

Everything after that point is moot.This plan is the best plan.

Can we be wizard-buddies? Your ferret familiars and my otter familiars can be best friends. They can even visit my World o' Water Slides and Fun Tubes if you want.

Fair warning to anyone trying to invade my Plane of ferrety happiness uninvited: I'm devoting a third of my spellbook to spells from BoEF. You have been warned.I only hope this statement is unrelated to the ferrety goodness of the rest of the post.

Vizzerdrix

2015-10-02, 11:53 AM

This plan is the best plan.

Can we be wizard-buddies? Your ferret familiars and my otter familiars can be best friends. They can even visit my World o' Water Slides and Fun Tubes if you want.

Sure. We could also copy each others spells.

I only hope this statement is unrelated to the ferrety goodness of the rest of the post.

Correct. Just a deterrent.

So, what feats would everyone take?

Rubik

2015-10-02, 12:09 PM

Sure. We could also copy each others spells.I already plan on having all the spells. All of them. Except maybe some [vile] ones that have nothing but horrible uses. And I'm not sure if a wizard can copy from a level 1 ardent (with ML = HD) using the StP erudite minion/Psychic Chirurgery trick to learn them all.

So, what feats would everyone take?I know I'd take Wedded to History, three levels of cleric and Initiate of Mystra, Supernatural Transformation (Psionics), and a lot of metapsionic and metamagic-adapted-to-psionics feats. Heck, I've already got a list of all the ways to abuse the Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle to get lots of feats. I'm having trouble filling in all the slots, in fact. More than 2,100. I could fill them in with Metamorphic Transfer and such, but there're only so many times you'll need to use a Supernatural Ability from a shapeshifted form in a day.

legomaster00156

2015-10-02, 12:14 PM

I think everybody's missing the whole "Wizard 20" thing. :smallannoyed:

Rubik

2015-10-02, 12:26 PM

I think everybody's missing the whole "Wizard 20" thing. :smallannoyed:That's just what I started out as. I'm totally revamping my levels ASAP.

Vizzerdrix

2015-10-02, 12:35 PM

I already plan on having all the spells. All of them. Except maybe some [vile] ones that have nothing but horrible uses.

Then I'll keep room open for those, and a few interesting spells from 3rd party material.

Now I want to go stat up the feats and spells. I might do that and order lunch.

Also, could a laptop, tablet or smartphone double as a spellbook? :smallconfused:
Would save on having to craft a BBB.

Rubik

2015-10-02, 12:41 PM

Then I'll keep room open for those, and a few interesting spells from 3rd party material.Well, I don't want the [vile] ones. Most of them, anyway. Bleh.

Though if there are [vile] spells that have non-evil uses, I might be up for those. I'd have to look.

I'd go in for some spell/power research, though. There is a lot of potential for stuff that would be ridiculously useful IRL that wouldn't be in a D20 game. Store a top-of-the-line PC in your mind and connect to the internet whenever you want? Sure!

Also, could a laptop, tablet or smartphone double as a spellbook? :smallconfused:I'm sure we could make it work. There are rules for alternative spellbooks out there, after all. We'd just have to adapt.

Though I'd suggest keeping a copy in your head to avoid unfortunate accidents with small children and cups of soda.

legomaster00156

2015-10-02, 12:42 PM

That's just what I started out as. I'm totally revamping my levels ASAP.
But then what's the point? You're treating this as a character optimization exercise rather than an exercise in how someone with near-godlike powers could alter the real world. There are loads of char-op exercises elsewhere.

Svata

2015-10-02, 12:52 PM

But then what's the point? You're treating this as a character optimization exercise rather than an exercise in how someone with near-godlike powers could alter the real world.

Well, yeah, its kinda what we do.

Rubik

2015-10-02, 12:55 PM

But then what's the point? You're treating this as a character optimization exercise rather than an exercise in how someone with near-godlike powers could alter the real world. There are loads of char-op exercises elsewhere.I enjoy optimizing. My computer, my schedule, and life in general.

It's something I've thought about for a long time, and if I found myself faffing about with D&D powers in real life, I'd totally optimize the hell out of my own personal character build.

People who think it's "bad RP" to optimize one's character are idiots. I would totally optimize myself, and calling acting like me "bad RP" is stupid.

legomaster00156

2015-10-02, 01:48 PM

I enjoy optimizing. My computer, my schedule, and life in general.

It's something I've thought about for a long time, and if I found myself faffing about with D&D powers in real life, I'd totally optimize the hell out of my own personal character build.

People who think it's "bad RP" to optimize one's character are idiots. I would totally optimize myself, and calling acting like me "bad RP" is stupid.
Not once did I imply that optimization is bad. I am saying, however, that isn't it better to optimize within the limits actually set by the thread?

Rubik

2015-10-02, 01:51 PM

Not once did I imply that optimization is bad. I am saying, however, that isn't it better to optimize within the limits actually set by the thread?I guess, but honestly, I hate slot-based casters. If I had to stay wizard 20, I'd use spell points and find ways to pull in non-wizard spells (and then research psionic powers as spells), then cast spontaneously from my entire stored-in-my-head spellbook and find ways to regenerate spell points. It's doable, I'm sure, but psionics is just easier to manage, since there are ready-made options for all that.

Xar Zarath

2015-10-02, 11:52 PM

But then what's the point? You're treating this as a character optimization exercise rather than an exercise in how someone with near-godlike powers could alter the real world. There are loads of char-op exercises elsewhere.

There are always those who optimise up the wazoo in these kinds of threads. However there are also those who go by the parameters set by the OP. So no harm done, you get to see both sides and take interest in the posts you do like. If no one posted about turning in Stp erudite, Dark Chaos Shuffle, Pun-Pun, Dweomerkeeper, and Psionics in these kinds of thread the playground would implode from the lack...at least I think it would:smallbiggrin:

Anyway back to thread...what if despite stating time and again you're politically neutral, the world leaders/government still don't believe you, what would you do? I mean a walking talking nuclear power would be on the watchlist, wouldn't it?

For that matter, how would the world truly react if a real wizard came to Earth/came from Earth?

CIDE

2015-10-02, 11:55 PM

I changed my mind. After the self-optimization (doesn't really matter how/what at this point) I will deviate away from my big scary star ship plan. Instead I will don a blazer and bow tie while wielding a green tipped probe and travel around in a ship that's larger on the inside. Maybe a scarf instead. I can rock a scarf.

Now I just need some sort of catchy name or title....

legomaster00156

2015-10-03, 12:00 AM

Xar Zarath

2015-10-03, 07:37 AM

Nifft

2015-10-03, 09:13 AM

What if you decided to act as a patron to a country? You heal, restore, raise, protect and nurture this country/its people, what do you think the effect will be to it (and the people) and to the rest of the wider world? What would other governments and people think?

They'd publicly make fun of you for supporting socialist health care and selling milk in bags, and citizens from other nations would sneak across the border to get decent healthcare.

(That's basically Canada.)

Xar Zarath

2015-10-03, 09:18 AM

They'd publicly make fun of you for supporting socialist health care and selling milk in bags, and citizens from other nations would sneak across the border to get decent healthcare.

(That's basically Canada.)

It wouldn't be that bad...you would be like Superman, the Pope and Batman/Bruce Wayne all combines with the power to rewrite everyday rules of reality for your "worshipers"

Vizzerdrix

2015-10-03, 02:08 PM

What if you decided to act as a patron to a country? You heal, restore, raise, protect and nurture this country/its people, what do you think the effect will be to it (and the people) and to the rest of the wider world? What would other governments and people think?

You'd get murdered by another country. Your best bet is to quietly build your power for a few years then carve out your own nation using iron golems and undead. Or better yet, don't, unless you like politics.

Rubik

2015-10-03, 02:15 PM

Yeah, I'd be arranging everything behind the scenes. Manipulate the world into a Good-aligned planetary government that cracks down on humanitarian abuses hard and set up organizations to see to it that potential problems are nixed before they start, as well as fixing the ones already extant. Ensure the system keeps running smoothly by magically monitoring things, preferably with the help of a few archons and such. Then I'd have some fun.

ryu

2015-10-03, 03:57 PM

You'd get murdered by another country. Your best bet is to quietly build your power for a few years then carve out your own nation using iron golems and undead. Or better yet, don't, unless you like politics.

That would be a thing if there were even any that could pull it off. There is no muggle weapon or army that poses a real threat to the kind of wizards this forum makes.

Rubik

2015-10-03, 04:22 PM

That would be a thing if there were even any that could pull it off. There is no muggle weapon or army that poses a real threat to the kind of wizards this forum makes.How many d6s of damage does a full-yield, multi-megaton nuclear missile deal, anyway? And what kind of Str and Con damage does the radiation poisoning do? We need to figure these things out so that we have defenses up and ready at all times. I'm not sure even infinite hardness and immunity to ability damage would do much against a direct hit, and yes, we can always Contingent Teleport away prior to then, so maybe it's not such a big deal.

Though I'd rather hit the missile with a solid Forcecage, myself, to prevent collateral damage. That, or Plane Shift it to the Negative Energy Plane.

Troacctid

2015-10-03, 04:26 PM

That would be a thing if there were even any that could pull it off. There is no muggle weapon or army that poses a real threat to the kind of wizards this forum makes.

In other news, the Titanic is unsinkable.

Rubik

2015-10-03, 04:27 PM

In other news, the Titanic is unsinkable.It is if it's made from riverine.

Troacctid

2015-10-03, 04:34 PM

It is if it's made from riverine.

One disjunction later...

Rubik

2015-10-03, 04:35 PM

One disjunction later...I'm pretty sure muggles without access to magic items can't cast that.

ExLibrisMortis

2015-10-03, 04:49 PM

For all we know, nuclear missiles use some weird wording similar to lava, and fire resistance 1 is enough to be immune. Unless WoTC publishes a D&D 3.5 book detailing these things, we'll never know.

Rubik

2015-10-03, 04:54 PM

For all we know, nuclear missiles use some weird wording similar to lava, and fire resistance 1 is enough to be immune. Unless WoTC publishes a D&D 3.5 book detailing these things, we'll never know.8d10 disintegration/force damage per megaton, maybe? That would be enough to destroy most things. Especially if it ignored DR and half hardness.

ExLibrisMortis

2015-10-03, 05:22 PM

8d10 disintegration/force damage per megaton, maybe? That would be enough to destroy most things. Especially if it ignored DR and half hardness.
Nukes are on such a huge scale, that I would factor in distance, and use a logarithmic scale (I assume that you aren't throwing quite so many different nukes that the calculations become tiresome). Using example numbers: 20d6 damage for one ton TNT at point blank range*, add 2d6 every time you double the yield (that's about 40d6 for a kiloton, 60d6 for a megaton), and subtract 1d6 for every 100 feet you are away (so you take no damage from a megaton blast at 6000 feet, or about 1800 metres).

Eh... 20d6 from one ton TNT sounds too low, and maybe 1800m range for a megaton blast is too little. But that's the kind of system I would use.

Edit: perhaps you should make everyone within a 20' per doubling area take point-blank damage, and count the 100' increments from the edge of that area. For a megaton blast, that gives you a 400' radius sphere where everything takes 60d6 damage, plus a 6000' radius in which you take decreasing amounts of damage.

The central area would be completely cleared, including vaporising rock, but most of the outer damage is from heat (in the form of superheated air and extremely bright light (for unusual spectral variations of 'light')). Using a two-component damage, searing fire and disintegrate, of which the disintegrate portion falls off first, might simulate that best. That could be way complicated, but it's okay if you throw one or two blasts for story reasons.

Or I may be overthinking this. But nuke ∩ magic is worth it!

*Or use 10d6 for one kilo at point-blank, and 30d6 for a ton.

Using this reference (http://mythbustersresults.com/toilet-bomb), you see that a kilo of C4 (which is slightly stronger than TNT, Wikipedia tells me) can be stopped by a cast-iron bathtub, a bomb blanket, and a toilet. The bathtub has hardness 10, and the blast deals half damage to objects, allowing the tub to withstand up to 20 points of damage - which is roughly 6d6 averaged. Taking into account that the toilet was destroyed first, 10d6 for a kilo of TNT at point-blank seems fair enough. Effectively, the toilet absorbed 4d6 damage, even though explosions don't work that way in D&D.

Vizzerdrix

2015-10-03, 08:16 PM

Rubik

2015-10-03, 08:34 PM

However many D6 wouldn't matter. Yes you'd have HP, but that doesn't insure that real weapons will even effect them as opposed to just putting holes in you. Remember YOU wake up a Wizard 20, not, The world changes to conform to D&D rules.It would have to, as far as us wizards are concerned; otherwise, we'd need a ton of houserules to port everything from hp and temp hp to hardness to BAB and AC to saving throws for real people. We can give real effects numerical equivalents that would affect us and be affected by us in a way that is simulationist enough that the D&D rules could cover it. We'll assume for now that the numbers on things are relatively accurate, else there's not much point in thinking about this subject.

ImperatorV

2015-10-03, 08:36 PM

What would I do if I woke up as a level 20 wizard?

Step 1: Use divination to find if anyone else also became a wizard. If yes, find them and make sure they don't have any grand delusions of "fixing the world." Keep a celerity and contingent AMF on standby to be ready to fight them if necessary. In general, people who just want to do what they want are safe, anyone who thinks they know what's best for the rest of humanity is too dangerous to live should be reasoned with until they realize they are not infallible and no one should have such a huge power advantage over the rest of humanity. If they see me as a threat, however, no mercy shall be shown.
Step 2: Put together a group of intelligent young people with a wide variety of ideologies and backrounds. Teach them to be wizard 1s. Send them out into the world. Repeat a few times in different locations.
Step 3: Notify all governments and other high-level wizards that if they attempt to stop or control the spread of magic, I will hunt them down.
Step 4: Hunt down wizards and governments as necessary.
Step 5: Once magic has spread widely enough that no one wizard or small group of wizards can make sweeping changes to the world without meeting resistance, begin teaching wizardry to disadvantaged children across the world and making public speeches about my personal political beliefs, without using magic to force them on people.
Step 6: Wonder how the frick I turned out to be the guy democratizing magic when I often decry democracies.

Rubik

2015-10-03, 08:38 PM

What would I do if I woke up as a level 20 wizard?

Step 1: Use divination to find if anyone else also became a wizard. If yes, find them and make sure they don't have any grand delusions of "fixing the world." Keep a celerity and contingent AMF on standby to be ready to fight them if necessary. In general, people who just want to do what they want are safe, anyone who thinks they know what's best for the rest of humanity is too dangerous to live.
Step 2: Put together a group of intelligent young people with a wide variety of ideologies and backrounds. Teach them to be wizard 1s. Send them out into the world. Repeat a few times in different locations.
Step 3: Notify all governments and other high-level wizards that if they attempt to stop or control the spread of magic, I will hunt them down.
Step 4: Hunt down wizards and governments as necessary.
Step 5: Once magic has spread widely enough that no one wizard or small group of wizards can make sweeping changes to the world without meeting resistance, begin teaching wizardry to disadvantaged children across the world and making public speeches about my personal political beliefs, without using magic to force them on people.
Step 6: Wonder how the frick I turned out to be the guy democratizing magic when I often decry democracies.Huh. I take it that the first person you're going to stop is yourself?

ImperatorV

2015-10-03, 08:48 PM

Huh. I take it that the first person you're going to stop is yourself?

Hahaha! Touche my friend. I suppose in my mind, the difference between me and everyone else who thinks they know what's best for the world is I want to put everyone on a level playing field. I've seen a lot of people in this thread, and in the real world in general, that I heartily disagree with. I would not want to be ruled by them, and so I would think no one would want to be ruled by someone else with a different viewpoint. So, I think the best solution would be to prevent anyone from being in charge, by giving everyone the opportunity to have power. It won't be utopia but it's better then risking dystopia.

EDIT: I suppose I should edit my plan of action. I didn't originally have "Attempt to reason with them" in step one. That seems like something that should be done. It is now added.

See, this is just reinforcing my point. My original draft had me killing people who maybe didn't deserve it. No one can be trusted with such a huge amount of power, but given that some people are already wizard 20s in this exercise, moving everyone else up is the best solution.

Elkad

2015-10-03, 09:19 PM

Anyway back to thread...what if despite stating time and again you're politically neutral, the world leaders/government still don't believe you, what would you do? I mean a walking talking nuclear power would be on the watchlist, wouldn't it?

For that matter, how would the world truly react if a real wizard came to Earth/came from Earth?

Other than a bit of small/secret prep time, I have no intention of spending any time at all on Earth.

Dark side of Luna as soon as I can survive there. After some more prep time, get the hell out of the solar system as well. Establish demi-planes as soon as possible.
Anything I want Earth for can be done by proxy. Blow up my proxy and you've put yourself on a target list.

I was just considering lag-free internet access. 2-way scrying portal that is visible to a machine, with free-space optical networking to connect the two sides would work.

Rubik

2015-10-03, 09:33 PM

Hahaha! Touche my friend. I suppose in my mind, the difference between me and everyone else who thinks they know what's best for the world is I want to put everyone on a level playing field. I've seen a lot of people in this thread, and in the real world in general, that I heartily disagree with. I would not want to be ruled by them, and so I would think no one would want to be ruled by someone else with a different viewpoint. So, I think the best solution would be to prevent anyone from being in charge, by giving everyone the opportunity to have power. It won't be utopia but it's better then risking dystopia.

EDIT: I suppose I should edit my plan of action. I didn't originally have "Attempt to reason with them" in step one. That seems like something that should be done. It is now added.

See, this is just reinforcing my point. My original draft had me killing people who maybe didn't deserve it. No one can be trusted with such a huge amount of power, but given that some people are already wizard 20s in this exercise, moving everyone else up is the best solution.Problem is, there are things happening in this world at this very moment that need to be stopped as soon as (in)humanly possible. We still have child slavery, sex slaves, and large-scale drug trafficking murders happening right now, and if I had the power to do so, I'd make those blankety-blanks pay for all the lives they've ruined and destroyed. That stuff is irredeemably Evil, right there, with a capital E, and if someone has the kind of power a level 20 spellcaster has that doesn't stop it to the best of his ability, he is complicit in every single act that he could have prevented, especially since it would take so little to do. And that's not even including every bit of suffering and death due to disease and starvation that could just as easily be prevented with almost no effort whatsoever. "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem" does have limits, but those start well after "wave your hands, and you can make it all go away."

So some minimal level of responsibility is required, else we'd be responsible for everything that happens that we could have prevented. If it's a Herculean effort to fix, that's one thing. But when a bit of forethought and three seconds of effort can fix the world? Sheesh.

ImperatorV

2015-10-03, 10:16 PM

Problem is, there are things happening in this world at this very moment that need to be stopped as soon as (in)humanly possible. We still have child slavery, sex slaves, and large-scale drug trafficking murders happening right now, and if I had the power to do so, I'd make those blankety-blanks pay for all the lives they've ruined and destroyed. That stuff is irredeemably Evil, right there, with a capital E, and if someone has the kind of power a level 20 spellcaster has that doesn't stop it to the best of his ability, he is complicit in every single act that he could have prevented, especially since it would take so little to do. And that's not even including every bit of suffering and death that could be prevented due to disease and starvation that could just as easily be prevented with almost no effort whatsoever. "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem" does have limits, but those start well after "wave your hands, and you can make it all go away."

So some minimal level of responsibility is required, else we'd be responsible for everything that happens that we could have prevented. If it's a Herculean effort to fix, that's one thing. But when a bit of forethought and three seconds of effort can fix the world? Sheesh.

The problem with that attitude is that once you fix the biggest problems, you will move on to the next biggest, and then the next biggest, and, especially when you can make the problems go away by waving your hands, it becomes all too easy to come to something that wasn't as black and white as you thought, and "fix" it without realizing anything went wrong. Do you trust yourself to know when to stop? I wouldn't trust myself to know. Maybe it's because my religion is one of the ones black-listed by modern society and I live every day encountering people who think what I believe to be heinous crimes are good things. That tends to put a damper on things. If I ended what in my view is a horrible thing, there would be millions who thought I was trampling all over their rights. It's not hard to imagine that could apply to a large number of concepts, maybe ones I never even thought of. Perhaps slavery and murder are unambiguously evil. But what then? After ending those, do you take a step back and say "OK, I should stop here for a while and make sure I'm not about to commit crimes stopping crimes"? When you could use time stops to end a perceived injustice in six seconds of real life time? How do you judge what is right and what is wrong? Suuuuure, you can research a spell for that. Do you trust the D&D alignment system? Do you believe in exceptions to rules? Do you want to put the fate of a person on something you have no idea of the fallibility of?

Troacctid

2015-10-03, 10:34 PM

It would have to, as far as us wizards are concerned; otherwise, we'd need a ton of houserules to port everything from hp and temp hp to hardness to BAB and AC to saving throws for real people.

There are a ton of D&D novels that have Wizards and stuff and don't reference HP or BAB at all, and magic still works. If you woke up as a Wizard one day, how would you know which rules you're operating under? It could be 4e or 5e or AD&D or d20 Modern or Pathfinder or FATE or any number of other rule systems, or it could be based on a non-tabletop rule set like So You Want to Be a Wizard. If you make assumptions, you could make the wrong ones.

Rubik

2015-10-03, 10:42 PM

The problem with that attitude is that once you fix the biggest problems, you will move on to the next biggest, and then the next biggest, and, especially when you can make the problems go away by waving your hands, it becomes all too easy to come to something that wasn't as black and white as you thought, and "fix" it without realizing anything went wrong. Do you trust yourself to know when to stop? I wouldn't trust myself to know. Maybe it's because my religion is one of the ones black-listed by modern society and I live every day encountering people who think what I believe to be heinous crimes are good things. That tends to put a damper on things. If I ended what in my view is a horrible thing, there would be millions who thought I was trampling all over their rights. It's not hard to imagine that could apply to a large number of concepts, maybe ones I never even thought of. Perhaps slavery and murder are unambiguously evil. But what then? After ending those, do you take a step back and say "OK, I should stop here for a while and make sure I'm not about to commit crimes stopping crimes"? When you could use time stops to end a perceived injustice in six seconds of real life time? How do you judge what is right and what is wrong? Suuuuure, you can research a spell for that. Do you trust the D&D alignment system? Do you believe in exceptions to rules? Do you want to put the fate of a person on something you have no idea of the fallibility of?Some things are just non-negotiable. Those are the ones I'd focus on. Curing disease, fixing injuries, taking down child abusers, ruining the slave trade, taking down the drug cartels, fixing ecological disasters, etc etc etc. Much of the rest just isn't really worth being personally concerned about. I would consider setting up a system where people can relate their problems to a third party, who finds ways to help people overcome their own problems, and if necessary, magic will be used in the execution of the solution (via easily producible skill check boosters, if nothing else). Obviously, there'd be rules about things that won't be done, especially if it impinges on other people's freedoms. There'd have to be a series of evolving guidelines to make sure it's philosophically sound. Offering to help others is definitely important. And since it's helping others to help themselves, and encouraging people to think for themselves and solve their own problems helps keep things from devolving too far into "doing everything for everyone" territory.

I'd honestly have to put some real thought into exactly how to do it, especially after giving myself some major boosts to Int and Wis, and tossing in a number of skill- and ability-check boosters, to make sure I don't miss anything important.

Rubik

2015-10-03, 10:45 PM

There are a ton of D&D novels that have Wizards and stuff and don't reference HP or BAB at all, and magic still works. If you woke up as a Wizard one day, how would you know which rules you're operating under? It could be 4e or 5e or AD&D or d20 Modern or Pathfinder or FATE or any number of other rule systems, or it could be based on a non-tabletop rule set like So You Want to Be a Wizard. If you make assumptions, you could make the wrong ones.Except, in-world, those things are concrete things. You can tell someone's level with a spell or a skill check. You can tell how many hp someone has via the heal skill. Classes and class levels are concrete things that people can know just by judging your worth via the Appraise skill (as a slave, if nothing else). Spell levels and caster levels are definitive. Negative levels are things, and they can be quantified and measured.

It's like with Milo, from Harry Potter and the Natural 20. He's the natural end-point of such a system, especially if people actually pay attention to the way their world works, using the scientific method. It's silly, but it really is the way it would end up, though they might use differing terms and definitions.

Ruethgar

2015-10-04, 12:04 AM

Wizard 20
Improved Familiar: Mirror Mephit for obvious reasons
Create Device(Wondrous): So I can leave the universe with science instead of magic.

(1) I would ritually add chosen of Mystra and Endless to myself. This would allow me to actually cast spell on Earth(since we are often considered a dead magic universe) and give me a nice 1/day Sanctum Wish SLA and War Sanctum Genisis because one demiplane isn't enough.

(2) I would put fun things for children into the world, like portals keyed off of age to a demiplane of animated trees that protect and play with the children.

(3) I would give friends and family one of my demiplanes and a bloodline keyed teleporting portal stronghold to it and grant them each one wish in addition to a gift.

(4) I would spend most of my time shaping my demiplanes, terraforming the moon and Mars and creating life. Because unlimited creation is something I've always wanted.

(5) Because I am a god now, I would probably act to part a bit in an effort to steer the world in the right direction. Granting spells to people of good will for the betterment of the world.

(6) I would time stop and clean the air and oceans, regrow many forests and permanent ironwood a whole lot of them. Along those hippie dippy conservation lines, I would use one demiplane to create an ark for most of the species in the world today. True resurrect or PoA dinosaurs into three or four other arks or at least one badass zoo, because that couldn't possibly go wrong.

(7) Ethically speaking, using magic to directly sway people is a no in my book. I would grant spells to some people to expedite change for the better, but I would not directly interfere except in apocalyptic disaster, letting people deal with their own problems for the most part but giving them the tools to speed up the process. Of course I would disjunction and strip spellcasting from anyone using spells for making weapons and would slowly have their spells wane if used for personal gain.

Edit: I would then realize that I failed my fort save vs alcohol and heavily edit my post.

Xar Zarath

2015-10-04, 01:00 AM

Problem is, there are things happening in this world at this very moment...*snip*... and if someone has the kind of power a level 20 spellcaster has that doesn't stop it to the best of his ability, he is complicit in every single act that he could have prevented...

To have that kind of power and not do anything about the ills of the world, I do understand but not everyone wants to help. Some just want to explore and be selfish with their power but you do raise good points. However after a while there would be new stuff to fix and some of these issues could be very "complicated" like situations with migrants, "insert country name with another country name", and "religious stuff" and honestly what would you do?

Also since we're on the topic, Rubik what if you woke up one day to find out there was a Wizard. He's someone from this world but decided that with his power and knowledge he was just gonna keep it to himself? What would be your thoughts on the matter, considering how much good he can do?