Getting my family started

[Narkis]

Hello there, long-time OotS and Erfworld fan and forum lurker, I registered to ask a question. Hopefuly it's the right section.

Anyway, I started playing dungeons and dragons a couple months ago, when I finally found someone interested in my college. Now I'd like to get my family playing RPGs too, when I get back to my hometown in the summer. Initial inquiries show that they're interested, but I think that D&D will be too complicated for them to start. I'd like to hear some suggestions for something simpler, preferably using normal dice to ease the transition. Also I'd like it to have some pre-generated adventures, since I have no experience in DMing. They all like fantasy stories, my father (and me) loves science fiction, and my sisters and mother love Harry Potter. I figure the women will be the hardest nuts to crack, so if there's something even vaguely similar to Harry Potter, that'd make my job easier.

Sorry for the block of text, and thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[TheOOB]

It's not the dice that make D&D difficult, its the largly inconsistant rules.

Anyways, lots of systems are easier to pick up. True d20 by Green Ronin has much in common with D&D, but is way more streamlined and simple to play (They only use a d20, only three classes with no class abilities just feats/powers, No stat numbers, just modifiers, ect). Best part is that unlike D&D, the true d20 system is fairly universal so it works for most any kind of campaign (though like all d20 systems, combat is its strong point).

Shadowrun 4e is suprisingly easy to play so long as you don't get too deep into the matrix/hacking rules. It's also a versitile system, but die hard cyberpunk doesn't translate well into a family setting.

The World of Darkness settings can be pretty easy to learn as well, but once again they arn't the best family games.

[Narkis]

Aye, I agree about the rules. I just think it'd be more familiar to a traditional board-game without weird-shaped dice.

True20 looks promising, I'll have to find out more about it.

Shadowrun would be good for a game with friends, but, as you said, cyberpunk is not very family-friendly

Same goes for World of Darkness. Sucking the blood of the innocent wouldn't be a good introduction to RPGs, me thinks.

[Pauwel]

If your family likes Lord of the Rings you could use Decipher's LotR RPG, which uses six-sided dice. Or you could modify it for another genre, although that might be a bit hard if you haven't GM'ed before.

Actually, there is a free Harry Potter RPG on the Internet based on the very system (Decipher's CODA, it's called). You can find it... here (http://home.mchsi.com/~gandalfofborg/Harry_Potter_RPG/index.html).
I haven't looked at it very thoroughly, though, so it might, y'know, suck, but I think it looks pretty good.

[squishycube]

I think any system is too hard for a new player if you throw the entire system at them all at once.
If I were you I'd pick a system I know and just take my players by the hand. Instead of forcing them to call things by their rules name, ask them what they want their character to do. You then tell them how they could do it (and what the maneuver is called!). This will gradually expose them to the rules and in an order they are interested in.
Be careful with too many "you can't do this, you can't do that", keep it positive and don't focus on the rules too much at the beginning. Also, let them try. I always get very annoyed when a game (esp. computer game) doesn't let me do something because it disrupts the plot. Let me fail then, so I know I can do it, but shouldn't.
Depending on the players you could also consider making the game not very lethal but make sure they don't realise this.

[Irreverent Fool]

Though it's difficult to get ahold of these days, back in the early 90's Milton Bradley produced a board game by the name of HeroQuest (possibly Hero's or Heroes', I don't fully recall). They also came out with expansions and a version called -- creatively enough -- Advanced HeroQuest. TSR had a slightly more advanced version called Dungeon Quest which I can only imagine was meant to be a basic-basic D&D. I don't know which came first.

My point is, these are excellent points to start with RPGs, especially in a family environment. HeroQuest has simple, easy-to-follow board game rules, but very much a Dungeons & Dragons fantasy adventure feel. The board is divided up into rooms and hallways and through the use of monster miniatures, map tiles, and free-standing plastic doors, becomes the setting for about 20 levels of dungeon. You have four characters: The barbarian, the dwarf, the elf, and the wizard. Replace the barbarian with 'fighter' and you have classes from the 'Basic Dungeons & Dragons' of yesteryear.

I hear rumors from my local hobby shop that a rerelease of this classic has been scheduled for sometime in the coming year, but they may just be rumors.

Edit: Apparently if you'd like to take a look at it, the company has released all of the original material (minus the plastic miniatures and furniture) via the internet http://heroquestbaker.altervista.org/hero_quest_set_base_english.htm has pretty much all of the original material. You may need some explaination about the dice, but I think it's probably in the rulebook.

[factotum]

Actually, I would say d20 isn't that bad as a starter system--everything follows the same basic method (roll d20, add bonuses, subtract disadvantages, see if it worked). Sure, a 20-sided dice may look a bit weird to someone who's never seen one before, but you can be confident that the thing that'll REALLY confuse them is how the heck you roll a d4 effectively. :smallbiggrin:

[Meschaelene]

I read the title of this thread and thought, "Well, first, you should find a nice girl (or boy, depending), and then, if/when you love each other very very much..."

Now I see that you have a family, and are trying to start them in gaming. Ahhh... OK.

D+D is really pretty easy at lower levels with the basic books -- and character generation (which is where you are likely to lose new players) is super simple.

In its basic, I've always felt that a RPG is basically shared storytelling, so it's only really important that you know the rules. Your players can just say, "I wanna go stab that orc over there!" or "I wanna cower behind my sheild!" Once you have their attachment to their character and to the story, teaching the rules goes a lot smoother.

[Jayabalard]

Just my opinion: D&D is one of the best entry level gaming systems, which is why it's been so successful. You can iron out some of the complicated rules pretty easily.

But if you still want a different system: GURPS is as complicated or as simple a system is you want it to be... if you stick to the simple version of most of the rules, you may be able to get really close to what you want

it has a couple of advantages/disadvantages over D&D:

No dice used other than d6; all success fail rolls are done the same way, rolling 3d6, trying to roll lower than your skill
No classes, it's a point based system, so you can wind up with exactly the sort of character you want (if you know what you want); this is both an advantage and a disadvantage, since people have to have a better idea of their character concept for this sort of character creation.
Only 4 basic attributes ST, DX, IQ, HT; there are a few derived ones, but they're not complicated.
since it's a generic system, it has official genre and world books for a wide variety of stuff, and once you start adding in fan created books, it can cover nearly anything. GURPS world books generally have more detailed information than you see in most other systems, and it's usually the type of information that you can use in other systems.
you can download GURPS: Lite (http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=SJG31-0004) to take a look at it if you're not familiar with the system.
I haven't used it or even really read it, but quick google tells me that there's a netbook for GURPS: Harry Potter (http://www.sabledrake.com/2002/0205_harry_potter1.shtml)



If you're going to give gurps a try, get with them individually and help them them run through the "a night on the town" individual adventure (I think that's still in the one of the basic books, but I'm not sure... I haven't switched to 4th ed yet)... it's alot like a "choose your own adventure" book with some mechanics thrown in, so it's not a huge amount of rules all at once.

After that, get everyone together, talk through campaign ideas, create characters that fit and go from there.

[Tormsskull]

I think any system is too hard for a new player if you throw the entire system at them all at once.

I agree with this. Basically I would just create a very simple and direct adventure for starters, not worrying if it is full of cliches. You might want to even create characters for the players so that when they sit down they aren't faced with an incredible amount of choices.

Explain to them that in D&D they are their characters, and they can try to do anything they can think of. Throw some easy to solve puzzles in the game, make the encounters against the party 1 or 2 CR below what they should be, etc.

You'll probably be surprised how fast they start to pick everything up. I would highlighting the very important or frequently used portions of the character sheet [combat, saving throw, skill checks]. Highlight each one in a different color, and then when someone needs to make a save, for example, you'd say "Look towards the yellow highlighted section, what does it say there next to Reflex?"

Anyhow, good luck.

[Dizlag]

If you're going the D&D route, then you'll want to look at these Original Adventures (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/oa/20030530b). The Burning Plague (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/oa/20000801a) is a great starter adventure for DMs and Players a like.

I suggest stick to core rules only and take the first session to roll up characters. Yes, it's a bit complicated but I would take pre-generated skills/equipment examples in the PHB for each class to start. For instance, if your dad wants to play the fighter, deck him out with the example skills and equipment listed in the PHB under the fighter class.

And try to keep it simple like factotum suggested ... roll d20, add bonuses, subtract disadvantages, and check the result.

Good luck!

Dizlag

[Telonius]

I'd suggest that you stick with only a few classes to start: Fighter, Rogue, Sorcerer, and Cleric. Core only. Wizards, Bards, and the rest are just too hard to play to start with. Bump down the encounter difficulties to start out, and don't worry about EXP guidelines; give out maybe 500 exp for killing the dire rat, 1000exp for the orc in the 10 foot room guarding the treasure chest. The important thing is that they get the sense that they're doing something and progressing a bit. Ratchet up the difficulty as they get better at using the rules.

[Narkis]

Thanks for the suggestions and the advice guys, looks like deciding what to start with will be more difficult than I thought.

Also, I read somewhere about a Star Wars d6 system published by West End Games, as well as a d20 one by WoTC. I'm thinking of using one of them with my father. Does anyone know if they're good, both for new players and in general?

[Tormsskull]

Thanks for the suggestions and the advice guys, looks like deciding what to start with will be more difficult than I thought.

Also, I read somewhere about a Star Wars d6 system published by West End Games, as well as a d20 one by WoTC. I'm thinking of using one of them with my father. Does anyone know if they're good, both for new players and in general?

Star Wars D20 is pretty cool, but I had a hard time creating the right atmosphere for Star Wars. Plus the rules on ships, how fast they move, fighting against other ships and such confused me.

Plus, everyone always wants to play a Jedi (who could blame them?) and thus the group tends to be akwardly based.

[LongVin]

Old World of Darkness system is really simple and easy to get into. You can get a game going with even a bunch of newbies within 30 minutes if you explain the traditions/clans depending what type of game you are playing beforehand.

[Green Bean]

Old World of Darkness system is really simple and easy to get into. You can get a game going with even a bunch of newbies within 30 minutes if you explain the traditions/clans depending what type of game you are playing beforehand.

But is it really something you'd want to show the whole family? It's always seemed a little dark to me.

Anyhow, you could use DnD rules as long as you keep it simple (like ditching AoOs for the first little while), then build gradually.

[TO_Incognito]

If you're dead set on progressing to D&D 3.5 eventually anyway, get the Basic Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/966470000) or the old Adventure Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndcore/863490000) (the Adventure Game is 3.0, the Basic Game 3.5). They're actually a pretty good deal; the Basic Game gets you a set of dice and 16 miniatures you can continue to use, and the Adventure Game a set of dice and a bunch of pretty sturdy cardboard tokens with artwork on them. They come with pre-generated adventures, too. You'll probably be totally dissatisfied with their simplicity, but your family can pick either one up in 10 minutes.

[LongVin]

But is it really something you'd want to show the whole family? It's always seemed a little dark to me.

Anyhow, you could use DnD rules as long as you keep it simple (like ditching AoOs for the first little while), then build gradually.

It doesn't have to be dark. And only Vampire is really dark, the rest are so-so dark. I would say no darker than regular Dungeons and Dragons, afterall in D&D you are always trying to kill some super evil force that is trying to take over the world.

[Ravyn]

One thing you might want to consider is spending a little while running a pseudo-freeform--that'll get your less technically-minded people into the idea of roleplaying without scaring them off with large numbers of complicated rules (improvise yourself a resolution system and you're good to go). Then, once they're hooked, switch them into something with mechanics. Gives you the advantage of being able to use whatever setting you feel like without having to worry about specialized stuff--and if they know it's supposed to be short-term, you shouldn't have too much trouble when you move on.

As an added bonus, it gets you a feel for their playstyles--you'll know ahead of time what sorts of "unexpected" you're likely to be able to expect. Whether they tend towards fighting or negotiation (and how likely they are to try--and succeed--in recruiting their antagonists), how likely they are to pull out off-the-wall tactics, whether they enjoy puzzles--and the more you know, the more luck you'll have when you're writing for them later.