Ability check enhancers?

[Seharvepernfan]

Assuming just core, what are the rules for magic items that give you a bonus to ability checks, like the circlet of persuasion? I'm curious how they did the pricing for it, and if a higher bonus or a bonus to other abilities would be kosher.

[sleepyphoenixx]

It's not listed in the guidelines, so you'll have to make something up.
Assuming a similar pricing structure to skills and ability scores i'd say it's bonus squared x 500gp. That fits the circlet at least.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Assuming just core, what are the rules for magic items that give you a bonus to ability checks, like the circlet of persuasion? I'm curious how they did the pricing for it, and if a higher bonus or a bonus to other abilities would be kosher.

If I had to hazard a guess, bonus squared times 500gp. They like to use bonus squared times constant a lot in the magic item guidelines.

[Seharvepernfan]

+5 to init/dex skills or str checks for 12,500 seems way too cheap.

[ericgrau]

+5 to init/dex skills or str checks for 12,500 seems way too cheap.
That's true. The circlet is quite powerful for turning undead, charm person, skills and so on but even so charisma checks do seem weaker than some other ability score checks.

Hmm, actually +5 to str checks doesn't seem that strong compared to a 3,000 gp adamantine weapon. Maybe the only issue is initiative and "except initiative checks" could solve everything.

Let's check some other uses:
Int: Noticing a scry spell, avoiding drawbacks of a contact other plane spell... Oh sweet frickin' jeebus. Maybe this whole thing is just a bad idea... Escaping a maze spell, talking with an ettin, making logical deductions in game, plane shifting to the correct plane with a 120k gp amulet of the planes.

Wis: identifying a poison with detect poison, maneuvering in a plane with subjective gravity, understanding your lycanthropy (to help overcome its drawbacks), escaping a time hop.

Str: arm wrestling or similar contests, bull rushing, breaking stuff, escaping a web or entangle spell or many other similar special abilities, operating a pulley elevator, holding a creature with a net

Dex: Just initiative (and skills) in core.

Con: Holding your breath, forced marching more than 8 hours, surviving without water, surviving while pinned uner earthquake rubble.


So the big issues seem to be initiative and being able to safely divine anything in practice like what wizards usually only do in forum theory. The other way is to have a 40 int. EDIT: Actually this only has an 88% chance of success and it's a 1 word answer, but it's still powerful.

[Seharvepernfan]

Overrun and trip are strength checks as well.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Overrun and trip are strength checks as well.

Meh, trip needs the help and overrun is so rarely used that I actually forgot it was a thing.

[Sian]

Grabbling is either a Str (if initiating) or prehaps a Dex check (if defending against and prefering to use Dex instead of Str)

[Necroticplague]

Bull-rush is also a STR check.

[ericgrau]

Grabbling is either a Str (if initiating) or prehaps a Dex check (if defending against and prefering to use Dex instead of Str)

You're thinking about the tripping rules. However grappling is a check and it involves strength, so oddly enough that makes it a strength based check, even though it's supposed to be similar to an attack roll.

[Seharvepernfan]

You're thinking about the tripping rules. However grappling is a check and it involves strength, so oddly enough that makes it a strength based check, even though it's supposed to be similar to an attack roll.

I asked about this a while ago in the rules thread, and curmudgeon said it's not a strength check.

[Crake]

I asked about this a while ago in the rules thread, and curmudgeon said it's not a strength check.

Yeah, ability checks are defined under the skill section as essentially untrained skill checks, or just checks for things with no associated skills (such as the things mentioned so far in this thread) and is just a d20 plus the ability modifier (plus things that specifically modify the ability check, duh :smalltongue:)

[Necroticplague]

Right. Grapple isn't a STR check because the definition of such would be a roll that's just 1d20+STR. Meanwhile, grapple is 1d20+BaB+STR.

[ericgrau]

Right. Grapple isn't a STR check because the definition of such would be a roll that's just 1d20+STR. Meanwhile, grapple is 1d20+BaB+STR.
The circlet of persuasion says "Charisma based checks" though. Does grapple still not qualify as a "strength based check"?

That's why the circlet of persuasion works on charisma based skill checks which are 1d20 + cha + ranks + misc, rather than cha checks only.

[Deophaun]

The circlet of persuasion says "Charisma based checks" though. Does grapple still not qualify as a "strength based check"?

That's why the circlet of persuasion works on charisma based skill checks which are 1d20 + cha + ranks + misc, rather than cha checks only.
If you wanted to be really evil and perhaps get books thrown at you, you could argue that any check that you can somehow get Charisma applied to (such as through one of the Marshal's auras) is now a Charisma based check.

And that was how a circlet of persuasion let me kick down an adamantium door.

[Necroticplague]

The circlet of persuasion says "Charisma based checks" though. Does grapple still not qualify as a "strength based check"?

That's why the circlet of persuasion works on charisma based skill checks which are 1d20 + cha + ranks + misc, rather than cha checks only.
I agree wholly. Grappling is a STR based check, it's just not a STR check. So things that work with STR based checks will work, but ones for STR checks won't.


If you wanted to be really evil and perhaps get books thrown at you, you could argue that any check that you can somehow get Charisma applied to (such as through one of the Marshal's auras) is now a Charisma based check.

And that was how a circlet of persuasion let me kick down an adamantium door.

I've actually used a somewhat similar trick. The character was a ghost, and since TK let you use some combat maneuvers with CHA instead of STR, that makes them CHA checks. Thus, Marshal Aura (motivate Charisma) let her get twice her CHA to bull-rushing and tripping. Not to grapple, but BaB 12 at level 6 does wonders for that check.

[Deophaun]

Not to grapple, but BaB 12 at level 6 does wonders for that check.
Mantle of Freedom would get it applied to all grapple checks, because freedom is a zero-sum game apparently.

Strangely, I don't think that trick with the Marshall's Aura should have worked by RAW. While you are replacing Strength with Charisma, it's still called a Strength check, even if it is now Charisma based. I think it would have to say "make an Intelligence or Charisma check" instead of "use your Intelligence modifier or Charisma modifier" for a strict reading to work.