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DracoDei
2007-05-17, 02:47 AM
EDIT: This is an old post and, as such, it is against the forum rules to respond to it. If you have comments, then please PM me, or start a new thread with a link in it to this one.

Announcement: Voting for MitP II is now over, this made it in, thank you all who supported it. Critiques still very much welcome. I can NOT speak for Victorious Press, but PERSONALLY I wouldn't mind seeing more examples of these creatures. PM for suggestions on posing.

The following image is copyright Susan Felice Folmer, and is used with permission. Do not use without permission.
Spoilered for 1756x1275 size.

http://www.taur.net/~ottercomics/mps/empty_skin_color.jpg


These creatures should usually be employed for atmosphere. This should be the cat curled up on the decadently evil noble's bed or lap (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RightHandCat), or the Unicorn pacing in a dead orchard in the courtyard of a vampire's castle, in a mockery of its purpose in life.


It appears to be a normal creature until you notice that there is only empty space behind the lids of the eyes and the lips(except for a moist tongue).


An Empty Skin is necromantic creation designed to be the perfect pet or animate decoration. At the creators option (chosen at the time of creation) it may appear to breath, be as warm as a living creature, and/or have a moist tongue and/or nose. In a sharp departure from the behavior of most undead (especially created undead) their default attitude toward most creatures is one of affection (but not cooperation per se). This can, however, be overridden by orders from someone they recognize as their owner. An Empty Skin can speak if the base creature could speak, and understands all languages it knew in life plus one language known by the creator.

A Empty Skin can be created by a spellcaster capable of casting Create Undead, or a single one may be created by a caster of at least caster level 15 using Animate Dead. In the second case it counts as quadrupedal its hitdice (but always as at least 4 HD) when calculating how many HD may be controlled under that spell. The corpse must be first be expertly prepared with a Craft[Taxidermist] (Heal may be substituted at a -5 penalty). The DC depends on the size and if the creator wishes to include a tongue. It must then be tanned using rare reagents and oils. The DCs (for the skinning only) and costs (for the tanning only) are given in the following table:

Fine..........DC 30 50 gp
Diminutive..DC 25 100 gp
Tiny..........DC 20 200 gp
Small.........DC 15 500 gp
Medium......DC 20 1,000 gp
Large.........DC 20* 2,000 gp
Huge.........DC 20* 5,000 gp
Gargantuan DC 20* 20,000 gp
Colossal.....DC 20* 80,000 gp

Tongue +3 DC

*Note that while the DC does not continue to increase above medium size the time required does.

Tanning requires 3 days regardless of size.

The remaining corpse can still be animated as a skeleton or incorporeal undead if desired and/or the intestines and/or stomach(s) can be extracted to create a gut snake, dark heart, pair of floating lungs, and/or Hopping Stomach(s). See the links in my signature for the listings for these.

Creating an Empty Skin
An animated skin is an acquired template that can be applied to any animal, or magical beast, or shapeshifter that died in the form of one of these. Rumors of aberrations, dragons, giants, fey, humanoids, and/or monstrous humanoids as animated skins are unconfirmed

Size and Type
The creature’s type changes to Undead. It uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here. The creature's size does not change, however its weight is reduced to 1/10. Some Empty skins are filled with sand, sawdust, or other such materials (usually kept from leaking out with a piece of cloth sewn just behind the eyes and mouth), these materials are not part of the creature, and having them leak out causes no damage to it. This material also does not count against the encumbrance limits of the creature (GM's discretion(sp) on trying to fill them with gold dust or the like for transport...).

Hit Dice
The base creature's racial hit dice (if any) are halved in number and become d12s. It loses any class levels it had. If class levels were the only source of hitdice it becomes a 1/2 HD creature.

Speed
No change to existing forms of moment, but gains a special slither mode that has a speed of 5 ft [1 square] and a very limited gliding ability (See Deflate).

Armor Class
No change

Attacks
The base creature retains all natural weapons that deal bludgeoning damage. Other attacks may or may not be retained (see below). The animated skins base attack bonus is as the original creature. Poison is lost.

Damage
Bite attacks now do no damage unless the creature has a beak, in which case their damage is unchanged. Any other attacks that deal slashing and/or peircing now do subdual bludgeoning damage and decrease two die sizes (if this would decrease it past 1 hp damage then the attack deals no damage).

Special Attacks
The base creatures special attacks (if present in each case) are modified as follows:
- Any ability drain or damage is lost, but attack forms that do these in addition to other

damage may be retained in the reduced state.
- Breath Weapon - Lost
- Constrict - Unchanged
- Energy Drain - Lost
- Fear Aura - DC halved
- Fear cone or ray - Lost
- Frightful Presence - DC halved
- Gaze - Lost
- Improved Grab - Unchanged
- Poison - Lost
- Psionics - Lost except for telepathic communication abilities which are unchanged.
- Rend - Lost
- Ray - Lost
- Sonic Attacks - Lost
- Spells - Lost
- Swallow whole - holding capacity doubles. Deals no damage and the amount of damage required to cut ones way out is reduced to one quarter (the hollowness special quality does not reduce damage dealt from piercing weapons in this case).
- Trample - Unless filled with sand or similar substance then due to greatly reduced weight dice reduced by 2 sizes and does subdual damage.
- Trip - Unchanged


Special Qualities
The base creature loses any previous special qualities and gains the following:

Destruction Resistance (Su)
An Empty skin has turn resistance equal to its original HD, but ONLY in cases where it would otherwise be destroyed. If it is not destroyed in such a case it is instead turned.

Lifelike (Ex)
As long as the insides are not visible it requires a spot check of DC 20 + the amount the original Craft[Taxidermy] or Heal check was beaten by to discern that the Empty Skin is not alive. Examples of such situations include but are not limited to: being viewed from behind, curled up with head under tail or rear leg, or eyes and mouth closed, etc. An observer gets a +5 bonus on this check if the creature is not simulating breathing. The continued production of natural oils/sweat that keeps the skin in perfect condition means that DC of a Survival or Wisdom check to distinguish an Empty Skin from a living animal by the Scent Feat is a straight DC 20.

Hollowness (Ex)
Immune to bludgeoning damage, takes only one point of damage from any successful piercing attack, normal damage from slashing. An Empty Skin also counts as two sizes smaller for purposes of bull-rushes and the effect winds have on it. They take only one quarter falling damage, even if they fall on something sharp. Being filled with something that adds the weight back negates all of this except the resistance to piercing and immunity to Bludgeoning.

Deflate (Ex)
They may go limp and 'deflate' at will allowing them to be packed away when not needed or for transporting (including smuggling) them. Deflating is a swift action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity, re-inflating is a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity. When deflated then can fold themselves up, or unfold themselves (both Move actions that provoke attacks of opportunity), when unfolded they lose there normal forms of movement but can slither around (looking a little like a manta ray and functionally similar to a slug's motion works both over the ground and as a swim speed) at a speed of 5 ft [1 square] and fit through a crack of the following size provided that no horns or hooves are large enough to prevent this. If so, add the diameter of the horns or the height of the hooves, whichever is greater, to the minimum thickness of the crack.
Fine 1/16th inch
Diminutive 1/8th inch
Tiny 1/4 inch
Small 1/2 inch
Medium 1 inch
Large 2 inches
Huge 4 inches
Gargantuan 8 inches
Colossal 16 inches

While deflated they take no falling damage (which they would normally be immune to anyway due to their immunity to bludgeoning damage), and they may move sideways 5' (1 square) for each 20' they fall.

Being filled like sand or sawdust negates the deflation ability, but having taken on water or other liquid simply means that the fluid flows out as the Empty Skin deflates. If no barrier is sewn in an empty skin can cough up particulate contents at the GMs discretion.

Vulnerability to Fire (Ex)
Empty Skins take one extra point from every damage die done from a fire source.

Fast Healing 1 (Su) - The spells that maintain the Empty Skin in perfectly groomed condition despite wear and tear are so strong that they will repair it even in the midst of a battle. Some owners enjoy being able to let off emotional energy abusing their Empty Skins, who will never turn against them no matter how many times they are thrown about or even slashed and stabbed almost to destruction.


Saves
An Empty Skins Base saving throws are unchanged from the original creature. Recalculate Fortitude and Will based on statistic changes.

Abilities
The base creature modifies its ability scores as follows:
Strength halved to a minimum of 1.
Dexterity is unchanged
Constitution changes to -.
Intelligence changes to 5.
Wisdom increases to 10 if lower than that, otherwise unchanged.
Charisma increases by 4 points.

Skills
The base creature does not receive any bonus skills. It loses all Intelligence based skills, and Survival. It retains all racial skill bonuses. It gains a +10 bonus to jump checks for its lightness (provided it is not filled with sand, sawdust, etc).

Feats and Spells
The base creature retains all feats except Scent, but loses all spellcasting ability. In addition, it also gains the Negotiator Feat but only with respect to its owner.

Alignment
Usually True Neutral

Advancement
None

CR
-2 if this reduces it to zero or lower use 1/2 the original creatures CR.


EDIT: Linking these for cross-referencing purposes, although I am not sure if the Spell is a good idea at all since it reduces the flavor by bypassing the skill checks.
Gut spell (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29539)by The Vorpal Tribble
Cat Skinning Blade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/printthread.php?t=166119) by DM-Ninja

Single Shot Zombie
2007-05-17, 07:45 AM
So basically this is an animated skin-bag of air? Talk about your air-heads. :smallbiggrin:

Few suggestions/nitpicks:

- Because it's mostly gaseous inside, it should be lighter than normal. Make it resolve grapple checks and bull rush attempts (and maybe trip attempts) as though it was one or two sizes smaller. It should also be affected by wind effects as though it were two sizes smaller. Also, it shouldn't trigger traps based on weight that easily.

- The "Add 3 DC for a wet tongue bit" seems kinda esoteric. Hmmm........


An Empty Skin is necromantic creation designed to be the perfect pet or animate decoration. At the creators option (chosen at the time of creation) it may appear to breath, be as warm as a living creature, and/or have a moist tongue and/or nose. An empty can speak if the base creature could speak, and understands all languages it knew in life plus one language known by the creator.

Looking from what you said above, maybe you could make it such that the undead creature is hard to distinguish from a normal creature of its type (DC 15-20 Spot Check), and adding to the DC of the Craft/Heal check will make the creature more "lifelike", increasing the Spot Check DC by 5-10.

- The Int decrease I'd understand; they're literally air-heads. But why would they have increased Charisma? Don't tell me that losing your brains (and the rest of your innards) makes you a more eloquent speaker. :smallconfused:

Otherwise, it's a cool concept. Doesn't do much, but it's semi-indestructible. Imagine having the PCs smacking one of these things around with giant mallets........

Pity you couldn't make one out of a Vermin. Otherwise, you'd get........this (http://www.serebii.net/potw/292.shtml).

DracoDei
2007-05-17, 09:59 AM
- Because it's mostly gaseous inside, it should be lighter than normal. Make it resolve grapple checks and bull rush attempts (and maybe trip attempts) as though it was one or two sizes smaller. It should also be affected by wind effects as though it were two sizes smaller. Also, it shouldn't trigger traps based on weight that easily.

Edit: Added most of this. Decided grapple wouldn't be directly effected since the creature has the same firmness, just less weight and the reduced strength already effects that.



- The "Add 3 DC for a wet tongue bit" seems kinda esoteric. Hmmm........

I suppose so, but it is only about 20 words out of several hundred... we will let it stay... because it just wouldn't be the 'perfect' dog if it couldn't greet you at the door and slobber all over your face in ecstasy at your presence... and I know that when a cat deems me worthy of 'grooming' that it means something to me.



Looking from what you said above, maybe you could make it such that the undead creature is hard to distinguish from a normal creature of its type (DC 15-20 Spot Check),...

Edit: Fixed.



...and adding to the DC of the Craft/Heal check will make the creature more "lifelike", increasing the Spot Check DC by 5-10.

Edit: Made this effect automatic.


- The Int decrease I'd understand; they're literally air-heads...
Realizing that animals are going to be the most common targets, this is actually usually an increase... :smallbiggrin: , but I take your point.


But why would they have increased Charisma? Don't tell me that losing your brains (and the rest of your innards) makes you a more eloquent speaker. :smallconfused:

This is intended to represent their "perfect pet" status... they are models of affection and 'good breeding' in every way. Fawning and submissive if that is what the master prefers, and its greatest desire is to please. If people think this is the wrong way to model this then suggest something else, but I think something is needed to support the fluff...



Otherwise, it's a cool concept. Doesn't do much, but it's semi-indestructible. Imagine having the PCs smacking one of these things around with giant mallets........
Like the intro says it is USUALLY mostly for atmosphere. Although having the villain pull a Warhorse out of his backpack and ride off can be an important plot mechanic... or a deflated constrictor snake laying on top of valuables in a closed container.



Pity you couldn't make one out of a Vermin. Otherwise, you'd get........this (http://www.serebii.net/potw/292.shtml).
Exoskeletal creatures are quite doable mechanically, they just would require a bit of extra effort/space to add, mostly as being exceptions to many of the rules about how attacks are effected. They would also be damaged normally by bludgeoning weapons. The CR modifer might change to -1... although many vermin rely on poison heavily so... hmmm... still a Giant Preying Mantis Empty Skin would be pretty tough. From a fluff perspective it might be seen as too different of a situation for the spell to work.

Edit: Do people think the extra verbage would be worth it?

DracoDei
2007-05-20, 06:21 PM
Bumping due to lots of edits happening since my last post.

Khantalas
2007-05-20, 06:24 PM
Beast type doesn't exist in 3.5. Just to point that out.

DracoDei
2007-05-20, 06:27 PM
Beast type doesn't exist in 3.5. Just to point that out.

Thanks. Fixed.

detrevnisisiht
2007-05-21, 06:07 PM
thanks man this is just what i needed for my campain :smallbiggrin:

DracoDei
2007-05-21, 07:01 PM
Thank you... in the interests of play testing it would you be willing to post how it went in this thread when you are done?

Poppatomus
2007-05-30, 11:58 PM
An unreserved yes.

Icewalker
2007-05-31, 01:59 AM
Wow.

While I don't have the time to read through it now, this is a very cool idea.

I can see an adventure based off this. Some great zoo or something that is really some massive fraud. Possibly with malicious plans...

I really like the idea of the villains cat.

So I'm not voting yet, gotta read through it, but I like what I've read so far.

Lord Iames Osari
2007-06-07, 08:40 AM
Very interesting. I'll give it a MitP Vote: Yes.

Also, the notation for supernatural abilities is (Su), not (Sn).

FoeHammer
2007-06-07, 12:14 PM
MitP: YES

I see this as being a sort of butler. You walk up to Baron Von Badguy's house only to have a ogre balloon offer to take your coats. Heh, priceless.

OR...

The king approaches you to find out why his knight, Sir Shiny McGoodsword, is full of hot air about Von Badguy's treatment.

Whoo... Punning stops here.


Or here.








here?

Icewalker
2007-06-11, 02:06 AM
Sure, I like it. I may use it for the cat, or even better, a parrot (considering I am making a sea-based campaign). Woo! Pirate with the magical empty parrot!

Mitp vote: yes

Maerok
2007-06-13, 08:18 PM
MitP Vote: Yes

I would try to fit one of these around an animated skeleton frame. :smallbiggrin:

DracoDei
2007-06-13, 08:58 PM
As written that would be relatively useless I would think... they would be controlled by different 'minds' and so would tend to get in eachother's way... I guess if you only had the skeleton try to move under very specific circumstances, and the Empty Skin to go limp during those times that could work, but I am not QUITE seeing the point. Please explain?

deadfalcon
2007-06-24, 01:15 PM
Such a good idea. I'm definately gong to have to find a way to use this :smallbiggrin:

Mitp Vote: yes

Anxe
2007-06-29, 01:52 PM
I'll give it a Mitp: Yes. I might use this one too if my players find any necromancers. Thumbs up!

Trauco
2007-07-05, 08:38 PM
I SO want to fill one of this thingies with poisonous gas.

Kidnap a nobleman, turn him into one of this thingies, fill him with gas, send him to the mask dance...

DracoDei
2007-07-05, 10:47 PM
Then have him slash his belly open in the middle of the densest part of the crowd and deflate? That is actually a pretty nice trick...

keyboardboy101
2007-07-07, 09:44 AM
This is a great alternative to the everyday animations + how often do we actually use a craft[taxodermy] skill in our campaigns? MitP: Yes.

Use it to slide under doors and open it from the other side. Inflate a messenger and send him with a letter (explosive runes) to the local king. Or just having a cat without having to clean its litter box.

This is perfect for my campaign. Thanks.

DragonTounge
2007-07-09, 11:02 AM
Cool idea. MitP: Yes

BelkarIsAGod
2007-07-10, 01:22 AM
This is SO AWESOME.
Could you fill this with a creature in gaseous form?
That would make an wicked infiltrator. (the new butler stabs the dagger into his stomach. A great stream of vapour rises from the gaping hole and coalasces into a Great Deamon)
This would make most players wet themselves.

MitP Vote: Yes.

DracoDei
2007-07-10, 01:39 AM
Well, people seem to be forgetting that you would have to work up at LEAST the eyes with an illusion or something for the creature to pass all but the most impersonal of inspection. As for the gaseous form thing I don't think volume really changes with that spell, only composition. Others would probably know better than me, and I don't feel like looking it up, but I would say that the gaseous creature certainly would have to be at least slightly (not even a full size class, but at least slightly), smaller than the Empty Skin... also, if you don't need it to be airtight (as with poison gas) with a willing gaseous passenger, the passenger can just flow out through the mouth without the Empty Skin needing to damage itself.

P.S. Are people remembering to seriously look at the Giraffe-a-pump? I know the name is a bit silly, but it serves a useful role and I am not allowed to change the name.

BelkarIsAGod
2007-07-10, 01:42 AM
you don't need it to be airtight (as with a willing gaseous passenger, they can just flow out through the mouth without the Empty Skin needing to damage itself.
Stomach slicing is more dramatic, though.:smalleek:

DracoDei
2007-07-10, 02:12 AM
Hmm... you make a very valid point.

streakster
2007-07-11, 04:17 PM
Heh heh heh...you could deflate them, pack a bunch into a large one, and play "Russian Doll".

Guard: Do you have anything to declare?
Me: Just the inflatable army hidden in this ordinary-looking fat man.
Guard: Oh, you necromancers and your crazy jokes!

MITP VOTE: Heck Yeah!

TheEscapist
2007-07-12, 12:59 AM
I think you already have enough votes, but I'll add another YES because I really, really like this one.

I especially like the idea of someone pulling an inflatable warhorse out of their backpack and escaping on it. :smallbiggrin:

EvilElitest
2007-10-23, 09:18 AM
That is really horrifying i have to say, i've already created an cult that worships these freaks
from,
EE

DracoDei
2007-10-23, 05:29 PM
They worship subservient things with an intelligence of 5? I know I gave them +4 to charisma, but unless someone is pulling the strings of the Empty Skins (which, actually, is the default state for them...) then that is taking things a bit too far I should think...

DracoDei
2008-12-14, 09:41 AM
Shameless necro-bump because I added Felice's excellent picture to the original post (although after she did it we figured out how it could have been even better).

Zeta Kai
2008-12-14, 12:36 PM
Since it's been necrotized already, I might as well say that I loved this the first time around. I went to save a copy of this today, & I discovered that I already had a copy of it from July of last year. I need to put one of these in my campaign, just to blow my players' minds.

DracoDei
2008-12-14, 02:32 PM
Please report how it goes if you do... we get next to zilch play-test data in this area of the forum.

Zeta Kai
2008-12-14, 04:27 PM
Please report how it goes if you do... we get next to zilch play-test data in this area of the forum.

All chiefs, no Indians. :smallsigh:

DracoDei
2008-12-14, 06:42 PM
All chiefs, no Indians. :smallsigh:

Yeah, that probably covers it...

Lord Loss
2009-07-12, 05:32 AM
It didn't get into MITP??? WHAT??? :smallfrown: These are amazing monsters.
Remember: when GITP won't listen to your idea for a monster, go ahead and make a Sourcebook. (Seriously, my gaming store stopped stocking 3.5!!!!, now I need to buy everything online!!!)

I'm using these (although probably not in Norskull, that campaign lost half the players. In my new campaign, Shadow of the Heir. It's about Orcus, Evening Glory and that dude who's the patron of ghouls.

DracoDei
2009-07-12, 05:56 AM
This most certainly DID make it into MITP(fairly easily I think)... of course that project is on indefinite hiatus due to legal complications*. As for using it in you campaign, detailed (as in, the exact situation that you placed them in, their personality(-ies) and how each character reacted to them and why if possible), playtest data would be EXTREMELY welcome. You don't have to go to that depth, but SOMETHING would be very nice.


*The not-for-profit publication fell through, and the company(Victorious Press) that formed from playgrounders and took up the project realized they would need money for lawyers to make the releases work since such sent as forum PMs might or might not stand up in court.


P.S. Thread Necro much?