Help with character concept

[woggy222]

Hi, so, okay. I have a character floating around in my head and I'm trying to figure out a way to represent them in the 5e mechanics - and without being utterly useless. I'm not looking for "completely and totally optimized" here, but enough to be a functional party member, and not The Load.

The general concept is of a "divine archer" - a combination of minor spellcasting and a more serious emphasis on archery. The 4e Cleric paragon path of the Seldarine Dedicate is actually fairly close (Divine Power, p51), except of course that's the wrong edition.

So far all I've managed to come up with is some sort of multiclass Fighter/Cleric (Cleric domain either Light or Life, Fighter archetype...hmm, I think Champion, though the draw there is largely in being able to dip for both the Dueling and Archery fighting styles)- except that seems to lead straight into MADness - Dex and Wis, at the minimum. Ranger sits wrongly on account of the character is actually not terribly fond of Nature(tm) - for similar reasons I'm shying away from Wood Elf as a race, for all that it makes "sense". High Elf or Variant Human are a lot more in line with background (Noble).

Thanks in advance.

[Malifice]

Fighter cleric works well.

War domain abilities work with Ranged weapons (guided strike, divine strike and channel divinity).

You can dump Strength totally, and use a finesse weapon like a rapier (it deals dex to hit and damage) as does your longbow. Sharpshooter is a must.

Champion Fighter 11, War Cleric 9 will get you your 2 fighting styles, 3 attacks per round, and 5th level spells. Dump Str, Int, Cha; Max Dex, Wis, Con

Wood elf or Human works best for race. (you should probably bite the bullet with the Wood elf, its emchanically the best race along with human)

[MrStabby]

Ranger cleric might be an alternative. You will get more spell levels and a wider choice of spells with ranger added over fighter.

[woggy222]

Ranger cleric might be an alternative. You will get more spell levels and a wider choice of spells with ranger added over fighter.

Ranger is, alas, hilariously inappropriate for the character's mindset and life outlook.

[Malifice]

Ranger is, alas, hilariously inappropriate for the character's mindset and life outlook.

Wood Elf is out?

[UXLZ]

How standard is your setting/chargen rules? In my own campaigns there's basically no restriction on how stuff is fluffed (as long as it's reasonable.) Someone can play a Human character with the mechanics of a Wood Elf for instance, with changes where appropriate. (Darkvision as a result of lucky mutation rather than a racial trait, for instance.)

On another note, I doubt Wood Elves are universally 'tree-hugging forest lovers' or whatever it is that conflicts with your character. Neither should all Rangers be exactly the same, I'm sure there's a way to make it work if you've got a reasonably flexible GM.

[woggy222]

How standard is your setting/chargen rules? In my own campaigns there's basically no restriction on how stuff is fluffed (as long as it's reasonable.) Someone can play a Human character with the mechanics of a Wood Elf for instance, with changes where appropriate. (Darkvision as a result of lucky mutation rather than a racial trait, for instance.)

On another note, I doubt Wood Elves are universally 'tree-hugging forest lovers' or whatever it is that conflicts with your character. Neither should all Rangers be exactly the same, I'm sure there's a way to make it work if you've got a reasonably flexible GM.

While neither I nor my GM is averse to refluffing as necessary, I was mostly bouncing around ideas to see if it was workable under RAW. Variant Human works well enough for the concept.

[Malifice]

While neither I nor my GM is averse to refluffing as necessary, I was mostly bouncing around ideas to see if it was workable under RAW. Variant Human works well enough for the concept.

Vuman is perfect.

Deity?

[UXLZ]

Would you prefer being a ranger multiclass instead of a fighter one, though? The most important thing is to think about what you'd enjoy playing more first.

Battlemaster is significantly more interesting than champion (to mine own eyes, at least) and its superiority dice mechanics lead to a feeling of being more "Skilled" than the champion. (The heavier focus on archery.)

[woggy222]

Vuman is perfect.

Deity?

Homebrewed pantheon - the deity in question is Light/War, NG.


Would you prefer being a ranger multiclass instead of a fighter one, though? The most important thing is to think about what you'd enjoy playing more first.

Battlemaster is significantly more interesting than champion (to mine own eyes, at least) and its superiority dice mechanics lead to a feeling of being more "Skilled" than the champion. (The heavier focus on archery.)

I would much prefer fighter, for this character anyway. As for Battlemaster vs Champion...well. I'm leaning towards Champion at least in part because I have a tendency to forget about All The Things My Character Can Do, and it's going to be complex enough with the Cleric spellcasting list. Which is perhaps a little bit of a Doylist reason, but it's true.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Battlemaster is significantly more interesting than champion (to mine own eyes, at least) and its superiority dice mechanics lead to a feeling of being more "Skilled" than the champion. (The heavier focus on archery.)

Coming from someone who has ended up DMing a LOT of Fighters, Champion is the superior option. The Athlete ability more than makes it worthwhile, since skills are sort of at a premium. It's a flat boost to your abilities without adding new, fiddly mechanics. My players who went BM as opposed to Champ were very unhappy with their choices after only a few levels.

Just another opinion to consider.

I'd recommend a Fighter/Bard actually. Fighter works as the archer's base, and Bard adds some very worthwhile spellcasting, without adding spells that would compete with your bow attacks. Lots of utility spells, for sure.

[Malifice]

Homebrewed pantheon - the deity in question is Light/War, NG.



I would much prefer fighter, for this character anyway. As for Battlemaster vs Champion...well. I'm leaning towards Champion at least in part because I have a tendency to forget about All The Things My Character Can Do, and it's going to be complex enough with the Cleric spellcasting list. Which is perhaps a little bit of a Doylist reason, but it's true.

Champion Fighter 11/ Cleric (War) 9
Variant Human, NG
S 10, D 15(16) C 14, I 8, W 15 (16) Ch 8


Start Fighter at 1st (Con saves). Pick up archery F/S and the sharpshooter feat (from human). Shoot stuff at +2, ignoring cover dealing 1d8+13 damage. Wear light armor, bring a shield and rapier for backup.
Dip cleric at 2nd level so the concept is up and running. Select war domain for the War priest ability (granting you 3 attacks per day as bonus actions)
Once you hit 3rd level, head back to fighter and ride it out to 5th level (Character level 6) for extra attack. Select champion for your path. At 4th increase Dex with your ASI.
After 6th level, go back to cleric for 4 more levels to 10th (Fighter 5/ Cleric 5) getting you the ability to add +10 to a ranged attack after missing, and third level spells. For your feat at Cleric 4, take Dex to 20.
From 11th level, jump back into Fighter and ride it out to 16th level (Fighter 11/ Cleric 5). At 6th level and 8th level, select a fluffy feat (Alert, Resilient (Wisdom) and Lucky would be fantastic choices)
Take cleric levels for the rest to 20th, rounding Wisdom out to 20.

[woggy222]

Champion Fighter 11/ Cleric (War) 9
Variant Human, NG
S 10, D 15(16) C 14, I 8, W 15 (16) Ch 8


Start Fighter at 1st (Con saves). Pick up archery F/S and the sharpshooter feat (from human). Shoot stuff at +2, ignoring cover dealing 1d8+13 damage. Wear light armor, bring a shield and rapier for backup.
Dip cleric at 2nd level so the concept is up and running. Select war domain for the War priest ability (granting you 3 attacks per day as bonus actions)
Once you hit 3rd level, head back to fighter and ride it out to 5th level (Character level 6) for extra attack. Select champion for your path. At 4th increase Dex with your ASI.
After 6th level, go back to cleric for 4 more levels to 10th (Fighter 5/ Cleric 5) getting you the ability to add +10 to a ranged attack after missing, and third level spells. For your feat at Cleric 4, take Dex to 20.
From 11th level, jump back into Fighter and ride it out to 16th level (Fighter 11/ Cleric 5). At 6th level and 8th level, select a fluffy feat (Alert, Resilient (Wisdom) and Lucky would be fantastic choices)
Take cleric levels for the rest to 20th, rounding Wisdom out to 20.


This is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for - thanks a bunch! :smallsmile:

[Malifice]

This is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for - thanks a bunch! :smallsmile:

No worries mate; its not totally 'optimised' but it'll be an effective character all the way through to 20th.

You cant go wrong with Sharpshooter.

Eventually it'll spit out 7 attacks with the long bow (3 from the attack action, 3 more from action surge, and 1 more with a bonus action from war priest) with each hit dealing 1d8+15 (and the first sucesful hit dealing an extra 1d8) scoring a crit on 19-20. If you miss you can guide them back on target with channel divinity (+10 to hit).

You'll get good heals, buffs and utility from your spells. With rearkable athlete plus Dex 20 pus Alert feat, you get +13 to initiaive.

Do everything in your power to hunt down a magic item known as an 'Oathbow'. Tell your DM its a precious relic of the faith, and its your sworn quest to find one of these sacred magic items (or other fluff reasons).

[woggy222]

Do everything in your power to hunt down a magic item known as an 'Oathbow'. Tell your DM its a precious relic of the faith, and its your sworn quest to find one of these sacred magic items (or other fluff reasons).

That shouldn't be too hard a sell. What's so awesome about it? (i don't have sourcebooks to hand at the moment)

[bid]

Yeah, fighter 5 (archery style) and cleric 8 (any domain with divine strike) is the core of the build. Ranger 5 / Nature 8 would be your evil twin from another dimension.

Fighter 11 and War domain if nothing else fits your concept better.

[Sigreid]

Ranger is, alas, hilariously inappropriate for the character's mindset and life outlook.

You could always try to talk your DM into letting you take favored enemy Nature. Nature wronged you and now you're out to make it PAY!!!

[Citan]

Hi, so, okay. I have a character floating around in my head and I'm trying to figure out a way to represent them in the 5e mechanics - and without being utterly useless. I'm not looking for "completely and totally optimized" here, but enough to be a functional party member, and not The Load.

The general concept is of a "divine archer" - a combination of minor spellcasting and a more serious emphasis on archery. The 4e Cleric paragon path of the Seldarine Dedicate is actually fairly close (Divine Power, p51), except of course that's the wrong edition.

Thanks in advance.

I plus Malifice proposition, not MAD and viable all the way.
You could also do Life or War Cleric/ Hunter Ranger to get another balance in damage (a bit more towards mass cleaner).

You'll be mainly a Hunter Ranger, going at least up to 11 for Volley.
Ranger 11 / Cleric 9 (or 12/8 for ASI) nets you the following:
2 or 3 attacks every turn (with Horde Breaker) until you get Volley (from 0 to 8 creatures, can be situational though) with Hunter's Mark.
Cleric for buffs and heal spells, favoring non-concentration spells.
Drawback of this build is the potential concurrence between Cleric and Ranger spells for concentration.

So I quote it here FYI, but unless you like the fluff behind the classes (notably Ranger), it's not the best choice.

Two other options for the divine fluff would be Devotion Paladin / Fighter or Paladin / Bard. Less straightforward than Fighter/Cleric (notably because the STR 13 requirement) but can work also if you don't want to be too much restrained by the "dinivity venering" aspect of roleplaying a cleric.

Paladin 3-4 / Fighter 11+. Start as Fighter up to lvl 6 to get Archery Fighting Style, then dip the 3 levels of Paladin to get Oath Feature:
- either Devotion (with high CHA) to totally offset Sharpshooter malus and be great against everyone when it counts.
- or Vengeance to strike this BBEG.
Then continue Fighter all the way (whichever archetype).

You'll have very little spellcasting capability (unless you also dip Bard or take Eldricht Knight) but you will be a very good archer with great chance to hit for heavy damage, either against anyone (Devotion) or the one that counts (Vengeance).


Devotion Paladin 6 / Lore Bard 14
Start as Paladin up to 6 then switch to Lore Bard.
Paladin nets you great defense (Armor, Aura), +CHA to hit and useful buff spells. Bard brings you all the best spells you could wish for with Magic Secrets (Swift Quiver, Haste, Elemental Weapon, Hex etc).

This is a true alternative to Fighter / Cleric, but plays differently. You compensate the lack of 3rd attack by pulling high-level Elemental Weapon, Haste or Swift Quiver, maybe casting a non-concentration Bestow Curse on an enemy. You also get access to 7th level spells and have globally a more versatile set of spells.
You even get a Smite spell usable on ranged attacks, contrarily to the previous suggestion. And it makes this character good in close combat too, with solid defense and smites, should the need arise.

Note that all these suggestions consider Sharpshooter feat as a given. Difference is that thanks to Devotion, you can take it a bit earlier:)

EDIT: Aaw, sorry, did'nt notice the hints in your posts towards simplicity and "non-Ranger". You may find my last suggestion too "spellcastish" then. ^^

[woggy222]

Interesting suggestions. My objection to them is actually mostly from, the character feels much more "right" as a WIS-based caster rather than a CHA-based one. Persuasive, they're not.

[Malifice]

That shouldn't be too hard a sell. What's so awesome about it? (i don't have sourcebooks to hand at the moment)

Magical Bow from the DMG.

1/day it grants advantage on ranged attacks, ignores cover and long range, and you deal an extra 3d6 damage with it per shot.

[UXLZ]

I'll support Malifice's build from a mechanical standpoint. If Woggy's fine roleplaying someone both stupid and uncharismatic, then it's a good build.



Coming from someone who has ended up DMing a LOT of Fighters, Champion is the superior option. The Athlete ability more than makes it worthwhile, since skills are sort of at a premium. It's a flat boost to your abilities without adding new, fiddly mechanics. My players who went BM as opposed to Champ were very unhappy with their choices after only a few levels.


Seriously? I found Champion so boring to play as in combat. Admittedly, if you're multiclassed with a spellcaster that probably won't be an issue.

Then again, I'm the kind of person that tends to dislike flat boosts to abilities unless there's already something interesting to work with. Discounting combat options like Grapple that everyone gets, Champion fighters can... Move and attack. That's it.

However, that's my personal opinion, some people prefer the flat bonuses to power.

[Starsinger]

Since you're not necessarily interested in being the most optimized, your words, why not just straight War Cleric? Divine Strike, Sharpshooter, the level 1 feature, and the 2nd level channel divinity all combo nicely together.