Can you help me evaluate the value of this?

[SangoProduction]

So, I am deciding between Dark and Shadow. Shadow makes thematic sense, but Dark is supposed to simply be a light weight version of shadow, so it works too.

I can either LA buy off, or spend the point buy points in exchange for not being affected by the LA, effectively. Assume I also convinced the GM to reduce the Shadow's Shadowblend to Hide in Plain Sight as a Flaw (getting a feat in exchange). I can also probably convince him to allow Shadow to have +6 to hide checks (as its move silently also has has that, but hide...well, when you auto-conceal, it's not needed, usually).

The 2 Shadow abilities I am planning on getting (this being a semi-low magic world), is DR 5/magic, and Fast Healing 1. I'd gain +5 move speed (in base form) from Shadow. And I'll pick up plane shift or Mirror Image here soon. (I could get the luck bonus to saves, but as mentioned, it's semi-low magic, and my saves are decent as is. I don't think I need it.)

So, is the above paragraph worth an extra 7 point buy points [for LA +2 compared to +1]? (It works just fine as far as my character idea goes.) Or, is it worth the extra xp cost it will take to buy it off?

[OldTrees1]

Just checking:
Is this an nonE6 game but the DM is allowing the E6 exclusive homebrew pointbuy alternative to LA?


Without those 7 14 points(Shadow Creature is LA+2), do you still meet your ability score requirements? (ex: A combat reflexes based fighter wants to spend 6 points on Dex for the cheap +AoOs)

If you meet your ability requirements then the answer is easy(since +numbers pales in comparison to the Shadow Template). Else, what do you have to give up?

[SangoProduction]

Just checking:
Is this an nonE6 game but the DM is allowing the E6 exclusive homebrew pointbuy alternative to LA?


Without those 7 14 points(Shadow Creature is LA+2), do you still meet your ability score requirements? (ex: A combat reflexes based fighter wants to spend 6 points on Dex for the cheap +AoOs)

If you meet your ability requirements then the answer is easy(since +numbers pales in comparison to the Shadow Template). Else, what do you have to give up?

Yes to the first question. (Although possible that we will just go with LA buy off.) 7 points relative to if I took Dark instead. And yeah, I meet ability requirements very easily.
What else I give up? I'm not sure.

[Greenish]

Isn't Shadowblend just a standard action (as in, Su ability without specified action) to gain Concealment?

Also which version of the Dark template are we talking here? (And thus, which version of HiPS?)

[SangoProduction]

Isn't Shadowblend just a standard action (as in, Su ability without specified action) to gain Concealment?

Also which version of the Dark template are we talking here? (And thus, which version of HiPS?)

There's a different version? Well, here's the one I found http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/dark.shtml

[Greenish]

Ah, that's the older one, with the weaker version of HiPS. There is a newer version, but the source is rather obscure (Anauroch, The Empire of Shade).

Basically, hiding requires concealment and not being observed. The version of HiPS you have there only removes the requirement of not being observed, leaving you still requiring concealment. So, basically the same as the ranger skill of the same name, except rangers get another class feature that removes the concealment requirement. Another version of HiPS is more like the Shadow Dancer one, which eliminates both requirements (though occasionally comes with its own restrictions).


Anyway, I'm not sure I'd call even the weaker version of HiPS a downgrade worth a feat over Shadow Blend, unless of course your DM has a different ruling on Shadow Blend's action cost.

[Troacctid]

If you're not getting shadow blend, then Fast Healing and DR 5/magic don't strike me as being worth a penalty like that to ability scores. They're strong early on, but will fall off at mid levels when out-of-combat healing becomes trivial and enemies start dealing more damage. Plane Shift is good, though.

If you can afford the hit, it wouldn't be unreasonable to go for it. However, if shadow blend is out of the picture, I think you can do better.


Isn't Shadowblend just a standard action (as in, Su ability without specified action) to gain Concealment?

It gives you total concealment, obviating the need for a Hide check completely. Even if you rule that it requires a standard action to activate, it doesn't require any action to maintain and it lasts indefinitely.

FWIW the concealment requirement for HiPS isn't too big a deal when you already need shadowy illumination. Shadowy illumination usually grants concealment.

[OldTrees1]

Yes to the first question. (Although possible that we will just go with LA buy off.) 7 points relative to if I took Dark instead. And yeah, I meet ability requirements very easily.
What else I give up? I'm not sure.

Hey, if you meet all your ability requirements, then jump for it! After meeting requirements all further boosts to ability scores are just +numbers. You can buy +numbers easy enough for cheaper than buying qualitative improvements like the Shadow Template.

Now, LA Buyoff might be cheaper depending on if xp is a river at your table.