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View Full Version : Call to all DMs and those seeking creative collaboration to benefit their games.



Ajmes
2015-09-26, 10:49 PM
I realized at this point in my life I don't have quite as many friends who are interested in playing tabletop games, and even less who feel up to a creative challenge. I'm currently designing my own pnp rpg, and am nearly done, but I find myself wishing I had friends who I could talk to about such things, like ideas for spells or the generation of creature concepts, or npcs, etc. It made me think of all the original ADnD spells that Gygax made with names in them, like 'Bigby's Hand' or Mordenkainen, coming from input from his friends who came up with their own concepts for magic spells, presumably having the name of one of their characters forever attached to the spell as part of their legacy of influence.
This is me putting the call out to any like-minded individuals who wish to talk and discuss such things, if not for something so creatively inspired, then at least to help each other as sort of long distance Co-DMs 'in spirit' so-to-speak. DMs/GMs preferred, but creatively motivated players would certainly be welcome as well.

While posting on boards is fine, I would prefer adding people on Skype perhaps, so anyone who was around at a given time could just check and see if anyone else was available, and if not they could just leave a message.

I'm really hoping I get some feedback on this, since I long for collaboration of this sort, and it has proven very difficult to come by.

Best Regards To All -James

Regitnui
2015-09-27, 01:35 AM
I'll be glad to toss around ideas, though Skype is a little tricky for me. Personal Messenger here should get hold of me, and work well enough to share details if you'd like to get hold of me some other way.

Terrador
2015-09-27, 01:54 AM
Honestly, I'd be super in on this. This kind of **** is my jam. My pedigree as a player and especially DM is... sparse, to say the least, for lack of consistent and enjoyable groups. That said, I'd like to believe I have no little knack for worldbuilding cohesion (just generally asking the right sorts of questions, less so Zeusing up a world full-formed from my brow :P), and I'm no chump when it comes to balance either. And if you don't believe me or it turns out I'm not helpful at all, I'm more than willing to take my cue and swooce out!

I don't have any games in formation right now, but I've wanted to get a Legends of the Wulin game going for literal years (though I'd settle for most any system with a good, consistent playerbase). Any PM gets my Skype/contact information, I'm pretty chill about that.

Ajmes
2015-09-27, 06:53 AM
Honestly I'm just thrilled that anyone responded. Don't worry about 'not being helpful', I've had friends already say almost nothing and trigger ideas.
In fact, that's what led me to seek out people like you, since I asked some friends for ideas within fairly specific criteria, and am usually met with 'I don't know'. They don't even try! =( #FirstWorldGMProblems lol

(Some background about me and my game, bare with me, I promise this will be the only wall of text I post here)
After years of experience with fantasy media of all kinds, and a staggering amount of television series and movies viewed, as well as over half a dozen different rpg systems, I've been left with a wealth of information to draw on. It just so happens I have a real knack for strategy(ENTJ Meyers Briggs Type), and am a science student, so I'm lucky enough to also have a fantastic memory. When I was younger I had trouble with accidentally being a successful power gamer, although I never had the immature tendency to try and break the game, it just kind of tended to happen until I learned to intentionally handicap myself.
I studied a bunch of game systems and found there were things I really liked about some, and aspects I didn't, so I took the D10 system of 'Riddle Of Steel' and 'World Of Darkness', took aspects of 'DnD' and made alternative health tracking for save-or-die/suck spells, and aspects of 'Call Of Cthulu' with it's psychological system and adding a few more unique mechanics here and there to cover things I felt it lacked, or to streamline/balance it further. I also have a strong distaste for meta-gaming and rules lawyering as well, so these things are proving to be really helpful in balance.

I have 13 Character Classes total, Warrior, Rogue, Sorcerer, Druid, Warlock, Acolyte(Cleric), Seeker(Bard), Hellion(Warrior + Warlock), Templar (Warrior + Acolyte), Monk (Rogue + Druid), Arcanist (Rogue + Sorcerer). With level progression only being 1-5, and designed so you can reach max level in 8-16 weeks assuming once per week play sessions. (Since it always bothered me that most of DnD's high level content was never reached unless you started at epic, or played for years). This can of course be made to be faster or slower.
Each class has about 100-150 separate abilities, all with unique functions, and designed with balance in mind so they can't be abused, yet still have niche functions which make them powerful at something specific, or fulfill diverse functions. I also incorporated themes into each style of magic making the function of the casting itself different, with different consequences for the character. It always bothered me that in most rpgs, magic was either extremely overpowered, or had like 99999 consequences yet for some stupid reason did less damage than a warrior with a sword. So I made magic either make you go crazy, or fatigue you, and also come with multiple resource management and social consequences, while keeping the damage in the same ballpark as an optimized Warrior with a huge weapon and ridiculous strength.

Another thing that I always hated in tabletop rpgs was how warriors always are just 'i attack it with my sword' on their turn, the system has no mechanics or reward for actual combat, and The Wheel Of Time novels by Robert Jordan illustrate this very well too, having the main character's swordsmanship just described as total BS poetic sounding phrases like 'boar rushes down the mountain'. So, I did extensive research on HEMA(Historical European Martial Arts), and read through translated german weapon manuscripts, etc. The result is that Warrior has nearly 20 different combat maneuvers that come standard with the class for the most part, and is able to learn even more skills based on realistic principles. To add even more depth, I thought along the lines of DnD's 'Marshal' class, although looking through that didn't provide much help, but the concept as a whole of the Battlefield Commander archetype was really useful. Finally I mixed in the 'Berserker' archetype as well, to round it out even further.
I did the same with Rogues but instead looked up all sorts of ancient technology and principles of warfare, and used a bunch of 'fighting dirty' tropes and literary concepts, and applied them to a mold based on 'what could medievel MacGuyver do?'. I also mixed the Ranger into Rogue, as well as other 'Hunter' or 'Trapper' Archetypes, since Rangers are lacking substance as a class compared to many others in games.

I'm pretty proud of my 'Bard' too, not only are there entire skill trees based around essentially every form of creative expression, including circus and street performers, but all the music and literary abilities are actually named after and based on real words/concepts from music and stagecraft. I even went deep, tying the explanation for the multiverse to the explanation for why music/sound can be used as a form of magic, with the basis of the lore involving Jewish Kabbalah, and Buddhism; it's very 'Tolkien'esque'. =P

I'm aware that too much 'Crunch' as they call it and 'realism', IE: too many system mechanics and complicated processes makes a game tedious, difficult to understand, boring, or all of the above, however I remain confident that I've executed it in a way that really sidesteps all those issues.
Hopefully, when the 'Alpha' of it is done(meaning I've finished writing everything as a rough draft), I plan on seeking advice from Adam Koebel who co-created 'Dungeon World' about his experience with a copyright lawyer, etc. Once it is copyrighted, I will no longer be afraid of play-testing it online with people as a Beta, before preparing it for marketing and release.

All that tirade being said, at this point I'm starting to get really mentally/creatively drained, so sometimes I have trouble thinking of that 'just one more ability', or how to create a specialization for some kind of magic, or I feel a class needs an extra ability or two to really give them a wealth of options. Plus it would be nice to come up with a more complete bestiary besides things from world history/culture. So I'd love to share all that.

What I can share immediately with you guys though, is I came up with like 10 pages of plot hooks and event structures, most of which just need nouns plugged into them to be ready to go. I'm big on this kind of thing since I want to run a sandbox game, since I like the freedom of such games, and I don't like the idea of railroading players. I feel that it makes things more interesting for them as well as for the GM if neither of us know what is going to happen. Plus, we all know GMs have to be able to improvise and think on their feet, so building a structure for this ahead of time really makes things a lot easier in the long run, even if it's a pain in the ass to develop in the first place. =D

Regitnui
2015-09-27, 08:21 AM
:dizzy:

OK, I'm just a flavour guy. My Sebrica setting is based entirely off Legend System. However, it does take the "standard fantasy setting" and snap it over its knee; six races, elemental inclinations and dark reflections. Warlike fire elves, sagely earth direrell (dog/baboon men), secretive water setasen (dolphin-esque people), vibrant air felis (cat-people), powerful angelic paladins and robotic soldiers all live together, defending their land from hostile Adverse races; Demons, Barghests, Mimics, Ogres and Harrows. Elemental gods and dragons preside over the conflict and stand apart, while the ruins of the Ancient civilization still hold technological wonders.

No especially twisted mechanics, but a unique setting.

Ajmes
2015-09-28, 05:38 PM
If you guys could redesign the cleric in dnd, what would you do differently? Can you think of any unique cleric spells that don't already exist?
Are there any themes in a cleric's magic that you feel are worth exploring other than the typical ones? Like Combat Buffs/Debuffs, Healing, Light-Based-Spells(Or things that affect Undead), Angelic Being Summoning, and Prophecy. These are the majority of pre-existing cleric spells, but I'm trying to think of things outside the norm.

Things I'm especially fond of, or always excited to see are mechanics which function outside the game, and affect the player in some way, rather than just using dice themselves. Sometimes these things can involve dice, but the main effects are not necessarily dependent on them for the most part. An example of this would be Illusions, where you have a save or dice roll to disbelieve them, but they change game-play in such a way that it isn't just 'roll this and x happens'.

Terrador
2015-09-28, 06:52 PM
If anything (assuming this is 3.5)... allowing communion with outsiders (or even deities at high level) by someone casted on could be a hell of a deal. The Cleric's Charm, if you will--it wouldn't be dispelled because the resolutions the casted-on formed while talking to this 20+ INT/CHA outsider aren't magical in any way. I'd like to see consecration/unholy effects a hair more; clerics as leaders really has so much more potential.

goto124
2015-09-28, 10:55 PM
What are clerics even supposed to be, and how are they different from (say) paladins?

How does one make a cleric sufficiently combat-worthy?

Random idea: Clerics of different gods gets different powers, thematically suited to the theme of the gods they serve.

Ajmes
2015-09-29, 12:26 AM
What are clerics even supposed to be, and how are they different from (say) paladins?

How does one make a cleric sufficiently combat-worthy?

Random idea: Clerics of different gods gets different powers, thematically suited to the theme of the gods they serve.

Btw welcome to the conversation, good input.

That's sort of what I'm going with currently. All the generic/cliche cleric type stuff I'm giving to them access to as a whole, but then specifically I'm going to come up with some spells and abilities thematically based loosely on eastern astrology(zodiac), and the whole 'divine portfolio' concept. I'm trying to set the gods up as essentially what is what happened in world history, where heroic or villainous figures achieved such greatness and notoriety, that they became the subjects of myth and legend, being spoken of often in conversation, or songs. Soldiers might wish for victory in battle so they might seek the favor of a great warrior, and eventually these figures became seen as Gods. Then either due to direct worship, or because their essence is now directly tied to a concept(much like in dnd with their portfolio), they become more powerful. The concept in the warhammer(or WH40K) universe is much the same.

Part of the reason I like the whole portfolio concept more than direct reverence for a god, is because how do you explain epic level clerics then? If their power comes from a god, how do they ever rise to that status themselves? I like the idea of them harnessing that energy but not having it come from the god themselves, but rather, from where the god derives their power as well. So it's sort of like, yea you might take a little bit of my power, but it's a drop in the bucket(at least until way later), and you serve my(the god's)purposes and spread my worship, then I'm alright with it. This doesn't work for dark/evil gods, but that's why I removed the whole evil cleric thing, and just made it into the warlock, since it's really just the same thing pragmatically, just a different mentality.

That distinction is something I agree with, Clerics and Paladins are very similar to begin with(at least in dnd). I plan on making Clerics light armored casters, much like the others, unless they are the hybrid class of the paladin.

What I'm wondering though, is besides what has already been discussed now, cliche cleric spells, and 'domain'/god affiliated spells specifically, can anyone think of anything outside those things, that fits the concept in some way, or even better; expands upon the concept in a new and unexpected way?

D-naras
2015-09-29, 07:31 AM
What I'm wondering though, is besides what has already been discussed now, cliche cleric spells, and 'domain'/god affiliated spells specifically, can anyone think of anything outside those things, that fits the concept in some way, or even better; expands upon the concept in a new and unexpected way?

To contribute, how about incorporating a cleric's flock in the class's gameplay? Maybe if you have N believers, you gain X power and Y spell.

What I find perplexing is the fuzzy thematic difference between DnD clerics and warlocks. When you get right down to it, they both gain their magic from elsewhere, plus, thematically they both can be ritual casters (meaning they have to perform a rite of some sort: clerics do their temply activities, warlocks sacrifice virgins etc). How have you made the 2 archetypes distinct?

Regitnui
2015-09-29, 08:16 AM
What I find perplexing is the fuzzy thematic difference between DnD clerics and warlocks. When you get right down to it, they both gain their magic from elsewhere, plus, thematically they both can be ritual casters (meaning they have to perform a rite of some sort: clerics do their temply activities, warlocks sacrifice virgins etc). How have you made the 2 archetypes distinct?

I think that was the original intention; warlocks were basically meant to be 'evil clerics' or dark clerics without being Evil clerics. In my view, clerics are given power, and warlocks take it. Say we have a god like Vecna. Vecna's clerics are Evil knowledge hoarders, in reflection of their god. If you play a cleric of Vecna, you'd have to be a secret hoarder. A warlock would steal their power from Vecna, and would therefore be able to behave how they like, because Vecna has no choice in how the power is used.

Like the Epic Destiny; a Cleric would ascend to be a lesser servitor of the god, but a Warlock would take more of the power and supplant the god.

goto124
2015-09-29, 07:05 PM
Part of the reason I like the whole portfolio concept more than direct reverence for a god, is because how do you explain epic level clerics then? If their power comes from a god, how do they ever rise to that status themselves?

Promotion, probably. Celestial bureaucracy and such :smallbiggrin:

Ajmes
2015-10-01, 07:47 PM
To contribute, how about incorporating a cleric's flock in the class's gameplay? Maybe if you have N believers, you gain X power and Y spell.

What I find perplexing is the fuzzy thematic difference between DnD clerics and warlocks. When you get right down to it, they both gain their magic from elsewhere, plus, thematically they both can be ritual casters (meaning they have to perform a rite of some sort: clerics do their temply activities, warlocks sacrifice virgins etc). How have you made the 2 archetypes distinct?

Yes, that's what I did. Clerics are gaining their powers from a connection to another realm, acting as a conduit for those energies. Since that realm is a higher plane of existence, other beings which also draw power from the same place are wise, benevolent, and understanding, so they are left alone as long as they don't misuse their power. Warlocks choose a pact to determine where their power comes from, and doing so determines flaws they have that determine game play. One of those choices is an open ended version similar to the Cleric, but since the beings that draw their power from that realm(or if the power is being taken by a powerful being directly), if they notice they aren't happy about it. So in return, the Warlock is kind of in their debt, as it just so happens that being(or beings plural) are willing to let them live so long as they serve their purposes in some way, and if not, they'll send their servants after them(since they are beneath acting directly for so lowly an inconvenience). I have each pact come with 'Taint' which is a minor flaw that is always in effect, and a major consequence that happens if they fail to uphold their pact requirement. Then I have one pact that isn't so much a pact, but it's just kind of the 'trope' of 'you were born wrong', and you're just a messed up horrible dark messiah kind of creature, and they have no pact requirement, but 2 flaws that are always in effect.
The Druid acts as a conduit for the life energies of the natural world and speaks to the forces of nature to lend them their help.
The Sorcerer uses their magical soul and force of will to alter reality.

Ajmes
2015-10-01, 07:55 PM
My focus now for thinking of new cleric abilities is to look into the miracles supposedly performed by Jesus, Moses, and Buddha. I also looked into Kabbalah for the secret names of god, to draw inspiration for such as well.

I really like the idea of gaining power from their followers, that's an interesting mechanics. To maintain balance, but to still potentially provide some sort of benefit, perhaps what I'll do is make it so if a Cleric enacts 'miracles' to help people in need, that will cause those people, and/or others who witness the things they do, to give them Mana, so it's sort of like using your spells for free in return for using them in a benevolent way. So a 'power-gamer' wouldn't be afraid of using spells for something that didn't benefit them directly, so it encourages role-playing, and then the GM can control how they are rewarded for such, maybe giving them allies in return, or having others help them in some way they are able to, whether direct assistance, or offering them food/shelter, money, information, discounts, etc.

Can anyone think of any other real world sources of anything that fits the 'holy' theme, that I can use for inspiration? Some culture I haven't thought of?
Or any other spell concepts that are unique that aren't from things we've seen in other rpgs like dnd or the like?

Definitely appreciative! =)

If you guys PM me with Skype info, I can send you some of my campaign building materials, like my plot hook list and such.
(Oh, and by 'guys' I mean that without specific gender in mind, that's just something New York people do =P)

Arcane_Snowman
2015-10-01, 09:22 PM
Sounds fun, though I can't seem to send PMs via the phone so I'll leave you with my Skype details here: mystic_snowman

Once I'm off work I'd be happy to talk about it.