Master of Throwing Knives in 5E -- how to do it at as low a level as possible?

[AstralFire]

Character is a Hill Dwarf with high Dexterity and Charisma, rest of the stats are negotiable. I'd like to be someone who throws daggers as much as possible. I'm leaning towards Monk and Rogue because they're much more mobile than the other classes, and high mobility seems like a big part of the concept.

Mara Skycleft grew up in the city, which isn't the first place one expects to find hill dwarfs. Her parents were originally both adventurers, getting ready to settle down a few years after they'd had their little bundle of joy. They started taking more careful jobs before they were ready to return to their clan back in the countryside; their last was to be a simple extermination of a giant rat infestation in the local tavern.
​
The giant rat infestation turned out to be something much, much more. There was a grand conspiracy involving necromancers and it was a very trying and troubling time, and it was the stuff adventures were made out of. Including the part where people die -- in particular, Mara's mother. Papa Skycleft lost an arm, too. And when it came out that the tavernkeep had been aware there was something more dangerous going on and hadn't said anything, well, that's when the barristers got involved.
​
​Long story short, in the end Papa Skycleft was left with a mountain of legal fees, not a lot of gold, and the deed to a slightly used tavern, guaranteed free of giant rat infestation. He did his best to raise his daughter on his own. She helped out with the tavern, mastered all the pub games, and was a constant delight to the patrons. In turn, he taught her how to defend herself and made a focus of it -- in part because as she got older, he realized she was still a constant delight to the patrons in new and sudden ways that made him uneasy. (Bawdy jokes about dwarf height vis-a-vis interaction with other races, having previously been tolerated, suddenly became grounds for revocation of one's tab privileges in the tavern.)
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​When Mara was about 25 -- solidly an adult by the reckoning of the humans which mainly populated the tavern, but still a child by the eyes of a traditional dwarf -- she grew tired of her father's overprotectiveness, and began to sign up for light work as a hired blade around town. She still stops in to help with the Skycleft Tavern now and then between jobs, but the times are becoming increasingly infrequent between dungeon delving.

Relevant houserules in play in our game:
* All races gain one feat for which they qualify at level 1.

Fighters/Battle Master
The Battle Master Fighter gains two additional superiority dice at levels 7 and 15, rather than one.

Starting at 15th level, when you roll initiative, use a Second Wind, or use an Action Surge, you regain 1 superiority die. If you already have maximum superiority die, you do not gain this benefit.

Monks
Any abilities which grant an additional attack (such as flurry of blows) work with monk weapons as well as unarmed strikes.

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Starting level is 2, so the closer to level 2 that it works, the better.

I'm currently leaning towards Open Hand Monk, with my first-level feat being in Athlete to get Dex up to 16. The DM has expressed openness in the past to homebrew, so a homebrew discipline or something for Monk or Rogue is not beyond the pale.

[PhantomRenegade]

You will need to homebrew anyway, per RAW you can only have one free object interaction per turn, the feat for dual wielding(dont recall the name) allows you to have two free object interactions per turn but if you're throwing three knives with extra attack that's still not going to be enough.

[AstralFire]

You will need to homebrew anyway, per RAW you can only have one free object interaction per turn, the feat for dual wielding(dont recall the name) allows you to have two free object interactions per turn but if you're throwing three knives with extra attack that's still not going to be enough.

I think it is, in fact, called Dual Wielder. The GM's allowing for drawing a knife as part of Flurry, so I am looking pretty locked into Monk early on, but not sure about my later path or if I'd be better off making a full Monk or Rogue discipline.

[CNagy]

It'd be a lot less hassle if your DM houseruled darts (the actual throwing knives in the game) as monk weapons. It gets past the drawing and throwing problem and lets you carry a huge number of knives as each dart is like half or one-fourth the weight of a dagger.

[Madfellow]

Character is a Hill Dwarf with high Dexterity and Charisma, rest of the stats are negotiable. I'd like to be someone who throws daggers as much as possible. I'm leaning towards Monk and Rogue because they're much more mobile than the other classes, and high mobility seems like a big part of the concept.

Relevant houserules in play in our game:
* All races gain one feat for which they qualify at level 1.

Monks
Any abilities which grant an additional attack (such as flurry of blows) work with monk weapons as well as unarmed strikes.

Starting level is 2, so the closer to level 2 that it works, the better.

I'm currently leaning towards Open Hand Monk, with my first-level feat being in Athlete to get Dex up to 16. The DM has expressed openness in the past to homebrew, so a homebrew discipline or something for Monk or Rogue is not beyond the pale.

Look, this is not like in 3.5 wherein any given character concept requires a tree of feats and prestige classes in order to get off a good combo. In 5e, most character concepts are viable from a very early level requiring little or no feats or multiclassing. Case in point: a knife wielder. If you want to be good at throwing knives in 5e, it's easy. Daggers are simple weapons with the finesse and throwing properties. Most any class or build can use them proficiently, including monks and rogues.

And if your DM is already allowing you to use Martial Arts and Flurry of Blows with monk weapons, that's great news because daggers are monk weapons. So at level 2 you're already throwing two or three knives per turn and adding your Dex mod to each damage roll. That's pretty sweet. No further homebrew, feats, multiclassing, or other theorycrafting is necessary. If you want to be good at throwing knives, then throw a lot of knives. :smallsmile:

[Madfellow]

I think it is, in fact, called Dual Wielder. The GM's allowing for drawing a knife as part of Flurry, so I am looking pretty locked into Monk early on, but not sure about my later path or if I'd be better off making a full Monk or Rogue discipline.

I wouldn't say you're locked into monk. Rogue is an equally viable option. The difference between the two is quantity vs quality of attacks. Do you want to make a lot of weak attacks, or one very powerful strike? Whichever one you choose, you should commit to though because monk and rogue have surprisingly little synergy for a multiclass build.

[Darkzekkai]

I think using darts with a rogue would be more effective. Darts are 1/4 the weight of daggers so you could carry more. And with rogue you get sneak attack damage. I really like the Unearthed Arcana: Swashbucker. I think it would work well with your high charisma. Namely, Toujours l'Audace. Let's you add Cha to initiative rolls and you can sneak attack any enemy that isn't adjacent you one of your allies.

[Darkzekkai]

Also you can get the martial adept feat for a little extra damage and maneuvers. Only some of them work with ranged attack but they are useful

[AstralFire]

Okay, thanks for the feedback, everyone. We ended up going with these changes to monks:


Martial Arts
Darts also count as a monk weapon. You can make an additional attack as a bonus action with a monk weapon instead of an unarmed strike, but you do not gain your dexterity bonus to damage when doing so. You may still make an additional attack as a bonus action with your unarmed strike and gain your dexterity bonus to damage.

Ki
Flurry of Blows
Flurry of Blows can be made with any monk weapon, not just unarmed strikes.

[steppedonad4]

Darts are already monk weapons so no need to houserule it. The monk is proficient in simple weapons which means both ranged and melee.

[Mechaviking]

Darts are already monk weapons so no need to houserule it. The monk is proficient in simple weapons which means both ranged and melee.

The dart is not a simple melee weapon and as such does not straight out of the bat qualify for the monk weapons. But it seems like a fair houserule to me :D

[steppedonad4]

The dart is not a simple melee weapon and as such does not straight out of the bat qualify for the monk weapons. But it seems like a fair houserule to me :D

The monk has proficiency in all simple weapons, otherwise it would say in the monk description that they only have access to simple melee weapons.

Or are you saying that all classes that list "Simple weapons," and "Martial weapons," are only proficient in the melee versions of them? In which case, the ranger is not proficient in the longbow, the fighter is not proficient in the heavy crossbow, and the rogue isn't proficient in shortbows.

[bid]

The monk has proficiency in all simple weapons, otherwise it would say in the monk description that they only have access to simple melee weapons.
I think you should read the Martial Arts feature. "Monk weapons" has nothing to do with proficiencies.

[CNagy]

The monk has proficiency in all simple weapons, otherwise it would say in the monk description that they only have access to simple melee weapons.

Or are you saying that all classes that list "Simple weapons," and "Martial weapons," are only proficient in the melee versions of them? In which case, the ranger is not proficient in the longbow, the fighter is not proficient in the heavy crossbow, and the rogue isn't proficient in shortbows.

Being proficient in a weapon does not make it a "monk weapon." Monk weapons refers to weapons that trigger martial arts, which are all simple melee weapons without the two-handed or heavy property, and shortswords. Darts are not normally included in that list, being ranged weapons.

[Silavor]

The monk has proficiency in all simple weapons, otherwise it would say in the monk description that they only have access to simple melee weapons.

Or are you saying that all classes that list "Simple weapons," and "Martial weapons," are only proficient in the melee versions of them? In which case, the ranger is not proficient in the longbow, the fighter is not proficient in the heavy crossbow, and the rogue isn't proficient in shortbows.

Monk Weapons are not weapons that a monk is proficient with. Monk Weapons are "shortswords and any simple melee weapons that don't have the two-handed or heavy property." Note that it says simple melee weapons, not simple weapons. Darts and shortbows are simple ranged weapons, so they are not eligible by RAW for any feature that benefits Monk Weapons.

[Malifice]

I'd just house rule 'throwing knives' to or 'shuriken' have the ammunition property.

Or maybe this is a good idea for a new feat.

By RAW, if you start with 2 knives out and have the Dual wielder feat (draw 2 more) and fast hands as a Thief (draw 2 more as a bonus action) you can peg enough daggers each round to cover yourself.

[coredump]

If you are doing daggers, you want Dual Fighter for the extra draw per turn, and you want a level of fighter for Duelist for the extra +2 damage per dagger.

I would try and work something with my DM to get a special 'quick draw dagger bandolier' that holds X number of daggers, which allows you to draw 2 per turn, or 3 per turn with the feat.

Wouldn't hurt to get a level of EK so you can bonus action a magical dagger back to you.

[AstralFire]

Mm, maybe at level 5. I think I want to stick Monk until I at least get my L4 ASI/Feat.

Question: Should I use my starting feat (houserule) on Athlete to get my Dex up to 16/+3, or on Sharpshooter so she can throw knives comfortably at full range? Both are justified by her concept. I see her as the sort of person that jumps onto a table and from there the chandelier, then rains down knives on people.

[coredump]

Knives don't benefit from Sharpshooter, they are melee weapons, not ranged weapons. Which is why duelist style still works.

The houserule helps, but I'm still not convinced Monk is the way to go...I think I would rather have the extra damage from Duelist.

[AstralFire]

Knives don't benefit from Sharpshooter, they are melee weapons, not ranged weapons. Which is why duelist style still works.

The houserule helps, but I'm still not convinced Monk is the way to go...I think I would rather have the extra damage from Duelist.

Sorry for the confusion! I'm assuming darts are equivalent to specialized throwing knives and not going with the hand dagger anymore. It's cheaper.

[Mara]

I agree with above, just reskin darts.

With that, monk or fighters throw lots of knives for good effect.

For dagger throwing I would go Thief and just throw one and duel stab during other rounds.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Warlock
Level 1

Fluff Eldritch Blast as Throwing Knives.

You'll certainly be one sharp customer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YMPAH67f4o&ab_channel=degenexo).

[JakOfAllTirades]

You will need to homebrew anyway, per RAW you can only have one free object interaction per turn, the feat for dual wielding(dont recall the name) allows you to have two free object interactions per turn but if you're throwing three knives with extra attack that's still not going to be enough.

It's worth noting that the Thief Archetype's Fast Hands feature lets you use your bonus action to take the Use an Object action, which can be used to draw an extra weapon. However, this removes the option of throwing a dagger with your bonus action.

I don't know about throwing three daggers a round, but with this feature I could manage five every two rounds.

[Psikerlord]

I play a knife throwing rogue and it works great (note we don't use the -5/+10 mechanic from GWF or SS, so everyone is closer in the damage department).