Evil roleplay help?

[TinyMushroom]

Hey, I'm making a (most likely Neutral) Evil gnome beguiler/mindbender I intend to play over a longer period of time, but I kinda don't really know where to go with the character, since my previous evil characters have been in not super RP heavy campaigns so they were either "in name only" or just straight up murderhobo. This time, I want an evil character with a little more depth to them, and I was wondering if you guys might be able to offer some tips about fleshing out the personality/general roleplay.

Since most of my magic lies within illusions and mind control, maybe it's that she's not afraid to step over people's free wills to get what she wants rather than explicitly wanting to make people suffer? Would that be a step in the right direction? I also think she might not be averse to making deals with evil outsiders, who tend to occasionally wander around in our session. She's probably mostly pacifist/diplomatic and against killing unless someone really got in her way, in which case she also would try to make other people do her dirty work.

I'm kinda stumped on a real character goal for her too. Dominate The World/Money, Dear Boy feels a bit uncreative and lame for an evil character. She worships the evil goddess Shar (we're not in forgotten realms but the dm allows us to really plug any content into his world), so maybe something with that could be done? Like, wanting to bring down an opposing church or something?

Thanks

[Harbinger]

Maybe influence/domination over a specific group of people. Perhaps she believes that the suffering in the world could be prevented if she were only in control, or maybe she just wants to puppeteer others because she wants companionship without having to actually make the effort to consider their needs and wishes. Maybe she has a complex of some kind because she had a very controlling and abusive mother/father/spouse and doesn't know how to interact beyond controlling and being controlled. Maybe she's just a hedonist and is after interesting experiences without a care as to how it would make others feel.

What's the rest of the party like?

[TheThan]

Ok I was totally thinking about this today.
So here’s my advice:
When one creates an evil character, you need to come up with three primary things:

1: why is this character evil- what is the driving force behind this character, why does he do the evil things he does. Think about it, people in reality don’t do bad things for no real reason, even if that reason is really stupid, simple or bad, they still have it. figure out why people do terrible things to other people, and then use that for your motivation.

2: what is your character’s long term plans. What does he want to do with his life? Does he have any ambition? did something happen to him to make him turn his back on basic humanoid morality? Try to make this specific. A really common evil character motivation is “get moar power” that’s not good enough, Power is a tool to accomplish things, what does he want to accomplish. Does he want to get his revengance? Does he want to become king by his own hand? Does he want to destroy the earth? (if so why does he want to destroy the earth?). Is he serving a greater master and actually doesn't know what the end game is?

3: how is your character evil? What sort of deeds is your character comfortable with committing? Is he fine with murder but not ok with associating with demons or the undead? Is he a liar, a cheat? How far will he go to get what he wants?


Last evil character i made was a sorceress that was the lost heir to a kingdom. She wanted to claim her rightful place on the throne and get her revengance on those who tried to dispose of her. She wasn't afraid to use anyone and anything to get what she wanted. I made her chaotic evil, but not gibbering insane chaotic evil. She had a very mercenary outlook, not interested in other peoples' affairs unless it brought her closer to her goals, so if she did something she expected something out of it, payment for instance. She also had a problem with authority, so when people would tell her that she couldn't do something she met them with "oh watch me!" sort of attitude. Well ok she had a problem with other people's authority, she was perfectly ok with having authority.

[Bad Wolf]

Someone should summon Red Fel.

Red Fel.

Red Fel.

RED FEL!

[Nifft]

Beguiler Gnome sounds like a really good intro for the Shadowcraft Mage PrC, and if you've got a patron deity you might want to look for one which offers the Luck domain, so you can shadow-cast 100% real Miracle spells.

One NE deity who grants Luck from FR would be Mask. I'm sure there are other matching deities, if you're allowed to plunder other settings.

[veti]

Someone should summon Red Fel.

Red Fel.

Red Fel.

RED FEL!

You need to stare into a mirror while you type that.

[Kane0]

What kind of advice were you looking for? General guidelines, a list of rules, personality concepts?

My contribution:
- Have a separate set of rules for friends/family. These people you make a point of not mind-controlling, due to respect or some other reason. This translates to no PvP, and allows you to mindscrew NPCs much more freely with your party comfortable that you won't do the same to them.
- Have positive characteristics to balance out your evil tendencies. Being polite is a great start, and dovetails nicely into charms. It also gives you personality beyond the moustache twirling cartoon villain level. Being reasonable means your party will be less likely to react badly to the fact that you are evil, and allow you some wiggle room for your evil activities. Being shrewd enough to drop a sore point or concede to a party members objection means you get to live and be evil another day, in your own time and location.
- Have human motivations and flaws. For example, perhaps you simply believe you know what is best (like a parent dealing with a young child) and are not above using compulsions to show them that you are correct. Casually disregard the notion that you are doing the wrong thing or doing it the wrong way. A little hubris brings a character like this to life.
- Have some mystery. What you do in private is surely evil, but what exactly that is cannot be easily found out. For those going to a lot of effort to uncover your misdeeds, they may find something harmless yet horrid like you practicing your mind controlling powers by making birds or rodents chew off their own limbs or something.

[Bad Wolf]

You need to stare into a mirror while you type that.

I can see my reflection in my phone. Does that count?

[Terrador]

Evil that isn't murderhobo should have relationships. People they respect, like, treat well, and/or form meaningful bonds with. Who is this for your character? Who will this character respect, deal honestly with, have a drink with? Most people, even misanthropic people, want to be liked and have positive social interactions, at least sometimes. There are lots of things to flesh out, but this bit alone will make a character seem much less mindlessly evil. It doesn't fit every evil character, but it sure fits most.

[goto124]

I can see my reflection in my phone. Does that count?

I realised that you probably meant the screen of your smartphone...

Kids these days, get off my lawn, etc.

[Kane0]

Extra: Have them toy mercilessly with their thrall, and only the thrall. Make the thrall someone that seems at least somewhat deserving of this treatment, but kick it up to the 10th degree. All others they are perfectly civil with, but the thrall enjoys a hell of the mindbender's design.

[Red Fel]

Someone should summon Red Fel.

Red Fel.

Red Fel.

RED FEL!


You need to stare into a mirror while you type that.

No, you don't.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/5e/96/75/5e96752819458c2e5a439f36631f94fa.gif

Hello, friend.

First off, Evil is a very nuanced and complex alignment that can be played in all sorts of fascinating directions. As the duly self-appointed representative of said alignment, welcome to the deep end of the spectrum.

Now, that said, one of the easiest concepts of Evil for a novice to wrap a brain or two around is the idea of "Power." It's a concept anyone can appreciate. This kind of Evil isn't "Evil for Evil's sake," it's "I do whatever I can do acquire power." That's, frankly, quite reasonable.

So let's talk character. You have an Evil Gnome illusionist/shadowmancer/etc. That's actually pretty easy to get behind. One of the simplest cliches is to start with a Napoleon complex - your character is tired of being belittled (pun intended) and overlooked (same). When she learned that she had a knack for crafting complex and convincing illusions, she had a choice - become an entertainer, or become a monster. She was tired of being laughed at, so she chose the latter. Now, rather than forcing people to see her (perhaps her history being overlooked has made her awfully self-conscious), she forces them to see what she chooses. She enjoys the benefits of life, by bending others to her will. Now, those who ignored her bow to her, those who mocked her fear her.

It's a cliche, and very simplistic. But it's a simple enough concept with which to start, and you can easily expand or modify it from there. More importantly, it makes her compelling, not merely two-dimensional, and it doesn't preclude her from being a team player. Someone tired of being overlooked and ignored can actually make a fiercely loyal party member, if for no other reason than that she's never had true friends she could trust before.

I'll gladly expand on these ideas with you, or go in new directions, if something catches your eye. Again, welcome to the deep end of the alignment pool, pal. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0645.html) :smallwink:

[Segev]

Another thing to consider is that evil need not be grand. It can be petty.

I don't mean "evil for the lols." I mean that evil can be the alignment of those who simply don't care who has to pay for what they want, as long as it isn't them.

The gnome illusionist can be a scam artist, confidence woman, and gleefully use her magic to get other people to "willingly" give her whatever she wants. Seeking luxury? Have the merchant just gift you that fine stole, or the innkeeper invite you to use his personal rooms that night. Want lacivious pleasures? Use illusions to make yourself into whatever you think is most desirable, or simply use enchantments to make you what your target(s) most desire(s). Crave praise? Perform illusory feats that people think are real, or charm them into loving you.

You're evil; the only thing you care about is avoiding getting in trouble.

Again, though, be a team player. Loyal friends and allies you don't have to waste spells on to keep around are valuable. Let them in on the fun. Charm that hot barmaid the rogue's pining after and give her to him. Or, if that's too unsubtle for you (and, as an illusionist, you doubtless have an appreciation for subtlety!), make yourself look like him and then charm her. With a cooperative DM, she'll think she's in love with him after you ditch the illusion while out of her sight.

Getting free stuff? Get gifts for your friends. And, of course, you're the source of the simple and pragmatic solution around obstructive guards and bureaucrats: you ask nicely, and they magically lace the red tape into a carpet for you and your pals to parade down.

[Red Fel]

Another thing to consider is that evil need not be grand. It can be petty.

So much this. Not every Evil is about taking over the world. Or even the kingdom. Or even the town. It just means that you're ruthless in pursuing what you want, frequently (and readily) at the expense of others. Evil isn't just the usurper. Look at the cat burglar who just wants to live in lavish comfort, and steals to support her excessive lifestyle. Look at the social climber who just wants to be the most important guy in any room, and manipulates and kills people around him to ensure that he is envied and admired. There are less grandiose aspirations that can still let you qualify for your Evil membership card.


Again, though, be a team player. Loyal friends and allies you don't have to waste spells on to keep around are valuable. Let them in on the fun. Charm that hot barmaid the rogue's pining after and give her to him. Or, if that's too unsubtle for you (and, as an illusionist, you doubtless have an appreciation for subtlety!), make yourself look like him and then charm her. With a cooperative DM, she'll think she's in love with him after you ditch the illusion while out of her sight.

Getting free stuff? Get gifts for your friends. And, of course, you're the source of the simple and pragmatic solution around obstructive guards and bureaucrats: you ask nicely, and they magically lace the red tape into a carpet for you and your pals to parade down.

And this too. Evil is a mindset - it's how you see the world. You have the power to acquire what you want. You have the ability to make people love you, and people who love you want to give things to you; what's wrong with that? You have the ability to make people fear you, and people who fear you stay out of your way; what's wrong with that? Nobody's being hurt, right?

And that mindset carries over to your friends. Just as you have the ability to gratify your desires in an immediate manner, it stands to reason that if you want your friends to be happy, you should gratify their desires as well. Help them make new friends. Teach their enemies new definitions of fear and horror. Do things that a Good character wouldn't do, for the benefit of said Good character, because you're helping.

Now, I don't mean to do things in a horrible, twisted, psychopathic Monkey's Paw kind of way. I mean genuinely helpful things that are simply morally questionable at best. Don't regale them with stories of how you mutilated their childhood nemesis after serving him his own parents for supper, for example, but point out that the fellow who's been stalking them for the past week had a horrible nightmare and would probably leave them alone from now on. Little things, helpful things.

And remember, your PC is an illusionist. So you can justify pretty much anything with "Nobody was actually hurt, right?" And I do mean anything.

[Segev]

Ah, yes, as Red Fel illustrated, be helpful in ways that the more morally-aligned party members would not be. Think of it as simply having talents they do not, and using them to help your friends.

You understand that your friend in shining armor won't lie. It's frustrating, at times, but hey, who are you to judge? However, if you see somebody willing to take advantage of this, help. Make an illusion of your friend to talk to that jerk who'd take advantage of him, and lie through that illusion's teeth. Or frame that cad who is trying to blackmail the party for a crime you committed just to get him in trouble. That rare material component the cleric needs to cure your rogue friend of the curse placed on him by the necromancer you guys just defeated? The one that sanctimonious druid is forbidding you to gather because he feels it would desecrate his grove, and your friends are desperately trying to figure out how to convince him to hand over?

Steal it. Send a pack of real or illusory hobgoblins through and trash the whole thing (using your own magic if you must), and just make sure you recover that ingredient. Claim you bought it off the hobgoblins after the fact. What? The damage was already done, so why let the friendly rogue suffer over a few measly gold pieces. (Speaking of which, only accept "reimbursement" for the gold pieces if the party insists; otherwise, it was a favor. After all, you'll get similar favors and generosity out of your friends in the future if you haven't already.)

Use mind control on the less-than-honorable village chief who won't pay the agreed-upon wages for your party's services in order to get him to give it over, after all. If you can manage to make it believable, make him give you still more in gratitude.


All in all, familiarize yourself with the trope "poisonous friend (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PoisonousFriend)." You don't have to play it creepy. You can play it just as "the pragmatic one." Your moral compass is just as noble as anybody else's when it comes to your friends, but everybody else is an object for you to use. Or, if they make you angry (even if - or especially if - it's because of how they hurt your friends), dangerous animals to be put down and used as object lessons.

Be aware of your party's preferences; don't do this where they would have to be pained knowing it's been done for their sake. You're being generous by taking on problems they are emotionally unable to handle. Pride yourself on your subtle touch when you can make it seem that the problem has taken care of itself and everybody's happy with it.

In fact, make sure they ARE happy with it. Even if you have to quietly bend their minds until they like it. After all, they were in the wrong for NOT liking it. Now nobody is suffering and everybody's happy. And if anybody is suffering, you made sure it was the RIGHT people, and that your friends don't have to know about it if it would upset them.

[Amphetryon]

Both Good and Evil tend to look out for Number One. They just reckon by a different starting point when counting.

[TinyMushroom]

Thank you SO much for all the inspiration, guys! I really wanted a character that doesn't have to eat babies or destroy/conquer the world to be evil and knows how to work together with people, and you guys delivered!

The rest of the party is neutral, so I won't have a pesky paladin whose back I have to scheme behind :smalltongue:.

I also gotta say I really do like this character angle of actually being a pretty helpful person (and if they don't like it she'll even help them like it), to the degree where the party members are kinda stuck between on one hand she's clearly evil but darn if someone who makes merchants give us discounts and sweet-talks our way into high-ranking people's offices isn't just too useful to throw out.

I'd love to say more, but I'm in my exam week right now so I need my time. I might say some more things later, just letting you know your advice did not disappoint.

[goto124]

I like the idea of the team player who's helpful because she's evil.

Come to think of it, I tend to have sociopathic (if that's the right word) attitudes towards NPCs... that's normal for PCs right? I back off only if it's Stupid Evil such as genocide and baby-eating, more because it's stupid and impractical, and sometimes because it's so evil it squicks out my RL self. Other than that, all bets are off.

If I'm creative enough. I have yet to encounter any opportunities to be evil. Probably because I play in the FFRP section of these forums, so I interact with far more PCs than NPCs. Or that the people I play with deliberately avoid such situations to allow me to play good characters. Or that a lot of RP is just 'random chatting with random PCs' - so far, my PCs have (other than random chatting) killed a few monsters to get rewarded (there were no reasons for collateral damage or such), and gone to an island that runs on video game logic (I was the GM who had to cater to players not wanting their PCs to do evil). And dating (getting into evil in romantic relationships is something I really do not want to delve into).

The most evil thing was the one time my PC to lie to and trick my own NPC, and that was more due to some really weird combination of IC and OOC considerations (it was on the video-game-logic island, if that helps explain anything).

I did have a player's PC inflict grevious physical and mental harm on my NPCs though, and rather enjoyed how sadistic it was :smallamused: