Lost Mine Of Phandelver

[Officer Joy]

I bought the Lost Mine Of Phandelver box. And will be DMing it maybe even this Friday.

But I'm pretty low on players. Because we lost another player (this one has been having a hard time getting free)
We've been asking around, but can't really find new players.

Because as we are still pretty new I don't think it would be that conductive to rolplaying by letting them play with 2 characters each.
And running around with a DMPC seems like a bad idea for the first game I DM

Could I just let my players start at a higher LV. And which would be balanced?

Thanks

[Mjolnirbear]

We're mostly three-manning it.

I won't lie. It's hard. Made harder in that my paladin is not built as a tank, and our only heals is a bard who is really not that good at playing a caster.

But we get lots of xp. The DM mitigated the worst swinginess by taking average numbers instead of rolling. I'm certain he's fudged rolls so as not to kill us off. It's challenging, but still fun.

If you have three players you can do it. Put away the dice that seem to roll nothing but crits. Be prepared to decide your crits are hits, or your hits are misses (but don't let them know, it feels less heroic if you think the DM is babying you).

Be generous with Inspiration, and learn the Cover rules back to front. It complicates the game but it's free AC. Remind them that one guy, the tank, can stand in the doorway Dodging while his allies can shoot or cast spells over his shoulder.

Have at least one big strong character to Shove or Grapple, which makes fights much much easier.

And if none of this works, you can weaken the fight (take out some of the bad guys so they are not mobbed) or make the characters stronger (let the have more points in a point buy; or roll 4d6 6 times, do that three times, and choose the best series; or let the characters get one extra feat)

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

How many players do you have?
If just 2, I'd say have them play 2 characters over higher level characters as they'd get swamped by the action economy with so few PCs.
If 3, then the adventure is doable as written if the players are smart/careful, though starting at lvl 2 would help with early survivability.

[Officer Joy]

It looks like it will just be 2 players.
(I thought I mentioned it but it must have gotten lost in formatting.)

So even if I let them start at LV 2 I should still lower the number of enemies?

[Shining Wrath]

LMoP is tough. Running it with my daughter, each of us running two characters, and the first non-goblin we fought (the bugbear boss) one-shotted my cleric into oblivion with his first swing. Critical hit, 24 HP damage, overwhelming damage, bye-bye cleric.

If you start at level 2 you'll still have to fudge die rolls to keep the party alive; action economy will kill you.

Maybe give each PC a pet, such as a dog or a wolf, and start them at level 2.

[JAL_1138]

It looks like it will just be 2 players.
(I thought I mentioned it but it must have gotten lost in formatting.)

So even if I let them start at LV 2 I should still lower the number of enemies?

Yes. Numbers are deadly in 5e. One strong opponent is generally less of a threat than, say, four weak ones.

I really like an earlier poster's suggestion of letting players run extra characters--you could maybe have them be men-at-arms or caravan guards, not necessarily as fleshed-out as the players' main characters.

EDIT: Shadow Monk'd. I like Shining Wrath's suggestion of a dog (maybe wolf stats) over a man-at-arms.

[MrStabby]

I think a combination of the above could work.

Start at level 2, extra experience as split between fewer people will mean quicker leveling up (you can give rerolls to hitpoints at leveling up if you want).

Add a couple of extra side quests for slight increases in XP and loot.

Use average values for damage rather than rolling.

Give additional clues as to what is ahead to let players prepare. Allow more rests.

Make DC checks for stealth easier so there are more surprise rounds for the party.

Tell them it will be hard.

[Officer Joy]

What if I let my players be superhumans and let them roll inisiate twice. And let them take actions on both?

They aren't in favor of Rolplaying 2 characters.

EDIT: That will probably hurt Casters more than it helps.


I think a combination of the above could work.

Start at level 2, extra experience as split between fewer people will mean quicker leveling up (you can give rerolls to hitpoints at leveling up if you want).

Add a couple of extra side quests for slight increases in XP and loot.

Use average values for damage rather than rolling.

Give additional clues as to what is ahead to let players prepare. Allow more rests.

Make DC checks for stealth easier so there are more surprise rounds for the party.

Tell them it will be hard.
I'll probabaly just do this, and give them a pet wolf.

[MrStabby]

I don't know if people will want to keep the same characters and adventure further. If they do then a system/adjustments that wont harm things longer term might be valuable

[Officer Joy]

I don't know if people will want to keep the same characters and adventure further. If they do then a system/adjustments that wont harm things longer term might be valuable

Good point.

[Officer Joy]

Darn, my brother feels 2 players isn't enough.

Not enough different opinions to make the game fun. I guess we'll just skip fridays till we find a new player (or 2)

[Theodoxus]

Depends what the characters are. The bugbear that squished the cleric above, did the same crit to my player playing a raging barbarian. He just laughed at the 12 points (it still really hurt, but he had a decent con).

You could always have the dwarves outfit the players. If you've got a tanky person, fighter or heavy armor cleric, perhaps a suit of armor and a big weapon. Make it on loan, so they'll have to pay for it eventually - but I'm sure the NPCs would appreciate the small party actually arriving alive, even if it breaks starting wealth rules.

I've actually been trying to winnow down my group of 6 to 3; but it's online and 3 of the players are highly annoying (1 dropped for RL issues, but the other 2 are still around, paying 1/8 attention to the game and 7/8 attention to themselves playing kissyface.)

To compensate, I've tossed more one shot magic items (oils and potions, mostly) - though the players are hesitant to use them, even though I've been quite generous (and plan to remain so).


OTOH, I think trying to play through LMoP as a stealth team would be pretty fun. Sneaking past the goblins, infiltrating their cave and castle; sneaking into the brigands hideout - basically turning the game into a TTRPG of Thief or Assassin's Creed... Lots of dex based stealth type character concepts abound to make it work. And I'd definitely feel that less is more for that style of play.

[Shining Wrath]

Depends what the characters are. The bugbear that squished the cleric above, did the same crit to my player playing a raging barbarian. He just laughed at the 12 points (it still really hurt, but he had a decent con).

You could always have the dwarves outfit the players. If you've got a tanky person, fighter or heavy armor cleric, perhaps a suit of armor and a big weapon. Make it on loan, so they'll have to pay for it eventually - but I'm sure the NPCs would appreciate the small party actually arriving alive, even if it breaks starting wealth rules.

I've actually been trying to winnow down my group of 6 to 3; but it's online and 3 of the players are highly annoying (1 dropped for RL issues, but the other 2 are still around, paying 1/8 attention to the game and 7/8 attention to themselves playing kissyface.)

To compensate, I've tossed more one shot magic items (oils and potions, mostly) - though the players are hesitant to use them, even though I've been quite generous (and plan to remain so).


OTOH, I think trying to play through LMoP as a stealth team would be pretty fun. Sneaking past the goblins, infiltrating their cave and castle; sneaking into the brigands hideout - basically turning the game into a TTRPG of Thief or Assassin's Creed... Lots of dex based stealth type character concepts abound to make it work. And I'd definitely feel that less is more for that style of play.

Yes, exactly one class in 5e takes a 24 point hit and lives to tell about it: a barbarian, if raging at the time.

I think your suggestion about gear is another knob available to the OP (although it seems he's going to wait for more bodies). Better armor, some healing potions, maybe alchemical fires, and so on.

[Alerad]

Hi!

It depends on your playstyle. If your players favor many battles and go straight to the enemy is going to be tough.

We played part of LMoP with my group. When they were about to raid the hideout I expected all five people to show up. Only two did. I had prepared a priest NPC to aid them but roleplay-wise it didn't seem as a solid choice. Anyway, I had my two players (Evoker and Battle master) solo the dungeon and it was awesome!

That said, they didn't clear the entire hideout and didn't fight the Nothic. They captured one bandit and convinced him to lead them in.

LMoP offers many many options to make PCs lives easier, if they are careful. Be generous with the role play, NPCs and info and two people can do it. I always use fixed damage for enemies to prevent unaccounted numbers and it works just fine. Add a lot of helpful NPCs and they should be fine.

[Kane0]

Start at level 2, with some gear and/or hirelings (simple lvl 1 stat cards). Give them a better than average array like 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10 and maybe a feat at level 1 if you want.
Keep the hirelings (1 per character) 1 level below the players, giving them only the most basic abilities (SA for a rogue type, rage for a bruiser type, etc).

Optionally also let them use inspiration for an extra action/turn in combat when they choose, since they are behind in the action economy.

[Dizlag]

I have run this adventure a few times and have seen some pretty good suggestions in this thread already.

Since your players don't want to play a second character, you'll need to either tone down the encounters or buff up the characters. What characters are they thinking about playing?

You could have them roll their stats and have them roll 3 sets each, then have them take the best set. This would give them a possible awesome array of stats ... "superhero-like".

I really like the two actions a round idea. You might not have to tone down encounters if you have them act twice a round. Have them roll initiative, then act a second time on their initiative - 10. On second thought, it might just be a matter of hit points ... or lack their of. You could just give them the Tough feat for free at character creation for +2 HPs per level. Hmmm.

Toss 4 goblins at them in the first encounter and see how it goes, splitting them up into two initiative groups. Meaning, roll initiative for two goblins (one archer and one melee warrior type) on the left side of the road and then a second initiative slot for two goblins (again, one archer and one melee warrior type) on the right side of road. This gives them a chance to act before one of the groups.

Keep in mind, it is perfectly ok to play a DM PC ... especially your first time as a DM. It will create a sense of comradery (sp?) between you and your players and not the "us vs. the DM" atmosphere. Only thing you'll need to keep in mind while playing a DM PC is "player knowledge" vs. "character knowledge" or in this case "DM knowledge" vs. "character knowledge". Play it true and you'll be amazed at how much fun it will be. Let them create the characters they want to play and create a DM PC to fill a role. If they don't have a healer, make a priest. If they don't have an armored up fightery type, make a tank. I wouldn't fill in a "scout" role with a DM PC because of the die rolling you'll be doing while sneaking and perceiving the area. Just double up on a meat-shield or healer / warpriest if need be.

I'm excited for you and look forward to hearing how it goes!

Good luck!

Dizlag

[Officer Joy]

For now it's not going. One of my players "refuses" to play with just 2. Not enough different oppinions to make it fun is what he says. So now he's looking for more players. But I haven't heard anything yet. So no game this friday yet. Gives me more time to make paper miniatures.