Best thing to do for a vengence pally at lvl 4

[Sephin]

Hey all its my first real go at d&d and my pally is about to hit level 4 and i am unsure if i should grab a feat or bump my stats.

My stats are st:18 con:14 cha:16 dex:13 wis:12 int:11

And my party consists of a eagle totem bard, ranger and sorceress. I weild a 2 handed maul.

[Lollerabe]

Def dont go for the stat bump, your stats are amazing.

Great weapon master is the obvious choice IMO, extra attack as a bonus action whenever you kill and or crit, is fantastic value for a paladin since you cap out at 2 attacks.

The -5/+10 is also awesome when you got advantage or other to hit buffs such as bless.

Inspiring leader can also be super value for your party, I guess you meant eagle barb?

Anyway i'd say either GWM, Inspiring leader or - if you really wanna go stats, a bump to str.

EDIT: Your barb went eagle? Damn, as a paladin you would LOVE that wolf totem ^^

[DireSickFish]

Getting your Strength and Charisma to 20 are very helpful to a paladin but aren't necessary like they are for some classes. If you find a Feat that you like then you can go ahead and take it without worrying about making your character ineffective. You already have enough Strength and Charisma to make yourself effective at later levels.

[Sephin]

I read that great weapon wasn't that great when you boiled it down for paladins because less hits ment less opertunites to smite, i was considering mage slayer just for the ability to harrass magic users effectively. And yea wolf would have been nice but for his character they renamed eagle to the bunny totem cause his guy really really digs rabbits

[coredump]

GWM is still good, but less so with Hunter's Mark and IDS once you get to 11th.

Res (Con) is really nice for keeping up your Hunter's Mark or Haste going. You can wait until 8th for Res(Con), but that means you want to take a stat bump now.

[Lollerabe]

Well less effective compared to fighther maybe, BUT as an OOV paladin you're channel allows you to get advantage on BBEG/whatever big encounter dude per short rest.

Besides that as I mentioned, extra attacks after crits and or knockouts just add alot for you.

With advantage from channel you increase your crit chance to almost 10% and when you crit you trigger another hit, pretty sweet synergy seeing as paladin's love to crit.

You're high strength score also offsets the - 5 part a bit, besides the -5/+10 is optional if you're fighting a large or larger creature it might be worth it on every hit, since they tend to have low ac - if not then use it when you got advantage or buffs going. The rest of the feat is passive.

Tbh since your barb went eagle I can't imagine casters being the biggest problem, a raging barb that can dash as a bonus action? Yup that ought to keep the caster in check.

Edit - yup res (con) is also an option but since your con score is 14 it's less attractive IMO and.. It's super boring. I guess you could go +1 con +1 dex with 1 bump and then take ress con or vice versa, if you are a fan of even scores. But unlike most classes you are actually pretty decent at saves you aren't proficient with, due to your aura at lvl 6 plus your great charisma score.

[Sephin]

I'm also curious at what level it would be smart to multiclass into warlock if that is the route i choose?

[DireSickFish]

At level 6 or 7.

You really want 5 levels of Paladin to get that second attack, it really keeps you competitive while you're taking other class levels. I have a hard time passing up the Paladins level 6 feature however as the bonus to saves is huge and makes you very tanky and a boon to allies.

[Sephin]

So a couple levels in warlock from 7-9 is worth pushing aura of vitality off untill 11? We don't really have a healer in our party

[DireSickFish]

So a couple levels in warlock from 7-9 is worth pushing aura of vitality off untill 11? We don't really have a healer in our party

Personally I'd rather be straight pally but you do get a nice ranged weapon with eldrich blasts. You can also use the warlock spell slots to smite, which is nice. You're gaining versatility for a delay in raw damage (in pushing back your level 11 paladin feature). It's not a bad trade off so if you like the look go for it, but it's not more powerful either.

With the way hit die work this edition and how cheap healing potions are you don't really need a dedicated healer. Lay on hands to bring people up for 1 point should be more than enough.

[Sephin]

My dm refuses to give us healing potions or any form of magic item, and i was looking at how if you take three levels it doubles your amount of attacks so 4 attacks by third lvl in warlock

[JNAProductions]

How are you getting four attacks from three levels in Warlock?

[DireSickFish]

My dm refuses to give us healing potions or any form of magic item, and i was looking at how if you take three levels it doubles your amount of attacks so 4 attacks by third lvl in warlock

Not sure what you're looking at. There are no warlock abilities to double attacks. They have an ability that lets them make another attack but you need to be level 5 or 6 warlock and I can't recall if it stacks with the normal extra attack or not.

[Citan]

Hey all its my first real go at d&d and my pally is about to hit level 4 and i am unsure if i should grab a feat or bump my stats.

My stats are st:18 con:14 cha:16 dex:13 wis:12 int:11

And my party consists of a eagle totem bard, ranger and sorceress. I weild a 2 handed maul.
Hi Sephin!

Considering how good your stats already are, unless you really feel you miss very often (I'd be surprised), feel free to take a Feat first, many good choices here. :)
GWM is indeed a bit annoying, but if you have someone (or yourself) able to buff you on a standard basis, it's worthwhile.

Otherwise Mage Slayer is also a very good choice indeed.

I'm also curious at what level it would be smart to multiclass into warlock if that is the route i choose?
I guess you'd want it for cantrips and a few spells?
Not until level 6 Pally I'd say: you'll get extra attack, very good spells (hold person, misty step) and the great Aura (even "only" +3 to all saves is already a great deal).
It also depends what you want to do with your Warlock dip and how much you're expected to grow during your campaign.

If the probable cap is lvl 10, then take dip after Pally 6 max, maybe Pally 5. Otherwise you won't have time to enjoy it.

Otherwise, mechanically a 2-level dip should be made "as late as possible" since it's basically only for Eldricht Blast.
For a 3-level dip (Pact), mechanically the best would be after at least Pally 8 or 9 but may be too late for you, in which case after 6 is fine. As long as you have fun (you won't be a drag for the party but you may feel less contributing until you hit the 3rd level)...

[Sephin]

Thanks for the advice, as for how i would get the use of the blade pact multi my dm allows us to multiclass in a way that doesn't hanper our main class growth(for me it would be my good giving me my warlock traits as an alterence to my paladines abilities so i stay on the paladine path but trade in some of there abilites for the warlocks) thus a three level dip would give me all the benifits for those abilities as if i was a none mc'd warlock.

[Pex]

Increase CH to 18. It boosts your spell DC for Bane. You'll like it at level 5 for Hold Person. The main reason to do it is level 6 for +4 to all saving throws. Level 8 is a good time to think about a feat.

[JNAProductions]

Thirsting Blade and Extra Attack do not stack.

[DireSickFish]

Thirsting Blade and Extra Attack do not stack.

Yeah a Paladin and/or a Warlock should only ever be able to generate 2 attacks per round as a standard action. You can get 3 with haste and another as a bonus action if you are using pole-arm master or dual wielding.

If your DM has special multiclassing rules it is best to spell them out so that it's easier to recommend dipping or not.

[Citan]

Yeah a Paladin and/or a Warlock should only ever be able to generate 2 attacks per round as a standard action. You can get 3 with haste and another as a bonus action if you are using pole-arm master or dual wielding.

If your DM has special multiclassing rules it is best to spell them out so that it's easier to recommend dipping or not.
Agreed. Also, I'm interested as a player and as a DM on how (s)he made the houserules to allow "restriction-less" multiclassing while avoiding pure OPness ?

[Sephin]

Well if i decide to mc into warlock at say lvl 6 i would be giving up my level 6 paladin abilities for level 1 warlock abilities....giving up higher level abilites for lower level abilities doesn't break the characters i was told, she only asks that we rp it and make it part of the story(she seems to prefer rp to actual action in our game)

[Kabooki]

I know you are currently using the maul, but have you considered using a reach weapon with Polearm Mastery? Having an attack as a bonus action gives you tremendous versatility. At level 5, you will have 3 total attacks. This, on top of oppertunity attacks when creatures come adjacent. Get in there!

Just wanted to give you another option.

Also, Paladin 7 gives OoV a half move after an OA without provoking. Unfortunately you would have to delay warlock a little longer.

[coredump]

Well if i decide to mc into warlock at say lvl 6 i would be giving up my level 6 paladin abilities for level 1 warlock abilities....giving up higher level abilites for lower level abilities doesn't break the characters i was told, she only asks that we rp it and make it part of the story(she seems to prefer rp to actual action in our game)

Um.... okay then.



This is a very interesting house rule. Pretty broken in some respects, but intriguing in others.

I would probably stay straight Paly... but if you want to MC, I would grab a level at 7th, and another at 9 or 10.

[Malifice]

Take GWM.

The bonus action attack on a crit or kill is priceless. You should be (in effect) gaining an extra attack every 2 rounds or so.

The -5/+10 is just gravy (and you can take full advantage of it with advantage to attacks 1 munute a day from vengance pally).

Sentienel is also fluffy and potent.

[Sephin]

I really appreciate all the help, i am really begining to see the advantage of gwm as we just had a ton of gobos thrown at us and the ability to generate extra attacks would have been astounding. The main reason i am thinking of mcing is the eld blast because i am such garbage at range.