Trapped Under Ice-Geddy2112's Guide to the Pathfinder Winter Witch

[Geddy2112]

Hi Playground,

I have been building a Winter Witch, but in building one I have noticed a lack of a guide online. So I decided to create my own.

It can be found here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wmoteATkSek-2S3Touag_jOe32O69sYTWNy9tnTi3bM/edit?usp=sharing)

Cheers, jeers, criticism, pointers, etc. are welcome!

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Looks good! I have a PFS Winter Witch that is doing pretty well, even though I unwisely took the Winter patron. I would mention that if one is going for a touch spell build, Prehensile Hair is a great hex that can help out a lot.

[Geddy2112]

Looks good! I have a PFS Winter Witch that is doing pretty well, even though I unwisely took the Winter patron. I would mention that if one is going for a touch spell build, Prehensile Hair is a great hex that can help out a lot.

Thanks for the feedback! Excellent point about prehensile hair; it provides safe reach and good accuracy for touch spells.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Plus you're punching people with your hair/mustache. Also, I believe cats are mentioned under the cold-weather familiars; if you combo it with a trait to make stealth a class skill (like Highlander), you can get a nice stealth boost going. I think my tiefling winter witch had a higher stealth modifier than a lot of rogues at level one...

[Geddy2112]

Plus you're punching people with your hair/mustache. Also, I believe cats are mentioned under the cold-weather familiars; if you combo it with a trait to make stealth a class skill (like Highlander), you can get a nice stealth boost going. I think my tiefling winter witch had a higher stealth modifier than a lot of rogues at level one...

Indeed, it gets points for the dapper stache ability.

If you are going for stealthbot, the cat does help at low levels. I still think the bat, raven, or hare are better choices. The hare has a +15 in stealth off the bat, so you can use your familiar to scout ahead and just read it's empathy. Plus the deception patron just gives you invisibility, so you don't really need stealth after a few levels anyways.

[Harmelyo]

Nice guide overall even if I don't agree on several points and I find both Winter Witch and the prestige class seriously lacking compared to a vanilla witch.

Regarding the Samsaran Past Life, it is actually 3 to 6 spells (1+Int) as Samsaran are a +2 Int race.

Numbing Chill in the PRC part is a nice Hex but it won't stack with Frozen Caress due to being swift action (a terrible oversight from the devs if I may...) which reduce its interest quite a lot.

both those Hexes are good but trading your swift is bad as it means competing with quicken spells at high level.

Rime Spell: add Enteangled condition not staggered (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/rime-spell-metamagic) it would be way too good otherwise.

[Geddy2112]

Nice guide overall even if I don't agree on several points and I find both Winter Witch and the prestige class seriously lacking compared to a vanilla witch.

Regarding the Samsaran Past Life, it is actually 3 to 6 spells (1+Int) as Samsaran are a +2 Int race.

Numbing Chill in the PRC part is a nice Hex but it won't stack with Frozen Caress due to being swift action (a terrible oversight from the devs if I may...) which reduce its interest quite a lot.

both those Hexes are good but trading your swift is bad as it means competing with quicken spells at high level.

Rime Spell: add Enteangled condition not staggered (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/rime-spell-metamagic) it would be way too good otherwise.

Thanks for the feedback. I put 3-5 as a general average, but you are right that you could start with an 18 intelligence before modifiers.

It does suck that the numbing chill and frozen caress don't stack, and that they do eat your swift action. Using all of your swift actions as spells in a combat won't happen until really high levels though.

I knew it was entangled and not staggered, typo for reviewing so many staggering effects :smalltongue: thanks for catching it!

[Psyren]

Note that you can take two swift actions a round by readying the second one in place of your standard action. Just pick a triggering condition that happens off-turn, like having your familiar make a particular noise or something.

As far as PrCs, don't forget that Evangelist will also progress your hexes. The only deity that specifically grants hex-related boons though is Urgathoa, and she sadly sucks, but there are less specific boons that might help.

[Frosty]

If you want to update this guide, in Ultimate Wilderness there is a witch Archetype called Season Witch iirc. If you choose Winter, you can gain an additional +1 to your save DCs on spells that deal cold damage. The tradeoff is that you're locked into the Healing Hex or Ward Hex at level 1, but it might be a decent tradeoff for some.

[Thunder999]

You might want to mention the prestigious caster feat from Paths of the Righteous, it will get you back that missed level of casting when you go winter witch PrC, meaning that for the cost of a couple of feats you will lose absolutely nothing by taking it.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

If you want to update this guide, in Ultimate Wilderness there is a witch Archetype called Season Witch iirc. If you choose Winter, you can gain an additional +1 to your save DCs on spells that deal cold damage. The tradeoff is that you're locked into the Healing Hex or Ward Hex at level 1, but it might be a decent tradeoff for some.

Does Season Witch stack with Winter Witch? If so, Season/Winter/Watcher Witch into Winter Witch sounds like a very fun build imo, if not entirely optimal. Protect my family, sap the heat from my enemies' bones, it's all Winter in the end.

[EisenKreutzer]

Does Season Witch stack with Winter Witch? If so, Season/Winter/Watcher Witch into Winter Witch sounds like a very fun build imo, if not entirely optimal. Protect my family, sap the heat from my enemies' bones, it's all Winter in the end.

Winter Witch is a Prestige Class, so you can safely take both.

[Geddy2112]

You might want to mention the prestigious caster feat from Paths of the Righteous, it will get you back that missed level of casting when you go winter witch PrC, meaning that for the cost of a couple of feats you will lose absolutely nothing by taking it.
Noted and added to the guide. Possibly a better feat than taking magical knack as a trait as it competes for magical lineage and a free rime or intensified spell. It also beats knack as you can actually get access to higher level spells and spells per day, not just an increased caster level.


If you want to update this guide, in Ultimate Wilderness there is a witch Archetype called Season Witch iirc. If you choose Winter, you can gain an additional +1 to your save DCs on spells that deal cold damage. The tradeoff is that you're locked into the Healing Hex or Ward Hex at level 1, but it might be a decent tradeoff for some.

I have not read ultimate wilderness just yet, but I will add this when I do. The extra DC is nice, but winter is an absolutely awful patron. Healing and ward are both pretty bad hexes- ward keeps mileage at low levels when you don't have cloak of resistance and ring of protection beating it out. Healing is useless once the party has a wand of CLW, something a witch can use without a use magic device check. Even at level 1-2 before magical healing is spammable, you can only target somebody with the healing hex once a day. I have not read the full archetype yet, but I would suggest ward for a first level hex as it can be buffed up before combat, allowing you to throw high DC snowballs. A rank in heal can cover emergency stabilization at low levels anyways(with your familiar, you get 2 attempts if your DM rules your familiar may attempt a heal check).

[EisenKreutzer]

Season Witch is a weird archetype. The +1 to save DC is literally all it grants.

[grarrrg]

Winter Witch is a Prestige Class, so you can safely take both.

No Winter Witch (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/archetypes/paizo-witch-archetypes/winter-witch) is an archetype.
Winter Witch (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/winter-witch/) is a PrC though.

So the question was does Season Witch stack with Winter Witch. Not does Season Witch stack with Winter Witch (which is kind of nonsensical).

And, for those that care, Winter Witch does indeed work fine with Winter Witch.

Hooray Paizo and reusing names...

[EisenKreutzer]

No Winter Witch (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/archetypes/paizo-witch-archetypes/winter-witch) is an archetype.
Winter Witch (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/winter-witch/) is a PrC though.

So the question was does Season Witch stack with Winter Witch. Not does Season Witch stack with Winter Witch (which is kind of nonsensical).

And, for those that care, Winter Witch does indeed work fine with Winter Witch.

Hooray Paizo and reusing names...

So, if a Seasonal Witch of winter is also called a Winter Witch, you could create a Winter Witch Winter Witch Winter Witch.

[grarrrg]

So, if a Seasonal Witch of winter is also called a Winter Witch, you could create a Winter Witch Winter Witch Winter Witch.

Now you got it.

[Serafina]

Season Witch does technically alter Patron, technically leading to incompatability with the Winter Witch archetype.
However, all that feature really does is make you pick either the spring, summer, autumn or winter patron, and then adds certain benefits to it. Since you can be a Winter Witch Witch which has the Winter Patron, it's very easy to make this work.

Of course, the Winter Patron isn't the best, so in exchange for that and either taking the healing or warding hex at first level, you'd get +1 to the DC of spells that deal cold damage. And you'd get to be a Winter Winter Witch Witch Winter Witch Winter Witch (Patron, season archetype, archetype, prestige class).

[Nizaris]

Now my Pathfinder-fu isn't the best, but is there a reliable way to get Create Water on the witch as a regular cantrip or at least a multi-use option that scales? The ability to freeze water is all the better when you're able to create a suitable supply.

The traits that grant it are one use and only as 1st level, multi-class cleric (taking a suitable domain) works but that delays hexes and witch progression.

[grarrrg]

Now my Pathfinder-fu isn't the best, but is there a reliable way to get Create Water on the witch

Bookmark this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?296803-Pathfinder-mini-guide-Casting-spells-from-other-lists/page2). It has a lot of ways to get 'not on my list' spells.

I didn't hunt around for Create Water on Witch though. Samsaran is out though, as Create Water is only on Divine lists.
Two-World Magic Trait, adds any 0th level spell to your list (possible Fluff restrictions).

[Geddy2112]

Bookmark this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?296803-Pathfinder-mini-guide-Casting-spells-from-other-lists/page2). It has a lot of ways to get 'not on my list' spells.

I didn't hunt around for Create Water on Witch though. Samsaran is out though, as Create Water is only on Divine lists.
Two-World Magic Trait, adds any 0th level spell to your list (possible Fluff restrictions).
Noted and added. Create water is a nice cantrip in its own right, but it won't make the freeze and thaw ability suddenly incredible. There is likely somebody in the party that can cast it, but worth noting.


Season Witch does technically alter Patron, technically leading to incompatability with the Winter Witch archetype.
However, all that feature really does is make you pick either the spring, summer, autumn or winter patron, and then adds certain benefits to it. Since you can be a Winter Witch Witch which has the Winter Patron, it's very easy to make this work.

Of course, the Winter Patron isn't the best, so in exchange for that and either taking the healing or warding hex at first level, you'd get +1 to the DC of spells that deal cold damage. And you'd get to be a Winter Winter Witch Witch Winter Witch Winter Witch (Patron, season archetype, archetype, prestige class).
Getting +1 DC is nice and a strong upgrade, even though you get screwed with a terrible patron and subpar hex.

I have added this as well, and I am working on adding a brief mention of stackable archetypes. Thanks again everyone!

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Season Witch does technically alter Patron, technically leading to incompatability with the Winter Witch archetype.
However, all that feature really does is make you pick either the spring, summer, autumn or winter patron, and then adds certain benefits to it. Since you can be a Winter Witch Witch which has the Winter Patron, it's very easy to make this work.

Of course, the Winter Patron isn't the best, so in exchange for that and either taking the healing or warding hex at first level, you'd get +1 to the DC of spells that deal cold damage. And you'd get to be a Winter Winter Witch Witch Winter Witch Winter Witch (Patron, season archetype, archetype, prestige class).

+2, since the Winter Witch archetype also grants +1 to cold spells, which is a pretty good buff for a themed caster. And whenever cold spells and other hexes aren’t helpful, Witch-watcher and your mandatory support hexes make you a good utility mage to keep allies fighting!

[Nizaris]

Bookmark this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?296803-Pathfinder-mini-guide-Casting-spells-from-other-lists/page2). It has a lot of ways to get 'not on my list' spells.

I didn't hunt around for Create Water on Witch though. Samsaran is out though, as Create Water is only on Divine lists.
Two-World Magic Trait, adds any 0th level spell to your list (possible Fluff restrictions).

Thanks, if I can figure it out I'll point it out. An infinite supply of water means you can build anything you need if given enough time without relying on party or Decanter of Endless Water.

[Frosty]

Seasonal Witch + Winter Witch + Affinity for the Elements (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/religion-traits/affinity-for-the-elements/) = +3 save DC for cold spells, even at level 1. Kinda awesome.

[Geddy2112]

Seasonal Witch + Winter Witch + Affinity for the Elements (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/religion-traits/affinity-for-the-elements/) = +3 save DC for cold spells, even at level 1. Kinda awesome.

First level feat as elemental focus(cold) and you are up to +4. If you are an elf, you can take the overwhelming magic racial trait that replaces elven magic, giving you a +1 to a spell school. Take that on conjuration, and now you are looking at a +5 to the DC of cold conjuration spells. Elves get +2 INT, making it possible to have 20 INT out the gate. So a 20 INT elf, season/winter witch+affinity+elemental focus(cold) +overwhelming magic gives you a DC21 snowball at level 1.

I am going to put a few sample builds in the guide. This will be the "sheer blaster" max DC build.

Thanks again everyone for the input and bringing new life to my silly little mini guide. Keep suggestions coming.

[EisenKreutzer]

Keep in mind that Snowball was just nerfed with the release of Ultimate Wilderness.

[Heemi]

I'd personally up the rating for Herb Witch since it provides party support which the Winter Witch is otherwise lacking. Removing Blindness/Deafness for effectively free is nothing to sneeze at.

[Geddy2112]

I'd personally up the rating for Herb Witch since it provides party support which the Winter Witch is otherwise lacking. Removing Blindness/Deafness for effectively free is nothing to sneeze at.

I am honored that people are still reading this, and in that I need to update and finish a few things. Thank you.

I do disagree with you though. It is not effectively free, it requires maxing profession(herbalist) which is made unsuck by the class since it proxies for craft(alchemy) but still key's off your dump stat of wisdom instead of your key stat intelligence. If your DM is uncool then that cauldron hex you have to take gets nerfed as the +4 to craft alchemy won't apply to your herbalist checks. The super irony is that at level 2, your craft alchemy with 2 ranks is going to be far stronger than your profession(herbalist) with 2 ranks, since your INT is higher and the +4 from cauldron.

Blindness and deafness won't(generally) show up at first level, and if they do you have big issues. Witches get remove bindness/deafness on their list and can learn it at 5th level. It comes up, but a couple scrolls are usually sufficient. Removing nausea is pretty cool though, and I could see a niche application if you are helping your barbarian rage cycle.

The biggest problem is that these niche support hexes are taking the venom out of the cobra by delaying your access to better and more useful hexes(slumber). Also, this is from the view for stacking on winter witch, which is focused far more on blasting and debuffing than support. I think the archetype would be so much better mechanically and thematically on the Shaman, but so it goes.