Football, Eberron style (Challenge)

[The Gilded Duke]

I was reading through my copy of Sharn city of towers and came upon this wonderful gem. A sport that Shifters play.

Hrazhak:

Two teams of seven shifters each.
Each team has a wooden idol.
To score a team must steal the opposing teams idol and then place both idols at their goal.

Magic and Psionics are not allowed.
Weapons are not allowed.
Attacks with natural weapons and unarmed strikes are allowed.
If you get knocked out or otherwise request healing you are removed from the match.
Shifter abilities are allowed.

So, I want to challenge people to make a Hrazhak team. Seven shifters, no use of magic or psionics, or magical or psionic items. Obvious use of Incarnum or Tome of Magic not allowed. Psionic Focus abilities can be used as long as they are not the type which expend Psionic Focus. Obviously supernatural Tome of Battle techniques not allowed.

Any shifter traits are allowed even if they produce a magical effect.

All characters are 15th level.

The suggested team in the book included at least two climbers, at least two runners, and at least two renders.

[Emperor Tippy]

7 Shifter Monks of course.

What else would you choose for unarmed combat and a game?

[storybookknight]

7 EL 15 characters? For Hrazhak?

Whats-his-face the Fleshweaver is a 18th level transmuter, and he's one of the most powerful people walking! Tone it way, way, way down. Eberron is not Faerun!

[Emperor Tippy]

Well that to. But no matter the level the best choice is still pretty much 7 Monks.

[Just Alex]

Barbarians would be pretty good from levels 1-5

[Emperor Tippy]

I would still give the advantage to monks for something like this.

[The Gilded Duke]

True that its ECS and so 15th level is absurdley high, I just thought that having a higher level cap would lead to some more interesting combinations. Meant this more to be a character building exercize then necessarily an eberron game exercize, although I am planning a 10th level version of it as a one shot in my area though. While ten is still a little high, it does allow for more alteration in strategy and a wider variety of builds.

Also I'm not sure that 7 shifter monks would necessarily be the best at this. While they are probably going to be the best for speed, they aren't going to necessarily be the best unarmed attacker, or the best defender.

For defence I'd probably get a barbarian with improved grapple and rageclaw, making his grapple modifiers and disarm check rolls as high as possible.

Probably aiding him I'd have a Shifter Knight with vile deformity feats to give him reach with his natural weapons.

[Emperor Tippy]

7 Shifter Monks at ECL 15 all with Vow of Poverty.

They would win every time.

[The Gilded Duke]

Hmmm, didn't think of vow of poverty... that would get around the restriction of not using magic items. There might be a way to beat that, but I can't think of it now, so.. what else would you do besides the 7 vop monks?

[Emperor Tippy]

swordsages with the unarmed damage variant. getting into bloodclaw master.

[The_Snark]

2 scouts, a barbarian, and a monk for offense. The scouts are fast, can hide in plain sight, and can Tumble at full speed by this time. 1 scout is a longstrider, the other is a swiftwing. The barbarian is for distraction; he can charge in, and suddenly they've got to pay attention to him. Doesn't really matter what sort of shifter he is. The monk is just in case; he's a grappler with excellent speed, probably a longstrider. Can double back to defend if necessary.

On defense, we ought to have a crusader, a knight, and a scout. The scout has blindsense, which means no stealth from enemies, and we'll make him a wildhunt shifter for good measure; he stays hidden with a readied action to charge and disarm anybody who manages to grab the idol. Give him a level of rogue, too, and max out Sleight of Hand so that he can nab it while hidden if he really needs to. The crusader and knight sit right next to the idol and trip anybody who gets close. If we can get away with it, we'll give them both 4 warshaper levels so that they can have reach while shifting and can't be taken out through attrition. They're something that gets natural attacks, probably longtooth shifters.

[PMDM]

I have a football game, which, at it's core was competetive ability checks.

1)STR checks. You could double team someone on a strength check, effectivly aiding them, or making the check yourself. It's mainly used for the Offensive Line, and the Defensive Line. The winner keeps the line, or breaks though to the backfield. Ties, nothing happens.
2) Dexterity checks. When you are opposing another runner, both of you make a DEX check. The winner can move 10 extra feet that round. Also, you break a tackle by making a DEX check against the tackler. It's possible for a tackler to aid another tackler, but a runner can't help a runner.
3) Whenever you lose a check, make a CON check, or you take a -1 on all your checks. This is culmulative.
4) When you pick a play, the captains make an opposed INT check. The winner gets help on what play they should probably pick.
5) Durning the snap time, the Quarter Back can choose to make an opposed wisdom check against the linebackers. Whoever wins gets to see the play that the opponent called.
6) You can make an audible during the snap time. But no one changes positions if the ball is snapped at the same time. It's possible for the team to snap the ball while the players are still moving, however.
7) CHA is used by cheerleaders, to help their team. They each select a DC for their "cheerleading". They make a CHA check. For every 5 DC the cheerleader passed, the cheerleading bonus goes up. Multiple people can do one manuever, adding an extra +1 per cheerleader, but if one fails the manuver, they all fail. The highest cheerleading manuver bonus gets added to all checks made during the "play".
EX: 3 cheerleaders set a DC 20 manuver. they all pass. +4 for the DC 20. +2 for the extra cheerleaders, making a +6 in total. 2 other cheerleaders did a +7 manuver, however, so the +7 is added to the football team instead.
8) Passing on the thrower's end is STR based. The base DC is 10. +5 for every 5 yards you have to throw. The thrower can also volutarily increase the DC, for reasons not yet explained. The catcher must make a DEX check of the same DC that the thrower made. Throwing is a full round action, else it's a +5 to the minimum throw DC.
9) If someone tries to intercept the pass, they must make a DEX check greater than the catcher and thrower (the blocker can intercept a pass that didn't make it's DC rating.). To block the pass, the blocker must only have to beat the thrower's STR check. It's possible to aid another in making a block check.
10) I don't really know what to do about kicking. It's too easy to make a character that's only good at kicking, so maybe it's a skill?

Other than the fact that I ignore the REF, and FORT saves, I think it's a fairly solid system, except for kicking. All other football rules apply as normal.

The DCs are design for an adventuring party. A 1st level character will have a hard time doing any throwing, but a 20th level character can preety much throw the ball as far as he needs.

[Bagera]

Going with a 3 1 3 style of play

3 forwards:
Ninja (15) Invisibility, and Ghost step Ethereal for the win,
Druid (5) Master if Many forms (10) for shapeshifting versitility.
Psion (5) Psion Uncarnate (10)
1 Mid Fielder:
Psychic Warrior (5) Elocator (10) Speed, and dimension stepping.
3 Defenders:
Druid(15) with blind sense
2 Barbarian (4) Warshifter (4) Weretouched Master (5) Fighter (2)
1 Bear, 1 Tiger

[Thamir]

I would have to go an entire team of Tome of Battle Characters although perhaps it could include a warlock as their infusions are spell-like abilities, although they probably wouldn't be allowed, a dragon diciple would be good.

[Azerian Kelimon]

For the snatcher, I think a Swordsage with 1 level of barb or monk, psywar, and some other speed enhancing capability would be nice. Not that psywar is there for taking speed of thought. An extra 10' is always nice, and the swordy can use wind stride or something called like that for another +10'.

[Hario]

wait... you're telling me people would choose monks over level 7 druids? did anyone forget that wildshape is this:
Wild Shape (Su)

At 5th level, a druid gains the ability to turn herself into any Small or Medium animal and back again once per day. Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type. This ability functions like the alternate form special ability, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per druid level, or until she changes back. Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. Each time you use wild shape, you regain lost hit points as if you had rested for a night. I forget how far you need to be for master of many forms to shift into were creatures but I think a were-boar wouldn't be too bad to wildshape into. Also you can wildeshape and then shift for even more bonuses.

[brian c]

7 Shifter Monks at ECL 15 all with Vow of Poverty.

They would win every time.

Tippy just recommended monk with VoP.

Has the world ended yet?

[JaxGaret]

Are they playing in an AMF field? Are (Su) or (Sp) abilities allowed?

If so, you definitely need some characters with 6 levels of Horizon Walker.

DimDoor/1d4 rounds = Win.

[captain_decadence]

Except that a were-boar is not an animal. That kinda messes with that plan.

[MisterSaturnine]

I hate to be the person who points things out like this (perhaps because I haven't yet had the chance :smallwink:) but...


Seven shifters, no use of magic or psionics, or magical or psionic items. Obvious use of Incarnum or Tome of Magic not allowed. Psionic Focus abilities can be used as long as they are not the type which expend Psionic Focus. Obviously supernatural Tome of Battle techniques not allowed.

[JaxGaret]

Yeah, (Su) ToB is not allowed... Horizon Walker is not ToB.

This needs clarification... are any (Su) or (Sp) abilities allowed?

[Hario]

Except that a were-boar is not an animal. That kinda messes with that plan.
No but neither are shifters, and it is a type of shifting. Also don't forget of the wildshape shifting feats in complete divine which can easily make you better than a monk, but you'd prolly want extra shifting as well...

[Mewtarthio]

A Bard with ridiculous Perform check simply Fascinates all the opponents while his Rogue buddy sneaks past them and steals the idol. I call this the Ender Wiggum strategy, aka "Cheating is always the secret right answer, as long as it's not explicitly forbidden." :smallbiggrin:

Okay, seriously now, how big is the playing field?

[JaxGaret]

A Bard with ridiculous Perform check simply Fascinates all the opponents while his Rogue buddy sneaks past them and steals the idol. I call this the Ender Wiggum strategy, aka "Cheating is always the secret right answer, as long as it's not explicitly forbidden." :smallbiggrin:

Okay, seriously now, how big is the playing field?

I'd assume that the football game counts as "nearby combat or other dangers", so that tactic is out.

But I'm all up for out-and-out cheating to win this Hrazhak.

[RTGoodman]

A Bard with ridiculous Perform check simply Fascinates all the opponents while his Rogue buddy sneaks past them and steals the idol. I call this the Ender Wiggum strategy, aka "Cheating is always the secret right answer, as long as it's not explicitly forbidden." :smallbiggrin:

Okay, seriously now, how big is the playing field?

I think you mean "Ender Wiggin," but other than that it's a solid tactic (if Spell-Like abilities are allowed). Focus the Bard on making sure he'll catch all the opponents with Fascinate, and then he can even use Suggestion and suggest that they lie down and sleep or something.

[Mewtarthio]

I think you mean "Ender Wiggin," but other than that it's a solid tactic (if Spell-Like abilities are allowed). Focus the Bard on making sure he'll catch all the opponents with Fascinate, and then he can even use Suggestion and suggest that they lie down and sleep or something.

Bards tend to not be taken very seriously (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RalphWiggum). "Fascinate" is not an SLA, so it's allowed. The only tricky part is getting it off before anyone else gets a chance to enter combat.

Excellent save, Mewtarthio! They don't suspect a thing!

[Xefas]

I would say a Warblade/Speed Boost Dip with the Charging Minotaur maneuver would be pretty good. Move 80ft without provoking any AoOs, swift action to recharge it, repeat. Depends on how big the field is, really, but even so, unstoppably charging that last 27ish yards to the idol could be very useful.