Druid math check

[Theodred theOld]

Anyone care to check my math on this fleshraker animal companion? She belongs to an 11th level druid with natural bond. Attack routine: claw, claw, tail/bite, rake - +16/ +14/ +14/ +14 each dealing 1d8. AC 28. HP 90. Poison DC 19 (ability focus, virulent poison). That's all I can remember without the sheet right in front of me but if I get a chance to look at it I may post the ability score later.

[jiriku]

I would expect an attack routine of +16/+16/+11/+11, but likely the fleshraker acquired Multiattack with its advanced hit dice. The 1d8 die size sounds wrong. It could theoretically take Improved Natural Attack twice to increase its bite and tail damage to 1d8, but the claws are 1d6 with INA already applied on the basic stat block. Poison save DC is correct at 19. AC should be 26 rather than 28. Perhaps it had an AC buff of some kind, or had taken feats to improve AC? Hit points sound very high but not impossible if it was a rolled result -- average for that hit die and Con would be 65. Some players assume that when animal companions receive bonus hit dice they grow in size as indicated in the Advancement line of their stat block. This is not the case -- bonus companion hit dice are not advancement hit dice. Did you make it Large? That would cause a number of the discrepancies seen here.

[Theodred theOld]

That is indeed what happened here. I went ahead and read the rules for advancing companions again. This seems to be the relevent bit here:
Bonus HD
Extra eight-sided (d8) Hit Dice, each of which gains a Constitution modifier, as normal. Remember that extra Hit Dice improve the animal companion’s base attack and base save bonuses. An animal companion’s base attack bonus is the same as that of a druid of a level equal to the animal’s HD. An animal companion has good Fortitude and Reflex saves (treat it as a character whose level equals the animal’s HD). An animal companion gains additional skill points and feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster’s Hit Dice.

Nothing there that would lead me to believe that an animal companion wouldn't get larger as it's HD increase. Am I missing something?

[Andezzar]

Nothing there that would lead me to believe that an animal companion wouldn't get larger as it's HD increase. Am I missing something?You are missing:
A 1st-level druid’s companion is completely typical for its kind except as noted below.

[...]

Use the base statistics for a creature of the companion’s kind, but make the following changes.

Bonus HD are not the same as the HD advancement (which sometimes includes size increases) normal animals get. The changes for the animal companion do not include size increases, so the animal companion does not increase in size.

[Theodred theOld]

So the increase in abilities comes after becoming a companion. I always assumed that stronger druids just attracted stronger animals.

[Theodred theOld]

Ok. Maybe I'm still missing the point. If a creature is typical for it's type then wouldn't the HD increase also increase it's size as would be typical for a creature of that type?

[Bronk]

So the increase in abilities comes after becoming a companion. I always assumed that stronger druids just attracted stronger animals.

Previous editions worked like this, but...


Ok. Maybe I'm still missing the point. If a creature is typical for it's type then wouldn't the HD increase also increase it's size as would be typical for a creature of that type?

What you are missing is this line from the PHB/SRD:


A 1st-level druid’s companion is completely typical for its kind except as noted below. As a druid advances in level, the animal’s power increases as shown on the table.

So, instead of improving the animal companion using the 'improving monsters' rules, which can be found in the MM1 or the SRD, you take the base animal, and only improve it as noted in the rules and table. In this case, size increases aren't included.

[Ruethgar]

Of course it is possible for the druid to try and find a non-standard one with rolled stats if you are keeping 3.0 content available via Masters of the Wild, but even that method only alters abilities and not advancement HD.

[Telonius]

To put it another way, let's assume that (instead of a Fleshraker) you selected Dog as your animal companion. There is no advancement listed for Dog in its monster entry. That does not mean that a Dog companion is stuck at 1hd forever. You'd still add the bonus hit dice, starting at level 3.

It might be helpful to think of them as taking a level in "Druid Companion."

[Theodred theOld]

Still confusing but I think I understand the spirit of this odd little sub-system now.