Admiral's Bicorne???

[Jeargroth]

Trying to grasp the +5 bonus to Charisma checks... It's untyped, so I am curious what it's limits are. Does that +5 include Sorcerers and their spell casting DC's as it's Charisma based. Does it include Binders with their Binding as they get to add Charisma to their roll for good or bad bind? What are the limits, are there limits? Or is it just to skills?

Thanks

[Optimator]

The Player's Handbook has this specifically somewhere, I think. Anyway, Charisma checks are basically anytime you add your Charisma modifier to a d20 roll. NOT everything charisma-related, such as spell DCs. This would be for vanilla Cha checks to see if someone likes the cut of your jib, the charisma-based skills, controlling a creature that has been bound, influencing someone under the effects of a charm, and perhaps a few other things. Perhaps turning checks but not turning damage? I think that's right.

[DrMotives]

It looks like anytime you roll 1d20 +cha + whatever else. So as you don't roll to set spell DCs, I wouldn't allow charisma based casters to have the hat help that. I would allow to skill checks, dispel checks, and raw skill checks. If they meant everything, they'd say +5 to cha, not +5 to cha checks.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Checks.

If you're not rolling a d20 then it's not a check. If the text says charisma checks, rather than charisma-based checks, then it only applies when you're rolling a d20+cha and nothing else except bonuses to charisma checks and charisma-based checks.

[Optimator]

It wouldn't work on dispel checks, as it is a caster level check.

Anyway, I ****ing love The Admiral's Bicorne. I have two characters with one and they're invaluable. I love the Inspire Courage effect.

[BowStreetRunner]

The specific wording is Charisma-based checks, not Charisma checks. That is actually quite an important distinction.

Charisma-based checks include Charima checks, skill checks using skills that have Charisma as their key ability (Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Perform, and Use Magic Device), and Turning checks. Note that turning checks specifically state "This is a Charisma check (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#turnOrRebukeUndead)".

[Greenish]

The item's description is poorly worded, which can cause some confusion, but as the fine minds above have explained, the bonus applies to all d20 rolls to which you can add your charisma modifier to, and to your Leadership score (which isn't a check despite the wording on the item description).

[Jeargroth]

Got it... Thanks folks. So long as I am rolling a die (D20) I get the +5, but it doesn't affect static numbers like spell DC. So won't affect spells cast, but if you use Charisma to try and cast the spell it affects that. Like UMD, Charisma helps in using the item, not the target DC of the item.

[Fouredged Sword]

Got it... Thanks folks. So long as I am rolling a die (D20) I get the +5, but it doesn't affect static numbers like spell DC. So won't affect spells cast, but if you use Charisma to try and cast the spell it affects that. Like UMD, Charisma helps in using the item, not the target DC of the item.

Yes, and note, just because you add your charisma to a check it isn't by definition a charisma based check. You run into situations that charisma is added to a check that would not normally consider your charisma. These are not turned into charisma based checks. For example, the Marshal auras that add your charisma to all other skills and checks don't turn those skills and checks into charisma based checks.

[Jowgen]

It is a little known fact that Leadership "checks" do in fact exist. They are a very obscure mechanic found on page 156 of Power of Faerun.



just because you add your charisma to a check it isn't by definition a charisma based check. You run into situations that charisma is added to a check that would not normally consider your charisma. These are not turned into charisma based checks. For example, the Marshal auras that add your charisma to all other skills and checks don't turn those skills and checks into charisma based checks.

... Are you sure about that? :smallconfused: I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't think there is any RAW supporting your argument either. All we know from the rules on checks (RC p. 29) is that they are d20 rolls representing efforts to accomplish tasks, which are modified by a range of factors (e.g. race, ranks), including a creature's "talent" for the task, which is what it's adding of an ability modifier represents.

The ability modifier on a check representing "talent" is the closest thing we have to a definition of "-ability- based" means. In normal situations, only one of the creature's ability modifiers represents it's talent for the task; but AFAIK, there is nothing anywhere stipulating that a check can only ever be "based"/incorporate "talent" represented by a single ability score.

Now I do think there is a basis of forestalling this if something is classed as a bonus, rather than a modifier. If you have a check that includes X-ability modifier, and you then get a bonus equal to Y-ability modifier on that check; I don't think you could argue it to be Y-ability based. On the other hand, if you gain Y-ability as a modifier, then I think you can.

Example: Marshal Auras give a bonus equal to Charisma (shouldn't work), while a Factotum's Brains over Brawn gives Intelligence as a modifier (should work).

[Fouredged Sword]

It is a little known fact that Leadership "checks" do in fact exist. They are a very obscure mechanic found on page 156 of Power of Faerun.




... Are you sure about that? :smallconfused: I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't think there is any RAW supporting your argument either. All we know from the rules on checks (RC p. 29) is that they are d20 rolls representing efforts to accomplish tasks, which are modified by a range of factors (e.g. race, ranks), including a creature's "talent" for the task, which is what it's adding of an ability modifier represents.

The ability modifier on a check representing "talent" is the closest thing we have to a definition of "-ability- based" means. In normal situations, only one of the creature's ability modifiers represents it's talent for the task; but AFAIK, there is nothing anywhere stipulating that a check can only ever be "based"/incorporate "talent" represented by a single ability score.

Now I do think there is a basis of forestalling this if something is classed as a bonus, rather than a modifier. If you have a check that includes X-ability modifier, and you then get a bonus equal to Y-ability modifier on that check; I don't think you could argue it to be Y-ability based. On the other hand, if you gain Y-ability as a modifier, then I think you can.

Example: Marshal Auras give a bonus equal to Charisma (shouldn't work), while a Factotum's Brains over Brawn gives Intelligence as a modifier (should work).

The distinction is that you only have one ability that counts as the "ability modifier" for a skill. This is the ability listed as the associated "key ability" for that skill. The other attribute is being added as one of the miscellaneous bonuses. You can only have one BASE. You can be ether Charisma based OR dexterity based, not both.

The RAW I am reading is kinda fuzzy, but here is what I am basing my reading off of.



A skill check takes into account a character’s training (skill rank), natural talent (ability modifier), and luck (the die roll). It may also take into account his or her race’s knack for doing certain things (racial bonus) or what armor he or she is wearing (armor check penalty), or a certain feat the character possesses, among other things.

To make a skill check, roll 1d20 and add your character’s skill modifier for that skill. The skill modifier incorporates the character’s ranks in that skill and the ability modifier for that skill’s key ability, plus any other miscellaneous modifiers that may apply, including racial bonuses and armor check penalties. The higher the result, the better. Unlike with attack rolls and saving throws, a natural roll of 20 on the d20 is not an automatic success, and a natural roll of 1 is not an automatic failure.

ability modifier, not modifiers

This shows how the game marks the attribute a skill is based off of as different than other attributes being added in as a bonus.