[3.5] Builds that shine at level 1

[WalkingTheShade]

One of my player is re-rolling a level 1 character, a dwarf cleric with the Strength and War domains.
I realize his character packs quite a punch, gets some versatility thanks to spells, can spontaneously heal and the turn undead. Comparing his build to the other ones (level 1 or 2) already in play, his character has more strong abilities.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss and present builds that shine at level 1, notwithstanding their future progression.
Criteria are:

Power in combat
Power outside combat
Versatility
Thematic fit, i.e. internal consistency of the various character abilities


Traits are fine, flaws are not.
EDIT: moreover, I'm not a big fan of the {scrubbed} Tome of Battle.

[noob]

Simply wizard is good.
Take hypnosis and charm person for shining outside of battle and one spell like sleep of color rays for shining in battle.
Cantrips will do a lot of things like detecting magic and finding invisible people(happens some times at level 1) and so on.
well yes before he gets some extra spells he will not be as versatile as a cleric but they rather compliment clerics well at level 1.

[Troacctid]

Simply wizard is good.
Take hypnosis and charm person for shining outside of battle and one spell like sleep of color rays for shining in battle.
Cantrips will do a lot of things like detecting magic and finding invisible people(happens some times at level 1) and so on.
well yes before he gets some extra spells he will not be as versatile as a cleric but they rather compliment clerics well at level 1.

Beguiler is straight better if those are your spells. More HP, more spells per day, more spells known, more skill points, spontaneous casting, light armor. All you miss out on is the familiar, which you can't afford at level 1 anyway.

[Dread_Head]

Wizard with Abrupt Jaunt and well chosen spells is easily one of the most powerful 1st level characters. To go all out take Metamagic School Focus and Fell Drain to throw out negative levels from first level slots.

As Troacctid says Beguiler is pretty good too. And Sorcerer is ok with carefully chosen spells but probably comes in behind these two.

If you want a non caster, then Crusaders are excellent at level 1 and the other initiators aren't far behind.

Binder offers a lot of utility at this level and if you take improved binding you can have second level vestiges.

Druid is pretty damn good too between animal companion and spells such as entangle all on a similar chassis to the clerics but with less need for Str, Dex & Cha.

[noob]

"Beguiler is straight better if those are your spells. More HP, more spells per day, more spells known, more skill points, spontaneous casting, light armor. All you miss out on is the familiar, which you can't afford at level 1 anyway. "
I was doing a Core only wizard but of course it can get better if you forcefeed it the manuals.

[A_S]

What do you mean by "thematic fit?" What do you want these builds to fit in with? The other criteria seem straightforward.

-----

Anyway, strong level 1 characters: A Crusader 1 with Stone Bones, Crusader's Strike, and Martial Spirit is more or less immortal against level-appropriate challenges, and goes a long way toward keeping the rest of the party alive, too.
A Human Wizard 1 with Fell Drain and Metamagic School Focus can instantly kill anything vulnerable to negative levels at level 1. You can either go Evoker (which lets you use Fell Drain Sonic Snap as your kill spell), or Conjurer (which has to use the touch-attack-requiring Fell Drain Acid Splash, but gets much better survivability via Abrupt Jaunt). Either way, you should also trade out Scribe Scroll for Improved Initiative, so you can just kill an enemy at the start of the fight.
A Human Conjurer 1 with Precocious Apprentice (Blades of Fire) and Fiery Burst can dish out 2d6 fire damage per round in a small AoE, with the aforementioned Abrupt Jaunt and Improved Initiative benefits to help out.
An Azurin Binder 1 with Expanded Soulmeld Capacity and any Incarnum feat that gives bonus essentia can use Dissolving Spittle to throw out 3d6 acid damage touch attacks every round, and use Mantle of Flame to deal 2d6 reciprocal fire damage whenever they're attacked in melee.
A Druid 1 (basically just any Druid 1) is going to be pretty strong on the basis of having an animal companion and still having both a decent chassis and spellcasting.
A Duskblade 1 with a decent Int score is pretty strong, just due to having the notoriously encounter-ending Color Spray, but still having decent HP, AC, and weapon proficiencies. Basically, you cast the same spells as a Wizard 1, but when you're out of slots you're still almost as good as a Fighter 1.

[Necroticplague]

Crusaders are pretty dang good level 1. While they're healing will drop off pretty quickly, it's easily most your health at level 1. And their delayed damage pool is enough to keep them still standing at this level.

Troll-blooded is excellent at level 1, because the amount of ways to do fire or acid damage at that level are fairly small.

[Troacctid]

A Crusader 1 with Stone Bones, Crusader's Strike, and Martial Spirit is more or less immortal against level-appropriate challenges, and goes a long way toward keeping the rest of the party alive, too.

Make it a Warforged Crusader with Adamantine Body or an Azurin Crusader with Shape Soulmeld (Astral Vambraces), because why have damage reduction 25% of the time when you can have it all the time?

[WalkingTheShade]

What do you mean by "thematic fit?" What do you want these builds to fit in with? The other criteria seem straightforward.
Actually, the words could have been chosen better. I meant "Thematic consistency": as in a character that wouldn't need fluff justification for having too many differently flavored abilities. I'll edit the first post.

For example: "my character is a dwarf cleric of Clanggedin, the dwarf god of battle" is sounds more consistent than: "my character is some [insert rare race here] who learned the trade [insert rare class here]. Since members of [rare class] are hated wherever my character comes from, he went away and met some schmuck that recognized his potential and taught him how to [some obscure feat]."

What else could one do to make a level 1 Druid better?
I always have a hard time selecting feats for Druids, even at higher level (except Natural spell, but that's an ACF for which you give up your level 6 feat).


Troll-blooded is excellent at level 1, because the amount of ways to do fire or acid damage at that level are fairly small.
What manner of rudisplorking is this Troll-blooded thing? What book has it been addressed in?

[Karnith]

What manner of rudisplorking is this Troll-blooded thing? What book has it been addressed in?
Troll-blooded is a Greyhawk regional feat from Dragon Magazine #319. It requires Toughness and grants Regeneration 1, overcome by acid and fire damage. It also makes you fatigued when exposed to sunlight.

[Vhaidara]

Dwarf barbarian with Toughness. If pathfinder, make it human and take extra rage. Enjoy having almost 20hp at level 1 while beating in people's skulls. Scale REALLY badly past level 1.

I do this to survive low level PFS. His name is Bobarion.

[Darrin]

Warlock 1, Hengeyokai Sparrow with Surrogate Spellcasting. In sparrow form: fly 50' (average), nekkid AC 24, and a +14 bonus on ranged touch attacks.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Barbarian with Dreadful Wrath, Intimidating Rage, and intimidate as high as you can get it. When you get angry, everyone gets scared, and someone starts running. Plus, it gets even better in a few levels when you get Imperious Command, Frightful Prescence and Never Outnumbered. Then, all anyone can do when you get angry is cower.

Pretty much any Dragonfire Adept with Entangling Exhalation and a bunch of oil flasks for everyone else to throw. For bonus points, Dragonborn Warforged DFA with Entangling Exhalation and Adamantine Body - you're a (almost-)flying dragon robot than breathes fire. Ayup.

[Khedrac]

A Human Wizard 1 with Fell Drain and Metamagic School Focus can instantly kill anything vulnerable to negative levels at level 1. You can either go Evoker (which lets you use Fell Drain Sonic Snap as your kill spell), or Conjurer (which has to use the touch-attack-requiring Fell Drain Acid Splash, but gets much better survivability via Abrupt Jaunt). Either way, you should also trade out Scribe Scroll for Improved Initiative, so you can just kill an enemy at the start of the fight.

What do you do about the wights you create?

[Greenish]

What do you do about the wights you create?They only animate the following night, by which time our intrepid wandering adventurer should be far enough for them to count as someone else's problem.

[Fouredged Sword]

An incarnate can be really tanky at level 1. Asteral Vembrances allows for DR4/magic. This makes them VERY tanky as this is still in the area where 1d6 is considered good damage and lots of enemies deal 1d4. Being able to completely ignore the damage potential of 50% of CR1 or less threats is huge. You can add another soul meld on top of that as well.

Crusader with Stone Power is also really tanky. Adding temp HP each round makes them very tough, and they can heal themselves when needed. The delay damage pool lets them soak tons of damage into those temp HP, even when they don't expect to get hit.

[Vhaidara]

They only animate the following night, by which time our intrepid wandering adventurer should be far enough for them to count as someone else's problem.

Correction: they are xp for later levels.

[WalkingTheShade]

They only animate the following night, by which time our intrepid wandering adventurer should be far enough for them to count as someone else's problem.
Burning the bodies should take care of that, no?

[Seharvepernfan]

Enlarged half-orc barbarian with martial study (steel wind), martial stance (punishing stance) and powerful charge is a damage dealing machine, and can have pretty decent AC and good HP.

[Amphetryon]

Dragonborn Mongrelfolk Dragonfire Adept.

[Greenish]

Enlarged half-orc barbarian with martial study (steel wind), martial stance (punishing stance) and powerful charge is a damage dealing machine, and can have pretty decent AC and good HP.You don't have high enough Initiator level to use martial study or stance.

I'm not sure how the -2 from Rage and -2 from Punishing Stance would add up to "pretty decent AC".

[Fouredged Sword]

Burning the bodies should take care of that, no?

This doesn't actually help. They rise as a wight the next night regardless of the condition of their body. In fact, their body shape doesn't even matter. You can kill a tiny mouse with negative levels and it returns as a medium sized undead in a humanoid shape.

[WalkingTheShade]

Dragonborn Mongrelfolk Dragonfire Adept.
Why? the minimum for a post is ten characters

[Amphetryon]

Why? the minimum for a post is ten characters

CON-based blaster has survivability (see also, CON-based and blasting from range) with a high chance of actually damaging multiple opponents, thanks to the breath weapon. Access to a Least Invocation gives them options for utility out of combat.

[Greenish]

Why?Why would you stack +2 Con template on a +4 Con race when your main offensive ability is based on Con? Hmm, let us ponder…

[WalkingTheShade]

This doesn't actually help. They rise as a wight the next night regardless of the condition of their body. In fact, their body shape doesn't even matter. You can kill a tiny mouse with negative levels and it returns as a medium sized undead in a humanoid shape.

Well... Now I will use this as the premise for a lolwhat adventure. An antagonist group of irresponsible adventurers is going around the country side, leaving behind an epidemic of wights for the PC to take care of.

Why would you stack +2 Con template on a +4 Con race when your main offensive ability is based on Con? Hmm, let us ponder…
Naw, it's ok, Amphetryon explained. There's no need to ponder anymore. It's not like I didn't know the Dragonfire adept class at all before reading about it in this thread... not at all like that.

[Seharvepernfan]

You don't have high enough Initiator level to use martial study or stance.

I'm not sure how the -2 from Rage and -2 from Punishing Stance would add up to "pretty decent AC".

Those were feats, taken via flaws.

breastplate + maybe 2 points from dex = 13, which is not good, but it's not "always get hit" either. Even when charging, you're better off than the average joe.

[Amphetryon]

Those were feats, taken via flaws.

breastplate + maybe 2 points from dex = 13, which is not good, but it's not "always get hit" either. Even when charging, you're better off than the average joe.

There's an ongoing debate about whether the "minimum Initiator Level" for Initiator Feats is one, or zero, because of how it's written; the language does not set the minimum to 1, last I knew.

[Dread_Head]

What else could one do to make a level 1 Druid better?
I always have a hard time selecting feats for Druids, even at higher level (except Natural spell, but that's an ACF for which you give up your level 6 feat).


Go Human and take Ashbound and Greenbound Summoning. Your summons will last 2 rounds and have an insane template applied along with +3 to hit. If this is too much, drop one or both feats and go Spell Focus (Conj) and Augment Summoning. Or take Aberrant Blood in preparation of getting Aberrant Wild Shape later. Or take Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty. Lots of good options for a druid, see eggynacks handbook for more suggestions. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?439991-Being-Everything-Eggynack-s-Comprehensive-Druid-Handbook&goto=newpost)

Another suggestion which requires human or flaws is Passive Way Decisive Strike Monk netting you Combat Expertise and double damage on attacks then take Dodge and Karmic Strike as your feats. This lets you attack once for double damage and then make a return attack at double damage when you are attacked. Take Combat Reflexes with a flaw or at Monk 2 to do this on every attack. Or you can put this on a crusader to make you more survivable, but you'll need flaws to get karmic strike at level 1 and you can't ignore the int 13 prereq of combat expertise.

[Greenish]

Those were feats, taken via flaws.Flaws don't magically allow you to to benefit from feats you couldn't otherwise. Martial Study requires you to qualify for the maneuver you select, and since your IL is half of your non-initiator level (i.e. 0.5 at level 1), and first level maneuvers require IL 1, you can't get squat from Martial Study.


breastplate + maybe 2 points from dex = 13, which is not good, but it's not "always get hit" either. Even when charging, you're better off than the average joe.You can't afford a breastplate at level 1 (unless barbarians get a lot more starting money than I remember), and 13 AC is sad even at level 1. Also you didn't say "not good" (which I would agree with), you said "pretty decent".

[Seharvepernfan]

There's an ongoing debate about whether the "minimum Initiator Level" for Initiator Feats is one, or zero, because of how it's written; the language does not set the minimum to 1, last I knew.

I would think that if it were literally worthless at 1st level, the description would say so.

[Chronos]

Builds that don't suck at first level:

Any druid. You're a wolf, that can be replaced if it dies to an unlucky crit, and which also has a druid companion to provide flanking bonuses and cast the occasional Entangle or Cure.

Warlock, with the Summon Swarm invocation. Every round, you can deal 1d6 damage to up to four targets at once, at range, without needing an attack roll or save, and also throw in a pair of save-or-sucks at the same time. The trick loses its luster within a few levels, though, so you'll want to trade that invocation in for something else sooner or later.

Dragonfire Adept. See above for being able to damage multiple targets at once at range. Downside compared to the warlock, your breath has a save for half, and it's less shapable than a swarm. Upside, you still have some other invocation available for utility, though the DFA invocations offer less utility than the warlock ones. You can (and should) also take Entangling Exhalation, for some pretty good free control (which, at low levels, will also actually increase your average damage).

Incarnate, with any race that gives either bonus essentia or a bonus feat that can be used to get more essentia (or both, with Azurin), and the Expanded Soulmeld Capacity feat. Dissolving Spittle does 3d6 damage at will with a ranged touch attack, which is pretty much insta-kill against anything level appropriate, and you still have one other soulmeld to use for utility or defense as you choose each day.

Crusader, with either the maneuver or stance that gives healing. You can stay alive, which is pretty much a warrior's entire job at this level.

No other martial quite makes the cut, although warblade and barbarian are close. The problem is that a martial needs to stand in the front lines to do their job, but being in the front lines means that you'll die to a single lucky crit. For a level 1 character to not suck, you need to be able to either hold back, or absorb some serious pounding.

[Greenish]

Aristocrat with the starting wealth invested in riding dogs and a tower shield. Not good past the first level, but decent while there. Should be able to double as a face out of combat.

[eggynack]

What else could one do to make a level 1 Druid better?
My preference is the classic dragonborn desert half-orc with half-orc substitution levels. Dragonborn grants +2 constitution, desert half-orc does that also, and the substitution levels give you a d10 for your HD at that level. That means an extra four HP at first level, and you also get to toss toughness on your animal companion for free. It's a whole lot of value, especially when you consider the dragonborn ability you get to pick. The whole setup leaves you with high endurance, ideal for a low level game, and doesn't even leave you weaker as you level. It's like some crazy combined toughness+improved toughness that also boosts your companion, which incidentally pumps fortitude saves and concentration checks as well.

Or you could just go dragonborn anthropomorphic bat. Massive wisdom means extra spell power, and you happen to pick up flight and a constitution boost as well. Just a thoroughly ridiculous setup. My tendency towards the half-orc build is rooted in my love of both the practical and the absurd, but if you're just after raw power then picking up a +6 to wisdom is probably the way to go.


I always have a hard time selecting feats for Druids, even at higher level (except Natural spell, but that's an ACF for which you give up your level 6 feat).

Well, if you're going full optimization, you're probably going to want a summoning feat, one of greenbound summoning or rashemi elemental summoning (presumably the former in this case). You always want some wild shape form adding feat, typically one out of aberration, dragon, exalted, or frozen wild shape (they sort both alphabetically and by power level). Then, after you pick up natural spell, the remaining space, which would now be something like three feats, is relatively free. You can use that space for animal companion feats, one or more out of natural bond, exalted companion, and companion spellbond, or summoning feats, like ashbound, or initiate feats, like gatekeeper initiate, or any of the other less critical feats I have listed in my handbook. By my Druids have one of the most powerful feat sets in the game, and you can do some cool stuff if you allocate that resource properly.

[Grod_The_Giant]

As has been noted, Druid with a riding dog companion and Greenbound Summoning* is probably about as strong as you'll get, but I'd say Duskblade is probably the next strongest non-ToB option or special level 1 only builds. You've got light armor, full bab and weapon proficiencies, spells per day on par with a wizard (with more cantrips as SLAs), and access to some seriously quality spells like Color Spray, Resist Energy, Ray of Enfeeblement and Obscuring Mist- plus the Int and skills to be the party encyclopedia. The class also continues to work at all levels without needing to retrain anything, which is nice.


*The feat gives your summons an insanely strong template- +6 NA and Str, DR 10, tremorsense, and some quality SLAs, including a high-level battlefield control spell.

[Dread_Head]

What else could one do to make a level 1 Druid better?
I always have a hard time selecting feats for Druids, even at higher level (except Natural spell, but that's an ACF for which you give up your level 6 feat).

Also if you are starting at level 1 and aren't planning on getting past level 5 then this variant rises in power quite significantly. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druid) Especially if you go the Anthro Bat route.

[Rubik]

No other martial quite makes the cut, although warblade and barbarian are close. The problem is that a martial needs to stand in the front lines to do their job, but being in the front lines means that you'll die to a single lucky crit. For a level 1 character to not suck, you need to be able to either hold back, or absorb some serious pounding.Psychic warrior can hold his own, especially with the Expansion power, Improved Trip, and a reach weapon. 20' of reach destroys pretty much anything but ranged attackers at level 1, and the bonuses to damage and tripping are pretty much ideal.

No need to take the pounding when you can avoid it altogether.

[TIPOT]

Shape soulmeld (rageclaws) or shape soulmeld (bloodtalons) is extremely good at level 1 but falls off hard later.

Most martial classes, given a reach weapon are pretty fierce being able to one shot most things level appropriate before they get in striking range.

Druids are pretty good by having an animal companion + access to healing.

[Troacctid]

Warlock, with the Summon Swarm invocation. Every round, you can deal 1d6 damage to up to four targets at once, at range, without needing an attack roll or save, and also throw in a pair of save-or-sucks at the same time. The trick loses its luster within a few levels, though, so you'll want to trade that invocation in for something else sooner or later.


You know, I recently tried this in a one-shot, and it was good, but not as good as I expected. Summon Swarm takes a full round to cast, which means the enemies get a full round to attack you and break your concentration (or kill you). It's pretty good, but against, say, kobolds with slings, bandits with crossbows, or charging orcs, it's not foolproof.

[Seruvius]

I would have to recommend a Dragonfire adept with the Entangling Exhalation feat for an awesome level 1 char. The feat makes a mediocre class pretty awesome, specially at low levels in my experience. No save entangle, AoE at level 1, decent HP (d8 hitdie + decent con (for HP and breath weapon DC) +1 HP from your free feat Dragontouched and that's a pretty damn sweet package for a level 1 char.

[Soranar]

Race: Aerenal elf

ACF
Drow Fighter

2 flaws

STATs (assuming 32 pts buy)

STR 10
DEX 18
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 16

feats: Iron Will, Hardened Criminal (Iaijutsu focus), Aerenal Focus: Iaijutsu focus, Quick Draw

With this you get +3 to Iaijutsu focus from Aerenal focus, you can take 10 on it with hardened criminal and you have 4 ranks in it at level 1

so you reliably hit 17, with 16 CHA you get 20 on your Iaijutsu check

that's 3d6 bonus damage vs flatfooted opponents

your initiative check is +6 (4 from DEX, +2 from class features)
assuming you win initiative, you deal 1d4 +3d6+ DEX damage

that should easily one shot anything you come across at that level, if you have a friendly mage to cast grease on your enemies, it's basically game over for them too

[bean illus]

There's a feat in ....Complete Mage? called Stalwart Sorcerer. It gives Sorcerer an effective d8 HD, with even an extra bonus at 1st. Human feat for armor and it's a whole new game at low levels.

[Amphetryon]

I would think that if it were literally worthless at 1st level, the description would say so.

The general counter-argument is "I would think that if it were intended to set to a minimum Initiator Level of 1, the description would say so," particularly given the number of places where such verbiage is explicit in similar features in other subsystems.

I'm not weighing in on which side is 'right,' and will say I play it as you seem to suggest; I just generally acknowledge it's a rules 'grey area,' and list it as a houserule/fix.

[Longcat]

Human Wizard with Precocious Apprentice and the Fiery Burst Reserve feat. Deal 2d6 damage at will in 10'x10' area. The build also scales reasonable into, well, a wizard.

[ILM]

I like a Changeling Warlock with Beguiling Influence for early game party face.

[Greenish]

Aristocrat with the starting wealth invested in riding dogs and a tower shield. Not good past the first level, but decent while there. Should be able to double as a face out of combat.Huh, aristocrat starting wealth barely covers one riding dog.

[TIPOT]

Why bother with riding dogs when you can buy a mule? Those things are disgustingly strong.

[Fouredged Sword]

Why bother with riding dogs when you can buy a mule? Those things are disgustingly strong.

Oxen are beasts with 5HD and a 22 strength. They use the stats for bison.

[Rubik]

Oxen are beasts with 5HD and a 22 strength. They use the stats for bison.Do they cost 8 gp, though?

[Darrin]

Do they cost 8 gp, though?

15 GP (PHB p. 112). They count as a trade good, so if your ox survives whatever you have planned for it, you can trade it back in for full value.

[Rubik]

15 GP (PHB p. 112). They count as a trade good, so if your ox survives whatever you have planned for it, you can trade it back in for full value.Two 3-HD mules or one 5-HD ox for about the same price. Mules get two attacks while the ox gets one, but the one is stronger than the two put together. The ox is definitely both stronger and tougher than a single mule, so I think it would be worth it. Definitely harder to kill. You'd have to retrain its feats to something more useful, though. Power Attack and Cleave?

That Stampede, though...

[Grod_The_Giant]

There's a feat in ....Complete Mage? called Stalwart Sorcerer. It gives Sorcerer an effective d8 HD, with even an extra bonus at 1st. Human feat for armor and it's a whole new game at low levels.
Not sure what you're talking about there... Stalwart Sorcerer is an ACF that trades one of your top level spells known for 2*level hit points and a martial weapon proficiency. You might be thinking of the UA Battle Sorcerer? d8 HD, light armor casting, MWP, medium BAB, one less spell known and spell/day per spell level. It's a passable gish-in-a-can, but not the hotest at low levels.

[Fouredged Sword]

Do they cost 8 gp, though?

They are 24gp in pathfinder. Not sure in 3.5

[Rubik]

So, druid with a riding dog animal companion, a quarterstaff, a sling, leather armor, and two oxen as his 1st level load-out. This beats anything else that isn't pure T.O. on offensive power at level 1, but isn't as defensive as a crusader or an abrupt jaunt conjuror. Still, a wall of animal flesh standing between the druid and anything that wants to hurt him is a pretty good deal. He'd have to spend his actions directing his animal friends every round, however, which is not a bad thing, but it is a tradeoff. He could ride his riding dog while directing the other two. I wonder how the action economy would work with that combination...

[WalkingTheShade]

Oxen are beasts with 5HD and a 22 strength. They use the stats for bison.
Combat oxen, a beast feared in the antique and medieval world as the scourge of every soldiers.
Spartan soldiers used units of them to defeat Persians and graze conquered enemy fields to the death. Alexander the Great himself wouldn't go into battle without his feared Companion oxen-mounted cavalry.
When Hannibal crossed the Alps, he brought a full contingent of those foul beasts with him.
It's only through clever use of the francisque armed infantry and oxen that Charlemagne conquered Europe.
And I'm not even talking about the dark uses oxen were put to during the sengoku jidai.

[Darrin]

That Stampede, though...

A 1st level wizard selling off their spellbook could buy 130 oxen for a 26d12 stampede. 169 average damage, or Ref save DC 18 for 84.5.

[Rubik]

A 1st level wizard selling off their spellbook could buy 130 oxen for a 26d12 stampede.No Handle Animal. Is there an ACF or a feat for that?

Also, the druid above could grab another riding dog companion in exchange for his 1st level feat. What would be the best use of his second feat if he's a strongheart halfling? Shape Soulmeld for a bonus to Handle Animal, perhaps?

[edit] We could name our strongheart halfling druid Vash.

[Fouredged Sword]

Everyone needs to not forget the wild cohort feat. An extra riding dog at 1st level for free is a great use for a feat.

[Rubik]

Everyone needs to not forget the wild cohort feat. An extra riding dog at 1st level for free is a great use for a feat.Might wanna check the post right above yours...

[Darrin]

No Handle Animal. Is there an ACF or a feat for that?


Oddly, no... there's an ACF that trades the familiar for an animal companion, but they don't get the skill to tell it what to do. Feats... not seeing anything except Aereni Focus (elf only), but I don't think it's necessary. If all you care about is 1st level, then the difference between in-class and cross-class is just +2. You'd get a better bonus by taking it cross-class and selecting Skill Focus: Handle Animal instead. A human wizard could take Skill Focus + Animal Affinity... even with only a Cha 16, they can take 10 + 2 + 3 + 3 + 2 = 20.

[WalkingTheShade]

Oddly, no... there's an ACF that trades the familiar for an animal companion, but they don't get the skill to tell it what to do. Feats... not seeing anything except Aereni Focus (elf only), but I don't think it's necessary. If all you care about is 1st level, then the difference between in-class and cross-class is just +2. You'd get a better bonus by taking it cross-class and selecting Skill Focus: Handle Animal instead. A human wizard could take Skill Focus + Animal Affinity... even with only a Cha 16, they can take 10 + 2 + 3 + 3 + 2 = 20.

And they can prepare Read magic in all their spell slots...

[Chronos]

Quoth Troacctid:

You know, I recently tried this in a one-shot, and it was good, but not as good as I expected. Summon Swarm takes a full round to cast,...
Debatable, and I take the other interpretation. On the one hand, the invocation says "as the spell", but on the other hand, invocations all have a casting time of 1 standard action unless specified otherwise. Which of those overrides the other?

Aside: Rubik, I only just noticed that your avatar is invalid: It must have had its stickers removed and replaced in different places. Was that intentional?

[Rubik]

Aside: Rubik, I only just noticed that your avatar is invalid: It must have had its stickers removed and replaced in different places. Was that intentional?Well, I never did have the patience to solve those things correctly.

[Troacctid]

Debatable, and I take the other interpretation. On the one hand, the invocation says "as the spell", but on the other hand, invocations all have a casting time of 1 standard action unless specified otherwise. Which of those overrides the other?

Summon Swarm does, because it's more specific.

[Harrow]

Aristocrat with the starting wealth invested in riding dogs and a tower shield. Not good past the first level, but decent while there. Should be able to double as a face out of combat.

Actually, at first level I don't think riding dogs are all that great. For 1/6 the price, you can get a guard dog. Riding dogs are more powerful, but are they 6 times more powerful?

I know some modules I'd like to start off with 22 guard dogs on

[Gabrosin]

Gonna second, third, and fourth Crusader here. Cleric is also pretty strong early on.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Actually, at first level I don't think riding dogs are all that great. For 1/6 the price, you can get a guard dog. Riding dogs are more powerful, but are they 6 times more powerful?

I know some modules I'd like to start off with 22 guard dogs on

Handling an animal is a move action. And having 22 dogs is both pretty silly in-character and an absolute nightmare to manage at the table.
Riding dogs don't have that problem. You have maybe 2 or 3 at most, and while things can still take longer a properly prepared player won't take that much more time with them.

[Vizzerdrix]

OP said no flaws, but to heck with that.

Fighter1- Improved Toughness
Human-Troll Blooded
1st hit die- Aberrant Dragonmark (Shield is a good choice)
Flaw1- Mark of Madness
Flaw2-Mark of Xoriat

Regeneration-1, DR 5/byeshk, +4 shield ac in a pinch, and lesser confusion 3/Day.