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karchev1211
2015-09-30, 06:52 AM
I am currently playing in an RPG we are playing a campaign as pirates, and another player has decided they did not like me; so they decided their character hired an assassin to kill my character making me go back on a waiting list for the game. I have the means to survive using Hero Points, but I'm not sure I want to or can game with a person like that, or a DM who allows it. The DM refuses to tell me who it is so I'm left trying to decide if I like the game enough to be constantly looking over my shoulder at the other players for their next attempt to assassinate me. could or would you game with a player like that, or a DM who allows it

Delta
2015-09-30, 07:23 AM
Well only you can decide whether you want to run in an "open season PvP game" or not, it's not for everyone but if everyone is fine with it that can be fun.

What concerns me more is this


so they decided their character hired an assassin to kill my character making me go back on a waiting list for the game

Say what now? So if your character dies, you'd have to leave the group and wait for someone else to die before you get back in? That sounds like a very horrible idea especially in a "PvP-friendly" group.

MrNobody
2015-09-30, 07:42 AM
Playing in an open PvP game can be hard, expecially if the DM backs some players more than others. It happened to me once, in an horrible situation when a player was secretly plotting with the DM to make us all fail the quest in the final session. He made it, we lost all we gathered in months of games, he flew away victorious riding a dragon... it wasn't fun.

The same player was an heavy pvper, the stupid kind, with things like "I want that magic weapon you have, give it to me or i kill you/your family/another party member you get well along with".
The solution i found at the time, since pvp was allowed and fostered by the DM itself, was BEATING HIM AS HARD AS I COULD: being a CE, simple minded barbarian-type was pretty easy for me to react to every provocation by smashing my club on his face.
Since he was backed by the DM that gifted him with 9th spells with little-to-no reason (we were around 6th level...yes, it was a terrible, terrible game) i never managed to kill him but still i had the "fun" to turn him into a bleeding mess in a couple of round, every time.

Long story short, if 1) the game allows and fosters PvP and 2) you are ok with it, then you should pay the player that wants to kill you with the same coin. Play along with it: he has hired a killer, pay the same killer twice to kill him instead!

Obviously, if you are not ok with it, you should talk it out and try to fix the situation out of game first that dealing with it inside.

Kelb_Panthera
2015-09-30, 07:44 AM
Are you kidding? There's at least one game based on the very idea. Paranoia has players set at cross purposes from character creation. This, inevitably, leads to PVP. It's all a question of preventing the reason for the PVP from being too overt.

It can be fun and hilarious. Just don't expect to succeed at the adventure most of the time.

karchev1211
2015-09-30, 07:48 AM
This isint a pvp game though this is an adventure path from pathfinder, and there was no warning or chance. Im playing a druid who sleeps in a tree. The dm tells me to roll perception I roll max and im a wisdom based character (the attribute perception is based on ) and he hired an assassin who crits me while I sleep then beats my initative and crits me again to kill me... He is several levels higher then me and I had no chance to escape...

karchev1211
2015-09-30, 07:50 AM
And on top of it we track the assassin back to the hiring board and find nothing... Even with 20s on our rolls in stats we maxed out we found nothing at all leading us to the killer.

Sredni Vashtar
2015-09-30, 07:50 AM
Can you? Of course, but it's only really fun when it's the character trying to kill your character. This sounds like a personal issue regarding the players. That... can be less fun.

MrNobody
2015-09-30, 07:51 AM
Are you kidding? There's at least one game based on the very idea. Paranoia has players set at cross purposes from character creation. This, inevitably, leads to PVP. It's all a question of preventing the reason for the PVP from being too overt.

It can be fun and hilarious. Just don't expect to succeed at the adventure most of the time.

That's why we were playing Dungeons and Dragons and not Paranoia.

A little PvP can be fun, and so can be failing a quest, but not when the DM decides that you all have to die, except for a player that wins, and you can do nothing to prevent it.

rooster707
2015-09-30, 07:54 AM
Find out who they are, and kill them back.

Joe the Rat
2015-09-30, 08:05 AM
Paranoia: The plot is just window dressing. There are entire game systems like this. But the point is you are griefing people that you like, or at least like playing with, for everyone's amusement.

So this is specifically a player doesn't like you, and in response is trying to get your character killed so you get bumped from the table? Here's an important question: Is the GM allowing it, or supporting it? Allowing it means "cool with pvp," and they should also be cool with you making counterploys. If you're game for it, it can be fun to match wits, or turn the tables on them. Supporting it means "cool with that player doing pvp, against you" in which case I think you've got a toxic table.

mephnick
2015-09-30, 08:13 AM
The player is actively trying to prevent you from enjoying a hobby. Take him aside and ask him why he's such a ****. Then ask the DM why he's such a useless hack. It's an adventure path, there's absolutely no reason to PVP.

In the end, gaming with people that don't want you there is never worth it.

ArendK
2015-09-30, 08:34 AM
If the game and group is set for it, it can be a blast. I'd love a good Shadowrun good focused heavy on RP that would try this with me with in character plots against. But for Pathfinder/D&D? Not so much, unless it was a good RP group. I seem to have an uncanny ability to design characters that the other party members grow attached to. I don't particularly mind if one of my favored characters die (most recent of which was my LG Tiefling Samurai who fell trying to protect the party from a pack of Dire Boars after a hunt with a noble went south), and when the PARTY is more upset about the CHARACTER being rather than "ER MY GERHD, we lost our TANK!", I think I have done my job as a player and RP'er.

PvP is fine inside a game; but it all depends on group dynamics and the purpose. If it's spurned out of "I don't like this PLAYER because he did XXXXXXX out of game" or "I wants his LOOTS!" or god forbid "I has to be the most LEET!" I think that is petty and foolish. Nobody likes that, and GM favoritism is a pain in the ass for that (if they favor the offending player) or a god-send (if they are nipping it in the butt or protecting the group from their shenanigans).

Bring on a good Shadowrun group that has genuine motivations, prejudices and bias and not just murderhobo criminals. The players goals, methods, and backgrounds ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DIFFERENT! That's what builds cyberpunk/noir.

Paranoia- Killing the party for laughs is the point. You are supposed to have a good time doing this, because Friend Computer says it is fun, and the Computer couldn't possibly be wrong, could it?

D&D/Pathfinder- It's a group/team game. Build towards RP conflicts, but use a little metagame to keep the team together. Unless you want to turn it into World of Warcraft.

karchev1211
2015-09-30, 08:41 AM
The gm will tell me nothing when I try to explain my aide hes like eeh I know how much was paid and what it bought I dont know if more will be paid later...and he wont tell me who so I can talk with them. If I stay im gonna be looking over my shoulder the whole time, and trying to avoid metagaming

DigoDragon
2015-09-30, 09:02 AM
could or would you game with a player like that, or a DM who allows it

Me personally? No. I've tried a few PvP games and just don't like the style. I'd bow out and look for a teamwork-oriented campaign.

karchev1211
2015-09-30, 09:03 AM
Thanks guys you all have given me perspective that if the hobby becomes more of a stress then a relief bow out and game with other people, and no matter the situation as a gamer you arent alone.

goto124
2015-09-30, 09:09 AM
Why is Shadowrun a better system for PvP than DnD? Does it go beyond system expectations?

Pex
2015-09-30, 09:11 AM
Another player just decides to kill your character. The DM lets it happen and does nothing to prevent it from happening in the future. You're forced out of the game because of this. Only conjecture, but it's possible the playing group doesn't like you personally and this was their way to kick you out. It's a #[email protected]! way to do it.

Presuming it's all legit and nothing personal, I wouldn't want to go back into that game.

karchev1211
2015-09-30, 09:18 AM
The next step is to decide if I'm gonna play in games where the DM of the first game is a player with a different set of players, or just leave him and all the groups he plays with.

Garimeth
2015-09-30, 09:32 AM
The next step is to decide if I'm gonna play in games where the DM of the first game is a player with a different set of players, or just leave him and all the groups he plays with.

Give the group a shot imo. You may find him starkly less annoying when he is not GMing. I can think of several such players.

Leaving that other group is the right call, the fact you came to make a post about it shows its not something you are going to have fun with.

EDIT: Out of curiosity, did you even get to defend against the assassin or did your guy just die in his sleep or something? Either way not something I'd stick around for, but I am curious.

hifidelity2
2015-09-30, 10:00 AM
I am currently playing in an RPG we are playing a campaign as pirates, and another player has decided they did not like me; so they decided their character hired an assassin to kill my character making me go back on a waiting list for the game. I have the means to survive using Hero Points, but I'm not sure I want to or can game with a person like that, or a DM who allows it. The DM refuses to tell me who it is so I'm left trying to decide if I like the game enough to be constantly looking over my shoulder at the other players for their next attempt to assassinate me. could or would you game with a player like that, or a DM who allows it

Could you not

Hire an Assassin to take out his assassin
Hire an Assassin to take him (the PC) out

Sqmach
2015-09-30, 10:39 AM
Could you not

Hire an Assassin to take out his assassin
Hire an Assassin to take him (the PC) out

He doesn't know which PC it is, which is part of the problem. He can't resolve it with the person IC or OOC, so he's left just knowing someone in the group apparently doesn't want him there and is willing to spend resources just to get him out for awhile. Overall, its a pretty crappy move by both the mystery player and the DM. The DM could at least tell him who the player is so they can sort things out, as long as people can keep OOC knowledge seperate from IC knowledge.

Mastikator
2015-09-30, 10:47 AM
The next step is to decide if I'm gonna play in games where the DM of the first game is a player with a different set of players, or just leave him and all the groups he plays with.

Just be upfront that you won't allow any PVP of any kind

Traab
2015-09-30, 10:53 AM
He doesn't know which PC it is, which is part of the problem. He can't resolve it with the person IC or OOC, so he's left just knowing someone in the group apparently doesn't want him there and is willing to spend resources just to get him out for awhile. Overall, its a pretty crappy move by both the mystery player and the DM. The DM could at least tell him who the player is so they can sort things out, as long as people can keep OOC knowledge seperate from IC knowledge.

Could he hire an investigator to find clues in the background? Should be something he could rp through to identifying his enemy in the group. Your other option is to just try your hardest to make it impossible to kill you. Trap the area around you when you sleep, setup decoys, etc etc etc. Unless the dm is really trying to kill you off, this should make it easier to avoid death and maybe even be able to capture the killer and beat him for information.

Anonymouswizard
2015-09-30, 11:00 AM
Are you kidding? There's at least one game based on the very idea. Paranoia has players set at cross purposes from character creation. This, inevitably, leads to PVP. It's all a question of preventing the reason for the PVP from being too overt.

It can be fun and hilarious. Just don't expect to succeed at the adventure most of the time.

Ah, paranoia, how I wish you weren't always vetoed by the D20 fanatic of my group (who will hate what I'm running in almost a year). You look like a great laugh if the GM doesn't try to run it seriously.


This isint a pvp game though this is an adventure path from pathfinder, and there was no warning or chance. Im playing a druid who sleeps in a tree. The dm tells me to roll perception I roll max and im a wisdom based character (the attribute perception is based on ) and he hired an assassin who crits me while I sleep then beats my initative and crits me again to kill me... He is several levels higher then me and I had no chance to escape...

W.T.F? This isn't fair, I allow PVP in my games, but only directly and if you can give THE GROUP a reasonable on character justification. This sort of behind the back thing is just ungentlemanly.


The gm will tell me nothing when I try to explain my aide hes like eeh I know how much was paid and what it bought I dont know if more will be paid later...and he wont tell me who so I can talk with them. If I stay im gonna be looking over my shoulder the whole time, and trying to avoid metagaming

Here's your problem: there is a decent chance that the GM is the one doing this. To put it simply, there is no reason for him to keep the player's identity secret after the fact (unless the money payed was green and papery), and so for him to keep it from you means one of two things: 1) he's an ********, 2) he's an ******** too scared to ask you to leave the group.

karchev1211
2015-09-30, 12:27 PM
Out of curiosity, did you even get to defend against the assassin or did your guy just die in his sleep or something? Either way not something I'd stick around for, but I am curious.

Supposedly got to defend myself, but I rolled max on my perception saw nothing the assassin crit me then beat me on initiative and crit me again and that was all she wrote... so techiquely yes, but not at all really. thanks guys I have told the DM I am done, and will see how he is in other games, but after a point last night he just quit talking to me and wouldn't explain a thing but thanks for the information and other ways to see the issue.

Chen
2015-09-30, 12:41 PM
Here's your problem: there is a decent chance that the GM is the one doing this. To put it simply, there is no reason for him to keep the player's identity secret after the fact (unless the money payed was green and papery), and so for him to keep it from you means one of two things: 1) he's an ********, 2) he's an ******** too scared to ask you to leave the group.

Keeping the player identity secret makes perfect sense if you don't trust people not to metagame. The person in question apparently came back (they mention searching for the assassin) so why would the GM reveal WHO was actually behind this?

CoggieRagabash
2015-09-30, 01:12 PM
Gonna be honest, I would never engage in this sort of pvp stuff unless it was either (A) an established part of the campaign's expectations that we all agreed upon at the get-go, or (B) I knew everyone involved, trusted them well, was generally capable of open communication with them regarding their concerns and had a reasonable expectation that they would enjoy the mystery and danger. D&D is a game and everyone should be having fun, and while a certain level of intra-party conflict is to be expected, assassination is a bit beyond the usual bounds.

I'd be suspicious that the GM is responsible or at least complicit; after the fact there's little reason to hide the responsible party unless metagaming pursuit of revenge is assumed, which is an ugly assumption to make.

So I guess I would be hesitant to play with people who didn't have similar expectations. If you want to give it another shot, be clear that you don't enjoy full on pvp with your fellow players in the next game. If they won't accommodate that, unfortunately it sounds like you'll have to move on.

MrConsideration
2015-09-30, 01:19 PM
If I was DM-ing some kind of PvP I would try to communicate absolute impartiality and go with the rolls - your DM clearly didn't. That smells a lot like collusion to me. I wouldn't go back to that game. They sound like vile people to play with.

If there's some personal reason they don't want to game with you the way they've gone about it is pretty cowardly and infantile.

My advice to you: join a better game table or DM a better one yourself. You don't need to put up with crap like that.

ImNotTrevor
2015-09-30, 01:20 PM
As a GM in several games, let me explain how I would handle this situation:

1. Player approaches me and says he wants to kill player X's character. I ask why. If it's because they don't want said player in the game, then I will obviously have a very different conversation than the one outlined beyond. If they have valid, in-character reasons for Character A to want to kill Character B, then I'll say "Cool. It's up to you to make that happen."

2. Player A wants to hire an assassin to do the job. I say "Ok. This is what it costs to hire assassins of various levels. These Assassins aren't minmaxed in any way, so they'll be pretty standard assassins." Obviously, hiring assassins for a job that are of a significantly higher level is going to be very expensive. If he wants to tank his cash on this, okie dokie. Not my problem.

3. Player X comes to me, apparently upset that another player wants his character dead. I shrug. "Yeah, it's a real bummer. Your character should get to the bottom of who is upset with him/her and see if they can't come to peace with whoever it is. If you feel that it is one of them, then I suggest talking about it to them. Did you piss anyone off recently? As far as I was informed, the character in question has valid reasons to target your character."

4. Player X demands to know who it is. I assess whether or not I trust this player not to metagame, or if this game has a previously established policy of keeping information secret on request. If the answer to the first is yes, and the second is no, then I'll tell them, and remind them that there is no reason for Player A and Player X to have beef in real life. It's just a game, etc. Don't be a turd about it. If any other combo of answers to those first assessments, I say "I think this is a problem best solved in-character, since it is an in-character problem. If it was an out-of-character problem, I would see it differently and we would be having a different kind of conversation. But this is an in-character problem. I see no reason to force your characters to play nice."

5. I see how it plays out. Dice decide everything from that point onward with regard to combat.

One thing to remember about D&D:
IF your character was asleep when the assassin attacked, you SHOULD (unless I'm incredibly mistaken, so correct me if I am) take a -15 or -20 penalty to whatever you roll. So even a MAXED roll is going to be severely penalized compared to a maxed sneak roll. If the Assassin happened to have 3 more points in sneak than you had in perception, then they could easily beat your maxed perception check pretty easily. (Did you have max ranks in perception, too? I didn't see anything about that mentioned. Only your core stat and the roll being apparently maxed. I didn't notice anything about the skill. Again, could be wrong.) Rolling a 20, with a +4 in WIs, that's a 24. With 3 ranks in perception, that's 27.

If someone with a +3 in Dex and +6 in sneak wants to beat that, they need to roll an 18 or better. Very doable. With a +4 in Dex, they need to roll 17+ to beat you. If they then happened to beat your Init, (with a Dex-based build, that's probably not too hard) and then happened to Crit you (since hitting you while you're asleep is basically a Coup De Grace, you actually got thrown a bone if it's 3.5 we're talking about since you'd just make a Fort save to not die from the auto-crit.) then you suffered from bad luck. It happens to everybody.



Long story short, if there are valid reasons for a character to want to kill another character, I will let them do it. There is no reason for me to force the characters to play nice. I don't want idiots and dillholes killing one another for the hell of it, obviously, but if there is a legitimate and valid reason, then I'll allow it. Plain and simple.

I only see one side to this story. That's the side of, "I didn't get to fight back against an assassin in the night, and don't realize that I was probably thrown a bone in a major way several times despite the dice deciding I would not be living through the night"

What we don't see is the potential side of "My character and another one had a fight over a magic weapon and I took it from them. Then later on that character had me killed and I wasn't allowed to harass the other player about it IRL to make him stop."

Not saying that's what happened, but sadly I can't help but feel that there are lots of holes in this story. Did your character really have 0 conflict at all with any other characters?
Did you personally have 0 conflict at all with any of the other players?
Did you refrain from harassing and annoying the other players about this, and try to take it in stride, realizing that it is, in fact, just a game, and that you can easily save that character for later and play them again in another campaign? (It's a name and a personality glued onto stats, man, it's not hard to play the same guy every time.)

Look, doing this stuff when there's a waiting list for playing is semi-dickish, but I'm not thinking that most people would actually wait on a waiting list to play in a tabletop rpg. At the very least, I can imagine few people who would find that fun. Find the dudes on the waiting list and run a game with THEM, instead. Then no one has to be on the list at all and you've solved problems on multiple fronts for multiple people.

Many further solutions for this than just getting pissed off and complaining to a forum about it and flipping the proverbial bird to the rest of the group. Just me, though. I don't know you at all, so I could be entirely wrong. Feel free to ignore anything unhelpful here, and just keep the nuggets of wisdom that are helpful for you in the future. That's up to you to judge, not me.

Traab
2015-09-30, 01:51 PM
Ok yeah, that sounded like the dm was intentionally destroying you to boot you out of the game for some reason. Good choice to just stop playing because its likely if you had tried again, rocks would have fallen a second time. When not even perfect rolls are enough to overcome an opponent, you done been setup.

Eugoraton Feiht
2015-09-30, 01:59 PM
To address the original question, yes it can be done. I've done so in a group myself playing a Lawful Evil Cleric.

Now the real question is should it be done? For my group, we were running a roleplay heavy 3.0 campaign and everyone understood that someone in the party was going to betray someone else. We were warned from the get go of a high probability of dying/being stabbed in the back. We were okay with it and it was a fun group.

Now it seems that you are not running with a group of friends who have known each other for years. In that case, it is a horrible idea. A healthy amount of Paranoia is fun in an rp heavy game where you are trying to guess where it's coming from. If this is a random adventure module with a waiting list, then the person doing so is an *******. I wouldn't allow it as a DM and I'd hunt down the character doing it and murder them.

From what you've said, the assassin has to be much higher than you in level, which means the pc is paying a unbelievable amount of money and is an *******. He should be constantly broke too. If he isn't, he's cheating.

If it's the dm, thats a bitch way of saying you don't want to roleplay with someone and I'd leave. He should at least have the balls to be upfront with you. Anything else is just pathetic.

Sorry you're having a bad group and that they're making the hobby less fun. My recommendation would be find a new group. Preferably one with a DM who doesn't have his head that far up his own ass.

Keltest
2015-09-30, 02:05 PM
My rule of thumb is that PVP is only acceptable if the group is A: made explicitly aware that it can happen and B: all agree that it is something they are OK with.

However even with both of the above, what your DM (and possibly other player) did was unacceptable and you should not game with them as the DM again.

Garimeth
2015-09-30, 02:11 PM
Here's your problem: there is a decent chance that the GM is the one doing this. To put it simply, there is no reason for him to keep the player's identity secret after the fact (unless the money payed was green and papery), and so for him to keep it from you means one of two things: 1) he's an ********, 2) he's an ******** too scared to ask you to leave the group.

This. This guy is not your pal.

Honest Tiefling
2015-09-30, 02:32 PM
PvP is only okay with everyone at the table (not just those involved in the conflict) are either okay or looking forward to it. Your posts make me think this is not the case.

The fact he is keeping the player's identity a secret either means the rest of the group are jerks (a distinct possiblity given how you got killed by a super high level assasin, how did the character get that money and WHY was this done? just...WHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHY? Ahem. Sorry.) or that he's worried you are going to metagame. I think that the metagame ship has sailed, and the distinct lack of trust is not going to make for a fun experience. I'd post the story in the worst player's thread, and then move on and ditch this group. You seem like you'd be better off without them.

Anonymouswizard
2015-09-30, 02:58 PM
Keeping the player identity secret makes perfect sense if you don't trust people not to metagame. The person in question apparently came back (they mention searching for the assassin) so why would the GM reveal WHO was actually behind this?

This part:


making me go back on a waiting list for the game.

Even though he mentions he can use Hero Points to survive it (are these the M&M ones, or a PF mechanic I don't know?), it sounds like it's an attempt to (at least temporarily) boot him from the game. The problem is:

1) The assassin was higher level than the character (with the wording ambiguous enough that this could be anywhere between 3 [tough, but beatable], to 7ish [a real problem if it isn't optimised lower level versus unoptimised higher level]), and so clearly intended by the GM to be successful (although if this was caused by another player giving up most of his wealth).

2) The GM refuses to identify the player, having in character actions with good rolls coming to dead ends, despite the fact that they should turn up at least some sort of clue. This isn't 'I'm not giving you the knowledge OOC because I don't trust you enough not to metagame', this is 'oh, you want to know who the PC that tried to have you killed was? Unfortunately a swarm of flies ate the documents related to this specific hiring, but none of the others'.


And on top of it we track the assassin back to the hiring board and find nothing... Even with 20s on our rolls in stats we maxed out we found nothing at all leading us to the killer.

At a 20 on their rolls they should at least have found the office which runs the hiring board, which could point them towards the PC and make this into a juicy subplot. This is mainly why I think the 'other player' is the GM.

Comparable scenario:

GM: another player is planning to murder your character.

Victim: oh, who is it?

GM: sorry, I don't trust you to metagame, find out in character.

*next session*
GM: okay Victim, after being resurrected you've managed to track the hiring board used.

Victim: alright, I try and see who hired them. *rolls natural 20*

GM: okay, you don't find it out, but the people running the notice board give you the name of the person dealing with it that day.

*a couple of sessions later*

Victim: aha! It was you, Culprit!

Culprit: well yeah, I had in-character reasons for doing it. Watch out for Assassin 2: Electric Boogaloo.

Victim: what? (Assassin attacks and this time Victim fights it off, possibly with help from the rest of the party, because why isn't player number 2 going to try again?)

The difference between the above and what actually happened to the OP was the fact that the notice board acted as a dead end. A party member trying to kill you in secret sounds like a good plot thread, as long as it can be resolved.

goto124
2015-09-30, 07:51 PM
I'm backing up the solution of "leave the group and look for a better one". It doesn't look like your current group wants you playing with them anyway, seeing the lengths they went to.

Hawkstar
2015-09-30, 08:44 PM
This isint a pvp game though this is an adventure path from pathfinder, and there was no warning or chance. Im playing a druid who sleeps in a tree. The dm tells me to roll perception I roll max and im a wisdom based character (the attribute perception is based on ) and he hired an assassin who crits me while I sleep then beats my initative and crits me again to kill me... He is several levels higher then me and I had no chance to escape...How the hell did another player get the opportunity to hire such an assassin?

Kelb_Panthera
2015-09-30, 08:56 PM
While D&D can support PVP just fine, it sounds like you have less of a PVP issue and more of a "I'm gaming with D-bags" kind of a problem.

The others upthread are right. Cut your losses and move on.

Traab
2015-09-30, 09:04 PM
How the hell did another player get the opportunity to hire such an assassin?

With the dms help apparently. They made sure the killer was way too powerful to be stopped even with perfect rolls, and way too difficult to track down, even with perfect rolls. It was clearly a railroad job by the dm and maybe whoever else targeted him.

Arbane
2015-10-01, 12:07 AM
While D&D can support PVP just fine, it sounds like you have less of a PVP issue and more of a "I'm gaming with D-bags" kind of a problem.

Ayup.


Thanks guys you all have given me perspective that if the hobby becomes more of a stress then a relief bow out and game with other people, and no matter the situation as a gamer you arent alone.

I would recommend telling the GM and other players WHY you're leaving. Who knows, it might have a positive effect for the next chump who joins.

Ajmes
2015-10-04, 04:57 AM
I would have told him off, called him a petty childish d-bag, and if it was a game in person, I would have grabbed a handful of his paper materials and ripped them up for being a piece of garbage. Then said something like 'It wasn't my idea, another player whose name I can't reveal to you told me to do this', and left.

Jornophelanthas
2015-10-04, 05:41 AM
I would recommend telling the GM and other players WHY you're leaving. Who knows, it might have a positive effect for the next chump who joins.

This. There is a good chance that most of the players at the table did not even know what was going on.

In an earlier stage, I would have confronted the group with the situation:
"Look, DM told me that one of you is trying to kill my character. I don't like that, because I don't want to get bumped to the waiting list. Does one of you not want to play with me? Just come forward and say so."

If this angers the DM, while all the players are surprised, you know that the "other player" is actually the DM. Regardless, if any of the other people (DM or players) actually admits they want you gone and nobody else stands up for you, you should leave the game.

---

What actually happened was that you told the DM you were not coming back, and he immediately stopped communicating with you. This means that he got what he wanted, and none of the other players will ever find out what was going on. The DM might have told them some story like:
"Yeah, he just said he didn't want to play anymore. He must not be taking our game seriously enough. So I invited the next person on the waiting list, who is really cool."
If you're unlucky, he will have told them something less flattering about you.

ArendK
2015-10-04, 08:43 AM
Why is Shadowrun a better system for PvP than DnD? Does it go beyond system expectations?

Not particularly; it's a system about speed in whatever capacity you can muster (magic, cybernetics, or technology). The selling point is that the lore and concept BREEDS a perfect environment for situations like this IN-GAME. A cyberpunk noir setting that plays on misinformation can be a great in character reason for inter-party backstabs IF THE PARTY IS OKAY WITH IT! Every group is different, and from the OP's posts, it just sounds like the group is full of d-bags. For his situation, I'd consider bringing it up OOC to the group as an honest concern and then leaving if not satisfied with the answer.

Anonymouswizard
2015-10-04, 08:52 AM
I would have told him off, called him a petty childish d-bag, and if it was a game in person, I would have grabbed a handful of his paper materials and ripped them up for being a piece of garbage. Then said something like 'It wasn't my idea, another player whose name I can't reveal to you told me to do this', and left.

Rule number one of in-person interaction: don't be a horrible person. In this case, confronting the group and DM in person would have been better in a 'it seems like there's someone here who doesn't want to play with me but doesn't want to say it in person, if anybody else wants to play another game with me at some point, please contact me through [way]'. Making a scene of it means that it's likely that you won't be invited to other gaming groups because they've heard that you overreact to such things. karchev1211 actually did the correct thing, and in the correct way.


Not particularly; it's a system about speed in whatever capacity you can muster (magic, cybernetics, or technology). The selling point is that the lore and concept BREEDS a perfect environment for situations like this IN-GAME. A cyberpunk noir setting that plays on misinformation can be a great in character reason for inter-party backstabs IF THE PARTY IS OKAY WITH IT! Every group is different, and from the OP's posts, it just sounds like the group is full of d-bags. For his situation, I'd consider bringing it up OOC to the group as an honest concern and then leaving if not satisfied with the answer.

Yeah, this is why Shadowrun can have some goof PvP. It's no Paranoia, but the setting makes it work much more easily than D&D does.

ThinkMinty
2015-10-04, 09:49 AM
Kill the assassin in a session without asking another party member for help. Whoever looks pissed off that you killed the assassin is the one who hired him, then add a pinch of meta-gaming so you can just deep six that mother****er too. Then afterwards act like nothin' happened.

If you can't pull that off, you could always do a theatrical TPK, since it's apparently on the table now.

Milodiah
2015-10-06, 02:27 AM
If you can't pull that off, you could always do a theatrical TPK, since it's apparently on the table now.


Agreed.


If I were you, immediately before I left the game (I'd be leaving the game obviously, this is some bull-****), I'd demand in-character that every single one of them prove to me they didn't hire the assassin. If they don't/can't, try to kill them.

This being D&D/Pathfinder, the character I probably would have made wouldn't have much of a chance soloing another party member, let alone the whole party at once, but I'd do something clever that gave me as much of an edge as possible. And if the GM doesn't provide for me in the same way he obviously did for someone else, I'd know for a fact he was rigging it against me anyway.


The issue here is not that there was PvP, in my opinion. There wasn't PvP. There was obviously a request from one of the players to the GM to remove your character from the game (roleplayed/rationalized as hiring an assassin against you, but still what it was more-or-less in an out-of-character sense), and the GM decided to use excessive force in order to ensure that it happened. That's more along the lines of PvGM, and that's something I just can't tolerate.

ThinkMinty
2015-10-06, 08:01 AM
Agreed.


If I were you, immediately before I left the game (I'd be leaving the game obviously, this is some bull-****), I'd demand in-character that every single one of them prove to me they didn't hire the assassin. If they don't/can't, try to kill them.

This being D&D/Pathfinder, the character I probably would have made wouldn't have much of a chance soloing another party member, let alone the whole party at once, but I'd do something clever that gave me as much of an edge as possible. And if the GM doesn't provide for me in the same way he obviously did for someone else, I'd know for a fact he was rigging it against me anyway.


The issue here is not that there was PvP, in my opinion. There wasn't PvP. There was obviously a request from one of the players to the GM to remove your character from the game (roleplayed/rationalized as hiring an assassin against you, but still what it was more-or-less in an out-of-character sense), and the GM decided to use excessive force in order to ensure that it happened. That's more along the lines of PvGM, and that's something I just can't tolerate.

One of the many reasons I like rollin' Sorcerers; can nova the party if things go horribly horribly wrong.

Drynwyn
2015-10-06, 11:40 AM
This isint a pvp game though this is an adventure path from pathfinder, and there was no warning or chance. Im playing a druid who sleeps in a tree. The dm tells me to roll perception I roll max and im a wisdom based character (the attribute perception is based on ) and he hired an assassin who crits me while I sleep then beats my initative and crits me again to kill me... He is several levels higher then me and I had no chance to escape...

It's been said by others here: Quit the game now. No D&D is better than bad D&D.

That said, in the GENERAL sense, it's possible to play with PvP if the DM and all the players are decent about it. For example, in a recent Ars Magica game, I was playing a witch. (Not in the "female magic user" sense, in the original "trafficks with the powers of hell" sense.) My twin brother was playing an 8-foot tall agent of the Vatican with a huge ****off hammer.

Him discovering the witchcraft, and the subsequent PvP, made an absolutely AMAZING story arc that ended with me placing a suspended killing curse on him.

However, that was fun because a) We had similar levels of power, b) The DM was genuinely unbiased, c) There was a legitimate IN CHARACTER reason for the fight, and d) Preemptive strike was not a guaranteed victory.

If any of these things are not true, then PvP is just bullying.

Templarkommando
2015-10-07, 09:55 PM
First, I think there's an obligatory rule that needs to be stated:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/33/04/ff/3304ffac2b8b15aab2e2d2937d315b88.jpg

The question is how you do it. The best way that I can think of is to make sure that your erstwhile opponent stumbles into a trap of your making immediately before you wipe him out. Try to prepare the battlefield so that no one has a chance to take sides in the battle except for you, him, and any of your allies. Don't let anyone know what you are doing except for the DM. Pass the DM notes and try to talk to him about your plans away from the rest of the group. If you're feeling merciful, allow for a final test to call off the hit, and if he fails that test, terminate him with extreme prejudice. Hit him with one use magic items, and whatever you can think of to penetrate his defences, and then when he's lying on the floor with -4 hitpoints, walk up and coup de grace him.

dps
2015-10-08, 02:33 AM
My rule of thumb is that PVP is only acceptable if the group is A: made explicitly aware that it can happen and B: all agree that it is something they are OK with.


Yeah, there are multiple threads here where the consensus basically comes down to, "It's fine if it's made clear to everyone ahead of time that it is going to be allowed in this campaign", whatever "it" happens to be. Whether or not PvP is allowed is one of the things that definatd is an "it" that needs to be discussed.

That said, even if it was made clear ahead of time that PvP was going to be allowed, as someone else pointed out, this wasn't actually PvP. This was the DM throwing a completely inappropriate CR encounter at a player, or at least allowing another player to do so.