Castle with Dead Magic field defense?

[Seharvepernfan]

Say there was a big fortress somewhere in the world, where a circle of wizards decided to build a mythal-esque artifact that emits a dead-magic field to cover the castle and a certain distance out of it. So, no spells can be cast, all ongoing spells or magic effects cease (if you were invisible, now you're not, etc), golems become inert, yada yada. Besides these obvious benefits, what are the ramifications of an artifact like this? Assume it is too big and heavy for normal monsters to move, and even something colossal and high-str would have to dig down through the fortress to get it, and assume that it can last for as long as the defenders want it to.

[Kelb_Panthera]

It's an option. Seems kinda lazy though. Definitely not something a group of wizards would do at all.

If you must, then you have to consider that everything will go down strictly non-magical. No flight, no teleportation, no healing between fights (barring an obscure alchemical item), no defensive buffs, no magical gear, no nothing.

Your party's wizard will want -nothing- to do with this unless he's an extremely sporting player. The entire point of his class is negated by this scenario.

If I may make a suggestion, lockdown a few, individual rooms in the fortress with sigils of antimagic and let the party run through a few of them for tension but don't shut the casters and everyone's gear down for the whole adventure like that.

What is it that's causing so much trouble that you'd go to such an extreme to fix it?

[Seharvepernfan]

This isn't for a party, this is for a fortress staffed with warriors and what not. Part of the problem with a castle in a D&D world is that there are so many ways to destroy/bypass one, unless you have special wards, so I thought "What happens if you get the ward, to block everything except the tarrasque/big dragons?"

[Crake]

golems become inert

I didn't think golems became inert in a dead magic zone?

[Kelb_Panthera]

This isn't for a party, this is for a fortress staffed with warriors and what not. Part of the problem with a castle in a D&D world is that there are so many ways to destroy/bypass one, unless you have special wards, so I thought "What happens if you get the ward, to block everything except the tarrasque/big dragons?"

Wait. What?

I don't follow.

Is this just a thought exercise? Creating mythals takes at least one epic caster so it's not something you could do as a member of the party.

If it's just a thought exercise there's really not much to say. At any level it would function just like a real world castle. The only difference level makes is whether a martial character can shred defenders by the dozen or not and whether a good door is a barrier that will take minutes, moments, or seconds to breach.

[Seharvepernfan]

I didn't think golems became inert in a dead magic zone?

I'm not sure if there's a difference between anti-magic and dead-magic, but I'm assuming dead-magic means no magic period.


Wait. What?

I don't follow.

Is this just a thought exercise? Creating mythals takes at least one epic caster so it's not something you could do as a member of the party.

I'm toying with the idea for a adventure module I have on the backburner. It's set at around 11th level, maybe a bit higher, and the location is a huge fortress rising from a hillock on some steppe somewhere, with a huge dwarven dungeon underneath. Armies are clashing/about to clash for it, and I wanted the group to have to fight through armies to get inside. At that level, however, a party can just fly and/or invisible their way past, which ruins the idea.

Also, I've given a lot of thought to defensive structures in a D&D world, and part of doing it right is being able to block/deter the normal ways (fly/invisible/etc). So, I thought, since this fortress is special, why not give it an immobile artifact to block magical effects? Who cares who made it, that's not important. The party mage won't have a ton of fun, but well, mages can suck it once in a while.

So there you go.

Treat it like a thought exercise, though, because I'm curious.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Have you given the stronghold builder's guidebook a once over? There's a lot of good fortress building stuff in there, albeit a bit pricy.

Flight can only get you past a curtain wall. Once you're in it's not all that helpful except in a great hall where they don't keep anything important anyway. Towers are shuttered and windows throughout a fortress are too thin for a typical person to fit through. SBG has architectural pieces that can generate bad weather to deter fliers, iirc.

Teleportation's not any better. Unless you know exactly where you want to be, you can only get to the fortress, not into it, providing you even land on-target before greater teleport. Blocking doesn't even require wondrous architecture. There are spells to block important areas off from teleportation effects right in the PHB.

People give these two abilities much more credit than they deserve outside of their basic combat applications.

[Deophaun]

"What happens if you get the ward, to block everything except the tarrasque/big dragons?"

Then the big dragons come and knock it over. Because what the heck are the defenders going to do about it? Nothing, that's what.

And the fantasy equivalent of orbital bombardment still works.

[Jack_Simth]

Say there was a big fortress somewhere in the world, where a circle of wizards decided to build a mythal-esque artifact that emits a dead-magic field to cover the castle and a certain distance out of it. So, no spells can be cast, all ongoing spells or magic effects cease (if you were invisible, now you're not, etc), golems become inert, yada yada. Besides these obvious benefits, what are the ramifications of an artifact like this? Assume it is too big and heavy for normal monsters to move, and even something colossal and high-str would have to dig down through the fortress to get it, and assume that it can last for as long as the defenders want it to.What happens? Some smart alec convinces a few Will o Wisps to go in and kill the defenders in their sleep. Ex invisibility, flight, AC 29, and a +16 Touch Attack that deals energy damage. Or maybe planar binds an army of earth elementals to do the same (walk through the walls, undermine the place). Or uses the Shrink Item / Bag of Holding / Flight / Invisibility trick to go over the place and drop literally tons of boulders to pound the castle into gravel.

There's a lot of ways wizard can defeat that if the wizard knows about it.

Really, though, other than "some big monster that the castle defenders can't do anything about without magic takes the place down", if you want implications about how such things would turn out... just check history.

[ThinkMinty]

Say there was a big fortress somewhere in the world, where a circle of wizards decided to build a mythal-esque artifact that emits a dead-magic field to cover the castle and a certain distance out of it. So, no spells can be cast, all ongoing spells or magic effects cease (if you were invisible, now you're not, etc), golems become inert, yada yada. Besides these obvious benefits, what are the ramifications of an artifact like this? Assume it is too big and heavy for normal monsters to move, and even something colossal and high-str would have to dig down through the fortress to get it, and assume that it can last for as long as the defenders want it to.

Carve a loophole into the artifact's so that anyone who has touched the artifact within one week can cast normally within its area of effect. Then you get the best of both worlds, and can force the players storming it to want to stealth in to get their magic back before attacking from within, or something else idiosyncratic like that.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Call in your jammer and nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. You -did- take landlord at level 9, right?

What... I'm not the only one who uses SBG to make mobile death fortresses, am I?

[ThinkMinty]

Call in your jammer and nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. You -did- take landlord at level 9, right?

What... I'm not the only one who uses SBG to make mobile death fortresses, am I?

...what? Can you explain that, or at least de-abbreviate SBG?

[tyckspoon]

...what? Can you explain that, or at least de-abbreviate SBG?

Stronghold Builder's Guide. Gives rules and prices for all sorts of neat constructions, including emplaced magical elements and fantastic building materials for forts, ships, etc. It also includes the Landlord feat, which gives you a significant amount of GP that can only be spent on a stronghold. You can do some fairly silly things with it if you have a good eye for value. (You can also spend your entire allotment on one room with a weak magical trap if you have a bad eye for value.)

[Curmudgeon]

I'm not sure if there's a difference between anti-magic and dead-magic, but I'm assuming dead-magic means no magic period.

Golems are magically created automatons of great power. Constructing one involves the employment of mighty magic and elemental forces.
Magic is required to create and control Golems, but after creation they're mostly not magical. They would only lose their Supernatural abilities; they wouldn't become inert. The same goes for Warforged.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Stronghold Builder's Guide. Gives rules and prices for all sorts of neat constructions, including emplaced magical elements and fantastic building materials for forts, ships, etc. It also includes the Landlord feat, which gives you a significant amount of GP that can only be spent on a stronghold. You can do some fairly silly things with it if you have a good eye for value. (You can also spend your entire allotment on one room with a weak magical trap if you have a bad eye for value.)

^This^

If you know how to stretch a CP, you can build some wild stuff. Being a skillful type leader that knows how to get your money and followers to work for you can take it even further.

[ThinkMinty]

Stronghold Builder's Guide. Gives rules and prices for all sorts of neat constructions, including emplaced magical elements and fantastic building materials for forts, ships, etc. It also includes the Landlord feat, which gives you a significant amount of GP that can only be spent on a stronghold. You can do some fairly silly things with it if you have a good eye for value. (You can also spend your entire allotment on one room with a weak magical trap if you have a bad eye for value.)

Is Ultimate Campaign the Pathfinder version of it? It's one of the few PF books I have.


Say there was a big fortress somewhere in the world, where a circle of wizards decided to build a mythal-esque artifact that emits a dead-magic field to cover the castle and a certain distance out of it. So, no spells can be cast, all ongoing spells or magic effects cease (if you were invisible, now you're not, etc), golems become inert, yada yada. Besides these obvious benefits, what are the ramifications of an artifact like this? Assume it is too big and heavy for normal monsters to move, and even something colossal and high-str would have to dig down through the fortress to get it, and assume that it can last for as long as the defenders want it to.

Carve a loophole into the artifact's so that anyone who has touched the artifact within one week can cast normally within its area of effect. Then you get the best of both worlds, and can force the players storming it to want to stealth in to get their magic back before attacking from within, or something else idiosyncratic like that.

...is it cool if I store that idea for later?