Paragon Class at 1st level?

[Ralcos]

As stated in an earlier post, I'm building a Swordsage for a game I will be joining, yet I get an idea this morning that I'm curious about.

Since we're starting at 4th level, how viable is taking the three levels of Human Paragon before taking the levels in Swordsage?

Human Paragon 3 / Swordsage 17?

[ComaVision]

Deja vu :smallbiggrin:

[Nifft]

Human Paragon is great in part because it grants +1 spellcasting at levels 2 and 3, but that's only relevant if you have some kind of spellcasting before you take Human Paragon level 2.

One way to mix that with Swordsage is to go Jade Phoenix Mage:

HP 1 / Wizard 1 / HP 2-3 / Swordsage 2 / Jade Phoenix Mage 10

[Ralcos]

Deja vu :smallbiggrin:

I know, right?
The thing is, I just wanted a bit more advice from the experts of the Playground.

[Greenish]

You'd get less skill points and delay your maneuvers (not to mention other class features) for what? A feat and a +2 to one score. Not worth it, really, especially if you're starting at level 1, since maneuvers are at their awesomest in low levels. Unless there's a class skill you desperately want to pick up, of course, but even then there are usually other options.

[Ralcos]

You'd get less skill points and delay your maneuvers (not to mention other class features) for what? A feat and a +2 to one score. Not worth it, really, especially if you're starting at level 1, since maneuvers are at their awesomest in low levels. Unless there's a class skill you desperately want to pick up, of course, but even then there are usually other options.

Maybe instead of Human Paragon, I just have a couple levels of Factotum? Iaijutsu Focus and Use Magic/Psionic Device seems all the rage with builds like this.

Factotum 2/Swordsage 2?

[Fouredged Sword]

I could MAYBE see 3 levels of swashbuckler for int to damage, but that is only if you want to do a crazy Str+Int+Dex damage build.

[Flickerdart]

The spell-progressing paragons are generally weaker, and thus not good to take without a casting class attached. But if you are willing to change race, take a look at some of the other paragon classes - half-orc paragon is actually pretty good.

[Greenish]

Maybe instead of Human Paragon, I just have a couple levels of Factotum? Iaijutsu Focus and Use Magic/Psionic Device seems all the rage with builds like this.

Factotum 2/Swordsage 2?What are you looking to get from multiclassing? A level of factotum and Able Learner will get you all skills as class skills, sure. I might be more tempted by two levels of feat rogue, unless you really want Iaijutsu Focus (or some other sufficiently esoteric skill).

[Ralcos]

What are you looking to get from multiclassing? A level of factotum and Able Learner will get you all skills as class skills, sure. I might be more tempted by two levels of feat rogue, unless you really want Iaijutsu Focus (or some other sufficiently esoteric skill).

With multiclassing, I'm just looking for a little bit extra. Just things to say that I'm not a one-trick pony.

[Flickerdart]

With multiclassing, I'm just looking for a little bit extra. Just things to say that I'm not a one-trick pony.
Compared to swordsages, racial paragons are no-trick ponies. Being able to learn and ready maneuvers from a huge list makes you much more versatile than 3 levels worth of static class features.

If you want to be flexible with a small level investment, I would recommend binder (Tome of Magic), incarnate or totemist (Magic of Incarnum), or a 1-level cleric dip with strategic domain and devotion choices.

[Dread_Head]

Ask your DM if Human Paragon can advance manoeuvres instead of spellcasting? I personally think it should be able to advance any kind of subsystem at those levels or even work like uncanny trickster advancing all class features as humans are supposed to be the most flexible race able to learn anything. If they say yes then Swordsage 1 / Human Paragon 3 / Swordsage X wouldn't be too bad, trading one level of manoeuvre progression for a bonus feat, +2 to a stat and different skills.

[Ralcos]

Ask your DM if Human Paragon can advance manoeuvres instead of spellcasting? I personally think it should be able to advance any kind of subsystem at those levels or even work like uncanny trickster advancing all class features as humans are supposed to be the most flexible race able to learn anything. If they say yes then Swordsage 1 / Human Paragon 3 / Swordsage X wouldn't be too bad, trading one level of manoeuvre progression for a bonus feat, +2 to a stat and different skills.

She said yes. :smile:
Also, I like the idea of Human Paragon getting a bonus to any sort of subsystem progression. Makes them awesome.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

She said yes. :smile:
Also, I like the idea of Human Paragon getting a bonus to any sort of subsystem progression. Makes them awesome.

Glimbur actually made Human Human Paragon substitution levels for one of the Potpourri contests forever ago over in the homebrew section of these very forums. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?156296-Potpourri-Creation-Contest-II-Substitution-Levels)